Sitting of 4 February 1830

MINUTES.
The House met at two o'clock; and after having been summoned to attend in the House of Lords, and previously to reading the Copy of the Lords Commissioners Speech, the Speaker acquainted the House, that he had issued warrants for new writs, for EYE, in the room of Sir Miles Nightingall, deceased: for SOUTHAMPTON, in the room of Wm. Chamberlayne, esq. deceased: LIMERICK COUNTY, in the room of Thomas Lloyd, esq. deceased.
The marq. of DOURO, for Aldeburgh: PHILIP CHARLES SIDNEY, esq. for Eye: DANIEL O'CONNELL,* esq. for Clare: GEORGE BANKES, esq. for Corfe Castle: Sir JAMES SCARLETT, for Peterborough: and Sir EDW. BURTEN-SHAW SUGDEN, for Weymouth: then took the oaths and their seats.
ROWLAND STEPHENSON.—The Speaker then acquainted the House, that he had received a letter from Mr. James Bourdillon, solicitor to the estate of Rowland Stephenson, esq., a bankrupt, inclosing a certificate of the commissioners under the Commission issued against the said Rowland Stephenson; and the said letter was read; and is as follows:—
Bread Street, 19th Jan. 1850.
Sir;—As solicitor to the estate of Mr. Rowland Stephenson, a bankrupt, I am directed by the commissioners under the commission issued against him, to transmit to you their certificate of the issuing of such commission; and that Mr. Rowland Stephenson has not paid his creditors, although twelve calendar months have elapsed since the issuing of the said commission, and that the same has not been superseded. I have the honour to be, &c. J. BOURDILLON.
To the Speaker of the House of Commons.
Then the certificate was read; and is as follows;
To the Right Hon. the Speaker, &c. &c.
At the Court of Commissioners of Bankrupts, in Basinghall Street, London, the 19th day of Jan. 1830.
We whose names are hereunto subscribed, being the major part of the commissioners named and authorised in and by a commission of bankrupt awarded and issued against WILLIAM REMINGTON, ROWLAND STEPHENSON, DAVID ROBT. REMINGTON, and JOSEPH PETTY TOULMIN, of Lombard Street, in the city of London, bankers and copartners, do hereby certify, that a commission of bankrupt under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, grounded upon statute made and now in force concerning bankrupts, bearing date at Westminster the thirty-first day of December, one thousand eight hundred and twenty-eight, hath been awarded and issued against the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, together with WILLIAM REMINGTON, DAVID ROBERT REMINGTON, and JOSEPH PETTY TOULMIN, directed to us, and also to John Beames and Henry John Shepherd, esqs., as commissioners, to execute the same; and that the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, (together with the said WM.
*MR. O'CONNELL took the Oath (at the left side of the table), and then shook hands with the Speaker. He afterwards seated himself in Mr. Hume's place and shook hands, and entered into conversation with sir F. Burdett. Very few members were present at the time. The other members took the oaths and their seat, but they were sworn at the right side of the table, the usual Place,
REMINGTON, DAVID ROBERT REMINGTON, and JOSEPH PETTY TOULMIN), was found and declared a bankrupt under the same:
And we further certify that, although twelve calendar months have expired since the issuing of the said commission, the same hath not been superseded, nor have the creditors of the said ROWLAND STEPHENSON, or of him and his said partners, who have proved their debts under the said commission been paid or satisfied to the full amount of their debts under the said commission, according to the provisions in that behalf of an Act of Parliament made and passed in the fifty-second year of the reign of his late majesty King George the Third, intituled, "An Act to suspend and finally vacate the seats of members of the House of Commons who shall become bankrupts, and who shall not pay their debts in full within a limited time."
Witness,

H. HASKER, Clerk to Mr. Jas.

Bourdillon, Solicitor, Bread Street, Cheapside.

JOHN TURNER,

J. B. MACAULAY

G. F. HAMPSON,

Mr. PLANTA then moved, that the Act 52 Geo. 3, c. 144, to suspend and finally vacate the seats of members of the House of Commons who shall become bankrupts, and who shall not pay their debts in full within a limited time, might be read. The same having been read; it was ordered, that Mr. Speaker do issue his warrant to the clerk of the Crown, to make out a new Writ for the electing of a burgess to serve in this present parliament for the borough of Leominster, in the room of Rowland Stephenson, esq., whose seat has become vacant pursuant to the provisions of the said act.
New writs were ordered for WATERFORD COUNTY in the room of Henry Villiers Stuart, esq., Chiltern Hundreds: for Harwich, in the room of right hon. John Charles Henries, President of the Board of Trade: for WEST-LOOE, in the room of Charles Buller, esq., Chiltern Hundreds: for MEATH, in the room of Earl of Bective, now marquis of Headfort.
Mr. DAVENPORT gave notice that on the 16th inst. he should renew his motion relative to the state of the country, if forty members were present.

CLERGY, CHURCHES, AND CHAPELS.
Mr. Hume(in continuation of returns ordered last session) moved an Address for "Copies or Abstracts of the Returns made to his Majesty in council by each bishop in England and Wales on 25th March 1827 or 1828, as directed by the twenty-third section of 57 Geo. 3, c. 99:—Return of the number of parish churches and chapels, and chapels of ease, of the church of England, in each parish, and the total in England and Wales:—Abstract of the number of resident and licensed curates in England and Wales, with the amount of the salaries of curacies, according to the diocesan returns for the years 1827 and 1828:—Of the number of places of worship, not of the chinch of England, in each parish; distinguishing, as far as possible, of what sect or persuasion, and the total number of each sect in England and Wales."
Mr. William Smithsaid, there was no proper officer to whom an order for such a return could be directed. If the returns could be had without expense to private
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parties, he thought it highly desirable that they should be obtained; but he confessed he did not exactly see how they could be got at.
Mr. Humesaw no such difficulty. Every bishop was aware of the number in his own diocese; and, no doubt, the Home Secretary would know to whom to send the order so as to ensure obedience to it.
Mr. Secretary Peelsaid, it might be perfectly practicable to supply part of the information which the honourable member sought; but as to the number of persons attending, he really did not see whose business it could be to make returns upon that subject; certainly there were no official means of arriving at the information. As far as the motion could be, it should be complied with.—Motion agreed to.

ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.
Mr. Protheroe(in continuation of orders for accounts presented last session) moved addresses for returns from all Courts, and other authorities in England and Wales, empowered to grant probate of wills and letters of administration, stating the date of the earliest wills in their respective registries, the period at which there commences a regular series of original wills and recorded copies of administration, bonds and inventories of act, books of probates and administrations, and of indexes to the said records:—Together with a statement of any occasional chasms, that may occur in, and an accurate detail of the state, and condition of, the said records:—Of the number of wills proved, and letters of administration granted, in the several jurisdictions respectively so empowered, 'in the years 1826, 1827, and 1828; and in cases where no wills have been proved, nor letters of administration granted, in any jurisdiction within the aforementioned period, the date of the last will proved, or letters of administration granted, to be stated:—Of the amount of fees, profits and emoluments of every description, which have been received by the judge, record-keeper, auditor of accounts, all deputies and assistant clerks, and all other persons in the Ecclesiastical and Manorial Courts in England (except the Prerogative Court of Canterbury), from 1825 to 1828, both inclusive:—And of the fees, profits, and emoluments of the registrars, deputy registrars, and proctors, on taking out probates and administrations, in the Ecclesiastical and Manorial Courts in England

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(except the Prerogative Court of Canterbury); stating the different charges and fees in detail.—He observed that the greater part of the returns he had reason to believe were in a state of forwardness, so that they might soon be presented.— Motion agreed to.

ADDRESS ON THE KING'S SPEECH.—
The Speakerthen read a copy of the Lords Commissioners Speech.
The Earl of Darlingtonrose to move an Address. Having just heard, in common with the other members of this honourable House, his Majesty's most gracious Speech, it becomes my duty to move an Address thereon, and to advert to the topics which that Speech embraces. Before, however, I enter on these topics in detail, and in the order in which they are presented to me, I will, as concisely as I can, explain the reason which has urged me to undertake that duty, and to place me in a situation as novel to myself as it may be deemed peculiar by many who now hear me, inasmuch as I appear, after being a member of the House for seventeen years, this night, for the first time, at this side of it, and during that period having taken very little share in the debates. [Spoke from behind the ministerial bench.] I feel it due to my character as an individual, and to the responsibility which I undertook as a member of parliament, to give my reasons for undertaking a task which might be so much better performed in other hands; and I am certain I shall meet the indulgence of the House, as I have hitherto but seldom trespassed on its notice since I entered parliament. After the commencement of the war, and after the country had been distracted by two parties called Whig and Tory; when I found that the one was urging on the war with as much violence as the other used in trying to repress and end it, and having been educated with a regard for liberal principles, and considering that those principles were best illustrated by the conduct of the Whigs, I joined that side of the House. I found, however, that the progress of time made great changes both in men and measures; and many of the topics which had been urged without notice by the Opposition were at last treated with attention by the Ministerial benches, and that many of the measures for which the Whigs had long contended began to be adopted by the other side of the House, and were carried
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into execution by the government [hear, hear] Though it has seldom been my lot to mark the proceedings of this House by other than a silent vote, considering that every topic of interest was taken up by persons better qualified to do them and the country justice than I was, still I have to assure you, Sir, that I was not a mere passive spectator, but that I paid a due regard to the progress of events, and to the circumstances which peculiarly marked the character of this Mouse. I saw a change gradually approaching. I felt that the course of events brought with it increased moderation and liberality; and I looked forward to the day when I might see accomplished that which I now see,—namely, the time when government would be entitled to demand the support of an independent member of parliament, and when it would be no reflection on his principles to extend that support. I say, Sir, that day has arrived when we are entitled to declare that the government of the country is one worthy of the confidence of the Sovereign and of the affections of the people, [hear, hear]—I repeat, Sir, that the administration is one in which every true friend of the country ' may rejoice; and when I look at its constitution, I find my hopes are established on just and reasonable grounds;—when I see at its head a man who, like the noble duke, is as distinguished for judgment and decision in the cabinet as he was for skill and triumph in the field—when I look on the bench below me and see my right hon. friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Peel), and consider all the public services he has rendered, and the measures which he brought forward in the course of last session for the good of the country— when I look at these men and at their colleagues—when I see how honourably and efficiently the cabinet is on every side composed, I say, Sir, that I have reason to indulge a confidence; and I say, considering all the circumstances of the country, in a time of distress like the present, I am justified in what I do, and that it is every man's duty to rally round the Throne and give to such a government the warmest aid and support, [hear] I now look upon the distinction of Whig and Tory as empty names, and, equally dreading the violence of both, I can with difficulty say which party I would wish to see predominant.—The government of the

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present day have shown that, in effect, the sounds of Whig and Tory are synonymous; and we see in them an administration without a party, or rather a Tory administration acting upon Whig principles. [loud cheers and some laughter] It is true that there are still many honourable gentlemen attached to the minute distinctions which are all that are left of the mighty differences which once marked the state of party in this House; and far be it from me to find fault with those who conscientiously retain those feelings. For myself, I declare that I now act on the same principles which always governed my parliamentary conduct; and, though I have hitherto confined myself almost to a silent vote, I solemnly declare I never had any other object in view than that of the general good of the country [hear]—and I feel myself entitled to support a government acting on that opinion, no matter of what set of men it may be composed, convinced that the country is to be served by measures not by men. [cheers]—It is, therefore, unnecessary for me to say that I have not been induced to come forward by any attraction which prevailed in a particular cabinet, but I support the administration in which I find a coincidence with those sentiments on which I have hitherto acted, and because I confide in it, and in a prime minister, who combines promptitude, judgment, and decision equal, if not superior, to any other who has ever been intrusted with power in this kingdom, [hear]—Having now made to the House a preliminary statement, which I consider equally due to it and to myself, I will shortly touch on the different topics which are submitted to us in the Speech, and which will be embraced in the Address. His Majesty begins by justly expressing his satisfaction that the war between Russia and the Porte has been brought to a conclusion, and then proceeds to announce that a plan has been agreed upon for the final settlement of the affairs of Greece. What this plan may be I shall not, at present, inquire—because I am of opinion that it would be not only impolitic but unnecessary to press for a disclosure of what has been promised at an early period. I shall, therefore, go no farther than to hope that the House will join with me in congratulating his Majesty and the country on the termination of hostilities between Russia and the Porte. The House will more
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readily join in this congratulation when they recollect how very difficult it is to extinguish the flame of war when it is once lighted, as well as the impossibility there is of being enabled to ascertain how far war may extend. I am extremely sorry that it has not been in his Majesty's power to give us information of a similar kind with respect to Portugal, for it would appear as if all hope of reconciliation between Don Pedro and Don Miguel were at an end. I must, at the same time, express my entire approval of the line of conduct which has been pursued by his Majesty's government, and in this I trust the House will unanimously join; for if this country were to have asserted the right of Donna Maria, we should have run the risk of embroiling ourselves in war and with foreign countries—a risk which, under all the circumstances, would have been by no means justifiable on our parts. We are, no doubt, bound to maintain our ancient alliance with the kingdom of Portugal, yet we cannot be by any means bound to support any one or other of the parties contending for its Crown, nor can it be in any manner incumbent upon us so to act. With regard to our diplomatic relations, I must observe that our commercial connections with Portugal are so very numerous and important, great injury must necessarily arise from their being suspended; and, therefore, this is a subject which calls imperatively, for immediate consideration, [hear] The next topic to which his Majesty points our attention is that of economy and retrenchment which his Majesty informs us will be put into execution, and a considerable reduction effected in the public expenditure, without impairing the efficiency of our naval or military establishments. This, I think, is as much as the most rigid economist can require or desire. The deficiency in the revenue is no doubt much to be lamented, yet I have every hope that it will not be near so great as was apprehended by some, and I cannot help feeling secure that the country will be able still to support efficient establishments; and at the same time to maintain the public credit, which it is the duty of the government to support inviolate, [hear] The next portion of the Speech acquaints us with the attention that has been bestowed upon the reforms in our Courts of Law, with regard to which his Majesty says, that "he has directed that measures shall be submitted

