Sitting of 15 June 1839

CASE OF PRIVILEGE—STOCKDALE v. HANSARD.
Viscount Howickappeared at the bar with a report from the committee appointed to consider the proceedings in the case of "Stockdale v. Hansard."
Report read as follows:—
"The Select Committee appointed to inquire into the proceedings in the action of Stockdale v. Hansard, and who were empowered to report their opinion thereupon from time to time to the House, have proceeded in the consideration of the matter to them referred, and have agreed to the following report:—
"Your committee have applied themselves with all the diligence in their power to the consideration of the important subject referred to them, but the difficulties which attended it, and the delay which necessarily occurred in their obtaining a correct account of the proceedings in the Court of Queen's Bench, have rendered it impossible for them to be as yet prepared to lay a full and complete report before the House. Such a report they trust that they may shortly be enabled to present; but in the mean time it is their duty to submit to the House a practical question, of which the decision cannot be postponed, while it will necessarily have a very material influence upon the future proceedings of the House in this matter.
"In their former report your committee have apprised the House that a writ of inquiry have been issued for the assessment of damages in the case of Stockdale v. Hansard: they have now to stale that, under this writ, damages to the amount of 100 l. have been awarded against Messrs. Hansard, and that in the ordinary course of law execution may be had, and these damages may be levied on Tuesday next.
"Referring to the resolutions of the House of May 30,1837, your committee consider it an imperative duty to report this circumstance to the House, in order that the House may have the opportunity of determining what course it way be advisable to pursue with reference to the contemplated proceedings of the sheriff in execution of the judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench.
"Your committee will proceed to submit to the House the different courses which have occurred to them, as courses one or other of which it might be competent for the House to adopt, and will then state which of them has
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appeared to the majority of your committee least liable to objection.
"1. A writ of error might be sued out, and the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench might thus be brought under the review, in the first instance, of the Exchequer Chamber, and ultimately of the House of Lords.
"2. Mr. Stockdale might be suffered to receive the damages awarded, but a Bill might at the same time be brought in, for the purpose of declaring, for the future, the right of the House to publish its proceedings.
"3. Instead of attempting to pass a declaratory Act, a Bill might be brought in, enabling both Houses of Parliament to publish such papers as they might think necessary.
"4. The House may avail itself of the Constitutional powers it possesses to prevent the execution of the judgment obtained against Messrs, Hansard. If this course should be followed, the sheriffand his subordinate officers would be prohibited by the House from levying the damages which have been awarded, and any failure on their part to yield obedience to this prohibition would be treated as a contempt, and dealt with as such in the ordinary manner.
"5. The House might allow the damages awarded in this case to be paid, but might at the same time declare that it would permit no further actions of the same kind to be brought, and that it would immediately commit for contempt any parties by whom such actions should be commenced or promoted.
"These are the only modes of proceeding which have been suggested to your committee, and which appear to them to be brought under the consideration of the House; and they will now endeavour to state shortly the opinion which they had formed on these different courses.
"1. With respect to the first, the proceeding by writ of error, your committee cannot but apprehend that its adoption might be construed to involve a new and exceedingly dangerous recognition of the principle that the privileges of the House of Commons are subject to the determination of the Courts of Law, and ultimately of the House of Lords. They also conceive that as the result of an appeal must be doubtful, while its failure might greatly increase the difficulty of a subsequent assertion by the House of its right of publishing its proceedings, they would not be justified in recommending to the House to take a step which would expose to such serious hazard its future possession of a power which they believe to be absolutely indispensable for the due discharge of its duties.
"2. The second course which has been suggested is open to the same objections, with this addition, that the House of Lords might object to pass a declaratory art, for the purpose of overruling a unanimous decision of the Court of Queen's Bench, which had not been appealed from in the ordinary manner, and which, had been allowed to be carried into effect

