Sitting of 14 July 1834

MINUTES
Petitions presented. By Lords ROBERT MANNERS, EASTNOR, and OSSULSTON, Sir JAMES SCARLETT, Sir ROBERT INGLTS, Sir RALPH LOPEZ, Colonels JOLLIFFE and VERNER, and Messrs. MOSTYN, A. PELHAM, GEORGE HEATHCOTE, and FINCH, from a Number of Places,—for Protection to the Established Church. By Sir EDMUND HAYES, Sir RALPH LOPEZ, Colonel JOLLIFFE, and Mr. A. PELHAM, from several Places,—against the Separation of Church and State.—By Sir R. INGLIS, and Lord EASTNOR, from two Places,—against the Universities' Admission Bill.—By Mr. J. OSWALD, and Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, from several Places,—against the Church-Rates Bill.—By Mr. R. N. SHAWE, from Suffolk; and by Lord ROBERT MANNERS, from Ashby-de-laZouch,—for Relief to the Agricultural Interest.—By Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR, from Kilrush, for Poor-Laws to Ireland.—By Mr. R. OSWALD, from Saltash, against the compulsory Support of Church Establishments; from Stewarttown, for Relief to the Dissenters; from the Hand-Loom Weavers of Newenilus, for a Board of Trade. —By Mr. PLUMPTEE, from Freshford, against compelling Protestant Officers and Soldiers to attend Catholic Ceremonies.—By Mr. MARRYATT, and Mr. P. THOMSON, from the London Dock Company; and from Kingston-upon-Hull, against any Alteration in the Warehousing Act—By Mr. H. HANDLEY, from Gosberton, against compulsory Payments for Supporting a Church Establishment.—By Mr. FORSTER, from London and Birmingham, against the Sale of Beer Act Amendment BilL.—By Mr. T. DUNDAS, from York, against the Friendly Societies Bill.

CHURCH RATES AND LAND-TAX.
Mr. Thomas Duncombepresented a petition from Claremont Chapel, Pentonville, against the Church-rates Bill; also a petition to the same effect from the parishes of St. Andrew, Holborn, and St. George the Martyr. The latter petitioners stated, that they would not object to the principle of the Bill, provided an equalization of the land-tax was first made throughout the country, but without such equalization the Bill would operate most oppressively on the parishes whose affairs were intrusted entirely to their own hands, because the assessments under which the land-tax is collected have been in force ever since the reign of William and Mary, and as they were confirmed by the statute of 38 Geo. 3rd, c. 5, passed in the year 1798, which made the land-tax perpetually subject to redemption, no alteration could be made in them except by Parlia-
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ment. The consequence was, that districts and towns scarcely known in the reign of William and Mary, but by various alterations and improvements since become extremely populous and wealthy, contributed the same towards this tax which they did 150 years ago, and much less than places at present of comparative insignificance. Thus, the sum levied annually on account of land-tax upon the city of Westminster was 63,092 l.; upon the county of Lancaster (including Liverpool, Manchester, Preston, and several other large towns), 20,989 l. 14 s. 6d.; upon the city of London, 123,399 l,; upon the county of Sussex (excepting a few of the Cinque Port towns, but including Brighton, Lewes, Chichester, and several other large towns), 57,560 l.; upon the town and port of Rye, in Sussex, 473 l. 18 s.; upon the town and port of Hastings (now six times as large as Rye) 378 l. 6s.; upon the city of Bath, 433 l. 6s.; upon the town of Winchilsea (in which there are now not more than forty or fifty houses inhabited), 405 l.; upon the parishes of St. Andrew, Holborn, above the bar, and St. George the Martyr, whose rental is about 116,000 l., 9,018 l.; upon the parish of St. Marylebone, whose rental exceeds 720,000 l., 492 l. They further stated, that the necessary result of this anomalous mode of collecting a tax was, that while some places were paying more than 3s. in the pound towards land-tax, others contributed scarcely anything. That the parishes in which the petitioners reside pay 1s. 10 d. in the pound; the parish of St. Paul, Covent-garden, 2s. 4d. in the pound; several parishes in the city of London more than 3s. in the pound; the parish of St. Marylebone a farthing in the pound once in three years. That, contrary to every just principle of taxation, in proportion as places became decayed and less able to bear the necessary burthens of the State, the land-tax became heavier and more oppressive, and in proportion as places became rich and populous, their assessment became lighter and less burthensome. That, at present, the parish of St. Marylebone raised from its inhabitants such a church-rate as might be necessary for the purposes of its several churches; whereas, if the proposed Bill should pass into a law, the petitioners, with the rest of the community, would in effect be required to pay the church-rates of that parish, from the burthen of which

