Sitting of 17 November 1830

MINUTES.
New Writs. Mr. C. GRANT moved that a New Writ be issued for Liverpool, in consequence of the death of the Right Hon. W. Huskisson, since his election: —Sir R. WILSON moved that a New Writ be issued for Southwark, in consequence of the death of Mr. Harris since his election:—Lord EBRINGTON being called upon to make his election between the County of Devon and the Borough of Tavistock, for both of which he had been elected, informed the Speaker that he made his election to serve for the County of Devon. A New Writ was accordingly ordered to be issued for Tavistock:—Lord Milton having accepted the Chiltern Hundreds, a New Writ was issued for the Borough of Peterborough, on the Motion of Sir R. HERON.
petitions presented. For the abolition of Negro Slavery, by Sir G. NUGENT, from Buckingham:—By Mr. WESTERN, three from Towns in Essex:—By Sir C. MORGAN, from Brecon;—By Mr. BURTON, two from Beverley and the
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vicinity; and one by Mr. D. SYKES:—By Mr. CHOLMONDELEY, from Spalding:—By Mr. CARTWRIGHT, from a Parish in Bedfordshire, and from another in Northamptonshire:—By Mr. WYNDHAM, from Salisbury: —By Mr. M. A. TAYLOR, two from South Shields and the vicinity:—By Lord EBRINGTON, from Ilfracombe and Topsham:—By Mr. DUNCOMBE, five from Yorkshire:—By Sir G. HEATHCOTE, from Rutlandshire:—By Lord MORPETH, a great number from the vicinity of Doncaster: —By Mr. WILKS, from Plymouth and Dept-ford:—By Sir J. GRAHAM, four from Cumberland, seven from Northumberland, and one from Westmoreland:— By Mr. BELL, two from Northumberland:—By Mr. LOWTHER, from Shafton, and three other places:—By Sir W. GUISE, five from Gloueestershire:—By Mr. S. JERNINGHAM, from Pontefraet:—By Mr. LANGSTON, from Oxford:—By Mr. J. SMITH, three from Bognor:— By Lord TAVISTOCK, from Dunstable, and three other places:—By Sir T. ACLAND, from Devonport:—By Mr. DENISON, from Camberwell:—By Lord W. POWLETT, from South Shields:—By Mr. MARSHALL, from Leominster:—By Mr. J. WOOD, from a place near Wigan, Lancashire.

Mr. D. Sykes, in presenting his petition, took occasion to observe, that he would not give his support to any government which would not pledge itself to give freedom to the slave, an improved system of representation to the people, and a great reduction of taxation to all classes of the community.
Against the Duty on Sea-borne Coal, by Sir J. GRAHAM, from Sunderland:—By Sir W. GORDON, from Padstow: —By Lord EBRINGTON, from Topsham and Ashburton. Praying for a remission of the House and Window Tax, by Mr. H. DAVIS, from a Ward in Bristol. For a revision of the Bankrupt Laws, by Mr. O'CONNELL, from an individual who had been in business at Limerick, and had unfortunately become Bankrupt.
A Bill was brought in by Mr. PORTMAN, to Consolidate and Amend the Laws relating to Highways in England and Wales.

POSTPONEMENT OF ELECTION COMMITTEES.
Sir M. W. Ridleysaid, it would not be necessary that he should detain the House many minutes with the reasons that had induced him to give notice of the Motion that stood on the paper. Late occurrences had, however, furnished him with a new argument in favour of the Resolution he should submit to the House. In consequence of the resignation of the late Ministry, a considerable time must elaspse before the Members who were to compose the new Administration could take their seats in the House. This would cause delay, and hon. Members generally looked forward to a long recess. It would be impossible for the House to proceed with any effective business in the absence of Ministers, and he did not see why Members should be kept in town for the mere purpose of attending election committees. There were many election petitions which would not be heard at all; but the hearing of some was fixed for an early day, and these