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"3. The passing of an Act to enable the House for the future to publish its proceedings without having them questioned in a court of law would, in the opinion of your committee, be a virtual abandonment of the right which they have no doubt now belongs to this in common with the other House of Parliament, and which ought not, as they conceive, to be surrendered.
"4. Should these objections to the modes of proceeding above described appear to be well founded, the next course to be considered is that of resisting the execution of the judgment obtained against Messrs. Hansard, by committing (if necessary) for contempt the ministerial officers of the court by which this judgment has been pronounced. Your committee are not insensible to the many difficulties which might probably arise in thus adopting measures of an extreme kind, to which for many years the House has not been compelled to resort: but at the same time they have to remark, that it is chiefly by using this power of commitment for contempt against the magisterial officers by whose agency other authorities of the State have invaded the rights claimed by this House, that some of those which are now its most undoubted privileges have in former days been asserted with success; and they are, upon the whole, of opinion, that this would be the course most consistent with ancient parliamentary usage, and with the dignity of the House.
"It is, however, the duty of your committee to state, that although a majority of their number have concurred in this opinion, they are well aware that the course recommended is one not likely to be successful, unless it should meet with very general concurrence and support, and they must not, therefore, conceal the fact that some even of those members of the committee who are most deeply persuaded of the necessity of maintaining the valuable privilege of the House which has been disputed, are yet of opinion that in the present instance it is too late to do so in the manner which has just been recommended. These members of your committee conceive that the House, by directing the Attorney-General to appear in the action and to defend Messrs. Hansard, has placed itself, so far as regards this particular case, in a situation in which it will be better to abide by the result of the trial which has been permitted to take place, and to allow the damages to be paid, determining at the same time, that any future proceedings of the same nature should be arrested in their earliest stage, by committing for a contempt of the House not only the parties by whom similar actions may be brought, but the agents and counsel they may employ.
"Having anxiously considered this important matter, your committee have come to the conclusion, that if the House should be resolved to trust ultimately to the exercise of its own powers for the assertion of the privilege it claims, the objections urged to resisting the
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execution of the judgment of the court in the present action are not of such force that they ought to prevail against those which in that case exist to any further concession; and they are of opinion, that upon a comparison of the difficulties by which either line of conduct must be attended, the advantage will be found to be on the side of deferring to a later period the stand which must at last be made, unless the right of the House is to be surrendered. In giving this as the opinion of the majority of their number, your committee must at the same time state, that they feel it to be a very nice and difficult question which line of conduct should under all the circumstances of the case, be preferred; and they, therefore, submit it with all deference to the determination of the House.
"In conclusion, your committee beg leave to express their regret, that the haste with which this report has been unavoidably prepared, has compelled them to present to the House what they are sensible is a very imperfect view of the important subject of their inquiry; but they trust that the necessity under which they were placed of bringing the course now to be pursued under the immediate consideration of the House, will be deemed a sufficient apology for their not having been as yet enabled to enter upon a fuller and more comprehensive examination of the whole matter referred to them.
"June 15,1839."
Viscount Howickmoved, that the report be printed and taken into consideration on Monday next.
Lord Mahontrusted the report would be printed and circulated without delay. It was important that Members should be furnished with the report at the earliest possible moment, in order to afford time for consideration before the discussion on Monday. There was, however, another document relative to the proceedings of the committee, which he hoped would also be printed and circulated with the report—he alluded to the minutes of the sitting of yesterday. The committee had yesterday discussed the main question, and taken a division upon it, and he should now move that the minutes of the sitting of yesterday be read by the clerk at the table.
Viscount Howicksaid, the minutes were not in such a state of preparation as to allow them to be read by the clerk. They would, however, be in the hands of Members on Monday morning.
Lord Mahonhoped he would be in order in stating a fact, which he thought it was of the utmost importance that Members should be acquainted with before entering on the consideration of the report. The

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principle upon which the report was founded had yesterday been discussed by the committee, and the main question put to the vote, and he was sure the House would agree with him in opinion that before adopting that report it ought to receive the most mature consideration, when in the minority against it would be found the names of the Solicitor-General, Lord J. Russell, and Sir R. Peel. These gentlemen had voted against the report of the majority which had now been presented.
Mr. Alderman Copelandsaid, it might look like presumption on the part of so humble an individual as himself to offer any observations upon this important question; but as in the discussion on Monday he might be prevented from stating his opinions, he could not allow that opportunity to pass without protesting in the most decided terms against one portion of the report. He must strongly protest against that part of the report which suggested, that in the event of the sheriff entering up the judgment—that was, in executing the writ of the Court—he should be committed for contempt. What had the sheriff to do but to obey the orders of the Court and to enforce the law, and in executing the writ he did nothing more than obey the law and perform a duty which he was bound to perform. Lethon. Members ask themselves, what the sheriff had to do with the privileges of the House. The judges of the Court of Queen's Bench had laid down the law, and it was the duty of the sheriff to execute it, by carrying into effect the judgment of the Court. These were his sentiments, and he must protest, therefore, against a suggestion which, if carried into effect, could only be considered as an act of tyranny.
Viscount Howickanxiously deprecated any further discussion at the present moment. He could not but regret the course which had been adopted by the noble Lord opposite, in giving the names of the minority, and not stating at the same time the names of the majority.
Mr. Freshfieldsaid, that they were to see the minutes for the first time on Monday morning, and on Monday afternoon they were to discuss this important subject; and yet but for the information which had been elicited by the noble Lord near him (Lord Mahon) they should have had nothing beyond the papers which had been submitted to guide their deliberations. In his opinion they ought to have all the
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information before them which could possibly be given at the earliest possible period, and surely when the report had been received as a sealed packet, it was no more than reasonable to expect a statement of the whole facts, in order that Members might come prepared for the discussion on Monday.
Mr. Warburtonentirely concurred with the noble Lord, the Secretary at War, that it would be extremely inconvenient to discuss so important a question at that time. The hon. Member who had just sat down had complained of the inconvenience of entering on the discussion of this subject on Monday, on account of the shortness of the time which Members would have for the consideration of the report; but if there was any inconvenience in discussing the subject on Monday, how much greater must be the inconvenience if, without having the information before them which the report conveyed, they should at once proceed to debate the recommendations of the committee. He fully acquiesced in the view taken by the noble Lord, the Secretary at War, relative to the minutes of the proceedings of the committee yesterday; and although the noble Lord opposite had thought proper to state three names of the minority, he should not be tempted to follow his example, and to state the names of the majority.
Report to be printed and adjourned.