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its inhabitants would be almost wholly relieved, and the decayed parishes of the city of London would, in like manner, be required to exonerate the rich and populous towns of Liverpool, Manchester, and Brighton.
Petition laid on the Table.

THE MINISTRY.
Lord Althorp: Irise, Sir, to move, that the House at its rising shall adjourn to Thursday next. I have to state to the House, that my noble friend, Lord Melbourne, has received the commands of his Majesty to lay before him a plan for forming an Administration. That being the case, I hope the House will feel that the same reasons, which on a former occasion, induced them to make a temporary adjournment, ought also to induce them to consent to my Motion for adjournment to Thursday next, by which time the state of the Administration will be laid before the King.
The House adjourned.

MINUTES.
Petitions presented. By Earls NORTHESK and ELDON, Lords FARNHAM, ROLLS, KENYON, and the Bishop of LONDON, from several Places,—for Protection to the Established Church, and against the Claims of the Dissenters.—By the Duke of GLOUCESTER, and the Earl of HADDINGTON, from several Places,—for Protection to the Church of England and Ireland.

THE MINISTRY.
The Earl of Shaftesbury The Earl of Shaftesbury moved the adjournment of the House.
The Earl of Haddington, before the
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House adjourned, wished to ask the noble Lord opposite, or the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, whether there was, or was not, at this moment, a Government in existence? There very naturally prevailed in their Lordships' minds, and in the minds of the country at large, a strong anxiety to receive some information on this subject. He trusted, therefore, that their Lordships would feel with him that he had not acted prematurely or uncourteously in not allowing any private feeling to prevent him from putting this question? If an Administration had not yet been formed, he wished to know whether any noble lord or any right hon. Gentleman had received his Majesty's commands to form one?
Viscount Melbournesaid, it was almost unnecessary for him to state to their Lordships what must already be known to their Lordships from report—namely, that on the dissolution of the late Government, he was desired by his Majesty to attend him for the purpose of advising and consulting on the formation of a new Administration. As soon as that wish was expressed by his Sovereign, he of course obeyed it; and the respect which he owed to their Lordships would induce him, when the business had assumed a proper shape, to lay the necessary information before their Lordships. He trusted their Lordships would feel, as no declaration had been made on the subject up to the present moment, that the arrangements were not yet in such a state as would justify him in making any communication to the House. He had already stated, that his Majesty had honoured him with his commands to lay before him a plan for the formation of a new Ministry—such a Ministry as should appear to him to be competent to carry on the business of the country efficiently at the present important crisis. He had undertaken the task; but as it was not concluded, their Lordships could not expect him to make any disclosure on the subject. He might, however, be allowed to observe, that he should not discharge the duty which had been confided to him, without securing the co-operation of his noble friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the sanction and approbation of his noble friend who was lately at the head of the Government. He had nothing further to add, except to assure their Lordships that it was impossible for them to be more

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sensible of the incapacity of the individual to whom this difficult and delicate task was intrusted than he was himself. Nothing but the deep feeling which he entertained of gratitude and duty towards his Sovereign, and a knowledge of the extreme difficulty in which both his Sovereign and the country were now placed, could have induced him to act on this occasion.
Their Lordships adjourned.