Sitting of 22 November 1830

MINUTES.
The Administration of Justice Amendment Bill was, on the Motion of Sir J. SCARLETT, read a third time and passed.
Mr. SEVERN brought in a Bill to amend the Stage Coach Regulation Acts.
Leave of absence was given to several Members, on account of the disturbed state of the Districts in which they reside.
Returns ordered. On the Motion of Mr. SPENCS, of all sums of Money received, in each year, during the last four

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years, by each of the Registrars and Deputy Registrars of the High Court of Chancery, and by each of their Clerks, and of the several matters on account of which the same have been received; distinguishing particularly how much of such sums has been received for Decrees and Orders made by the Lord Chancellor which were not of course, and how much for Orders of course, how much for Decrees and Orders made by the Master of the Rolls, which were not of course, and how much for Orders of course, and how much for Decrees and Orders made by the Vice-Chancellor, which were not of course, and how much for Orders of course, how much of such sums has been received for Copies of Decrees and Orders, how much for Minutes of Decrees and Orders respectively, and how much of the money received for Copies of Decrees and Orders has been received from, or on account of, the persons on whose behalf the Decrees or Orders were drawn up; and stating the largest and also the lowest sum of money which has been received in each year by each of the Registrars or Deputy Registrars, or by their respective Clerks, for any one Decree or Order, and for the Copy of any one Decree or Order; and how much of such several sums were applied for the use or benefit of each of the Registrars or Deputy Registrars, and how much for each of their Clerks, and whether any and which of the said sums, and to what amount annually have been received as gifts, or gratuities, or for expedition, and by whom by name the same have been received;" "Of all the sums of Money received in each year during the last four years, for passing and entering Decrees and Orders, and by whom by name, and for whose use and benefit the same have been received and applied:" "Of all sums of Money received in each year during the last four years, by the Master of the Report Office, or by the Clerks or any other persons in the Report Office, and of the several matters in respect of which they have been received; distinguishing particularly how much of such sums has been received for filing Reports and Certificates, how much for Searches, how much for Copies, and how much, if any thing, for gifts or gratuities, or for expedition, and by whom by name, and for whose use and benefit the same have been respectively received."
New Writs were ordered to be issued, on the Motion of Mr. S. RICE, for the County of Northampton, in the room of Lord ALTHORP, who had accepted the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer:—For the County of Cumberland, in the room of Sir J. R. C. GRAHAM, who had accepted the office of First Lord of the Admiralty:—For Cambridge University, in the room of Viscount PALMERSTON, appointed one of his Majesty's principal Secretaries of State: —For Preston, in the room of E. G. STANLEY, Esq. appointed Chief Secretary for Ireland:—For Inverness, in the room of the right hon. C. GRANT, appointed President of the Board of Control:—For Aylesbury, in the room of Lord NUGENT, appointed a Commissioner of the Treasury:—For Tralee, in the room of R. V. SMITH, esq., appointed a Commissioner of the Treasury:—For Portsmouth, in the room of F. BARING, esq., appointed a Commissioner of the Treasury:—For Youghall, in the room of the hon. G. PONSONBY, appointed a Commissioner of the Treasury: —For Dover, in the room of C. P. THOMSON, esq., appointed Vice-President of the Board of Trade: —For Oakhampton, in the room of the hon. W. A. ELMS, appointed First Commissioner of Woods and Forests.
Petitions presented. For the abolition of Negro Slavery, by Sir F. BLAKE, from Berwick-upon-Tweed:—By Mr. DUG-DALK, from Rugby:—By Mr. LITTLETON, six from Staffordshire:—By Lord MAITLAND, from Jedburgh:—By Sir R. PHILLIPS, three from Haverfordwest, and three from the County of Pembroke:—By Lord.J. STUART, two from Meath:—By Mr. KNIGHT, from Warrington:—By lord STANLEY, from Oldham, and other places, in Lancashire:—By Mr. SANDFORD, from Wilverton:—By Sir W. INGILBY, from Gainsborough:—By Mr. PATTEN, from Garstang:—By Mr. BELL, from Wall's End, and other places in Northumberland:—By Mr. O'HARA, from a parish in Galway:— By Lord MORPETH, from Bradford, and several other places in Yorkshire:—By Mr. C. W. WYNN, from a place in Wales:—By Mr. PRINGLE, from. the County of Selkirk:—By Sir J. SCARLETT, from Mal-
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ton, and from New Matton, Yorkshire:—By Lord WM. RUSSELL, from Gloucestershire:—By Lord BELGRAVE, from Chester and Stockport:—By Mr. PONSONBY, from Wimborne Minster:— By Mr. WILKS, several from Dissenting Congregations:—By Sir M. TV. RIDLEY, from Ncwcastle-upon-Tyne:—By Sir R. PRICE, from Brom-yard:—By Mr. GISBORNE, from Chapel-le-Frith:—By Mr. EVANS, from the Methodist Chapel of St. John's, Bedford-row; and two from Dissenting Chapels in Derby: —By Sir R. PEEL, four from Mesham and other places in Derbyshire. By Lord MORPETH, from a Parish in Galway, praying that the Catholic Inhabitants of the Town of Galway might be placed on the same footing with regard to the Elective Franchise as their Protestant fellow townsmen:—By Mr. C. W. WYNN, a similar Petition, from the Parish of St. Nicholas, in the Town of Galway. By Sir W. INGILBY, from the Inhabitants resident in the neighbourhood of Horncastle, praying for a repeal of the Assessed Taxes. For a Repeal of the Union, by Mr. O'CONNELL, from the journeymen Butchers of Dublin; and from the Parishes of Ardcath, (county Meath), and Kilross, (county Sligo):—By Mr. WYSE, from Tipperary. By Mr. DUGDALE, from the Chamber of Commerce at Birmingham, claiming Compensation for Loss of Property at Copenhagen in 1807. Against the Duty on Sea-borne Coals, by Lord F. OSBORNE, from Wisbeach and the Isle of Ely:—By Mr. WYSE, from St. Nicholas, Dublin. By Mr. HOBHOUSE, from the Inhabitants of South Shields, complaining of the abuses in the Church Establishment, and praying for a Reform of them. By the same hon. Member, from the Inhabitant Householders of the Parish of St. Clement Danes, complaining of the expense of the New Police; also praying for a repeal of the House and Window Tax.

Dr. PHILLPOTTS.
Mr. Spring Ricemoved that a New Writ be issued for the election of a Member for the County of Cumberland, in the room of Sir James Graham, who had accepted the Office of First Lord Commissioner of the Admiralty.
Mr. Phillpotts, on the question being put, said, that a motion respecting the living of Stanhope had been put upon the books by the hon. Member who had now vacated his seat, and as that Motion could not now come on, for a short time at least, and, in the mean time, the right rev. Prelate referred to in that Motion, was subjected to the effect of those mistakes that had been circulated respecting him, he (Mr. Phillpotts) trusted that the House would indulge, him while he made a short statement of the real circumstances of the case: —The Petition from the inhabitants of Stanhope to his Majesty, praying that the Rectory of that Parish might not be holden in commendam with the See of Exeter, contained three allegations—and only three of any moment. They were as follows:— 1st. That "the population of which the Rector has the spiritual care, consists of 12,000 inhabitants."—2nd. That "he delegates the spiritual care of these 12,000 souls to a hireling."—3rd. That "the parish pays him a tithe of 4,000 l. a-year, and therefore may claim the advantages of a resident Rector." Every one of these al-