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for your deliberation, of which some are calculated, in the opinion of his Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the course of justice in different parts of the United Kingdom; and others appear to be necessary preliminaries to a revision of the practice and proceedings of the Superior Courts." There can be but one opinion on this head; it is a subject on which I cannot be supposed to be well informed, and I shall content myself with saying that, whatever alterations have been made, and whatever improvements have been introduced into our different institutions, for them the thanks of the country are eminently due to the right hon. Secretary for the Home Department. The Speech then proceeds to another fact, to which I shall very shortly refer—namely, that the exports of British produce and manufactures were greater in the year 1829 than at any former period. This proves the advantage of a system, of free trade, and is a subject gratifying to have brought before our eyes when distress is visible in the country. That great distress prevails I candidly admit and amongst all classes [hear]—and for it various causes may be assigned, and various opinions are entertained with respect to its origin; but whatever these may be, I fear they are beyond our power, and out of our control. However, it is a happiness to know that the country retains within herself the power of relief, and always will have it, from that energy which has rendered her remarkable above all the nations of the world. Temporary distress will recur in commercial countries, but time will relieve it; and I am the more inclined to this opinion with respect to England, since she has all the power of producing wealth—her ships, her warehouses, her superior machinery, still in her possession; and her general resources continue as great and unimpaired as ever. I see no cause for despondency. The greater part of our present distress has arisen, in my opinion, from the mischief of overtrading, which induced a production greater than the greatest possible demand. This, and an increased population in the manufacturing districts, combined with the use of machinery, are in my mind sufficient to cause a distress greater even than that which prevails at present, [hear] —Although the improvement in our export trade has been so great, still, with regard to our home consumption, it is to
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be regretted that there exists a great stagnation; the agricultural interest is also distressed, and this may be one of the causes, if not the chief one, of that stagnation. For as long as the price of agricultural produce is low, the farmers, our greatest and best consumers, will not be able to purchase from the manufacturers. They have no interests that militate the one against the other; and I will always maintain that the interests and the prosperity of agriculture and manufactures coincide and depend upon one another.—I have now touched upon all the topics in the Speech from the Throne, and upon some, probably, at too great length; but if I have committed any mistake, or been guilty of any omission, the House will, I trust, accept my inexperience as an apology; and if, in the course of my observations, any unguarded expression may have dropped from me, they will, I hope, attribute it to the same cause [hear]—I hope I shall enjoy the good fortune of having the House unanimous in support of the Address which I shall now have the honour to propose.—The noble lord then moved that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty:—
"To return to his Majesty our humble thanks for the gracious Speech which his Majesty has directed to be delivered by the Lords Commissioners.—To assure his Majesty, that we have heard with high gratification that his Majesty receives from all Foreign Powers the strongest assurances of their desire to maintain and cultivate the most friendly relations with this Country; and that we participate in the satisfaction expressed by his Majesty, that the war between Russia and the Ottoman Porte has been brought to a conclusion.
"To thank his Majesty for acquainting us that his efforts to accomplish the main objects of the Treaty of the 6th July 1827 have been unremitted; and to express to his Majesty our acknowledgments for the assurance that his Majesty, having recently concerted with his Allies measures for the pacification and final settlement of Greece, trusts that he shall be enabled, at an early period, to communicate to us the particulars of this arrangement, with such information as may explain the course which his Majesty has pursued throughout the progress of these important transactions.
"To assure his Majesty that we concur with his Majesty in lamenting that he is

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unable to announce to us the prospect of a reconciliation between the Princes of the House of Braganza, and to thank his Majesty for the intimation that, although his Majesty has not yet deemed it expedient to re-establish upon their ancient footing his Majesty's diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of Portugal, the numerous embarrassments arising from the continued interruption of these relations increase his Majesty's desire to effect the termination of so serious an evil.
"To return our acknowledgments to his Majesty for having directed the estimates for the current year to be laid before us, and for the assurance that they have been framed with every attention to economy, and to express to his Majesty our high gratification at learning that his Majesty has been enabled to make a considerable reduction in the amount of the Public Expenditure, without impairing the efficiency of our Naval or Military Establishments.
"To assure his Majesty, that we derive sincere satisfaction from the information that, although the National Income during the last year has not attained the full amount at which it had been estimated, the diminution is not such as to cause any doubt as to the future prosperity of the Revenue.
"To acknowledge his Majesty's goodness in having of late earnestly directed his attention to various important considerations connected with improvements in the general administration of the Law, and in having commanded that measures shall be submitted for our deliberation, of which some are calculated, in the opinions of his Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the course of justice in different parts of the United Kingdom, and others appear to be necessary preliminaries to a revision of the practice and proceedings of the Superior Courts; and to assure his Majesty that we will justify the confidence which his Majesty is pleased to repose in us, by giving our best attention and assistance to subjects of such deep and lasting interest to the well-being of his people.
"To express to his Majesty our satisfaction at learning that the Export in the last year of British Produce and Manufactures has exceeded that of any former year—and our sincere participation in the concern felt by his Majesty, that, notwithstanding this indication of active commerce, distress should prevail among the
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agricultural and manufacturing classes in some parts of the United Kingdom.
"Cordially to acknowledge his Majesty's goodness in assuring us that it would be most gratifying to the paternal feelings of his Majesty to be enabled to propose for our consideration measures calculated to remove the difficulties of any portion of his subjects, and at the same time compatible with the general and permanent interests of his People; and, humbly participating with his Majesty in a deep solicitude for those interests, to express our concurrence in the necessity of acting with extreme caution in reference to this important subject.
"To assure his Majesty that we will not fail to assign due weight to the effect of unfavourable seasons, and to the operation of other causes which are beyond the reach of Legislative control or remedy.
"That we are deeply sensible of the paramount importance of maintaining inviolate the Public Credit, and of thus upholding the high character and the permanent welfare of the Country."
Mr. Ward—I rise for the purpose of seconding the motion of the noble lord. Recollecting that many of the ablest and best men whom this country ever claimed as her sons have stood upon the spot which I now occupy for the purpose of recommending by their eloquence the various motions for addresses from time to time proposed, I must say, in my own excuse, that it is the partiality of others, and not any presumption of mine, that has selected me for this task. [hear]—Although those who preceded me well discharged their trust, yet I cannot admit that any one amongst them was ever animated by a warmer desire faithfully to discharge his duty than I am; nor am I deterred from coming forward because the period at which the part has been allotted to me is one of difficulty and distress. [hear, hear] This ought rather to stimulate every hon. member to greater exertions; and the people should feel and know that their representatives were at their posts, and were determined to do all in their power for the country's relief. We are required to make a suitable acknowledgment for the gracious Speech on our assembling; and, with the permission of the House, I will consider some of the topics which that Speech has brought under our consideration. The first amongst these is peace. This is the

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fifteenth year during which that blessing has been continued to us; but I fear that there are so many gentlemen who recollect the high prices and great profits attendant upon the war, that there are many persons who are not fully convinced of the value of that unrivalled blessing—peace. But, notwithstanding this, it is my warm hope, and I will express my strongest wish, that the noble duke now at the head of the administration will maintain to the longest moment in his power that peace, [hear, hear] There was a time when a military chief could issue from his camp a declaration that the House of Braganza had ceased to reign, or that a northern power was no longer to exist. He possessed the power to enforce his will, and he disregarded the ties, and set at nought the rights, of nations. We now, however, live in happier times; and it is pleasing to know that even those countries lately visited by military aggression still possess their independence. I am confident that all who were on the Finance Committee are quite convinced that the government are anxious to fix the expenditure for the services of the country on the lowest possible scale; and it is agreeable to know this at a time when there is a falling-off in the revenue. I lament that, with respect to our debt, there has not been a greater reduction, for to that reduction, of interest or otherwise, must the people mainly look for a diminution of their burthens. [hear, hear] — It is lamentable that those who were once our enemies, and who may be so again (though I sincerely hope not for a long time to come,) that France and America should have in this respect gone so far before us. The Sinking-fund of France is larger than that in this country, although their debt is not more than one-fourth of ours. America will have no debt in 1834; and if no exertions are made to reduce our debt, I fear we may be overtaken by a war when it may be most inconvenient for us to be engaged in one. [hear] The government must look boldly and resolutely at our situation to avert such an evil. The present is, however, a period favourable for this purpose, and I have hopes that the chancellor of the Exchequer will not allow it to pass without some measure for the reduction of the interest on our national debt. Nearly a century ago a predecessor of mine, sir John Barnard, pressed the chancellor of the Exchequer of that day to do the re-
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verse of what I now ask, in order that the rate of interest on private transactions might be increased; but now it is different, as the government pays more than is required in private concerns. The next subject to which I shall allude is the distress that weighs upon our agricultural and manufacturing classes. I hope I am the last man who would seek to undervalue the real state of affairs, and I believe that distress of an extraordinary character does really exist. [hear] It is not for us to content ourselves with the mere statement of the fact, but it is our duty to see whether a remedy can be found, [loud cheers] —If we cannot find any remedies of real utility, let us not attempt to delude the people by holding out to their imagination projects which are impracticable. One remedy proposed for agricultural distress —namely, the repeal of the malt duty — would, no doubt, be good for the producers of barley, but it would be of no service to those engaged in other pursuits. The distress is, I know, attributed by many to the change in the currency. Many there are who overlook the difference between the change in the currency generally, and the change produced by parliamentary enactments. In 1819 a great change was effected; it was necessary that the country should have some standard of value, and in. effecting that object the parliament was, in my opinion, fully justified; if they did go a step too far, still every allowance ought to be made for those who had brought forward and supported the measure. I had my own share in it, and I am ready to bear my part of the responsibility. In addition, it should be recollected that there was at that time a great falling-off in the produce of the mines. Austria had also made a change in her currency, so likewise did Russia: and another great mischief, in the eyes of those who wish the currency put upon the old footing, is to be charged to the philanthropy of this honourable House; for, in consequence of the vast numbers of forgeries, and the penalties inflicted upon the offenders, the one and two pound notes were withdrawn. More gold then became requisite. With respect to the distress of the agricultural interests, I am of opinion that it is chiefly and principally attributable not to the, change in the currency, but to two successive bad harvests. Probably there were a million a quarters of corn deficient in

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each of the two last years, at least importations to that extent were requisite. Agricultural distress, too, differs from commercial or any other that may prevail in a nation, because in agricultural loss it is not simply the impairing of property, but its total destruction. Although, then, I admit the existence of distress, yet there is no one more sure than I am that it will be relieved by natural causes. The elasticity of our resources has been so often proved, that there is no reason to despair now more than when we came out triumphant from contests in which Europe was leagued against us. If these views are erroneous, I must expect the chastening hand of correction; if not, I hope the House will be unanimous in voting the Address which I have the honour to support. [cheers]
The Speakerthen read the Motion for an Address.
Sir Edward Knatchbull.—If, Sir, on the present occasion, I could permit myself to be influenced by personal considerations, I should willingly have adopted the course pursued by me for several years, and suffer the Address to pass without observation. In applying myself to the subject it must be obvious, and I confess it, that I labour under extreme difficulty. It is a very short time since I have been informed of the topics it embraces, and therefore my difficulty becomes the greater still, either in the application of my argument, or in the preparation of an amendment. It is true I might have taken the course once recommended by an hon. member in this House; I might move the adjournment of the debate until to-morrow, so as to have time to form such an Address as I could more willingly offer to your consideration. But I do not think that such a course would be in accordance with the wish or the usage of the House, and I shall not adopt it. I shall follow the Speech as well as I can, and make such observations as suggest themselves. But, before I move the amendment with which I mean to conclude, I must make one or two observations upon what has fallen from the noble lord and the hon. member opposite, the mover and seconder of the Address. If the noble Lord has found it necessary to apologize for the part he has taken, I have no fault to find with him; but, if an apology were necessary, he has made it in the best way possible, and I leave the government the benefit of the explanation. I will also say
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at once, that, if the Address were at all in unison with the sentiments uttered by the hon. members, very little difference of opinion could exist between us. The noble lord has said that the distress is general, and the hon. gentleman has described it as of an extraordinary character. But does the Speech say this? Does even the Address contain a syllable of this? No, they only state that it exists in some places; where then is there an expression of this extraordinary character and this generality? With respect to the different topics of the Address, it commences by announcing that the war between Russia and Turkey is concluded, and calls upon us to congratulate his Majesty on the event. I am ready to do so, and the more ready because the Speech says not a word as to the mode or the manner in which that conclusion was effected. The next point is the pacification of Greece. On that I shall say nothing more than that I entertain hopes similar to those of the hon. gentleman opposite, that every thing has been done for the best interests of the country, and if the settlement be attended with a lessening of expense to the country, I shall most heartily rejoice. I lament the situation in which we are placed as respects Portugal; and why Don Miguel, who is in possession of the throne, has not been acknowledged as he ought to be, and as he will be, appears most inexplicable. I know that observations have been made in this House against the policy of doing so, but that Don Miguel will be acknowledged I have not the slightest doubt. The next topic is, that the estimates will be prepared with the strictest view to economy, and I am very willing to believe this. Then follows the point relative to the reform of our courts of law; and in all that has been said on this subject I fully agree. I am not presumptuous enough to suppose that I could render any service, but on this subject shall dismiss every partial and every political consideration, and support improvement in this as in every other great question, let the man who proposes it be who he may. No matter into whose hands the power may fall, only let them administer matters faithfully, honourably, and economically, and the government shall have my support. The next point, and one which has been dwelt upon, is the great increase in our exports, but I should have much wished to hear that this was a