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he did not mean to include in his Resolution, which was, "That the House will not, before the adjournment of the House for the Christmas recess, take into consideration any election petitions except those which are fixed for the 25th and 30th days of this instant November." He left this Resolution in the hands of the House, observing only, that he had no interest, direct or indirect, in any of the petitions that had been presented on this subject.
Mr. C. W. Wynnthought, the Gentlemen who expected a very long recess at Christmas would find themselves mistaken. Up to that recess, whatever it might be, the House must sit constantly, and he could not anticipate any long recess when he saw the state in which the money votes stood. If the House did sit, what more important business could be brought before it than these petitions? He thought that, if this Resolution were passed, much inconvenience would result to the House, and he was sure it would be a great hardship upon those concerned in the fate of the petitions. There were, in all, sixty-eight petitions, and it was pretty certain that, although they would not all be heard, there would be at least fifty-five ballots. It appeared to him, that to agree to this Resolution, would be to delay justice in cases which required the most speedy adjudication that the House could make.
Mr. Broughamwas decidedly opposed to this Motion. He thought it a matter of the utmost necessity that they should fill up their numbers; and entertaining such an opinion, he could not but be astonished, both at the proposition itself, and still more at the reasons given in its favour. "What," said the hon. and learned Gentleman, "do we want with the presence of the Ministers on election petitions? What do we want with them? We can do as well (I speak it with all possible respect of any future Ministry); but I say we can do as well without them as with them. I have nothing to do with them except in the respect I bear them, and except as a Member of this House. I state this for the information of those who may feel any interest in the matter." The Motion of his hon. friend involved a matter relating to one of the most important questions that could occupy the attention of that House. It was a question who had and who had not a right to sit there; and to delay determining such a question might possibly be, in fact, allowing men to sit
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there who had no right to the seats they occupied, and excluding other men who had the best right to them. He could not, therefore, consent to the postponement of such a question. As to the inconvenience it was supposed Members would feel from remaining in town, he begged to observe, that till within these two days Members had every reason to expect that they would be obliged to remain in town till a few days before Christmas; and the event which had happened within these two days was the first that could have led them to expect an adjournment of the House. It was impossible, therefore, that they could feel much inconvenience at not being able to enjoy a temporary leisure, which, till within so short a period, they had no reason to expect. If the Motion were carried, the inconvenience to parties would be very great, for in many instances they had their witnesses in town, and their briefs prepared and delivered. He knew not what motive of interest, either in or out of that House, could be served by such a delay; but of this he was sure, that the delay, without being called for by circumstances, or even justified by necessity, would be found to be very injurious to many parties. The petitioners and their opponents were both entitled to have their interests advocated by the best Counsel whom they could select from the Common Law Bar, the Members of which were most generally selected for arguing these questions: but if the consideration of the petitions was delayed till February that selection could not be had, and the monopoly which now existed would be preserved. On all these grounds he felt so strongly opposed to the Motion, that he should take the sense of the House upon it; and he trusted that he should find they would not so far forget their duty to themselves as to grant the proposed delay.
Sir E. Carringtonconcurred in the view taken by the hon. and learned Member, and he meant to oppose the Motion.
Mr. Littletonwas also decidedly opposed to the Resolution. There could be no necessity for the presence of Ministers, since, by virtue of their office, they were allowed, by Act of Parliament, to absent themselves on such occasions.
Mr. Portmanwas of opinion that all persons connected with election petitions should precisely understand the time when the committees upon such petitions were to be ballotted for. If that were

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known he thought it was of no importance how the Motion was decided.
Mr. Cresset Pelhamwas opposed to delay.
Sir M. W. Ridley Sir M. W. Ridley, in reply, disclaimed having any private or personal motives for bringing forward this Motion. He had merely discharged what he considered to be his duty to the House.