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legations was substantially untrue. First, it was alleged that the population consisted of 12,000; whereas, at the last census, under the most extended description which could be given to the district, the numbers were no more than 7,341. But of these 7,341, the far greater part, no less than 4,994, were not placed under the spiritual care of the Rector. They belonged to an ancient Chapelry, locally situate indeed within the limits of the parish of Stanhope, but placed from the earliest times under a distinct minister, with a distinct endowment; and for many years past an entirely independent benefice. Within that Chapelry a second independent benefice had recently been erected. Over the incumbents of these two benefices, which, were indeed, in his patronage, he had no control whatever. In short, instead of 12,000 souls, as was asserted in the petition, 2,341 only were under the spiritual care of the Rector of Stanhope. The second allegation of the petition was, that the Rector "delegates the spiritual care of 12,000 inhabitants to a hireling." It had just been shown that the care of 2,341 only could be delegated by him at all. It was delegated, during the time of his necessary absence, to two resident Curates, both of whom were men of education and high character; one of them a man of independent fortune, who had resigned a small living of which he was incumbent, in order to become Curate at Stanhope. These Curates were not dependents; for when they were licensed, as they were bound to be, they were irremoveable, except for some fault of which the Bishop was the judge; and from his sentence they had an appeal to the Metropolitan. In short, therefore, instead of "the spiritual care of 12,000 inhabitants being delegated to one hireling," as was asserted in the petition, the truth was, that 2,347 are placed, during the absence of the Rector, under the charge of two licensed and responsible Curates. The third allegation was, that "the parish pays to the Rector a tithe of 4,000 l. per annum, and therefore has a right to the advantages of a resident Rector;" whereas, in truth, the whole amount of what was paid to him by the parishioners was something between 500 l. and 600 l. per annum, hardly a shilling in the pound on the rental. The great bulk of the emoluments of the living arose from a payment not made by any inhabitants of the parish of Stanhope, nor by persons who could in any sense be called parishioners
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It was, in effect, an ancient donation from the See of Durham, made long before the restraining Statutes prohibited such an alienation of its funds. That donation conferred on the Rector of Stanhope a portion, nominally a tenth, of the ore raised from the lead mines of the See situate within the parish, which portion, amounting in value at present to about 3,000 l. per annum, was paid by the Lessees of the Bishop's mines, who lived at a great distance from Stanhope. There were other considerable mines within the parish, especially those of the chairman of the meeting at which the petition was voted, but neither he nor any other proprietor, except the Bishop, paid anything whatever to the Rector on account of his mines. That payment, therefore, being the bulk of the income of the living of Stanhope, was taken from the revenues of the See of Durham; and that opulent See, so often as the Rectory of Stanhope was holden in commendam. contributes to supply the defective endowment of some poorer Bishoprick; an appropriation so fitting, that this Rectory has repeatedly been made the subject of a commendam. The three Rectors in succession who immediately preceded the last incumbent, held that living with their respective Bishopricks. 1st, Bishop Butler, the author of the Analogy—a man not more distinguished by his wonderful talents than by his pious and conscientious discharge of all his duties—with the See of Bristol. 2nd, Bishop Keene, with the See of Chester. 3rd, Bishop Thurlow, with the See of Lincoln. The See of Exeter, in consequence of the spoliation of its revenues, in the reigns of Edward 6th and Queen Elizabeth, was notoriously too poor for the maintenance of its Bishop. It had been the invariable practice to allow those who were raised to it to retain some or all of their former preferments. Since the commencement of the present century, there had been three instances of Bishops of this See holding livings; one of them. Bishop Courtenay, was Rector of the rich and populous parish of St. George's Hanoversquare, containing 43,936 inhabitants (though of this instance it was freely admitted, that the parish, being situate in London, might be superintended by the Bishop, during the months in which he attended in Parliament). 2nd, Bishop Pelham held a parish in Sussex of 1,907 inhabitants. 3rd, The late Bishop held a parish in Yorkshire, containing 841 inhabitants,

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the income of which, being small, was found not sufficient to make the revenues of the See of Exeter adequate to the demands upon him, though he was a single man. It must be observed, that when a poor Bishoprick was to be sustained by a commendam, the question, what that commendam should be, must be decided, generally, by the nature of the preferment previously held by the person nominated to the Bishoprick. In the present instance, besides this general reason, there were special circumstances of a very peculiar kind. When the present Rector of Stanhope succeeded to the living, he built a house upon it, at the requisition of the late Bishop of Durham, the patron of the living, and on a plan approved and settled by him. The charge of building that house and the premises annexed to it, together with a house, which, of his own accord, and without being required by the Bishop, he built for the residence of his Curates, has amounted to 12,000 l.; which charge, equivalent to 1,000 l. per annum, was not laid permanently on the living, but attaches solely to himself, and, of course would continue so to attach, even if he should cease to be Rector. In consequence, when his Majesty's gracious intention of raising him to the bench of Bishops was announced to him, four months ago, not having solicited, nor taken any step, direct or indirect, to obtain this or any other Bishoprick, he immediately felt it his duty to state the impossibility of his availing himself of his Majesty's gracious purpose, unless, like his predecessors, he should be permitted to retain his living in commendam, there being no other preferment vacant at the disposal of the Crown approaching to an equivalent for the sacrifice. It was after this communication that he was informed by his Majesty's Minister, that orders were given for preparing the proper instruments to enable him to retain the living; he, in consequence, no longer scrupled to accept the offered promotion. He trusted that this statement would be thought satisfactory, to the hon. Baronet and the country and that the House would hear no more upon the subject. He was quite sure that the hon. Baronet had no notion when he gave notice of the motion, of what were the real circumstances of the case.
Sir H. Hardingesaid, that as the circumstances attendant upon the promotion of Dr. Phillpotts were generally under-
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stood, he felt it necessary to say a few words upon the subject. He had the authority of the Duke of Wellington for stating, that he (the Duke of Wellington) was in communication with Dr. Phillpotts upon the subject of the Catholic Relief Bill, and that Dr. Phillpotts, instead of being, as was generally supposed, an approver of that measure, had been, in fact, an opponent of the measure, up to the time of the passing of it. He could further state, on the authority of the Archbishop of Canterbury, that it was the intention of Lord Liverpool to raise Dr. Phillpotts to the Episcopal Bench. The House should also, perhaps, be informed, that the Duke of Wellington made the usual communications to the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London, and that the noble Duke received the assent of those right reverend Prelates to the propriety of the appointment of Dr. Phillpotts to the See of Exeter. The right reverend Prelates had, indeed, said, that the appointment might be unpopular in the Church; but, as the noble Duke knew that the grounds on which Dr. Phillpotts was unpopular were altogether mistaken and erroneous, the noble Duke saw, that this could be no objection to the appointment. Let him observe that Dr. Phillpotts had fourteen children to provide for, and that he was compelled to lay aside a considerable portion of his income as a provision for his family, in the event of any accident happening to him. He did not appeal ad misericordiam in behalf of Dr. Phillpotts. They ought to recollect that Dr. Phillpotts had laid out 12,000 l. on the living, and that he had all along been promised that he should hold the living in commendam with the See of Exeter. He had thought it his duty to state this to the House, in addition to the explanation which had been given by the hon. Member opposite, of the misrepresentations which had gone abroad on this subject.