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good index of our prosperity. May not this increase have arisen from what has been complained of—namely, overtrading? I only wish that it would enable the chancellor of the Exchequer to come down, and take off part of our burthens; then, indeed, I could believe it was beneficial. The next topic is that of the distress, and upon this point I shall examine the Speech, which I have a right to assume to be the Speech of the ministers, and for which they must be responsible.
Mr. Ward.—No, no.
Sir E. Knatchbull.—Do I hear my hon. friend aright? Does my hon. friend mean to controvert a point which has been settled for now more than a century past, that his Majesty's Speech should be considered as that of his ministers?
Mr. Ward.—I had no such intention: I misunderstood my hon. friend. I supposed that my hon. friend intended to consider my speech as that of ministers. Now ministers were not at all responsible for what I may have said, [a laugh]
Sir E. Knatchbull.—All I say, and all I want the attention of the House to, is the simple fact, that the Speech says, in plain terms, that distress exists in "some" places. If I were in want of any explanation I need only refer to the speeches of the mover and seconder of the Address. They say that the distress is general and extraordinary. That is the sole point of difference; and since I heard the Speech I have marvelled how such language could have found its way into the Speech, or how they could make statements so very different from the Address proposed. If ministers said, they would do every thing that wisdom and sagacity and energy could suggest for the relief of the people, then I should agree with them; it would have been unnecessary for me to propose any amendment. If I am asked what evidence have I that distress exists, I will say that I see it and feel it in my own part of the country; and if I am asked for more, I will put the question to every hon. member in the House, and he will say the same of the district which he represents. I know that the distress is not so great in some places as in others, but the question is—is it not universal? We are asked on this important day—perhaps the most important we have ever witnessed—to approach his Majesty with a declaration containing something very like falsehood [hear]. I will not for a moment suppose, or have it imagined,
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that I can think the mover or seconder influenced by any motive or feeling of such a description. But I ask—is the distress general or not? I appeal again to every authority, and I implore gentlemen to consider the vote they are asked to come to this night. I shall avoid, on the present occasion, saying anything as to the remedy. I shall not say a word upon the Malt Tax, because I know a difference of opinion exists; nor shall I allude to the currency for the same reason; they will be discussed hereafter. I shall state my opinion honestly, and all I ask is, that the House will respect and express the simple, naked truth [hear]—That which is wrong I am ready to correct, but I am cautious lest, in endeavouring to amend, I may suddenly and unwillingly find myself linked to those whose object is, to pull down and destroy. I must apologize for the length of time I have occupied, and beg leave to propose an amendment to be made to the question, by inserting, after the words "any former year" the words, "But that we lament the existence of that distress which his Majesty informs us prevails in some places:—We are, however, in the faithful discharge of our duty, constrained to declare to his Majesty cur opinion that this distress is not confined, as his Majesty has been advised, to some particular places, but that it is general among all the productive interests of the country, which are severely suffering from its pressure:—We beg to assure his Majesty, that we will adopt the caution his Majesty has recommended, in the consideration of such measures as may be proposed to us, and that our earnest endeavours shall be directed to relieve the country from its present difficulties."
The Marquis of Blandfordseconded the amendment. He would not detain the House long; and he thought it would be well if hon. Members in their speeches bore in mind what Jefferson* said of Washington and Franklin, namely, that they never spoke longer at a time than ten minutes, and yet by their counsels
* "I served with General Washington in the Legislature of Virginia, before the Revolution, and during it with Dr. Franklin in Congress. I never heard either of them speak ten minutes at a time, nor to any but main points, which was to decide the question. They laid their shoulders to the great point, knowing that the little ones would follow ofthemselves."—Jefferson's Memoirs and Correspondence, vol. i., p. 50.

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they greatly benefitted their country. He seized this early opportunity of declaring in his place, as one of the representatives of the people, his firm conviction that the circumstances of the country were such that it was impossible to return to a sound and healthy state, until such a diminution of taxes should take place as would enable the productive industry of the country to contend with low prices. Most decided, effective, and immediate measures must be resorted to. No petty half measures would restore the country to its former state of existence; no palliatives would now restore us—he would not say to a state of prosperity, but—to a state of healthful existence; the most vigorous measures were necessary for the accomplishment of this great purpose. It could not be done by the present House of Commons, in which the people had little confidence, and for which they were beginning to entertain less respect. The seeds of dissatisfaction, discontent, and disgust, had been sown; and it would be in vain to attempt to check their growth otherwise than by the speedy and temperate application of the first and genuine principles of the Constitution. He seconded the motion of his hon. friend the member for Kent; and after his amendment should have been disposed of, he had one of his own to propose, [hear and a laugh]
Sir John Brydges.—He did not rise to detain the House by discussing in detail the various topics that had been introduced into the speech of the noble Lord who moved the Address, and of the hon. member who seconded it. He concurred in what had fallen from them, and he approved of the Address. At that time, however, he held it to be insufficient to concur in silence. The parliament was now assembled at a crisis when unexampled distress pervaded every interest of the country, whether it was agricultural, commercial, or trading, and every nerve must be strained to alleviate it. However insignificant his powers might be, his constituents had intrusted him with a seat in the great council of the nation, to uphold their rights, and to maintain the dearest interests of the country; and by the blessing of God he would do his best not to disappoint them. If this trust had not been confided to him, it would have been conferred on some one else, more able, perhaps, but, he was confident, not more willing to do his duty by them. He
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should not do so, if he did not take that opportunity, with great deference, to endeavour to impress, however feebly, upon the assembly, the imperative necessity that at that moment existed for every man to do his duty—to employ his talents and his time, in conjunction with his fellow-representatives, to rescue the country from the perils that surrounded it—to sink every selfish consideration, and unitedly to put their shoulders to the wheel— to lay aside all party feeling, and to know no other interest than the public good. The country called upon them, and looked up to them for relief. Great as were our difficulties, appalling as was our debt, let it not be said we cannot overcome them. He pitied the pusillanimity that prompted such a feeling; it was dastardly. True to itself and united, what could not England accomplish? If we did our duty by our constituents, they would do theirs by us. They had already done so, and were prepared to do so again, provided they saw that their representatives were in earnest to save their country. In a word, therefore, let them, in the present Session, be faithfully responsive to the urgent calls of a high-minded, high-principled, and generous people, who anxiously looked up to them to relieve their distress;— to them, whose efforts, he was sure, would be sanctioned, encouraged, and promoted by those ministers, to whose guidance his Majesty had committed the reins of government.
Mr. Western, was most astonished at that part of the Speech which described the distress to exist in some parts of the country only, and to be, in fact, merely partial and temporary. The noble duke and his Majesty's ministers must be very much misinformed with respect to the state of the country, and totally ignorant of the fact, that the people of every part of the country were placed in a condition such as they had never known before. The whole of the productive classes of the community, labourers as well as manufacturers, were now enduring a state of severe suffering and misery such as they had never experienced before, at any period of our history. It had been said the distress was partial and temporary. He denied that it could be called so. The people were engaged in a continuity of struggles, which they had supported with firmness for the last fourteen years; but their strength was now nearly exhausted, and

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their patience began to desert them. He would ask, if there was a member in the House who could deny the existence of this distress? And how, he would ask further, had it been produced? Why, by a succession of the most mischievous measures that ever were devised for the destruction of a nation. Notwithstanding the waste and extravagance of an impolitic war, to which he had during the whole of his life been opposed, the country was left at its close in a state of unexampled power and prosperity, and able to discharge its obligations, and with a people contented and flourishing". From that moment, however, the government had, by a system of the most vicious interference, destroyed the sources of their advantages, and had adopted measures which operated to double the taxes and all obligations. Against the evils created by this interference they had struggled on; but, he repeated, they were now exhausted, and unless a change of measures took place, they must look forward to one of the most terrible and frightful convulsions this country had ever sustained. The eyes of every class of the community were fixed on the government; and yet his majesty's ministers, with an indifference or an ignorance which was scarcely credible, had placed their distresses, as it were, in a parenthesis; [laugh and hear, hear] and passed them over with a levity which was disgusting, and which, he was sure, must prove galling to the feelings of the sufferers. He was willing to support the Amendment—not because it came up to his views, for, in his opinion, it but very feebly expressed the sentiments which ought to animate that House on such a subject—but he was willing to mark, in any manner, his disapprobation of, and dissent from, the terms of the Speech. If he were to frame an Address, it should be to pledge the House to appoint a committee to inquire into the causes of the distress; [hear, hear, hear] and to endeavour to ascertain how it was that a people, possessed of, as a noble mover of the Address had observed, all the elements of power, should, in the course of a few years have become so wretched, crippled, and exhausted. They still had the power, they still possessed the means of regeneration; they had spirit, energy, enterprise, every thing which could conduce to prosperity, were it not for heavy taxation, and that surreptitious enhancement
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of the currency which pressed on the industrious classes, and wrung from the sweat of the brows more than twice the amount which they had formerly been compelled to pay. He begged the House, however, to recollect that the people were now exhausted; and, worse than all, that their feelings, from the severe pressure of distress, were undergoing a most dangerous change. Their respect for authority was changing fast for contempt. No man could shut his eyes to the nature and effect of the expressions which were now heard from the body of the people. No man could listen to the exclamations of distress which were heard from every part of the country, without lamenting the kind of milk-and-water language in which his Majesty had been advised to advert to that distress; although the language of the amendment did not come up to his idea of the sentiments which ought to inspire the members of that House on such a subject, and which they ought to express, yet, for the reasons he had stated, he was willing to give it his support.
Mr. Protheroesaid, he addressed the House, at that early stage of the debate, with unfeigned diffidence of his power to do justice to the subject. During the three sessions that he had enjoyed the honour to occupy a seat in the House, he had, on all occasions, preferred trusting to the language of others for the development of those measures, in the propriety of which he was willing to concur; but he thought the time was now arrived when the exertions of honesty and good intention were more requisite than the display of the greatest oratorical powers, and with that impression he ventured most humbly to offer himself thus early to their notice. That House had long been the subject of attack from men of a certain class and holding particular opinions; but it was now obvious that the opinions respecting its integrity and capacity were not confined to these persons, but that attacks the most violent, and urged in language the most vehement, were to be heard from quarters in which they had never before heard any thing but praise and approbation; from quarters which had been in the habit of lauding, indiscriminately, every act of authority and power, no matter in whose hands that power was reposed. The hollow murmur of discontent now approached the House from all quarters; and none had so accurately describe-

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ed the dreadful state of the country as the hon. member for Essex (Mr. Western). But so remarkable were the changes of opinions, that it was not long since he had read in a periodical publication remarkable for its devotion to power, a series of attacks on the members of that House, in which they were declared not only destitute of wisdom, but of every degree of firmness, integrity, or intelligence which would be required for the conduct of public affairs. He did not, in adverting to the nature of this language, intend to advise his Majesty's Attorney-general, whom he saw in his place, to prosecute the author or the editor of this publication, for using language calculated to bring the House and the government into contempt, but he wished to draw from it the conclusion, that the complaints against its constitution extended now to a very different class of society; that it had excited the attention and the condemnation of men who formerly regarded it with indifference or approbation, and that those who were interested in preserving the respect of the people should, by a timely and temperate reform, show their sense of the propriety of the remonstrances of those state physicians, [hear] Adverting to the language of the Address, he must express his conviction that it was a deliberate insult to the people. Those who advised it might have ascertained, with the slightest inquiry, if they were ignorant of the fact, that the distress was general, and he might add, universal; and he was satisfied that the remedy for that distress was not to be obtained from the exertions of any party within or without the walls of the House. The sentiments he uttered did not proceed from the spirit of party. He did not think that the country looked for its advocates amongst men of party feeling. It desired rather the exertion of humble abilities, fairly and honestly directed, than the aid of brilliant talents, tainted by feelings of party or ambition. He had drawn up the outline of an Amendment, which he had intended to submit to their consideration. It stated, in plain language, the nature of the distress, and pointed out the course which, in his humble opinion, ought to be adopted in the inquiries with respect to the remedy. He was confident, indeed, that the Speech did not, under the present circumstances, realize the expectations of the people; and the noble lord, whose duty it was to
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move the Address, must have felt himself as much crippled in his language, by its terms, as the dress in which custom required he should appear on such occasions must constrain the natural movements of his body.* In his opinion, the Address ought to have alluded to the melancholy fact, that the rent of the farmer was now paid solely out of his capital, and that trade of every kind, except that in money, was carried on without the slightest profit to the adventurer. He had taken leave to defend himself from the imputation of having been guilty of any act of taciturnity or uncourteousness in not communicating his intention to those members with whom he had been in the habit of acting during the time he occupied a seat in that House. The truth was, that there prevailed such a dissimilarity of opinions on all great political questions on that side of the House, that he scarcely knew to whom he should address himself. So many different parties were they divided into, that the House seemed to be more like a nursery of young statesmen than a collection of established politicians; and it was a matter of serious question whether the greater portion of the members on that (the Opposition) side of the House could be considered ministerial men or oppositionists. Delicacy, therefore, with regard to some, and ignorance with respect to the opinions of others, had forced him to rise thus early, and offer to the attention of the House an amendment, which, although it might be considered rather long, contained nothing but a plain statement of well-known facts. He could not move it, he was aware, till the amendment already proposed was disposed of; but perhaps the House would pardon him if he concluded his speech with reading it. [hear] The hon. member then read the following Amendment.
"That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, to express to his Majesty the thanks of this House for his Majesty's most gracious Speech; and respectfully to inform his Majesty, that being assembled with the deepest impression of the extraordinary duties imposed on us by the unexampled difficulties and dangers of the country, we will direct our instant and earnest attention to those measures best
* The noble Lord was dressed in his military uniform; the custom being usually observed for the appointed mover and seconder of the Address to appear in full court dresses.

