Sitting of 20 February 1839

MINUTES.
Petitions presented. By Sir C. B. VERE, from two places in Suffolk, against any system of National Education not connected with the Established Church.—By Mr. BROADLEY, from the West Riding of Yorkshire, against the New Poor-law.—By Colonel SIBTHORP, from Lincoln, for Protection to Irish Protestants.—By Mr.
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BLACKBURN, from Warrington, against any further Grant to Maynooth College.—By Mr. W. MILES, from Bristol, against the Beer Act.—By Viscount DUNGANNON, from Persons in Canada, and from Wellington, for Church Extension in Canada.—By Sir G. HEATHCOTE, from a place in Lincolnshire, against Beer Houses.—By Mr. ELLICE, jun., from a place in Fife, by Mr. HUME, from Maldon, by Mr. THORNELEY, from Wolverhampton, by Mr. HUTT, from Hull, and by General SHARPE, from Dumfries, for the Repeal of the Com-laws.—By Mr. NOEL, from twenty places, by Mr. BRAMSTON, from several places in Essex, by Mr. S. LEFEVRE, from one place, by Lord G. LENNOX, from Chichester, by Mr. GORING, from one place, and by Sir E. KNATCHBULL, from several places in Kent, against any Alteration in the Corn-laws.

RAILWAYS.
Lord Granville Somersetwished to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether it were his intention to move for a Select Committee, or to introduce a measure regulating conveyance by Railways? It was quite necessary before the House proceeded with any Railway Acts that the House should come to some resolution as to the propriety of enacting more stringent measures for rendering the Railway Companies responsible for injuries occasioned by the neglect and carelessness of their servants.
Mr. P. Thomsoncould not positively say what the intentions of Ministers were as to this subject but he was willing to say it was worthy the consideration of the House, and that circumstances had lately been brought to his knowledge, convincing him that it was important, either by the appointment of a Select Committee, or by the introduction of a Government measure, to discuss the propriety of making some regulations, which had formerly been neglected—not through any fault of his, but through the current of public feeling being then against such regulations; he would certainly give the question the best consideration in his power. He thought it would be impossible in the Committees on Private Bills, to introduce the necessary additional regulations; for those Committees were in general occupied by private interests, and the public interests were too much neglected. It was, therefore, essential that the House itself should consider the subject: and on any applications for new Rail-way Bills, or applications for enlarged powers, by the promoters of railway schemes, to effect such alterations as would save the public from the great inconveniences to which they have been subjected by the Railway Companies.
Subject dropped.

PUBLIC CREDIT—DEFICIENCY BILLS.
Mr. Pattisonwished to ask the right hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer an important question. He thought it of the highest importance to the public credit, that a statement made in a paper of that day should be contradicted, if it were not founded on fact. The statement to which he alluded, was to the effect, that no portion of the deficiency bills had been paid off since the 1st of January. He wished to know whether that were correct.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerhad not previously seen the paragraph in question, but in the course of that day he had received a communication from his right hon. Friend, the Comptroller of the Exchequer, calling his attention to the extraordinary statement which had appeared relative to the matter to which the hon. Member had alluded. It was not because he thought such statements should on ordinary occasions be noticed, or refuted, that he replied to the question, because he thought that the more free and unrestricted discussion was out of doors, the better it was for the commumunity at large. But where a statement made had a tendency to affect public credit and where it admitted of an immediate and direct contradiction, he thought it justifiable for any hon. Member to ask the question, and he thought it the duty of a Member of the Government to answer the question. His attention had been called to the subject by his right hon. Friend, the Comptroller of the Exchequer, and the best answer that he could give to the question which had been put, was, to read the letter from his right hon. Friend, in which he stated, that he had always disregarded statements which appeared in the public press respecting the conduct of business in his office, but that if he now deviated from that course, it was, because he considered an article which had appeared in that day's City intelligence, as was one vitally affecting public credit, and that it therefore became necessary for him to declare the statement totally unfounded, and at complete variance with the existing condition of the financial department. His right hon. Friend then referred to a fact, which the House, he was satisfied, would have great pleasure in hearing, that so far was it from being true that no deficiency bills had been paid off since the 1st of January, a larger amount had been paid off in the present
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year, than at the similar period of the previous year. It was not for the mere purpose of contradicting a paragraph of that description that he had made his statement, because such paragraphs were generally written without any knowledge of the official facts, but the House would feel, that in a matter so deeply affecting the public credit, his right hon. Friend, the Comptroller of the Exchequer had only done his duty in enabling him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) to give to the assertion an immediate direct and complete refutation.

EDUCATION.
Mr. Wyserose to move an address to her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to appoint a Board of Commission of Education in England, with the view especially of providing for the wise, equitable, and efficient application of sums granted, or to be granted, for the advancement of education by Parliament; and for the immediate establishment of Schools for the education of teachers in accord with the intention already expressed by the Legislature. The motion which he had given notice of on the first day of the Session was in the same words as that which he had brought under the notice of the House during the last Session, and therefore it would not be his duty to detain the House at any great length. In 1833, and every year since, the House had granted a sum of 20,000 l. for the purpose of education, which had been divided between two bodies, but as they were comparatively private bodies, and as they had no system of inspection, they were totally inadequate to the necessities of the country. By their system they excluded Roman Catholics from their schools, and therefore it was of no use to a large portion of the population most requiring education. Much dissatisfaction also existed with respect to the body through whom the sums came. It was objected, that the Treasury was not the proper body, having so many and such important duties to perform, to have the control of the education of the country. Therefore on this ground last year he brought forward his motion, which was very fully discussed. At that time it was permitted to him to take any course he pleased. Now the course he intended to take was in some degree anticipated by the plan of her Majesty's Ministers. It appeared there was no wish on their part to interfere with the conscientious opinions

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of the people. He, however, much wished that the system of education should be agreeable to the general feelings of the people, beeause, in his opinion, this country should be the last to endeavour to force any system on the people contrary to their inclinations. He would merely say, that a combined and tolerant was the best system, and asked the Government, which would have the distribution of the public money, to support that system. He thought the mode of instruction, in regard to religion, should be selected by the religious ministers of the locality. He took the liberty to enter on subjects of that kind, because imputations had been thrown out against him, or rather his objects had been impugned by the Church party. He should, however, take the liberty of distinctly stating his opinion, and he thought it right, that the Establishment should support the schools wherever it was practicable. Owing to certain circumstances at the commencement of the present year, he gave a notice with the design of submitting to the House the same motion as he had made last Session, but he found by the statement of the noble Lord, that the subject had gained the attention of Ministers, who appeared now to take the matter seriously in hand. He found, that attention had been paid to what he had said, and that there was a willingness to adopt the principle of his resolutions in its fullest extent, and to supply the deficiency of national education. The time would shortly arrive, when, by the estimates coming before the House, it would see to what extent the Government meant to carry its system. Not feeling himself justified, under those circum stances, in calling for a division or a discussion on the subject he would withdraw his motion.
The Speakerobserved, that the course pursued by the hon. Member was most inconvenient, for he had made a speech when there was no question before the House.
Motion withdrawn.