THE LATE AND THE NEW MINISTRY.
Mr. O'Connell, seized the same opportunity to express his hope that the office of Treasurer for Ireland, a sinecure, would be abolished. This was the more necessary, as the country was paying 16,000 l. a-year as pensions to retired or displaced Lord Chancellors, and might soon have an additional 8,000 l. to pay.
Mr. J. Woodwould take that opportunity to say, that though no individual

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could differ more than he did upon many public questions with the members of his Majesty's late Administration, he regretted, upon other grounds, that some of them had been obliged to quit office. Though no ministry ever came into power in times of greater difficulty than those which marked the accession of the present Ministry, he rejoiced exceedingly that the principles which they professed had triumphed and he did not sit there to oppose them, [the hon. Member occupied his usual seat on the Opposition Benches,] but he sat there, because it was his opinion that, in the present corrupt state of the Representation it was the duty of every independent Member of Parliament to exercise a vigilance, almost amounting to a suspicion, towards any Administration. Though he differed upon many general public grounds from the right hon. Gentleman, the late Secretary for the Home Department, he conceived that the country was indebted to him for many useful reforms; and he regretted much that that right hon. Gentleman had felt it his duty to retire from office. He was sorry that the right hon. Gentleman had not become convinced of the necessity of reform; but, at the same time, he trusted, though out of office, that the country would feel grateful to the right hon. Baronet for what he had effected. He also regretted the retirement of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland, than whom no one could be found better calculated for the discharge of the public duties which had devolved upon him; and he likewise regretted the retirement of the noble Lord who had presided over the Woods and Forests, the duties of which office would never be discharged in a more vigilant excellent, and honourable manner. While he said all this, he was far from wishing to be understood as giving his praise or assent to the general public principles which had rendered the retirement of the late Ministers necessary, in order to satisfy the country. He repeated, that he thought these were times of great difficulty in which the new Ministry had come into power; but never was a more glorious opportunity presented to any Ministry than was offered to them, and never did the country place more confidence in a Ministry who came into office upon the sole foundation of reform and retrenchment. The new Ministers were pledged to reform and retrenchment, and
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to the principle of non-interference with foreign Powers, and if they but did their duty, they might be sure that the country would support them. If that House should not support them in carrying into effect those measures to which they were pledged, then let them dissolve Parliament, and make their appeal to the country. Constituted as that House was, the Treasury could always return from twenty to thirty Members, and if the new Ministers should be driven to a dissolution, they could at once command that number of supporters from the Government boroughs, and he would assure them that all popular places would send Representatives to that House to support them.
Sir Joseph Yorke(who spoke from his usual place upon the Ministerial benches) said, he was also anxious to make a declaration of his sentiments upon this occasion, as well as the hon. member for Preston. If the new Ministers would conduct themselves properly—if they would redeem the pledges which they had given—and if, beginning at the right end, they would effect the retrenchment and the Reform which they promised, they should have his support. He hoped, among other things, that the new Ministry would again bring forward the question for the abolition of the Lord Lieutenancy of Ireland, which ought to be done away. The greatest mistake of all had been the declaration against Reform. Had the franchises of a few of the corrupt boroughs been given to the large towns, even by way of a sop to Cerberus, the Ministers might have weathered the storm, and he for one regretted that they had not done so.
Mr. Pringleexpressed his dissent from the gallant Admiral's opinion as to the office of Lord Lieutenant for Ireland.
Writ ordered.

MARY-LE-BOXE SELECT VESTRY.
Mr. Humesaid, he held in his hand a Petition from a Parish which now contained 130,000 inhabitants. He alluded to the parish of Mary-le-bone, and the petitioners prayed for a law to enable them to remove the Select Vestry, which now concealed from the parishioners the nature of their expenditure, and which had been made to amount to so large a sum as greatly to distress the parish. When the parishioners had come before the Magistrates to appeal against the conduct of the Vestry, they found many of the Officers of the Vestry sitting on the bench

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with the Magistrates, and they complained against the proceeding as altogether unfair. The petitioners prayed that the Select Vestry should be abolished, and that every individual paying a direct tax should have a vote in the election of Vestrymen. For his part he hoped that the time had now come for doing away the Select Vestry system altogether.
Mr. Wilksthought, that the parishioners had an advantage in preliminary appeals, and might afterwards appeal to the Sessions, while other parishes could only appeal to the general Sessions.
The Petition ordered to be printed.

REFORM OF PARLIAMENT.
Mr. Denmanrose to present a Petition from the Town of Nottingham, praying for a thorough Reform of Parliament. The petition was signed by 8,000 persons, a number which constituted more than half of the adult male population of the place. The petitioners prayed that the subject of Reform might be taken immediately into the consideration of the House, and they expressed themselves favourable to the vote by Ballot. They were convinced that the mere extension of the franchise to a few great towns would be a Reform of very little value. With respect to the vote by ballot, he thought the subject required the fullest consideration, since so very large a portion of the country was favourable to that system. In his private opinion, he was by no means convinced of its propriety by any arguments he had as yet heard, though he must confess himself quite open to conviction upon the subject.
Sir R. Fergusonsupported the petition, and he hoped that the time was arrived when the prayers of the people would be heard in that House, and he trusted that before many weeks the Cabinet would bring in some measures for Reform. As to the vote by ballot, he had been rather opposed to it, but the manner in which the late elections had been conducted, had convented him to take a favourable view of that plan. At any rate it seemed now to be desired by the people, and their wishes ought to be attended to.
Mr. O'Connellbelieved, that the people of Ireland generally, and more especially in the north, and in Armagh, were unanimously in favour of voting by Ballot.

SUSSEX SPECIAL JURY BILL.
Mr. Curteismoved the third reading of the Sussex Special Jury Bill.
Mr. Campbellsaid, that he continued of opinion, that the measure was of an injurious character, and that it would tend to prevent a fair and impartial administration of justice. The Bill proceeded altogether upon a false assumption of the law with respect to where the Assizes were held, the places not being permanently fixed by law, but changeable at the pleasure of the Crown. He did not know what could be done in cases of remanets, if the Bill were to pass. In this respect the Bill was, in fact, opposed to what it pretended to accomplish; for as the Assizes were held alternately in the eastern and western parts of the county, and as the remanets from one Assize were tried at the next, the Special Jurors who had been summoned in such causes in the first instance from one division of the county, would have to attend the trial in the other. He thought the general system ought not to be broken in upon by any such local Bills.
Mr. O'Connellthought, that as the learned Member's objections were technical, they ought to have been stated in the Committee. The cases of remanets were provided for in the Bill.
Mr. Curteishad no wish whatever to exclude petty Jurymen from any advantages to be given to especial Jurymen under the Bill. It should be remembered that the county of Sussex was 100 miles long, and only thirty broad, and it was a great hardship to call upon Jurymen to travel such a vast distance. The Bill had been brought in with the approbation and at the desire of a very considerable body of the freeholders of the county. The districts for selecting Juries would be fifty miles long, by thirty broad, and it was not likely that Juries could be packed. He had seen an observation in another place than that House, that Special Jurymen were paid for their trouble, and consequently that it was not necessary to consult their convenience so much as that of petty Jurors; but the payment was only one guinea, and which was unworthy of consideration with respect to the distance they had to travel. If' the districts into which the Bill would divide the county were too small for the fair selection of Juries, what must be the case in Rutlandshire, Huntingdon, and Hertfordshire? and yet no complaints of partiality in the

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selection of Juries were made in those small counties. There was a special clause in the Bill, providing for remanets.
Sir R. Peelthought the House under great obligations to the hon. member for Stafford (Mr. Campbell) for his observations upon the Bill, which certainly formed a precedent for circumscribing the districts from which Juries were selected, and therefore the Bill trenched upon the principles of the Jury Act. Practically speaking, Sussex was divided into two parts—the eastern and western, and they were separated more than parts of counties generally were. Upon the whole, he thought the local convenience of the county would be very much consulted by the Act, and he, for one, should not be disposed to offer it any opposition.
Lord George Cavendishwished for a postponement of the measure, to facilitate the arrangement of its details.
Sir James Scarlettdid not wish to obstruct the Bill, if the gentlemen of the county, who must be the best judges of the matter, were favourable to it; but the question was, whether the distance from which Special Jurors must be summoned was such as to render it worth while to pass a law on the subject.
Mr. Denmanthought the Bill calculated to afford a reasonable degree of accommodation to the county, and anticipated no greater inconvenience in Sussex, when thus divided, than in other large divisions of counties, provided a sufficient fund of Special Jurors could be found within it. He thought, however, that the part of the Bill relating to remanets required further consideration, and therefore he hoped that the Bill would be postponed.
Mr. Curteispostponed the third reading-till the 1st of February.