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calculated to maintain the dignity and stability of his Majesty's Throne, and to restore this nation to its ancient prosperity and happiness. To assure his Majesty of our undiminished attachment to his sacred person, and of our grateful conviction of his paternal feelings for the sufferings of his subjects; relying upon which, we consider it our first duty to lay before his Majesty a correct representation of the actual state of the country, and of all its leading interests, not concealing those wrongs and grievances which, with the assistance of a faithful parliament, his Majesty will delight to redress.
"To represent to his Majesty, that the measures recommended by his ministers, and adopted by parliament, have failed to restore the country, or to mitigate the calamities under which it is sinking.
"That the tendency of the present political, financial, and ecclesiastical systems, is to accumulate, in few hands, enormous masses of property, leaving the middle classes struggling to support a precarious credit, and the lower, in a degrading dependence for daily food.
"That neither the landowner nor the farmer has been enriched by the Corn Laws, while the bread of the poor is made dear, and the labourer is stinted in his hire.
"That the merchant, the shipowner, the manufacturer, the tradesman, are proceeding in hopeless efforts of industry, without remuneration, notwithstanding the extraordinary inventions of British science and ingenuity, and the increasing demands of extensive countries newly-opened to our trade.
"That the peasantry and operative mechanics, with wages or pay barely adequate to the support of life, are hastening to a state of universal pauperism, holding out temptations to the disregard and breach of laws that no longer afford security to property.
"That the pleasures of the rich are purchased by the demoralization of the poor, under the administration of Game-laws, originating in ages of feudal oppression, and pertinaciously adhered to and increased in severity by selfish legislation, whereby the prisons of the country are filled for offences not associated in the feelings of the people with moral guilt or delinquency.
"That by an ill-proportioned system of duties, having no reference but to the supply of a needy Exchequer, the poorer classes are deprived of the wholesome and
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nutritious drink of their forefathers, and are driven to the use of ardent spirits, alike destructive to their health and morals.
"That the nation is bowed down by a weight of taxation, which has been immoderately increased by laws affecting a change in the currency, made without a due consideration of the situation of the country, so that it is utterly unable to support the burthen.
"That it is impossible for the people to view, without disgust, the mockery of their distress, by a wasteful, blundering, and jobbing expenditure of the public money, in the erection of palaces and public buildings in the metropolis, alike devoid of taste and utility.
"That the people have a right to complain of the indecent and unjust continuance in undiminished amount, of various grants, pensions, salaries, and allowances which had been fixed or raised during the suspension of cash payments, upon the express plea and justification of the depreciation in value of money.
"That we receive with grateful satisfaction, his Majesty's assurance, that the reformation of the administration of the laws has occupied his Majesty's attentive consideration; and that we will devote our earnest attention to the communications his Majesty may direct to be made on these matters.
"That the tithe system (at all times an obnoxious and unpopular mode of providing for the clergy) is at this season of agricultural distress peculiarly galling in its operation, while the unequal distribution of the revenues of the church of England and Ireland, and the inadequate provision for those who perform its most active duties, are viewed with serious concern by the friends of the establishment, and afford just cause of scandal to its enemies.
"That the colonial interests of the country are plunged in a state of equal depression and suffering, the prices obtained for the produce of our colonies affording in general no profit in return for the capital, the labour, and the anxiety attending its cultivation.
"In acknowledging to his Majesty our conviction, that a state of national suffering and abuses so great and so general, after a long period of profound peace, and amidst so many elements of political prosperity, cannot have been produced without fundamental errors in legislation and. government.

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"Finally, to assure his Majesty that, although we cannot but feel how uncertain must be all dependence upon the acts of a Legislature, which does not and cannot as now constituted adequately represent the talents, the sentiments, and the wishes of the country, yet we will not fail, while maintaining the integrity of our admired Constitution, to consult in all our deliberations the spirit of an enlightened age, and the just petitions of the people, by decided retrenchment of expense, large reduction of taxation, and by a needful reform, commencing with our own House."
Mr. Ald. Waithmansaid, he had never been better pleased with any speech than with that of the hon. member who had just sat down. He trusted that the hon. baronet who moved the first amendment would withdraw it in favour of that just proposed, which seemed more fully to express what he trusted was the sense of the House, because it was much nearer the truth. Feeling so strongly as he did on the present occasion, he would give his hearty concurrence to any and every amendment which had for its object an inquiry into the existing distress. He must confess that, looking to the extreme distress of the country, he expected more from the royal Speech on the present occasion than he usually did on similar ones; but looking at the distress of the country, knowing that it was not confined to any particular place, he was surprised at the paragraph in the King's Speech. The paragraph about economy might be taken from every King's Speech during the last four years. The year 1826 was one of great calamity, so was the following-year, yet we were always assured that a system of the greatest economy would be observed. As to the noble duke at the head of the government, he knew of no individual in whom he could sooner place confidence; but, after past experience, he felt it impossible to place confidence in any man. In the year 1817 we were assured of a plan of strict economy, afterwards our army was reduced, and in the next year an increase took place. After this, could the House place confidence in what was stated by ministers? He knew from experience that it was impossible for a member of that House to place confidence in any ministers without its interfering with the strict performance of his duty. The royal Speech stated, that our exports had increased. The same thing was stated last year, and
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on many former years. It was evident that the official value of our exports had latterly increased, but it was equally evident that there was no profitable return for them; otherwise there would be larger imports. The fact was, the "real" value of our exports had decreased, as he had shown last year*; and as he would make still more clear to every man in the House and out of it, on a future evening. The public distress had been augmenting from year to year, until it had reached a point where it was past further endurance. Would any man stand up in his place and declare on his honour that the distress was confined merely to particular parts of the country? He was surprised that the hon. seconder of the Address had not made more particular allusion to the great body of traders in the city of London. The distress of that class was extreme. Their stocks had in general suffered a depreciation of 40 per cent. Their interests were not so fully represented in that House as those of other classes. The fact was, that the distress was not confined to any particular class, the great body of the people were equally distressed. The agriculturists undoubtedly, formed a great and important branch; but that portion of the community was not the only one that was now suffering. The distress equally affected the mercantile and manufacturing classes. He was much surprised, when an hon. member, not now in his place, brought forward a motion for inquiring into the distressed state of the country; he was, he confessed, surprised on that occasion, and he made the observation "more in sorrow than in anger," that the agriculturists did not exert themselves. But those gentlemen had now come to their senses—the danger had overtaken them—it was at their own door —and they stood forward boldly, honourably, and in a manner worthy of the aristocracy of the country. They, he was sure, could make an impression on that House and on the government. They had only to say, "This must be done," and it certainly would be done. They were told that no legislative measure could do any good—they were desired to trust in Providence—to trust, in short, to any thing but themselves. If this advice were correct, what was the use of their meeting together? It would be better to have no parliament
*Hansard's Parl. Deb., v. xxi., p. 1201.

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at all, rather than to meet for no purpose. He would say, if they were in such a hopeless situation, that the people were misrepresented—that they were misgoverned—and that the waste of the public wealth noticed in the amendment was perfectly true. [hear, hear] Such was really the present state of things; and if they looked back at what occurred for a series of years, and acted justly and fairly, there would then be some chance of reformation. If the things which he had described had happened in spite of their legislative measures,—in spite of their liberal policy, as it was called,—and if those measures were really founded in wisdom, there was no hope of salvation. But they had come to that pass, that they could not avoid doing something. He could not state the remedies that ought to be resorted to; but this he knew, that they must either bring up the prices to a level with the taxation, or bring down the taxation to a level with the prices. [hear] If parliament did not adopt one or other of these plans, he was as certain as that he stood there, that he should live to witness—and at his time of life he could not expect to see many years—a scene of dreadful confusion in this country. [hear] In stating his opinions, he was actuated by no ill feeling towards any party or set of men. He had nothing to hope or to expect from any party. He stood there merely to do his duty; and however unworthily placed in that House as one of the representatives of the metropolis of the British empire, he should betray his trust if he did not openly state his opinion. Therefore he entreated the House to forego all private and personal feeling, and to look to the general state of the country, every part of which was suffering under the most dreadful distress. [hear] To the original Address he could not agree, containing as it did, a palpable falsehood as to the distresses of the country.
Mr. E. Davenportsaid, many very material amendments ought to be added to the Address proposed by the noble lord. The first amendment ought to be a declaration of the expediency of getting rid of that immense military force which, in times of peace, their ancestors considered as an unconstitutional incumbrance, and which only enabled ministers to hold out bribes for the support of members of Parliament. The second obvious amendment was one which the circumstances of the country naturally suggested—namely, that if they
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had the capacity, they should pledge themselves to his Majesty to call the public servants to account, and to bring those to condign punishment who had betrayed their trust; and, with a view to their own emolument, continued to receive unreduced salaries to the present hour. As to the Speech which he had heard read, he thought he should be able to explain some portions of it which seemed to strike with surprise several hon. members who had spoken before him. In the first place, however, he begged leave to express his extreme concern at that part of the Speech which related to our diplomatic relations with Portugal. His view of that part of the Speech was different from that of the hon. baronet who moved the amendment; for he heard with great concern that his Majesty ever meant to conciliate a man whose conduct ought to put him out of the pale of the sovereigns of Europe. He should, if this were the proper time, dilate farther on this subject; but he would only say at present, that when the pressure of affairs enabled them to consider this question, he would bring before the House the subject of our relations with Portugal; and he would show on that day, that the existence of this monster (for so he would call him) on the throne of Portugal, was mainly owing to this country. The Speech declared, that the distress in the country was merely partial. This seemed to puzzle several gentlemen. But it was not difficult to show why that distress, which they all knew to be general, appeared to ministers to be only partial. The fact was, that amongst the land-owners of this country, there was a strong indisposition to do any thing that might hazard their losing the patronage of government. They would, he believed, rather encounter ruin than come forward and fairly declare the desperate condition in which landed property was. They did not like to state the fact plainly, lest they might thereby interfere with the prospects of the rising generation: that was the reason why they did not like to come forward, as they ought, to that House to seek redress. But what was the state of the gentry of England? Why, every man, whether a gentleman or a clergyman, [laughter] wished to make all the males of his family gentlemen, and this could only be done by placing them in the different professions. The attempt to attain that object had changed the once independent gentlemen of England, and

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turned them into courtiers. Lord Bacon had said, "A country overcharged with taxes cannot be thriving;" and he also observed, "Let any country that wishes to be great, not allow the nobility and gentry to increase too fast, for where the nobility and gentry are extremely numerous, the people will be base." This government seemed to proceed on a principle different from that. A body of ministers, abler, he supposed, than lord Bacon, had contrived, in the eighteen years during which his present majesty had been in power, to make no fewer than sixty peers; and he was informed by an individual who was conversant in these matters, that at the period of the Union a majority of the other House did not sit by hereditary descent. When they considered these points, it was not wonderful that the country gentlemen had not complained either to this or to the other House of parliament. The next point in the Speech related to the unfavourableness of the seasons. But would that account for all the distress? Would it account for a fall of thirty per cent in the price of cattle? Would it account for a reduction of thirty per cent in the value of cheese? Would it account for the fall in the price of every thing in the shop and in the warehouse? The next expression would be exceedingly consolatory, if we could attach the slightest authority to it. The expression to which he alluded was, that the distress was not of a permanent character. Now, he thought he could satisfy the House that the assertion was not worth one farthing. In 1828, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer was told of the danger that would ensue from the withdrawal of several millions of one-pound notes, he stated their amount at about 2,250,000 l.—a statement which was entirely erroneous. An individual had written to him on the subject, and stated that, on examination, he found that four-fifths of those notes had been out three years, and considerably above one-half of them had been out seven years. He therefore inferred that the amount was 7,000,000 l. or 8,000,000 l. instead of 2,250,000 l. And further, he must argue, that the increased issue of 5l. notes did not make up for the deficiency thus created, and that the issue of sovereigns was not likely to increase a circulation the basis of which was credit. As to the boast so often made in that House with reference to the extent of our exports, its
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fallacy had been clearly shown by the hon. alderman below him, particularly in the course of the last session. Ministers appeared to entertain strange ideas of political economy. They looked to the production of a vast quantity of goods as a proof of the flourishing state of the country, no matter whether those goods fetched any thing or nothing in the market. Now it was notorious that the master-manufacturers who had produced those goods had been obliged to sell them under prime cost. And was that, he would ask, a matter of boast to be inserted in a king's Speech? He knew that the noble duke at the head of the government entertained very singular ideas as to the situation of the country. He said that the extravagant system which prevailed during the war must be abandoned, and moderate and sober habits introduced [hear]. Sober habits, he admitted, were very good, but why not extend them to all—to ministers, to sinecurists, to all who live on the taxes? [hear] for if
"Order and sobriety,
Are the rules of his society,"
why not make them general? [cheers and laughter] But in many parts of the country, the people were sober enough to satisfy any body, being reduced to potatoes and water. The noble duke ought to recollect, that those sober people had each contributed his mite to present him with the most splendid reward ever given to a soldier. But he doubted whether they would have granted him 700,000 l. if they thought that he would have supported laws the tendency of which was to double that sum. In conclusion, he would observe, with respect to the national credit, that there were two species of debts—that which the government borrowed, and that which by Mr. Peel's bill was doubled. The first would be paid, but the second never would be, never could be, and never ought to be paid.
Mr. Alderman Thompson. — I should have contented myself by being silent this evening, if an hon. member had not adverted to a statement made which may go into society; and I feel that I owe it to my own character, and that it is due to the House, that I should give an explanation of the motives that actuate the class of the community to which I belong, as it will also serve to shew why I shall vote as I intend to do. If his majesty's ministers had simply announced that the distress did not affect one interest merely, but that