DR. PHILLPOTTS, BISHOP OF EXETER.
Sir J. Grahamsaid, before the House decided the question, he wished to take that opportunity to put a question to the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir R. Peel) relative to a motion of his (Sir J. Graham's), the notice for which stood in the Order-book of the House for to-morrow evening. He had observed by the Gazette of last night, that the congé d'elire had passed the Great Seal, empowering the Dean and Chapter of Exeter to proceed to the election of Dr. Phillpotts as Bishop of that See. Now he (Sir J. Graham) was desirous to know whether his Majesty's Ministers, who were at present holding office only pro tempore, would advise his Majesty to issue the patent for enabling Dr. Phillpotts to hold the living of Stanhope in commendam, with the Bishopric of Exeter, if that living should become vacant before his Majesty's Ministers had their places supplied.
Sir R. Peelsaid, that his Majesty's pleasure had been taken respecting the issuing of the congé d'elire for the election of Dr. Phillpotts, before his Majesty's Government had been dissolved, and before the notice to which the hon. Baronet had referred had been given, and his Majesty's intentions had been notified, previous to the giving of that notice, to Dr. Phillpotts, respecting the living of Stanhope in commendam; the instruments for the congé d'elire had been accordingly completed; but no steps had been taken respecting the granting of the living of Stanhope in commendam, and no steps would be taken, until the consecration of Dr. Phillpotts had taken place. He should not feel himself justified in expediting the passing of any such instrument. He should not feel himself warranted in departing from the usual course, and therefore, until the consecration had taken place, he should not take any steps for the issuing of an instrument for the holding of the living in question in commendam. Probably his Majesty's Government would be completed before
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that time, and he should not have the opportunity of taking any such step respecting such an instrument. At the same time, he would say, that with regard to any instrument upon which his Majesty's pleasure had been taken previous to the dissolution of the Ministry, he should feel it his duty, as Secretary of State, though holding the Seals of office only pro tempore, to transmit to his Majesty such an instrument for his Majesty's signature. At the present moment, there were various instruments passing through the Home Office, respecting which his Majesty's pleasure had been already taken. This, however, he would state, for the satisfaction of the hon. Baronet, that he might be assured that nothing would be done secretly respecting this; but that, in the event, which was very improbable, of his (Sir Robert Peel's) holding the Seals of office when that instrument was to be made out, he should give him previous notice, and the fullest information which was necessary to enable him to bring that matter under the notice of the House. It was extremely improbable, as he had already said, that he should still hold the Seals of office then. He could not promise that, in such an event, he would depart from the usual course; but he repeated, that he would give the hon. Baronet notice before any step should be taken for making out the instrument. He was aware that any delay in the discussion of the hon. Baronet's motion would be most disagreeable to the Bishop of Exeter, after the notice which had been given by the hon. Baronet. After that notice it would be most disagreeable to him if his friends in that House should not have an opportunity, as soon as possible, of stating the reasons upon which he grounded his defence.
Sir James Grahamobserved, that the assurance just given by the right hon. Gentleman, if given in private, would be quite satisfactory and convincing, but such an assurance before that House was still more convincing, as a promise was now distinctly given that no artifice would be resorted to to prevent the sense of the House from being taken upon this question, if the consecration of the Bishop of Exeter should take place while the right hon. Gentleman held the Seals of the Home Department. He (Sir James Graham) did not wish that any departure should be made from the established usage until the consecration. He believed, however, that

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neither the issuing of the congé d'elire, nor the election, created the vacancy in the living, but that it was created by the consecration and the doing of homage. Consequently, until that had occurred, it would not be in the power of the right hon. Gentleman to take any steps to have the instrument in question made out. He should now postpone his motion, on the understanding that, if the right hon. Gentleman continued to hold the Seals of office when this living became vacant, he should have an opportunity of bringing the matter before the House. With regard to the wish which had been expressed on the part of Dr. Phillpotts, that this question should be raised at the earliest possible moment, he (Sir J. Graham) would only say, that he made no personal attack upon Dr. Phillpotts; that he had brought forward this question solely from a sense of his public duty; and that he should not depart from the course which, in accordance with that public duty, he had laid down for himself, merely for the purpose of gratifying the friends of Dr. Phillpotts. He therefore begged leave to postpone his Motion till to-morrow se'nnight.
Mr. Phillpottsexpressed a hope, on behalf of his relative (Dr. Phillpotts) that the hon. Baronet would bring forward his Motion to-morrow, in order to afford Dr. Phillpotts the earliest opportunity for vindicating himself.
Sir J. Grahamfound it impossible to comply with the request.
The House divided upon the Motion of Sir M. W. Ridley, when the numbers were—For the Motion 91; Against it 156 —Majority against it 65.
Other business was postponed.

MINUTES.
Petitions from several places in York, Durham, Staffordshire, and other places, were presented by Lords WHARNCLIFFE, SUFFIELD, DURHAM, KING, the Earl of HADDINGTON, and the Bishop of LICHFIELD, for the abolition of Negro Slavery.