REDUCTION OF OFFICIAL SALARIES— NEW MINISTRY.
Mr. Humesaid, he had given notice of a Motion for that evening, to the effect, that it was the opinion of the House that no person appointed to any Office after this time, should receive any Salary or Allowances exceeding those paid for the same Office in 1796, and he felt sure that the House would have gone along with him in the propriety of the Resolution, if it had not been for some circumstances that recently occurred. Now, however, lest it should appear as if such a motion involved a want of
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confidence in the new Ministers, and as he felt no disposition to refuse his confidence to them at present, he should postpone the Resolution till he saw the House filled with the members of the new Administration, for whom writs had been moved. He would then bring- forward his motion, and take the sense of the House upon it, should it be opposed. Meanwhile he took this opportunity to say, that he viewed the recent change with feelings of great satisfaction, because he thought it offered to the country hopes of a radical change in public measures. He understood that Ministers stood pledged to Reform, and as a friend of Reform he was anxious to see them in their places. He also understood that they were pledged to carry into effect measures of economy and retrenchment—principles which he had long advocated. He hoped that Ministers would carry forward such measures in a manner more effectual than their predecessors; if not, they should find him their steady opponent, as he had been the opponent of the last Administration. Under all the circumstances of the case, he thought he should not compromise the duty which he owed to his constituents and the country, by giving the new Administration a fair trial. He had heard with satisfaction that Ministers were disposed to act upon the principles of Free Trade —he hoped and trusted that they would do so, and also adopt measures of liberal policy generally, calculated to satisfy the country. He trusted that they would adopt other measures of Reform, to which, however, it was not now necessary to allude. He hoped that Ministers would imitate their predecessors (whom he must compliment on this point) in upholding public credit. I f a doubt were cast for a single moment upon its being maintained, the results must be most disastrous—Ministers owed it, therefore, not only to the safety of this country, but also to the well-being of Europe, to uphold public credit. On the whole, looking to the principles of the men who had now taken office, he thought them entitled to support; and he should withdraw his motion, without fixing any day for bringing it before the House. He had also upon the paper a notice of motion respecting the names, offices, and salaries of the servants of the Ordnance freemen of Queenborough, but he found that the case was already before a committee, and further, that it was thought

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his Motion might interfere with the proceedings of the Committee. He was the last person to wish to interfere with the justice of that or any other case, and lest he should be thought to compromise the rights of parties before the Committee, he begged to postpone the Motion. There was a question which he confessed he felt rather unwilling to bring before the House—it was involved in the petition of an individual with respect to the Armagh election, praying for an extension of the time allowed for entering into recognizances. The petitioner asked for thirty days, because the Master in Chancery had fixed an irregular day for entering into recognizance; but on inquiry from the Master, he (Mr. Hume) learned, that the day had been fixed at the petitioner's own request. Nevertheless, the petitioner now demanded indulgence on the ground of an irregularity created at his own instance, Under such circumstances, although he \ did not like to refuse presenting a petition which was properly worded, he could not give his support to its prayer, but would leave it to the House to deal with it as might be thought proper.
The Speakersaid, that the original petition to which the hon. Member referred, was reported by him to-day to the effect that no recognizance had been entered into; and on that report being made, the order for the consideration of the petition was discharged. With regard to the merits of the case, he believed them to be precisely as the hon. Member had stated. In the first instance, a day was fixed for entering into recognizances on the petitioner's own suggestion; and now further time was asked for, because the Master, acting on that suggestion, had fixed an improper day. It was for the House to say whether, under such circumstances, it felt disposed to receive this petition, or disturb the decision to which it had come upon the subject [cries of "Withdraw."]
Mr. Humesaid, he should yield to the feeling of the House and withdraw the petition.

PUBLIC DISTURBANCES—BALLOTS FOR ELECTION COMMITTEES.
Colonel Cradockhaving moved for leave of absence for Mr. Dundas, who was ordered to join his regiment in consequence of the public disturbances,
Colonel Daviessaid, this was the second
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or third leave of absence that had been moved for in consequence of the disturbances which unfortunately existed in various parts of the country. He put it to the good sense of the House to say, whether, under all the circumstances of the case, it might not be expedient to defer a great number of the Election Committees till after Christmas. [Cries of "No."] The consequence of the absence of so many Members in the disturbed counties must be, that they should not be able to make a House upon ballot nights, and then the trial of certain election petitions would be adjourned, with great expense and inconvenience to all parties concerned. He therefore put it to his Majesty's Government, whether a compliance with the suggestion which he had thrown out was not desirable.
Mr. S. Ricesaid, that after the decision of the House the other night, postponement could not be thought of. At the same time he admitted that much inconvenience might be felt by parties in the event of difficulty being experienced in obtaining sufficient Members for ballots. But when the difficulty arose, the House must endeavour to deal with it. The hon. Member intimated that it was proposed to get through the ballots for election petitions as fast as possible, and with that view the House, which would adjourn over from to-morrow till Wednesday, would meet again on Thursday, for which day there were three ballots fixed.
Mr. Humehoped no serious idea of postponing the Election Committees was entertained in any quarter. He should certainly oppose such a proposition.
Mr. R. Colbornesuggested, that between that time and to-morrow an opportunity might be afforded to apply to the parties interested, and consult them as to whether it would be of advantage to them to have their election petitions postponed. If ballots were fixed, and a House was not made upon the appointed day, it would occasion a heavy expense to individuals.
Mr. Baringsaid, he did not wish to disturb what had been done the other night, but at the same time he felt that no duty was so important as that of endeavouring to restore tranquillity and quiet to the country. He might, perhaps, be considered an alarmist—a character he should be sorry to sustain, but he found it impossible to conceal his opinion as to the extent of the existing evil, and wished to call the

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attention, not only of individuals locally interested, but of Government, to the subject. He repeated he should be sorry to spread any unnecessary alarm, but must declare his opinion that nothing was so pressing—no duty of Government or individuals so urgent—as to endeavour to put an end to the state of things existing in several counties. The authors of those disorders, he thought, might have been, and still might be, discovered, and the disturbances put an end to, by vigilance and promptitude. He wished for no delay in the ballots on election petitions—that was, he desired no delay that could be safely avoided, but, at the same time, he thought it might be well worth while to incur delay in such matters, if by postponement could be purchased the great object of quieting the country. If putting off election committees, or even an adjournment of the House, would leave Gentlemen at liberty to contribute more efficiently to the attainment of that end, no inconvenience that might be caused to individuals should prevent him from recommending the proceeding.
Sir R. Peelin reference to the hon. Member's allusion to, and implied want of vigilance and promptitude in the late Cabinet, with respect to the disturbances existing in some parts of the country, could only say, that every aid which it was possible for the counties in question to receive from the military force at the disposal of Government, they had received; that every suggestion of the local magistracy—every suggestion calculated to stop the evil, had been adopted by the late Government, which paid the most undivided attention, to the case. Where parties locally interested co-operated with Government—where the disposition towards disturbance had been promptly met by them—it was always suppressed. He had seen individuals, unsupported by any force, refuse to sign papers guaranteeing a reduction of rents and tithes, and he knew of no one case of personal violence having been offered to such individuals, who were uniformly successful in their resistance to such lawless demands. In all cases of this nature the rioters had retired, threatening perhaps to return on a future day, but they did not. No doubt, if there was not a sufficient military and local force to support persons who acted thus, and repress disturbance, Parliament would be at least as much in fault as the late Govern-
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ment, for having compelled Ministers to adopt dangerous reductions. He repeated, every thing which it was possible to do had been done in the way of despatching detachments of the military, and sending portions of the police of the metropolis (although that was a body intended for other purposes), to aid the local force where the exigency called for such assistance. Every species of civil, military, and legal assistance had been promptly given to the local magistracy.
Mr. Baringwas convinced that no person could have attended to the duties of his office more assiduously than did the right hon. Baronet; but giving the right hon. Gentleman every credit for a desire to restore the public quiet, still he must say, he was of opinion that the disturbances might have been put down at once by prompt measures; that when more confined and limited than, unhappily, they now were, the disorders might have been crushed and prevented from extending. He feared, that if the disorders went on for three or four days longer, they would extend beyond the reach of almost any power to suppress them. That was his opinion; if there was not force in the country to put down the disturbances, when they only existed in one county, what chance should we have of suppressing them when they extended, as they soon might, over a dozen counties? If there was not sufficient force to repress these disorders, it was the duty of Government to provide it. But he did not mean to say that there was really any deficiency of force to effect this object; on the contrary, he was of opinion that, with a little more vigour at first, and a better application of the force which we possessed, Government might have prevented the evil from spreading as it had.
Sir R. Peelventured to say, that if a proposal had been made by Government last year to increase the military force of the country, in anticipation of disturbances such as now existed,—he ventured to say that the proposal would not have met the approbation of the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member had said, the disorders might still be put down, and in this sentiment he quite agreed with the hon. Gentleman. Indeed, he saw no reason for apprehension. He thought that, even without reference to a military force, the fact of every man that was menaced being, as was doubtless the case, prepared to fight in defence of