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it had spread generally over the country, there would have been little debating that night. He was not disposed, from any thing he had that evening heard, to withdraw his confidence from his majesty's ministers. He had no doubt the measures ministers would suggest would be those best calculated to relieve the overwhelming distress which now spread itself over every class of the community. But he must beg the right hon. gentleman to be cautious how he calculated the exports of the country to a vast extent. British manufactures had found no market at the price they could command a few years ago, but the merchants were compelled to send their goods abroad on the chance of sale anywhere, and at almost any price. The capitalist of London had changed his mode of dealing, and had lately assumed the character of a pawn-broker. British goods were sent in this way not to the continental markets merely, but to the whole world. There were goods now lying in the Custom-house which had been offered for sale in vain, and could be sold at no house at all in the city [hear]. The House was not the place to go into details of that kind; but if the House would permit him to read a letter which a friend had put into his hands this evening, they would know what was well enough known in the mercantile world, that the expenses on British goods exported exceed all possible profits that can be made by their sale [The worthy alderman here read the letter, which described the state of manufactured goods exported; adding, that they were sold in the foreign market at prices less than their production at home cost]. Since 1826, British manufactures had decreased from forty to fifty per cent in price. The noble Lord has said that he can depend on the energies of the country; that he is sure that London shops, machinery, and capital, will always beat the rest of the world in competition with it. I wish (continued the hon. alderman) I could bring my mind to believe his opinion; but I am afraid we overrate our resources. I know that there are manufacturers in this country who have been living on hope for four years, and who have labourers also living on hope with a much smaller subsistence. I saw a friend "who had recently returned from one of the largest districts in the country, and he said both masters and workmen were fast coming down to despair. I know that
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labourers perform most painful works, and that after fourteen hours of hard and constant labour, they can only earn, to maintain themselves, a few shillings, utterly insufficient. The retail dealers are sinking into distress for want of customers, and are unable to pay rates, rent, or taxes, and trade is altogether unprofitable. The shop-keepers are indulging in improbable hopes of amendment. Wretchedness, ruin, and misery swallow up all in their vortex. Every week in the Gazette is a long list of bankrupts, and a longer list of declared insolvents. I see no reason why the government should not exercise an unsparing economy. They may thus relieve the burthens of the people; and if such a course be not taken —if such a spirit do not actuate the government, the very worst consequences may ensue, [hear]—He then observed, he was sure some system might have been adopted by which they might have retained a paper currency, sound in its principle, and likely to work well, [hear, hear] He had never been an advocate for an unlimited paper currency; but still he said that something must be done, either by throwing an increased quantity of money into circulation, or by a reduction of the taxes. [hear, hear] Since the alteration, what had been the system pursued in the manufacturing districts? The manufacturers had got into the custom of paying their workmen in goods, keeping, as it were, a sort of chandler's shop for provisions and clothing, and supplying, he was sorry to say, not sufficient quantities to support the workmen. He now wished to state the grounds on which he could not support the amendment of the hon. baronet. [laughter, and cries of hear!] It was because he thought it better to wait for the government to develope their scheme; and if he should deem it insufficient, he should then feel it to be his duty to give his immediate support to those gentlemen, who, he must however say, he believed were as anxious for a change of men as they were for a change of measures. [hear, hear]
Sir J. Sebrightsaid, he had no doubt that his majesty's ministers would do all in their power to relieve the distresses of the country; but at all events the House must do its duty; and with such feelings he should support the amendment, which more accurately described the distresses of the country.
The Chan. of the Exchequersaid, that for

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some years past it had been the admitted practice of that House, when they thanked his Majesty for his communication, to reserve for subsequent discussion those branches of the Speech which any hon. member might think afforded topics for the consideration of Parliament. The hon. baronet had, however, thought that the present occasion was one on which it was right to depart from the usual custom, and he had therefore moved an amendment to one paragraph in the Speech; though he must be allowed to say that it appeared to him to vary very little from the substance of the paragraph of which the hon. baronet would complain. The Speech stated that his majesty lamented that there was distress in some parts of the country, and the hon. baronet chose to assume that the statement there made was false and unfounded. He could assure the House that, however much many gentlemen might feel for the distress of the people, none partook more deeply of that feeling than those on whom the responsibility fell of advising his majesty; and he trusted that the House would not entertain a different opinion on this point because the ministry had thought it to be their duty to advise the king to present to parliament, not an exaggerated picture of what existed, but one that they believed to be correct, from the best information they were able to procure on the subject. It was not to be denied that there was a great and severe pressure of distress in the manufacturing and agricultural parts of the community in some parts of the United Kingdom; and if he excepted some portions from that summary, it was because he believed that there were parts which, so far from being visited with such an affliction, were enjoying a comparative state of ease and of comfort. [hear, hear] It was observable that the hon. baronet had confined his statements to England only; but he had omitted noticing that part of the United Kingdom which at all times had commanded much of the care and attention of that House—he alluded to Ireland. [hear] If the hon. baronet had investigated the state of the agricultural produce in that country, he would have found that great prosperity and comfort were existing; and he would likewise have found that there were parts of this country in which much of the pressure that existed had arisen from the free introduction of Irish produce; so that in
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proportion as one part of the kingdom was depressed, at least another portion was benefitted and advanced. If this were the case, how could his Majesty have been advised to inform the parliament that a state of distress pervaded the kingdom generally? And it was undoubtedly the case, that in the northern parts of the country, there were districts in which the distress complained of had not been felt in any such degree.—He felt it impossible to address himself to the subject of the amendment without, to a certain extent, taking into consideration the speeches by which that amendment had been supported. The hon. member for Essex (Mr. Western) had supported the amendment of the hon. baronet, and he could not forget the principle upon which that support had been given; so that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) found himself still further precluded from giving his support to the amendment, when he heard the grounds on which that amendment was supported. Was there a man who had heard those speeches who did not feel that the object of them was to make an alteration in the standard of value, or at least in the currency of the country, so as to change those laws which the parliament had sanctioned, after a most mature and anxious deliberation? [hear, hear] Nor was this attempted at a period soon after the establishment of those laws, but now, ten years subsequently: so that he certainly thought that they were called upon to discuss the subject de novo, rather than in reference to transactions which were ten years old. He was not disposed to enter into that discussion at present, but he must say that to entertain the proposition of altering the standard of value which was laid down in 1819 as the basis of our circulation, or to concur in the restoration of the circulating medium of one-pound notes, were concessions which the government would never be prepared to make, [loud cheers] as they were concessions which were not required by the state of the country. [hear, hear] By pursuing this conduct, the government might not perhaps be providing for their popularity at the present moment; but he believed that they were pursuing the true course to benefit the country, and for its future acquiescence in the justice of their conduct [hear]. For these reasons he felt it to be his duty to oppose the amendment of the

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hon. baronet, and he knew not to what object any individual would be looking who should give it his support. There was nothing in his majesty's Speech to agree with which would preclude the opening of any topic in future; there was nothing in the Address which pledged any one as to the degree of sympathy which he was to feel for the distresses of the country; there was nothing which precluded their inquiring into any subject; and, in short, the Speech comprised in itself what had appeared to his majesty's ministers to be the strict and literal truth [hear]. In agreeing with the Address, it did not prevent any gentleman undertaking the controversion of any isolated fact: above all, it did not pledge any member to any particular course, beyond that of a disposition to economize the public money. For these reasons he should avoid addressing himself to any of those particular topics which had been started; and, indeed, his principle reason for offering himself to the attention of the House was for the purpose of assuring it that it was the firm determination of his majesty's government to adhere to those measures which had that night been so freely discussed, and which he firmly believed to be calculated to afford the greatest advantage to the country, [hear]
Mr. Maberlysaid, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the Speech which he had just concluded, appeared to think that the sole object of the hon. baronet, and of those who supported his amendment, was to alter the standard of value, or to return wholly to a paper currency. Such was by no means the fact; and he (Mr. Maberly) would, on a future occasion, tell the right hon. gentleman how a paper currency might be adopted without once touching the standard of value. For his part, he had not heard from the hon. baronet that he wanted either an alteration of the standard, or an equitable adjustment, or any such thing. The principle on which the hon. baronet had dealt with the Speech was, that he did not consider it sufficiently explicit of the intentions of his majesty's ministers. It was quite clear that ministers were bound to propose some remedy for the evils that prevailed. Did they not know that the alteration of the currency caused the distress? He maintained that a great deal both of distress and difficulty might have been avoided by more careful measures respect-
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ing the one-pound notes. Did ministers say that they recommended a reduction of taxation?—No, but they recommended what? Why—nothing more than caution. [hear] Yes, caution was the only thing they recommended, not one word being said about the reduction of taxes. But the people could not go on paying-taxes if the present low profits upon all produce continued. That House would not do its duty, either to the sovereign or to the people, if it did not support every measure which tended to diminish the severe burthens of the people. Disregarding for the present every other remedy, he would undertake on an early day to propose one which should stand and run. [laughter] Yes, he would propose a measure for establishing a safe paper currency, without at all interfering with the standard. On what basis did the present metallic currency stand? Why, entirely on the Bank of England, the capital of which was largely employed in Exchequer-bills and other securities—securities, too, that at various periods, as in the year 1825, for instance, were not convertible. To talk about a metallic currency, was quite idle, there was no sound metallic currency in the country, what there was must give way in time of pressure. It was infinitely better to have a steady paper circulation than a metallic currency, which might be so affected. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not recommend inquiry; and why? Because he said he could not sanction any alteration in the measures relating to the currency. He did not object to the right hon. gentleman taking the remedy into his own hands, if he only told them what he meant to do; but what he particularly complained of was, that there was to be no remedy at all. Nothing but caution was recommended. The House, he hoped, would take upon itself that duty which the right hon. gentleman neglected. He hoped that the House would institute an inquiry to ascertain what taxes might be reduced. There were seven millions of taxes laid upon beer and malt, but why was not this impost laid upon beer alone, or upon malt alone? No, this was not to be done, and the reason was obvious, because the expense of collection on both together was 370,000 l. a-year. He complained of the expense of collecting some other taxes, and expressed his earnest hope that the House would promptly institute an in-

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quiry into the existing distress, with a view to providing some effectual remedy. If the House insisted upon a large reduction of the taxation, the ministers would soon shape the expenditure accordingly.
Mr. O'Connellsaid, he did not presume to think that either redress to the people or instruction to the House could follow from the few observations which he should trespass on the House on the present occasion. The people had sent him thereto do their business, and in the discharge of his duty he felt that he was authorised to express his humble opinion as to the state of the country. In the discharge of that duty also, he might have to address them of tener than he could wish; and the only compensation that he could make was, to promise to be as brief as he possibly could. He had now to address himself to the Speech from the Throne, of which he felt himself bound to speak in as harsh terms as he might consistently with the respect to which it was entitled; it was entitled to respect as emanating from the king—and the king's name was a tower of strength; it was entitled to courtesy as proceeding from the noble duke at the head of state affairs and of the government; and, on these accounts, he should treat it with respect and courtesy; but when he looked at what the document was in itself, he felt warranted in saying that anything so unsatisfactory in its propositions, and so meagre in its details, could scarcely have been concocted or conceived, [hear] The seconder of the Address, in his observations, had alluded to France and America. Did he think that in France, with its new institutions, such a Speech would have been endured by the real representatives of that people? [hear] Or did he think that a message from the chief magistrate of the Americans, containing such jejune and empty statements, would have been tolerated for a moment? [hear] Let the House contrast it with the message that had lately been sent by the President of the United States. Let them look at the minuteness of detail, let them look at the wise suggestions which that message contained, and then compare it with the Speech which they then had before them. Would any one pretend to tell him that if that House really represented the people at large, such a Speech would ever have been offered to their consideration? [hear]
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What did it contain? The first point was, that foreign nations continued to speak in terms of peace; but did they ever do otherwise when a war was on the point of breaking out, or even when the war itself had actually commenced? The next information was, that the Russian war was at an end. That was an important discovery, indeed; and, of course, none of them knew that before [a laugh.] They were then told that nothing was determined as to Portugal. And why? Ah! they were not told that [hear]. Was the character of Don Miguel then doubtful? Did any one doubt that he had usurped the throne of another, and endeavoured to cement his seat by the spilling of innocent blood? [hear] If so, why did the government of England shrink from the decision to which it ought to come? They were next told of the partial distress of the country. But was that a fact? He thought that the expressions which had fallen from the three hon. members on the other side who had supported the Address, were—the one, that the distress was general; the second, that the distress was extraordinary; and the third, that the distress was overwhelming. [laughter and cries of hear, hear] The chancellor of the Exchequer, however, had made one happy discovery; he had found an "Oasis in the desert"—a country where no distress at all existed: and, who would have thought it?—that country was Ireland. [laughter] He had lately been in Ireland, but anything more astonishing he certainly had never heard in his life. Was it then not true, that there were seven thousand registered persons in Dublin alone actually living on three half-pence a day, and that even that miserable pittance was almost exhausted — the first subscription (with the lord lieutenant at the head) amounting to 3,500 l. and the second to no more than 300 l.? Why, if this were true, what very cruel landlords, what very stingy agriculturists must Ireland contain, that they should be in such a state of prosperity, and not even contribute a farthing to such miserable objects of pity, [hear] He did not like to pledge himself to any statement of facts, as to every part of the country, but he pretty well knew three provinces in Ireland—the provinces of Leinster, Connaught, and Munster, and he knew that the agriculturalists in those three provinces were suffering the greatest dis-