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his property, was sufficient without such an effort. If aggressions were met by a pusillanimous compliance, no military force would suffice to put down the disturbances. Every man who had landed property had dependents more or less numerous—let him arm them, and they would repel all aggression. A case had occurred in which this was done, and 150 men put down a riot. Let others follow the example, and refuse to make concessions to tumultuous violence, and he would assure the hon. Gentleman that there existed a military force sufficient (when thus aided) to put down the disturbances. But without that, all the military and civil force that could be brought to act— all the efforts of a Secretary of State—were as nothing. Indeed, it would be a perilous state of things if every thing depended upon the energy and sagacity of an individual sitting in an office at Whitehall. It would be impossible for a Secretary of State, or any other functionary, to act with advantage in such cases, unaided by the suggestions of the local magistracy.
Leave of absence was given to Mr. Dundas.

DUCHY OF LANCASTER.
Colonel Daviesassured his hon. friend opposite (Mr. Spring Rice) that he felt no hostility towards him, or the newly-appointed Members of his Majesty's Government generally. At the same time he must say, he had seen with feelings of the utmost surprise and concern the announcement of the appointment made to the office, of Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. He said, it was with surprise he saw Government filling up this place, more particularly after what fell from the present Lord Chancellor the other night in the debate on the Civil List. If Ministers persisted in their present line of conduct with respect to the Duchy, and did not themselves take the matter up, he should consider it his duty to bring the subject of the Duchy of Lancaster before the House immediately after the recess.

MINUTES.
The House of Lords was crowded with strangers, anxious to see the Right Hon. H. BROUGHAM take his seat upon the Woolsack, as Lord Chancellor, and as a Peer of Parliament. The patent, however, by which the right hon. Gentleman is created a Peer, had not reached the hands of Mr. Courtenay, the Clerk of Parliament, at 4 o'clock; and, in consequence, Mr. Brougham could not that day take the oaths as a Peer. By virtue of his office as Lord Chancellor, the right hon. Gentleman is a Privy Counsellor, and also Speaker of the House of Lords. As soon as prayers were over, he took his seat upon the Woolsack, and received the congratulations of his friends. He had only power however, to put the question, and could not, even if he had been desirous, have taken any share in the Debate.
The New Ministers, Earl OBEY, the Marquis of LANSDOWN, the Earl of CARLISLE, Viscount GODERICH, and Baron DURHAM, took their scats upon the Treasury Bench.✶
The Duke of WELLINGTON took his place on the first Opposition Bench.
Lord TENTERDEN'S various Bills, the Judgment and Execution Bill, the Interpleaders' Bill, the Prohibition and Mandamus Bill, the Arbitration Bill, and the Witness Examination Bill, went respectively through Committees.
Petitions presented. Against Colonial Slavery, from the Wesleyan Methodists and other bodies of Protestant Dissenters in different parts of the country, by Earl SPENCER, the Marquis of CLEVELAND, the Earl of CARLISLE, the Earl of ROSSLYN, Earl RODEN, the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, Karl GROSVENOR, Lord SUFFIELD, and Lord WHARNCLIFFE. For the improvement of Agriculture, by the Marquis of SALISBURY, from Sir John Sinclair. For the repeal of the Duty on Coals, by the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, from Wisbeach and Holsworth.

THE POOR LAWS.
The Marquisof Salisbury having in the early part of the afternoon postponed his motion for the appointment of a Committee on the Poor-laws, as soon as the usual hour (five o'clock) for transacting public business arrived,
Lord Suffield, after observing that it was not usual in that House to transact public business before five o'clock, declared his acquiescence in the postponement of the motion of the noble Marquis. He thought that nothing could be more improper or more indecorous than to hamper a Ministry, so lately formed, by the immediate introduction of any subject surrounded with so many difficulties as was that of his noble friend; but as, at the same time, it happened to be a motion of such importance that all others sank into insignificance beside it, he trusted the noble Marquis would pledge himself, in all cases, and under all circumstances, to bring forward his motion for the Committee on Monday next.
The Marquis of Salisburyapologised for having given the notice of postponement so early. He stated, it was his firm intention to bring forward his motion on the day he had named, (Monday next) and he added, that he hoped for the assistance and support of the Government.

Master of the King's Buck-Hounds

Viscount Anson

Lord Maryborough

Attorney General

Mr. Denman (knighted)

Sir J. Scarlett

Solicitor General

Mr. Home (knighted)

Sir E. B. Sugden

Lord Chancellor for Ireland

Lord Plunkett

Sir A. Hart

Attorney General for Ireland

Mr. Pennefather

Mr. Joy

Solicitor General for Ireland

Mr. Doherty

Lord Advocate for Scotland

Mr. Francis Jeffery

Sir John Rae

Solicitor General for Scotland

Mr. James Cockburn

Mr. Hope

New Treasury Board.—Charles, Earl Grey; the Right Hon. John Chas. Spencer (commonly called Viscount Althorp); the Right Hon. George, Baron Nugent; Robert Vernon Smith, Esq.; Francis Thornhill Baring, Esq.; and the Hon. George Ponsonby.
New Admiralty Board.—The Right Hon. Sir James Robert George Graham, Bart.; Sir Thomas Masterman Hardy, Bart. K. C. B., Rear-Admiral of the White Squadron of his Majesty's Fleet; the Hon. George Heneage Lawrence Dundas, C. B., Rear-Admiral of the Blue Squadron of his Majesty's Fleet; Sir Samuel John Brooke Pechell, Bart., C. B., Captain in the Royal Navy; and the Hon. George Barrington, Captain in the Royal Navy.

MINISTERIAL DECLARATIONS.
The Marquis of Lansdown, in presenting a Petition from Glasgow, praying for Parliamentary Reform, was understood to state that he was anxious to say a few words to their Lordships. He had been intrusted with several petitions, which he was accidentally prevented from presenting on a former evening, by the speech of the noble and learned Lord then on the Woolsack, respecting the introduction of the Regency Bill; and he trusted that even now, after having been raised to office, he might stand excused in presenting petitions, which expressed an anxiety more or less strong for Parliamentary Reform, if he stated the terms on which he would have previously promoted this measure. There was no noble Lord then present who could be more desirous than he was to preserve our settled institutions; but with respect to these petitions, he was bound to state, that so far he agreed with the sentiments they professed, as to be of opinion that some amendment was necessary in the representation of the people of this country; and he trusted that when they were called to the consideration of this most important and anxious subject, they would take care that no supposed amendment should be made for the sake of change, but that the change made should be, in fact, a substantial improvement. He felt that in stating that some amendment in the representation was necessary, he was borne out by the present condition of the constituency of the country. When he looked to the great interests—commercial and manufacturing, consisting as they did of large bodies of well-informed and enlightened persons, which had been called into existence by the prosperity of the country, by the increased diffusion of wealth, and by the progress of science and discovery—when

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he recollected that those great and useful bodies were without direct connexion with the Legislature (on which direct connexion, for all classes of the people, he believed the safety—nay, even the existence of the Constitution depended,) he could not bring himself to think Reform unnecessary, and the more especially when he considered that there were parts of the country which had not a share amounting to the shadow of a shade in the representation. He was, therefore, a friend to amendment in the representative system; but, with all his feelings in favour of improvement, he was prepared, for one, to say, that there was no Reform in Parliament which did not leave to the property and knowledge of the country— those two great elements of civilized society—a share, and he would even say, a preponderating share, in the representation; there was no such Reform which, as an honest man, he could recommend or support. But, for the reasons he had stated, the subject would be one of anxious deliberation to Parliament; and perhaps he might be allowed to take that opportunity of declaring, that however flattered and honoured he might have felt himself by the gracious kindness of his Majesty, in raising him to a place in his councils, yet he could not, in justice to himself, have availed himself of his Majesty's confidence and condescension, if he had not had reason to confide both in the inclination and the means of his noble friend now at the head of the Government—if he had not reason to place entire confidence in the assurance that he would turn his powerful mind, not only to the question of Parliamentary Reform, but to many other considerations which now pressed upon the attention of the Administration, at a time of great emergency. Having now stated what his feelings were, and the confidence he had in the intentions of his noble friend, he had only to add, that he would turn his mind to this subject, and endeavour, as far as in him lay, to do justice to the people, and preserve the institutions of the country. The noble Marquis concluded by presenting the petition.
Earl Greythen spoke to the following effect:—My Lords, I have heard, with much satisfaction, what has been just said by my noble friend; and, my Lords, I feel inclined to take the occasion of what has fallen from him, to state very shortly,
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which I hope will not be unbecoming in me, the principles upon which I, in obedience to his Majesty's commands, have accepted the high office to which, in the most kind and gracious manner, he has been pleased to call me, and in which my best services are due. My Lords, on the very important subject to which the petition refers, it cannot be necessary for me to say much: My opinions on this question have been long made known to your Lordships, and have been explained, both to your Lordships and the country, on more than one occasion. It is not long since I felt called on, indeed, again to explain them at some length to your Lordships in the debate which took place on the first day of this Session. I then stated, and I now repeat my conviction that it is necessary that the Government (by whom alone the question can be satisfactorily taken up and settled) should take into immediate consideration the state of the representation, with a view to the correction of those defects which have been occasioned in it by the operation of time, and with a view to the re-establishment of that confidence upon the part of the people, which I am afraid Parliament does not at present enjoy to the full extent that is essential for the welfare and safety of the country and the preservation of the Government. I said, too, my Lords, at the same time, and I now repeat it, that I will not support any of those fanciful and extensive plans which are supported by persons out of doors, and which would lead, not to reform, but to confusion. I do not support—I never have supported universal suffrage and annual Parliaments, nor any other of those very extensive changes which have been, I regret to say, too much promulgated in this country, and promulgated by gentlemen from whom better things might have been expected. I wish to stand upon the true principles of the Constitution, but some Reform being | necessary—the principle on which I wish | to regulate it, and I am sure your Lord-! ships cannot fail to see, that to fix that principle is a task of no slight difficulty— the principle, my Lords, which I should lay down to regulate Reform, will be to do as much as may be necessary to secure to the people their due influence in the great council in which they are more particularly represented, and by that means to restore satisfaction and confidence in the decision of the Legislature, without, which the

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Government cannot proceed in comfort and safety. Reform to this extent my Lords,—and if it be not carried to this ex-tent, it will be inefficient—I wish to see effect-ed, but effected with due and fitting regard to the settled institutions of the country. The earnest desire to embark in sudden change, which must inevitably produce disturbance, I do not share—on the contrary, I reject it utterly. My Lords, I do not know that it is necessary for me to say any more on the subject. These observations are undoubtedly of a very general nature, but it is obviously impossible for me now to lay before your Lordships the details of any plan. Suffice it, therefore, for me to say, in general terms, that I acknowledge the necessity of a Reform in the Representation, and that it is my anxious wish to regulate that Reform in such a manner as to restore confidence and satisfaction upon the part of the people without interfering with anything that exists in conformity to the established principles of the Constitution. I am not disposed to meddle with the settled institutions of the country, and I am altogether averse to those fanciful alterations, which, if they could be carried into effect, would produce no result excepting that of occasioning a lamentable collision between the several orders of the State, the firm union and mutual interests of which it will ever be my object to maintain. So much, my Lords, with regard to this subject, on which it will be only necessary for me to add, that before I endeavoured to unite all those, whom I considered most likely to advance the interests of the country, to myself, in his Majesty's Councils, I had his most gracious sanction to be allowed, at a proper period, to submit a measure of this nature and with this object, for the approval of his Majesty, who has authorised me to declare at a proper period, that to the principle of such a measure he is not opposed; but I am sure your Lordships will, at once, understand that notwithstanding the most extensive industry upon our part, the question is one not lightly to be taken up, being, as it is, one requiring much time and consideration. Besides, my Lords, the load of official business to which we shall be subjected, must be such that I cannot be expected, at this moment, to have any specific motion to submit, or to be able to submit a complete plan on so complicated a subject at a few short hours notice.
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My Lords, there are one or two other subjects on which I conceive it will be becoming in me to say a few words We have succeeded to the administration of affairs in a season of unparalleled difficulty. All I can say is, that to the subject of the motion for Monday next, to which I am first naturally attracted by the observations of the noble Baron, all I can say is, that I look to it with the utmost anxiety, from the reference it bears to the labouring classes, and the whole situation of the country. It is only within the last three hours that my colleagues and I have been installed in our respective offices as Members of his Majesty's Government, and we have yet had no access to official documents, and have received no information respecting the measures which have been pursued by our predecessors. Under these circumstances, I can only promise that the state of the country shall be made the object of our immediate, our diligent and unceasing attention—of our first and most anxious attention; for there is nothing my Lords which so imperatively calls for the most unceasing and diligent attention on the part of the Government as the present state of the labouring classes, in several of the agricultural districts. I have, therefore, my Lords, summoned a council for this evening, to consider what may be done with greatest speed and effect. To relieve the distress which now so unhappily exists in different parts of the country, will be the first and most anxious object of our deliberations; but I here declare for myself (and in doing so, I also speak for my colleagues)—I declare that it is my determined resolution, wherever outrages are perpetrated, or excesses committed, to suppress them with severity and vigour. Severity is, in the first instance, the only remedy which can be applied to such disorders with success; and which can guard against the future recurrence of them. Although we are most anxious to relieve the distress of the people who are suffering, let them, therefore, be well assured they shall find no want of firm resolution upon our part to repress criminal designs, and to punish the guilty. I am desirous, then, my Lords, that the people—though God forbid I should bring so groundless a charge against the people of England, or attribute to them feelings and conduct in which alone a small portion of the people in some of the districts indulge—