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tress. In many parts of those provinces the rents were paid, not out of the profits of the land, but out of the capital of the farmer. There had been various instances in which the rents had been obtained only by levying an execution, and by the sale even of the very blankets with which the unfortunate tenant had been covered. In the production of that distress, as far as his information went, many causes concurred, but unquestionably the state of the currency was one of those causes. He felt that he had a right to complain of the omission of all allusion to these circumstances in the Speech; and he felt that he had a right to complain that all allusion to the state of Ireland was omitted in that speech, and that it was alluded to only in a kind of parenthesis in the Speech of the right honourable the chancellor of the Exchequer. The right hon. gentleman had given a pledge on the part of his majesty's government that they would not propose any measure of interference with the currency. He (Mr. O'Connell) was convinced that they could not adhere to that pledge without diminishing the taxation of the country, and reducing it, not by candle-ends and cheese-parings, but by millions upon millions, [hear hear] Instead of keeping up a taxation of sixty millions, if we persevered in a gold currency, we must cut that taxation down to fifteen or twenty millions. [hear] Let that be done; and then the currency might be maintained in its present state. Among the great causes of the distress of the people, were the abuses existing in the courts of law. Those abuses ought to be corrected equally in the courts of common law, in the courts of equity, in the courts of admiralty, and in the ecclesiastical courts. He therefore warmly approved of that passage in the Speech in which his majesty stated that "his attention had been of late earnestly directed to various important considerations connected with improvements in the general administration of the law." That was the solitary passage in the whole of the Speech which met with his cordial approbation. There must be reforms in the law, the present piebald system of Equity, Common-law, of the Ecclesiastical and Admiralty courts (different in each) must be simplified and assimilated. He offered his humble meed of sincere thanks to the right hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel) for his successful attempts to break down some of the legal defects
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which deformed the system. But we should proceed further; banish the barbarities of special pleading, and cause all our courts to act upon one consistent and defined principle. That distress existed in many places must be admitted. The chancellor of the Exchequer admitted its existence in England. What was the cause of this? Was it owing to want of industry, intelligence, economy, or perseverance in the people? Certainly not; the people of England were possessed of all these qualities in an eminent degree, and yet they were distressed. What was the cause of this? It was to be found, not in the people, but in the misgovernment to which they had been subjected. One salutary effect of the existing distress would probably be, that it would deprive the administration of the confidence of the people. If they met in their cities and counties, and made use of a gentle and constitutional compulsion towards ministers, ministers would yield, and a salutary reform would be the consequence. As he had before stated, we should have a thorough reform of the law. Talk not of modifying the Game-laws for instance, but abolish that cruel code altogether which now filled our prisons. There should be an investigation of the state of the representation, with a view to render it satisfactory to the people, who, if properly represented, could not complain with justice of the measures adopted by parliament. If the people, instead of being properly, or even partially represented, were left unrepresented—if there was a traffic in boroughs to fill up the ranks of the ministerial legions, it could not be expected that the people should be satisfied. He looked forward to the existing distress with satisfaction in one point of view—it would cause the people to raise their voice aloud, and demand a radical and complete reform. He had now made some confession of his political faith. From the people he came—they had sent him thither to do the work of the people. He should support the amendment proposed by the hon. baronet, the member for Kent; and if that were lost, he wished to propose a resolution to the effect that the existence of distress being admitted, and that this distress not being caused by any fault of the people, it was the first duty of the House to inquire into its causes, with a view to affording radical and satisfactory relief to all parties. He would

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then move (supposing his resolution to be adopted) that the House do sit from day to day until it had ascertained the causes of the public distress. [cheers and laughter]
Mr. Huskissonsaid, there had been already one amendment proposed, and notice given of no fewer than three others. He was far from censuring the practice of proposing amendments on such occasions as the present. He came down to the House altogether ignorant of the contents of his Majesty's Speech, and equally ignorant of the intention of the hon. baronet, or of any other gentleman, to propose an amendment; but an amendment having been moved, and a debate having arisen upon it, he felt called upon, without reference to the possibility of prospective arrangements, which might be for consideration hereafter, to express his opinion on the subject with reference to the simple matter of fact as to the state of the country, which was the real question in issue. If the question were as to any particular mode of relief, it would be equally unwise and unbecoming to go into it when assembled to thank his majesty for his gracious Speech; accordingly, from anything of that sort he should cautiously abstain. But, after what he had heard from the noble mover and hon. seconder of the proposed Address, after all that had fallen from those who had subsequently addressed the House, and from his own knowledge of facts, he felt bound to state his opinion that the real facts of the case, as regarded the public distress, were more correctly stated in the amendment moved by the hon. baronet than in the Address proposed by the noble lord. [hear] Entertaining that opinion, whatever might be his wish to abstain from saying anything upon this occasion, he was no longer at liberty to support an Address which did not contain so accurate an estimate of the actual state of the country as was to be found in the amendment. He thought it a material circumstance in the present state of universal disquietude and dissatisfaction that prevailed, not to provoke a hostile discussion between the representatives of the people and the people themselves, and not to call down on the House of Commons reproach by understating the distress and difficulty of the time. The best course to be adopted in order to meet and overcome these difficulties was to look at and avow them fairly. He was not one of those who thought the difficulties so great as they
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had been represented in many quarters— he did not despair of seeing the country restored to a situation of prosperity; but from all the information he possessed, he felt satisfied that there now existed that degree of pressure on the productive classes generally, which, were it to be permanent or long continued, would be incompatible with their continuous existence. [hear] He was of opinion that the country, as far as the productive classes were concerned, was in an unsatisfactory and suffering, but he trusted and believed not in a decaying and falling state. If parliament looked at the subject properly, and acted as a part of the Speech recommended, they would find themselves fully competent to cope with the existing difficulties, and to overcome them. But it was by studying to benefit, to the utmost, the industrious classes that we could alone lay any solid foundation of public happiness, or revive prosperity. There were many things difficult to be accounted for in our present condition, but which parliament would do well to attend to. Some gentlemen attributed the distress to a supposed deficiency in the currency,—a proposition which he thought it would be difficult to maintain, for we now saw money more abundant in this metropolis than at any former period; we saw Exchequer-bills producing two-and a-quarter per cent interest, selling at a premium of 75s., and we saw the low rate at which money was every day borrowed. The fact was, there was a stagnation in several parts of our productive industry, and an overflow of capital in others. It was cause of satisfaction to observe, that the produce of our exports last year exceeded the exports of any preceding year, but at the same time we knew that the capital and property so employed had in many instances been unproductive. It would be difficult to reconcile the two facts of a deficient currency and a low rate of profit. In almost all branches of productive industry the profits were so small as not to compensate for the amount of capital employed, or afford sufficient support to the individuals whose labour was required. There must be some irregularity of action in our condition. Circumstanced as we were, to propose to increase the currency would be similar to recommending an individual, subject to too great and rapid an action of the blood, to drink a quantity of brandy. He would not support the hon. baronet's motion if by so doing he should

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be thought to imply an assent to some of the doctrines urged by its supporters. So far was he from concurring in those doctrines, that he had heard with satisfaction what fell from the chancellor of the Exchequer in answer to them. He was satisfied that among the causes of disquietude and dissatisfaction that existed, were the delusive hopes, the unfounded apprehensions, and general anxiety, that, must prevail in a country, so long as that which formed the measure of value with respect to property was subject to doubt and change. If then we had even been in error (which he was far from admitting, but maintained the contrary) in 1819, 1825, or 1826, it would be better to persevere than to unsettle the state of the country, by again tampering with the currency. [hear] It was to other means that the country must look for relief. An unsettled state of the public mind was one of the greatest evils that could befall a country. He did not collect from the speech of the hon. baronet, that any member was required to commit himself to particular measures if he supported the amendment. His right hon. friend hinted that distress was not so general as the amendment would make it appear; but all his ingenuity could not prove that the distress was confined to some particular parts of the country, as the Address stated. The productive classes generally were in a state of distress. He believed that this was owing to causes, to many of which it was beyond the power of parliament to apply a remedy; but it was in their power to satisfy the country as to what the causes were, and to afford partial relief by giving a better direction to the capital of the country; upon that point he differed materially from the hon. seconder of the address. The hon. member seemed to hint that the reduction of the rate of interest in some of the higher denominations of the public securities would operate favourably, but it appeared to him that even that reduction was far from being an unmixed good. The amendment had been described to be a "milk-and-water amendment," but that rather recommended it to his support [hear and laughter.] He did not wish to enter into the large field of foreign politics, but he might observe, in passing, that his Majesty's Speech merely stated that the war between Russia and Turkey had terminated. This was the statement of a fact, it had been said,
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before known; but such statements were not uncommon in speeches from the throne. For his part, he was glad that it was stated simply that the war had terminated, without any explanation of the mode by which that termination had been effected. [hear and laughter] It was a received principle, that the independence of Turkey was necessary to the maintenance of a just balance of power in Europe, and that circumstance did throw upon government the onus of showing that there was nothing in the treaty between Turkey and Russia contrary to this principle. However, when the documents were before the House, it would be time enough for them to discuss how far the spirit of the treaty of the 6th July had been preserved. Up to the arrival of the Russians in Adrianople, no great progress appeared to have been made in the cause of the Greeks. With respect to Portugal, whatever disposition there had been, during the two last sessions, to abstain from looking into the question of our foreign relations, he hoped that we should no longer avoid an inquiry which it was necessary for the character of the country to make [hear] A recognition of Don Miguel had been hinted at, but if it was carried into effect we ought to receive more information on the subject than we had obtained last session. Till we had obtained further information, we were not in a situation to investigate whether (not merely in reference to the question of legal right, but with regard to the honour of the country, and our ancient alliance with Portugal) we had properly discharged all our obligations. He had witnessed with great regret in his Majesty's Speech, which ought to advert to all matters of general interest, an omission of all reference to wars waging in another hemi-sphere. There was a treaty of peace and amity between this country and Mexico, and he should have thought that the efforts made to prevent the industry of that country from taking a natural direction, that the attempts at a predatory warfare, inconsistent with the revival of industry in Mexico and other states of the new continent, inconsistent with the interests of commerce and navigation, hostile to the proper management of the mines of South America, which it was our interest to have as -productive as possible,—he thought that these were matters which required some notice, and he should have been glad to

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hear that his majesty continued to use endeavours for the restoration of peace, tranquillity, and security in the new states, in the prosperity of which this country had the greatest possible interest. It was not the interests of trade and commerce that were alone concerned, the matter did not relate to this country only. Europe had the greatest possible interest that South America should be in a state of tranquillity and independence, and that those states should be made valuable and useful civilized societies. There was a time when these states looked up to this country as a power ready to rescue them from impending dangers, not by military demonstrations, but by its good offices, of which they were worthy as far as they could be exerted, if not in reference to their peace and tranquillity, yet with reference to our own interest. The omissions of the Speech had been complained of — it did not advert to Ireland. He did not pretend to know with any degree of accuracy the state of Ireland. He should have thought, that after the great act of justice of last session, we might have been told whether that measure had produced all the benefits which he for one had anticipated. He believed it had produced great benefits: he believed that such had been the effect of that great measure of justice, conciliation, and relief, which was so strongly recommended in the royal Speech of last session. It was not matter of surprise with him, therefore, that Ireland did not hold so prominent a position as some gentlemen appeared to suppose it ought; but it was matter of surprise to him that the effect of this measure had not been mentioned. He concluded by declaring that he felt himself bound in justice to support the amendment, because it expressed the facts of the case with more justice to the feelings of the House, and to the duty which the throne and the country had a right to expect from them, than the original amendment.
Mr. Sec. Peelsaid, he certainly was not surprised to hear his right hon. friend say, that the chief recommendation of the hon. baronet's amendment in his eyes consisted in its being "a milk-and-water amendment," because when he recollected the votes uniformly given by his right hon. friend, and the doctrines which he had uniformly held, he must say, that the smallest possible infusion of milk in the
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water was precisely that which would best suit the right hon. gentleman's constitution, [hear and laughter] The doctrine of his right hon. friend (Mr. Huskisson) had been, on former occasions, when changes were called for, "beware how you excite fallacious hopes—trust to the native energy—the natural elasticity of our resources, by which we have so often triumphed; and do not risk the permanent interests of the country by rash experiments on the capital and industry of our fellow-subjects." The right hon. gentleman had not only resisted practical measures, but committees of inquiry, lest he should excite false expectations; and now, hearing an amendment proposed, on principles from which he totally dissents, he is, nevertheless, prepared to support it, because he thinks the exposition of facts contained in the amendment better than that in the Speech from the throne. What course did the right hon. gentleman take with regard to the committee moved for to inquire into the state of the currency? He resisted its appointment to the last, lest its appointment should unsettle men's minds, and upon the same principle he resisted the inquiry into the state of the silk trade last session. [hear] However, it would have been more consistent if his right hon. friend had waited till he heard what specific measures were to be proposed, before he opposed his majesty's government. It would have been better if he had not endeavoured to raise the expectations of the country, as they must be raised, if we admitted the existence of universal distress, and dissented from the Speech from the throne, stating that his majesty's ministers had been misinformed —that all our interests were suffering under no ordinary pressure, and that we would direct our efforts to provide relief. Depend upon it, if you vote the amendment now proposed, and if it shall turn out that your efforts to relieve the distress are vain, you will have done more harm than good, and you will have raised expectations which it will be impossible to fulfil. The amendment was not correct; the expressions contained in it narrowed the sentiments of the king's Speech instead of extending them; it spoke of distress "in particular places;" the Speech mentioned "some parts of the United Kingdom" as being distressed, a wider and more comprehensive expression. As to the omission of certain topics in the Speech