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I am desirous, my Lords, that that portion of the people should be told, that the effect of their proceedings is this—that while they complain of want of employment, they destroy the very means by which they will be benefitted; and I am desirous that they should learn, that the Government, although it commiserates their situation, is firmly resolved not to connive at their excesses. So far, my Lords, respecting our most pressing domestic concerns; but there is another subject closely, I might say intimately, connected with the distress of the people, to which I will advert. My Lords, to reduce all unnecessary expense is the firm resolution of myself and my colleagues, maintaining, however, all that is positively required for the support and service of the Government, while we cut off with an unsparing hand all that is not demanded for the interests, the honour, and the welfare of the country. We have, since our appointment to Office, already resolved to cut off some places about which there has been a discussion elsewhere; but do not suppose, that we take credit to ourselves for effecting so trifling a reduction, or that we limit our views to such insignificant reduction. No, my Lords, every part of the Government is open to consideration and revision; and I can assure your Lordships that future reductions shall be made with unflinching severity, and with all the care and diligence which we can apply to the subject. Connected with the question of economy and retrenchment is doubtless that of maintaining the public credit, and on this I will merely observe, that it is at once our interest and our most sacred duty, and it shall be our object, to support public credit by all means in our power. The only other point which it remains for me to touch upon, and on which it may be satisfactory to your Lordships to receive some explanation, is our relations with Foreign Powers, and the line of policy which the present Administration means to pursue. On this, as on the other branches into which I have divided my statement, I must say, that hitherto we have had no means of knowing what has been done upon this subject by any of our predecessors. But, my Lords, I now repeat in office what I before stated as my opinion out of office, that the first object, interest, and duty, of the British Government, ought to be, to
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maintain peace by all means consistent with the honour of the country. Our true policy is, to maintain universal peace, and therefore non-interference is the princilpe,—the great principle which ought to be and will be heartily adopted by the present administration. I cannot say more, not knowing what has been the course pursued by my predecessors; but in looking to the means by which peace may be preserved, we must also look to the maintenance of our connection with the Powers with whom we are in alliance. It must be the care of the new Government, as I have no doubt it was of the old, to maintain a proper connection with our allies, for the purpose of amicably seeding all questions which may be likely to disturb the repose of Europe. Some solicitude may be felt in consequence of the events lately passed in France, but with that country I trust we shall be able to hold the most friendly relations. Between these two great and powerful nations, standing on the same principles of public liberty, and influenced by the same high and honourable motives, and by the same desire to promote each its own prosperity and happiness, I trust the union, arising from community of sentiment and feeling, will be the closest and the most enduring. Their common interest will, I hope, teach them to seek and to promote each the welfare and the happiness of the other, and cautiously to avoid all views of aggrandizement and ambition, which might endanger the stability of both empires, and disturb the peace of the civilized world. These, my Lords, are the views of his Majesty's Government. To sum up in a few words the principles on which I stand, they will, I trust, be found to be these—Amelioration of Abuses—Promotion of the most rigid Economy—and every endeavour to preserve peace consistently with the honour of the country. Under these principles I have undertaken a task, to which I have not the affectation or presumption to state that I am equal. I am arrived at a time of life, my Lords, when retirement and repose are more to be desired than that active and anxious exertion to which I shall be subjected in the high office to which my gracious Sovereign has been pleased to call me. And I can assure your Lordships that I should not have engaged in this arduous task had I not found, and I may be permitted to say

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thus much without incurring the charge of vanity or arrogance, as it arises from no merits of my own, but rather to accidental circumstances, had I not found that if I did not submit to the will of the Sovereign such an Administration as I could support, and as I thought necessary to the country in its present circumstances could not be formed. My Lords, I remembered my age and my limited capabilities, but I was aware that if I declined the task which had been allotted to me, there was reason to fear the attempt to form a new Administration might have failed altogether. Urged, therefore, my Lords, by considerations of public duty to attempt that to which I am not equal, the government of the country at this momentous crisis, my only trust is in the support of this House and of the public, and above all, in the gracious kindness and confidence of his Majesty, which alone can safely carry me through the difficulties with which I am surrounded. With this support I am ready to attempt all things for the service of the country—looking always to the principles on which I have demanded this support, and claiming now that indulgence which may be well and justly accorded to an Administration formed under such circumstances, and so recently completed. If hereafter it shall be found that I cannot execute what I have undertaken—if I cannot conduct the public affairs in a manner satisfactory to those from whom I claim support—if it be proved that I am unable to bear the load I have essayed to carry, I shall be willing and ready to resign into his Majesty's hands that power which he has so graciously, so kindly, and so confidingly submitted to me, in a manner which displayed at once his love for his country, his earnest desire to promote its prosperity, and his great condescension towards myself. It is not necessary for me to say more than to express my gratitude at the confidence of his most gracious Majesty, which alone enabled me to form an Administration so rapidly and under such peculiar circumstances; for it is only this day week that I was listening on the other side of the House to the speech of the noble and learned Lord lately on the Woolsack, and little did I then suppose that such an event would come to pass, and it is only by the gracious confidence of the Sovereign that I have been, in this short space of time, enabled to assemble around me, with no view to parliamentary
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influence, with no other view than that of their competency to fill their situations, the friends with whom I act. My Lords, my present task is done, the Administration stands before you and the public. You know the persons who compose it, you have heard the principles on which it professes to act; and for the maintenance of them we throw ourselves upon the confidence and support of our Sovereign, your Lordships, and the country.
The Earl of Radnorwas understood to declare his conviction, that Parliamentary Reform was not merely expedient, but the only measure which could ensure the salvation of the country. He was certain that if the speech which the noble Marquis had just made on that subject, accompanied as it had been by the commentary of the noble Earl, went forth to the country, it would create in every quarter consternation and dismay. The noble Earl had expressed the dismay which he felt at what he called the fanciful and the extreme plans of reform which were abroad. It was not the first time that he had heard such expressions fall from the noble Earl. He did not quarrel with the noble Earl for using them, but he must lament that the noble Earl, occupying so prominent a situation as he now did in his Majesty's councils, should have dealt in such general declarations, and should have publicly asserted, that it was impossible for Government to pledge itself to any specific plan of reform. If he understood the noble Marquis correctly,— and he was not sure that he did,—the noble Marquis's plan of reform was, to grant the elective franchise to some large towns and to preserve the least defensible part of the present system, the small and decayed boroughs. Now, if the noble Earl, in speaking of his intention to adopt no system of reform which should not pay due respect to the settled institutions of the country, meant, like the noble Marquis to preserve the smaller boroughs, he would repeat his former assertion, that the declaration of these two Ministers would spread consternation and dismay from one end of the kingdom to the other. He could tell them that such a system of reform would be rejected as insufficient by the whole country. He hoped that he had misunderstood the noble Earl, and he hoped he had, for it was his firm conviction that nothing but Parliamentary Reform on a wide basis, a basis

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much wider than that laid down by the noble Earl, would satisfy the people or save the country. Within a few days expectation has been raised to the highest pitch by the appointment of the present Administration, and he again warned the noble Earl that he would spread dismay and confusion through the country should he not be prepared to propose reform on an extensive scale.
Earl Grey: I am surprised at the manner in which the noble Earl has received what I said. I stated, that I think the question of reform should be taken into consideration; and that I had the permission of his Majesty to bring before him, at a proper time, a plan for reforming the representation. What I said was, that looking with apprehension to the wild and fanciful theories which I regretted were too much promulgated—but feeling also that the defects which had been occasioned by time in the representation required correction, my object would be to propose—if the happy medium can be found—such a reform as would in this respect satisfy the public expectation, without endangering—here was the limit, and the only limit—by sudden change and violent disturbance, the settled institutions of the country. Does my noble friend mean to say, that a reform which rests on that principle will be at once rejected by the country? If so, I tell him that those who would thus reject it expect revolution and not reform. My great object is, the desire of preventing that which, be it needed as it may, must always be the greatest of all possible political evils. The principle of my reform is, to prevent the necessity for revolution. And I must say, I do not. think it fair of my noble friend to look for a declaration less limited, or to wish for details. I trust the House will be satisfied with the principle and the limit I lay down, which seems to have been so much misunderstood by the noble Earl. When did he find that I limited the reform to giving Representatives to the large towns? The principle on which I mean to act is neither more nor less than that of reforming to preserve, and not to overthrow.
The Marquis of Lansdownalso defended himself from having limited the proposed Reform to giving Representatives to the large towns. He was convinced that he consulted the public interests by abstaining altogether from entering into
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a detailed statement on the subject of reform till the intended measure of his Majesty's Ministers was ripened and sufficiently matured to be submitted as a perfect whole to the consideration of Parliament. At the proper period, he said, he should be prepared to show, that the great object he and his colleagues had in view was, to preserve, while they improved, the Representation of the people in Parliament.
The Earl of Radnorwould not have uttered one word of detail on the subject of reform, had not the noble Earl and the noble Marquis who had just spoken, themselves led the way, by a statement of their views on that most important subject. The noble Marquis, for example, had intimated the intention of Ministers to propose a plan for enfranchising the large towns ["No, no."]. With their leave, he might not have used these exact words, but the import was to that effect. If the noble Lords had themselves preserved the discreet silence which they recommended to him, he would not have then taken it upon him to utter a word on the subject.
Lord Wharncliffehad listened to the statement of the noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Ministers with his best attention, and, he was happy to say, with satisfaction. The question of Reform of Parliament had now made such progress, that the door could not be any longer shut against it, and the question was, what were they to do, what plan of reform was it most expedient to adopt? The answer of the noble Earl, that he should take care, in effecting a reform of the representation of the people, to inviolably preserve the monarchy, and the established institutions of the country, was one which he could not but approve of, and which, therefore, would make him willing to give the noble Earl his support when his measure was before their Lordships. He also, and so he was sure did every noble Lord who had heard him, approved of the views of the noble Earl respecting the foreign relations of the country—that every effort, compatible with the honour and character of the country, would be made to preserve peace; for he could assure him, that there was no one point on which the honest and sound portion of the community was more earnest than that we should, as much as possible, consistently with the permanent interests of the country, avoid unnecessary warlike interference with foreign States.