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and among the rest, the omission of all mention of Ireland, he certainly did think, that after the completion of that measure in which Ireland took such a deep interest, —after that country had been placed on a footing of equality with the rest of the empire,—there existed no necessity for making special mention of a part of the kingdom which had no longer any thing to distinguish it from the remainder. Since the passing of that measure it might be said of the two countries—
—"Paribus se legibus ambæ
"Invietæ gentes æterna in fœdera mittant."
The quotation had been applied by Mr. Pitt to the expected effect of the Union, and certainly it was not less appropriate when used with reference to the measure recently accomplished. Under such circumstances, it might fairly be said, that the time had arrived when we might consider the condition of Ireland the same as that of the other parts of the United Kingdom, and except the occurrence of special circumstances required it, Ireland need not be particularly mentioned. It "was now to be looked upon as England or Scotland. He would say, however, that the condition of Ireland was now much better and more satisfactory than it had been previous to the last session of parliament. An hon. gentleman had drawn a comparison, unfavourable to the latter, between the American President's Message and his Majesty's Speech. Whatever might be that gentleman's satisfaction at the tenor of the American message, his was as great. The manner in which England was mentioned by the president gave his majesty's government, in common with all other classes of their fellow-subjects, the sincerest pleasure; and he was glad of that opportunity to repeat the expressions of amity and friendship used by that distinguished man when speaking of this country. His words were these:—"With Great Britain, alike distinguished in peace and war, we may look forward to years of peaceful, honourable, and elevated competition. Everything in the condition and history of the two nations is calculated to inspire sentiments of mutual respect, and to carry conviction to the minds of both, that it is their policy to preserve, the most cordial relations. Such are my own views, and it is not to be doubted that such are also the prevailing sentiments of our constituents." He re-echoed these sentiments:
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—May all the competition between the two countries be the competition of industry, civilization, and peace!—May the foolish sentiments of individual hostility entertained by some in both countries, gradually vanish before the influence of good sense and right feeling: and, as both nations possess a common language, and are derived from a common source, may they be united in lasting relations of goodwill and amity! He gladly took this opportunity, on the part of the English government, of re-echoing, with respect to America, those kindly sentiments which her President had expressed towards us. But in contrasting the two Speeches, the hon. gentleman began by complaining of the mention made in his majesty's Message of so notorious a fact as the termination of hostilities between Russia and Turkey. As his majesty had announced to parliament the breaking out of the war between these powers, it was proper that he should mention its termination. The hon. gentleman also complained of our treatment of Don Miguel, and spoke of the supposed feelings of America if she had received such a Speech as the English parliament had received on the subject. But the fact was, that the American President recognized Don Miguel, as was apparent from this passage of his message: "During the recess of Congress, our diplomatic relations with Portugal have been resumed. The peculiar state of things in that country caused a suspension of the recognition of the representative who presented himself, until an opportunity was had to obtain from our official organ their information regarding the actual, and as far as practicable prospective, condition of the authority by which the representative in question was appointed. This information being received, the application of the established rule of our government in like cases was no longer withheld." [hear, hear] The hon. gentleman attributed all our distresses to misgovernment, and to defects in our representative system; but, unfortunately for his hypothesis, the same distress which we complained of in England existed in America, where the representation was constructed on the basis of universal suffrage. [hear] What said President Jackson on this subject?—"No very considerable change has occurred during the recess of Congress, in the condition of either our agriculture, commerce, or manufactures. The operation of the tariff has

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not proved so injurious to the two former, nor as beneficial to the latter, as was anticipated. Importations of foreign goods have not been sensibly diminished, while domestic competition, under an illusive excitement, has increased the production much beyond the demand for home consumption. The consequences have been low prices, temporary embarrassment, and partial loss. That such of our manufacturing establishments as are based upon capital, and are prudently managed, will survive the shock, and be ultimately profitable, there is no good reason to doubt." With respect to the amendment, during the last thirty years there had been no occasion upon which an amendment to an Address had been carried;*—that in nineteen years out of the thirty no amendment was proposed;—and that the present was an Address in respect of which no objection could be made, with the exception of the omission of two or three topics. A gentleman complained of the policy of late governments in adding to the House of Peers; but from this charge the duke of Wellington, who had made only one peer since he became prime minister, was free. The Speech stated the increase of exports in the last year; and it was said we inferred from thence that our trade and commerce were in a flourishing condition. But we inferred no such thing; we only stated facts; and, notwithstanding the increased exports, his majesty regretted the prevalence of distress in some parts of the kingdom. It was said ministers had not stated facts correctly, and that they were indifferent to the distress, because they recommended no remedy. Where was the proof that the Speech from the throne misstated facts? Was the House prepared at once, without inquiry, and without the necessary information before it, to sanction by its vote the allegation made in the amendment of the hon.
* It had probably escaped Mr. Peel's recollection, that upon one occasion, [Sess. 1812; see Hansard's Parl. Deb. vol xxi, p. 17, first series sir Francis Burdett by immediately rising upon the Lords Commissioners Speech having been read, and first catching the eye of the Speaker, who therefore decided that the hon. baronet was in possession of the House, moved an Address which would otherwise have been proposed as an amendment, so that the ministerial intended Address was necessarily proposed as the Amendment, by Lord Jocelyn, and so carried.
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baronet, that the distress was universal, and existed throughout all parts of the country? The hon. baronet's amendment stated that all the productive interests of the country were suffering severely under a general depression. There was no qualification whatever in the statement. Was the House prepared, in the face of Europe, to sanction such a statement? [hear] "Distress exists in my own. neighbourhood," argued the hon. baronet and those who support him, "therefore I am bound to conclude that the distress is universal amongst all the productive interests of the country." Should not the House pause before it founded a statement as to such an important matter upon evidence of such description? Should not the House pause before it took for granted any such statement, the more particularly when it found this important fact mentioned in the Speech from the throne, namely—that the exports of British produce during the last year had far exceeded those of any former year? It was rather extraordinary, with such a gratifying statement in his majesty's Speech, to find an amendment proposed, which declares, that all the productive interests of the country are labouring under severe depression. The House should therefore hesitate before it adopted such a proposition. [cheers] But it might be said, that this was no proof of the prosperity of the country, and perhaps it would be added, that all these exports were sold at a loss, and that no return was made from them. But was it to be supposed that, year after year, from the year 1819,—for that was the period from which the distress was dated, — was it to be imagined that year after year, from that time, the manufacturers of this country had continued manufacturing and exporting at a positive loss? [hear] Was it probable that such a thing could have occurred? But then it was asserted, that let the amount of our foreign exports be what they might, our home market was depressed; and that while an increase had taken place in our exports to foreign countries, a great and corresponding decline had taken place in our home consumption. He would at once meet and deny that assertion. [hear] No corresponding decline in our home consumption had taken place at all to be put in contradistinction to the in crease in our foreign exports. The allegation was, that the distress existed

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universally throughout England, Ireland and Scotand. He held in his hand returns to disprove to a great extent the truth of that assertion. He was compelled to refer to matters of detail to furnish arguments to induce the House to pause before it adopted the proposition of the hon. baronet. He was prepared to show, from documents in his possession, that there had not been the falling-off that had been stated in the internal consumption of the country. He had been furnished with comparative statements of the amount of tons carried, and of the tonnage duties received, upon the principal canals, for a certain number of years, and the important fact which they established should be well weighed by the House before it pledged itself to the opinion of the hon. baronet, so contradictory as it was to the statement made from the throne. These statements exhibited a comparative increase year after year in the amount of business done on the principal canals. He would take a cipher as the foundation of his respective statements, which would furnish no indication of the comparative business of one canal compared with that of another; but which would actually show at the the same time the general increase of business done on those canals, proving an increase in the internal consumption of the country. These returns commenced with the year 1820,—that year when the bill which he (Mr. Peel) would never disclaim, though so much obloquy had been thrown upon it—he meant the bill for regulating the metallic standard, and restoring the currency, took effect. He had expressly desired that they should be made out that year, for he well remembered, that when that bill came into operation, prophecies without number were propounded, that the commercial transactions and concerns of this country were so complicated and so multiplied, that any attempt to carry such a measure into effect would tend to cramp and depress the energies of the country. He was ready to take his stand by what had occurred in our foreign trade; but he would fortify himself by proofs of an increase also in our home consumption. The returns which he had procured were from the Forth and Clyde canals, from the duke of Bridge water's Canal, from the Grand Junction Canal, from the Kennet and Avon, and from the Berkeley and Gloucester Canals. In the
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year 1820, the amount of tons on the Forth and Clyde Canal was three thousand two hundred and ninety; in the year 1821, four thousand and twenty-eight; in 1822, four thousand four hundred and sixty; in 1823, four thousand eight hundred and seventy-four; in 1824, four thousand eight hundred and seventy-four; in 1825, five thousand eight hundred and four; in 1826, five thousand seven hundred and fifty-eight; in 1827, five thousand eight hundred and eighteen; and, in 1828 (the last year to which the accounts were made up,) five thousand nine hundred and seventy. Thus, in the year 1828, the amount of tons was five thousand nine hundred and seventy, while the average of the eight preceding years was four thousand eight hundred and forty-three, giving an increase in the year 1828 to the amount of one thousand tons upon this canal. Upon all the other canals a similar progressive increase had taken place in their business, from the year 1819 till the year 1828. On the duke of Bridge water's canal, in the year ending the 1st of January, 1830, the average amount of tonnage was one thousand five hundred and eighty-six, while, in the year 1829, the average was one thousand one hundred and fourteen; so that it appeared that the average amount of tonnage on that canal for the last year exceeded that of the former year by nearly five hundred tons. It might here be said that though the tonnage had increased, the tonnage duties had not. Now he had expressly inquired as to the amount of duties received, and this was the result. Upon the Grand Junction Canal, the average amount of the tonnage duties received for the eight preceding years was 8,606 l., last year the average had risen to 9,000 l. On the Grand Trunk Canal, the average of the eight preceding years was 8,001 l. last year it had risen to 14,049 l. Upon the Kennet and Avon the average for the same period was 1,699/., last year it amounted to 2,190/. The average amount of tonnage duties upon the river Avon for the same period was 1,547/.; last year it had mounted to 1,7067. The average amount upon the Berkeley and Gloucester Canal for the seven years preceding 1828, was 1,069 l. It had increased in 1828 to 2,235 l.; and last year,to 2,360 l. Here, on this canal, the average was more than doubled in the course of two years. These facts should

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induce the House to pause before it sanctioned the statement that universal irremediable distress prevailed throughout the country. These facts applied to England; but let the House recollect, that if any part of England, Scotland, or Ireland should be proved not to have been subject to the depression spoken of, the statement of the hon. baronet must fall to the ground. Now, with regard to Ireland, an hon. gentleman said, that great distress prevailed in the city of Dublin. He was ready to admit that distress did exist in the Liberties of that city, but as long as he had been acquainted with Ireland he never knew a period when the manufacturers in that irreclaimable part of Dublin were not in distress,—so much so, that scarcely a year passed without appeals being made on their behalf to the charity of the public. No doubt distress prevailed in Ireland, and God grant that some measure might be devised to remedy it; but was there any proof before the House, that the agricultural interests of Ireland were suffering under universal distress and depression? Could it be said that universal distress existed amongst the agriculturists of Scotland? He doubted that such was the fact, and before the House asserted it, he would call upon it to employ due precaution in forming its opinion. He would maintain that the Address, in answer to the Speech, gave a truer description of the state of the country than the amendment proposed by the hon. baronet. It was perfectly consistent, on the part of his majesty's ministers, while they felt sincere sympathy for the distress which did exist, to be extremely cautious as to the adoption of rash experiments with a view to its alleviation. [hear] The distress which did exist had originated in causes over which government had no control; and it should be borne in mind, that it was not exclusively confined to the dominions of his majesty. The agricultural interests had also experienced similar depression in America, and in other countries. In France, for instance, the distress had been in many places as severe as in any part of this country. In parts of the United States, the distress had been equally as great as with us. In Russia, at this moment, a proclamation had been issued for lowering the rate of interest, with a view to remedy the agricultural distress prevailing there; therefore the causes
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whatever they might be, which had operated to produce this distress were not confined to this country. Great weight was certainly due to the effects produced by unfavourable seasons. He believed that the expense incurred by the agricultural interest, both in cultivating the soil, and collecting the harvest, had never been so great as in the last two years, owing to the extreme wetness of the seasons. That was sufficient to account in some degree for the depression experienced by the agricultural interest; and, besides, he did not think that due weight had been assigned to the effect of the importations from Ireland. That was a cause beyond remedy or control. Ireland was fairly entitled to a free access to the markets of this country, and no man would be mad enough to propose to restrict the importations from that country. He held in his hand an account of the amount of importations from Ireland into the port of Liverpool during the last year. During that period there had been imported into Liverpool from Ireland, forty-nine thousand oxen, thirteen thousand calves, eighteen thousand pigs, one hundred and eleven thousand sheep, one thousand three hundred lambs; and the total value of agricultural produce thus imported amounted to 1,270,000 l. exclusive of corn. [hear] It was impossible to deny that such immense importations from Ireland had the effect of depressing the agricultural interests of this country. The same argument applied to Scotland. The Crown, he therefore conceived, was quite justified in entreating the House to use extreme caution before it should attempt to remedy, by legislative interference, the distress that existed. The ministers had been taunted as if they were influenced by a species of false pride, as if they were so determined to adhere to declarations formerly made respecting the currency, as blindly to close their eyes to the real distresses of the country. It was said, that they were afraid to expose themselves to the charge of inconsistency, and this followed close upon the charge which had been made against them from the same quarter last session, when they were accused of departing from those principles to which they stood pledged, in bringing forward a measure which they had uniformly opposed. It was then said, that they were actuated by a corrupt desire to maintain themselves in office,