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He also was disposed to support the noble Earl's plan for retrenchment, so far as was compatible with the integrity of existing establishments. The noble Earl would, he hoped, excuse him if he took advantage of that first occasion of suggesting to him the policy and true wisdom of avoiding the error into which the party of which the noble Earl had been usually considered the head, had of late years too often exhibited a tendency to fall,—he meant that of being led too much by mere popular applause. He had the highest opinion of the noble Earl's firmness and consistency, but still he could not avoid assuring him, that if in his measures he permitted himself to be led astray by any ignis fatuus of popularity, he would most certainly be deceived, for the light would only lead him and his party to destruction. The people were now persuaded that the most extravagant benefits would result from reform; but if it were granted to-morrow in the largest sense it would not relieve their distress. He hoped, therefore, that the new Administration would not foster these unfounded expectations. He trusted, indeed, that he should be enabled to give the noble Earl his best and cordial support for the general tendency of his measures; and that, in watching those measures with becoming vigilance, he should never be provoked into unnecessary opposition.
The Earl of Carnarvoncould not but regret that Ministers had given notice of a most important measure, on a subject in which the public felt a deep interest, without being at the same time prepared to enter into a detailed statement of the scope and object of their plan, as great inconvenience, and, he feared, great misconception would be the consequence. The whole of the intentions of the noble Earl on this important subject could be gathered only by vague surmise, and he feared that each heated imagination would put its own interpretation on his words. He was as disconnected with the new as with the late Administration, and should be determined in his votes by the character and tendency of the measures proposed, apart from other considerations. Their Lordships could not now delay or postpone taking the question of reform into consideration, and a tremendous question it was, without apprehending the most fearful consequences. He thought, and he always had thought some measure of reform necessary, and that the recent declaration of a noble Duke
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against all reform was the cause of much of the present discontent of the public mind. But while he was prepared to support such a measure as would improve and remedy the present system of representation of Members of the other House of Parliament, without endangering the established institutions of the country, he felt himself bound to declare, that those who considered that withholding that reform was the cause of—or granting it the remedy for—the distress under which the labouring classes in many districts then laboured, not only were deceiving themselves, but would, by deceiving and disappointing the country, add greatly to the distress and discontent of the public. He was willing to urge this point, the rather, as he feared the reaction, which the impression he was endeavouring to counteract would create among those now labouring under distress, would only tend to work up the discontented into a climax of dissatisfaction with the measures of the Government, for which it might not be easy to devise an efficient remedy. He was far from wishing the noble Earl to delay his plan of reform; he would urge him, indeed, if he had any regard to his own safety, and to the safety of the country, to bring it forward as soon as possible; but, at the same time, he would warn him, that if he thought by any measure of reform to still the popular clamour, and diminish the public distress, he would but aggravate the evils. The distress, the difficulties of the industrious classes, must be got rid off before quiet could be restored. The distress, therefore, for which reform will afford no remedy, must be first taken into consideration, and he trusted that the question of inquiry into the causes of the distress which prevailed unhappily in so many districts of the country would not be left to any individual Member of either House, but would be taken up by the Government in its aggregate and responsible character. These causes were too deep-seated to be properly sifted and remedied by any plan or measure not emanating from Ministers, and therefore should at once occupy their most serious attention. He would not then endeavour to explain his own views of the origin of that distress, particularly as it applied to the agricultural districts, further than to observe, that it lay chiefly in the altered relations between the farmer and his labourer, which had been in progress for

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the last fourteen or fifteen years, under which the agricultural labourer no longer possessed that occupancy or tenure in the land which would afford him a sufficient sustenance without being compelled to have recourse to the poor-rates for a portion of his wages—a system which, by depriving him of all stake or interest in the land he would have occupied under a better state of things, made him a ready prey to discontent, and a ready listener to violent means of amending his condition,—a system which, in fact, by making the agricultural labourer dependent for the payment of his hardly-earned wages on poor-rates, miserably and churlishly doled out, had rendered the condition of the poor of the country more abject than that of the poor of any other nation, and, as a consequence, had made them more dissatisfied with existing institutions. Within his own recollection the payment of the wages of labour out of the poor-rates was a thing hardly known, and every agricultural labourer had his own cottage and a small portion of soil to cultivate for the use of his family. Now the system prevailed in whole counties, and it was not unusual to see four or five wretched labourers huddled together in one miserable hut. For their misery some remedy must be found. Within the last few years the capital of the farmers had been almost annihilated and they were no longer able to feed and employ their labourers. Some remedy must be found for this growing evil, or assuredly such calamities would intervene as the country had seldom seen. The whole system required amendment, and he trusted would not be neglected by Ministers, as it was much more intimately connected with the distress of the country, than, as might readily be supposed, the more splendid question of reform. He trusted that the whole subject of the distressed condition of the working classes would be taken up by the new Government, and not be left to any individual not in Office; the rather, as a measure for amending the poor-rates must emanate from the other House, as coming under the head of a money-bill; and as holding out an expectation of relief to that distress by means of a reform of the representation would only be followed by mischievous disappointment to all parties. Earl Grey thought that the advocates of the most extensive and extravagant measure of reform would have paid the new Government the civility of waiting till their
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measures were submitted to their Lordships' consideration, before they called for a detailed statement of the provisions of those measures, or pronounced that their effect upon the country would be neither more nor less than consternation and dismay. Without then entering into a detail—which he was sure would be best brought forward on a future occasion—of his plan of reform, he would observe, that the noble Earl's remarks were, he must say, unnecessary, and, it should seem, founded on a misconception. He had not in any part of his speech connected the necessity of a reform with the distress under which the working classes in certain districts then laboured. He did not propose as the remedy for that distress a reform of the representation; still less was it to be inferred from what he had said, that the people of England did not labour under other grievances which called for redress. On the contrary, he stated, in the most explicit terms he could make use of, that the very first subject to which the King's new Government would have to bestow their most serious attention was, above all others, the distressed condition of the working classes. He repeated, to that condition would be devoted their most serious deliberations from that very night, on which, as he had already stated, a Council was to be held, with a view to consider the subject and remedy; and that that inquiry having been instituted, and some measures adopted, Ministers would next apply themselves to the important subject of Reform in Parliament.
The Earl of Carnarvonbegged the noble Earl to understand, that his remarks wore not meant to apply to his speech, but to what had fallen on the subject of distress and reform from a noble Earl (Radnor) near him.
The Petition laid on the Table.
The Marquis of Lansdownpresented a similar Petition from Cupar. Laid on the Table.