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and the charge now was, that they were so wilfully and perversely determined to adhere to the present currency system, that they would hear of no change in it whatever. Now he would say upon this occasion, as he did when assailed by a contrary charge last session, that he was ready to abandon his opinions respecting the currency, to which he was supposed to be so unalterably pledged, if he could bring himself to believe that his so doing would be productive of any real and permanent benefit to the interests of the country. [hear] It was no imputation on the part of a public man to recede from opinions which he had maintained, when he found others better adapted to the circumstances of the country. From his experience of public life, he was never more convinced of any thing than of the arrogance of binding one's-self to any set of opinions respecting matters of this nature. [hear] To him it appeared much better to act upon the principle avowed by the hon. baronet who had proposed the amendment, and to look at every measure solely in reference to its merits, uninfluenced by the ties of any party, or by any preconceived opinions on the subject. He was ready to adopt that principle; he should be always ready to abandon opinions when proved to be wrong: and, on the contrary he should always support those which he conceived to be right. As he said before, he could not see any change of opinions on the part of a public-man in receding from those which he had hitherto maintained when the interests of the country called upon him to do so. Now, with regard to the currency, after the best deliberation which his majesty's ministers could give to the subject, they were determined to adhere to the present system, being convinced that if any error had been committed in establishing that system, we should only be exposed to still greater evils than those we had suffered by again doing any thing to unsettle the currency of the country. [hear] His majesty's ministers were not indifferent to the distress in the country; they did not deny that distress existed, they were not wanting in sympathy on account of its existence, nor in a sincere desire for its alleviation; but at the same time they were determined to adhere to a cautious policy in dealing with it. He would warn the House to beware of making rash experiments. It was because his majes-
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ty's ministers believed that any rash experiment with the currency would, while it might possibly give some immediate benefit, only be productive of more permanent evils than those from which we had been relieved, that they had come to the determination of maintaining the present system, and exposing themselves to whatever obloquy might be attached to the course which they had resolved to pursue. [hear, hear]
Lord Althorpsaid, he admitted that the present administration had done more good for the country than any other government that had preceded it; but having stated that as his opinion, he, at the same time, claimed his right generally to exercise his judgment in reference to any measures which they might introduce, and to object to, or oppose, any thing emanating from them as he might think proper. He had come down to the House that evening to hear the Speech from the throne, and he could not conceal his surprise at hearing the assertion contained in it, that distress existed "in some parts of the United Kingdom." His impression was, that the distress existed throughout the country. He should feel great satisfaction in hearing that he was mistaken in that opinion; he should feel still greater if that statement of the Speech were proved to be correct. [hear] The hon. baronet's amendment stated, that the distress existed universally. His noble friend, who moved the Address, stated, in opposition to the Speech, that the distress was general; and the hon. gentleman who seconded it made a somewhat similar admission. Until the chancellor of the Exchequer rose, no contradiction was given to the statement as to the universality of the distress, and that right hon. gentleman said that it did not exist in Ireland. But the hon. member for Clare stated that there was distress in Dublin—that he knew distress existed in Leinster, Connaught, and Munster, and that he heard it had extended to Ulster. To that assertion no contradiction had been given by any hon. gentleman from. Ireland. He had, therefore, waited anxiously to hear what the right hon. gentleman opposite had to say, as he hoped he would produce some facts to induce him (Lord Althorp) not to vote, as he was conscientiously determined to do, for the amendment. But no such facts had been stated by the right hon. gentleman; and

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under these circumstances he (lord Al-thorp) though unwilling to give a vote that might have the appearance of joining those who opposed his majesty's government for carrying a measure that he (lord Althorp) strongly approved of, [cries of "no, no," from Sir Edward Knatchbull and others,] he felt it his duty to vote for the amendment.
Mr. W. Whitmore.—Though he believed the distress to be general, and whatever reluctance he might have to adopt the statement in the address on that subject, yet as he was not prepared to go the length of those who proposed the amendment, he should vote against it.
Lord Howicksaid, he conceived that the statement in the Speech and the Address undervalued the distress which he was convinced extended generally throughout the country. The facts which the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel) had mentioned might be met by the statement, which he believed was the case, that many of the operations of our internal trade were carried on at a loss. But while he (lord Howick) regretted to see such a statement in the Speech, as he knew that the distress was general, he could not concur in the amendment proposed by the hon. baronet. He was anxious to wait to see what would be done or proposed by the government. He condemned the system of referring to a committee, consisting of twenty-three gentlemen of that House, the task of examining into every branch of our enormous establishments. It was in his opinion absurd, and likely to end as it had ended, in disappointment. The Address did not pledge hon. members.
Lord P. Leveson Gowersaid, he must contend that the terms of his majesty's Speech had not been treated fairly in the amendment proposed by the hon. baronet. In his opinion the terms of his majesty's Speech, as far as they had reference to Ireland, were even more logically true than the terms of the hon. baronet's amendment. He thought too that unjust advantage had been taken of the speech of his right hon. friend the chancellor of the Exchequer. His right hon. friend had not said that there was no distress in Ireland. He should like to see the man who would venture to say that there ever had been a period from the time of bishop Boulter, down to the present, in which no distress existed in Ireland. [hear] If he had understood his right hon. friend
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rightly, he had only spoken of the non-existence of distress among the agricultural classes in Ireland. It was likewise true that distress existed among the manufacturing population of the Liberties in Dublin—but when had it been otherwise since the days of lord Chesterfield? The noble member for Northamptonshire said that no gentleman from Ireland had risen to deny the statements as to distress in Ireland. He would not take upon himself to say that there was no distress in that country; but he would take upon himself to deny that it was universal. In reference to the complaint which had been made, that there was, in the royal Speech an omission of all opinion respecting the existing state of Ireland, he had only to say, that, in his opinion, there was in that royal silence more eloquence than if his majesty had entered into a lengthened discussion of the benefits which had been derived, far beyond all expectation, from the measure of last session. [cheers] To that measure the country owed this advantage, that if distress did exist in Ireland, it was distress without those moral evils and disquietudes which had too often previously attended it. [hear] Whatever might be the event of this motion, which was evidently made with the intention of unseating the government, in office or out of office it would always be to him a consolation to have lent his feeble aid to a measure which had been attended with such complete success. [hear, hear]
Mr. W. Smithsaid, it was his intention to support the original Address; though he was of opinion that the distress of the country was more general than any one would imagine from reading the words of the royal Speech which stated it to be confined to some parts of the United Kingdom. He opposed the amendment, because it found verbal fault with the Address, in order to displace an administration, for which the movers of the amendment wished to substitute another not near so advantageous to the country. [hear, hear] He could not separate this session from the last; and considering the unmeasured warmth and violence with which some gentlemen had then attacked the ministry, and the course which they were now again pursuing for the attainment of the same object, he could not help marvelling how it was, that they had not cooled themselves down a little during their residence in the country,

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With respect to the distress in Ireland he had only one word to say. When the measure of Catholic relief, of which he had always been a sincere supporter, was under discussion, it was repeatedly asked "Will it be a panacea for all her evils?" He had never supposed that generations and ages of bad government, and all the evils which they had necessarily produced, could be cured by it instantly, or even in a single year. The advantage of that measure was, that with all the distress of England pressing upon us, we had not the disquiet and discontent of Ireland to contend with. [hear] It was his intention on the present occasion to support the ministry. If giving this vote in their favour prevented him from giving his vote in support of any one measure of reform or retrenchment, he would rather cut off his hand than give it; but hoping to vote for reduction to the utmost in the course of the present session, he still felt himself at liberty to vote in favour of ministers against a proposition which made a covert and not a direct attack upon their conduct.
Mr. Mildmaysupported the Address, because he considered the amendment a mere quibble upon words. [hear] One of his reasons for supporting the Address was, that he could not consent to abandon a ministry which had done so much for Ireland; [hear] and one of his reasons for opposing the amendment was, that he should be sorry to give a vote in favour of that party which endeavoured to throw a clog around them when they were on their march to improvement. [hear] He was content with the admission of ministers that there was great distress in the country; for after making that admission, they would be guilty of a gross abandonment of their duty if they did not exert every means in their power to remove it.
Mr. Duncombesaid, it was his intention to support the amendment, because it painted the distress of the country correctly, which the Address did not. The right hon. Secretary for the Home Department had called upon the House not to support the amendment, until it had further evidence of the distress which pervaded all classes. He was at a loss to conceive what evidence the right hon. gentleman would have, if he were not content with that which he had got already. He had the evidence of the noble lord who moved the Address,
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and of the hon. member for the city of London who seconded it—he had the evidence of two other members for the city of London— he had the evidence of his right hon. friend, the member for Liverpool— he had the evidence of the hon. and learned member for Clare-—in short, he had the evidence of every man in the House, whose opinion on such a subject was worth having —and yet the right hon. gentleman, with all that evidence, hoped that the House would not adopt the amendment of his hon. friend the member for Kent, without receiving still more evidence. [hear] If the right hon. gentleman really required such evidence, he had it in the various meetings which had taken place in different parts of the country—in the addresses which had been sent up from various public bodies to the head of the government; and in the petitions which had been agreed to in every large town in the kingdom, and which would soon be presented to the consideration of the House. It appeared to him, that look into whatever quarter of the country a man might, he could not fail to find sufficient evidence of the severe distress which pervaded it from one end of it to another. [hear] Perhaps the eyes of the right hon. gentleman were now at length opened,—for he really was of opinion, that before that night the government was not impressed with any idea of the extent of the prevailing distress. He therefore thought, that as such was the case, it should lose no time in entering into an immediate investigation of the state of the country. With regard to the imputations which had been cast on his motives, and on the motives of those with whom he acted, he would merely observe, that he scorned them, and that he would on all occasions treat them with the contempt which they merited. [hear] He had no other motive in the course which he was then pursuing than to discharge his duty to the best of his poor ability to his distressed and afflicted countrymen. In conclusion, he must express a hope that a system of the most rigorous economy would be adopted by ministers, and that, instead of merely reducing the salaries of subordinate clerks, they would begin with the reduction of their own incomes.
Mr. Ricesaid, if he could bring himself to believe that upon the issue of this debate the continuance of the present ministers in office was to depend, so grateful was he to them for the great benefit which

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they had conferred upon Ireland by acceding to the measure of last session, that he would gladly give them all the assistance within his feeble power. But that was not the issue which the House had to try. The House had simply to decide whether the distress of the country was confined to some particular parts of it, or whether it was general throughout the country. If there were any doubt upon the point,—and he was afraid that there was not,—he should support the latter opinion, because it would at any rate show the people that their representatives were inclined to look upon their sufferings with an eye of sympathy. Under his present impressions he was inclined to support the amendment: but if any country members would get up and state to the House that their constituents were not distressed, he would immediately give his vote in favour of the original Address. He did not look upon this question as one which involved a mere quibble about words—he considered it as a question of far deeper importance. His hon. friend had intimated that he could not agree to this amendment, because it came from, and was supported by, a party with whom he was not in the habit of acting. With all deference to his hon. friend, that was a principle upon which he, as a public man, could never consent to act. Upon political subjects he generally differed from the hon. baronet who had moved the amendment, but he should indeed be ashamed of himself if that general difference of opinion should lead him to dissent from any useful and salutary proposition which the hon. baronet might bring forward. He should regret that his vote on this occasion was mistaken; he gave it to the influence of truth, in his comparative examination of two propositions which were before him. He believed, indeed, that the distress, although pressing hard upon parts of Ireland, was less there than it was found, generally speaking, in England. Enough was, however, apparent in the state of both countries to call for sympathy, and he felt himself, therefore, under the necessity of voting for that declaratory resolution which was more expressive of the degree of distress he believed to exist in the community.
Lord Tullamoresaid, he was satisfied, from personal observation and documentary evidence, that the representations regarding distress were exaggerated; he alluded
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particularly to the districts round Liverpool and Manchester; and he referred to an accurate table with which he had been furnished, shewing that between 1825 and 1828, both inclusive, the manufacture of cotton goods had increased from fifty-seven millions of yards to ninety-eight millions of yards. The increase had been in the following ratio:—

1825

57,000,000 of yards

1826

70,000,000

1827

96,000,000

1828

98,000,000

He believed that several other branches of manufacture were also in a much more flourishing condition than had been represented.
Mr. R. Palmersaid, his knowledge of the existence of very general distress compelled him with great regret to vote for the amendment.
Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald.—If the support of the Address could imply that any inquiry into the existing state of distress were denied, or even not likely to be inquired into, by the government or that House, he would evince a readiness to entertain the Amendment; but when he thought the contrary was the fact, he could not bring himself to the same conclusion as his hon. friends near him. Respecting the omission of Ireland in the Address, he wished to give a hint to the hon. member for Clare, an old debater in public life elsewhere, though young in that House; and it was to caution him against affording his prompt assistance to the hon. members for whom he had this night tendered his vote. There was certainly great distress in Ireland, but nothing equal to the extent in which it pervaded England. Let his hon. friend therefore take care how he gave his support to men, under the notion that he was serving Ireland, who might hereafter turn round and object to the importation of Irish produce, which ought to have as free an admission into the English market as that of Scotland, or of the counties of England, and propose their measures of poor-laws, or others of a similar nature, for the sister kingdom.
Colonel Woodsaid, he should vote in favour of the Address, which had described the prevailing distress, but had not encouraged exaggerated estimates of it, while it left every thing open for fair and distinct consideration. He entreated the House to consider what the impression would be of sending forth to the public

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an amendment of the kind proposed, the supporters of which did not agree in any single view of what was necessary for the ultimate attainment of their own object.
Mr. Brougham.—I only rise to state in a few words my reasons for voting for the Amendment, and thereby to guard myself against misconstruction. I feel great regret, and I say it most unfeignedly, at the course I am obliged to take; and I may say with the hon. member for Northamptonshire (lord Althorp), that I never came into the House with less expectation of being driven to vote for an Amendment than this night. If I could persuade myself that the difference between the Address and the Amendment was only a matter of words and form, and not of important sense and substance, in the present state of the country I should unhesitatingly have supported the Address. I deplore extremely the expressions which ministers have thought fit to introduce into the king's Speech. Whether they were or were not aware of it at the time it was framed I know not; but I can only ask myself this question—In what sense will these words be taken by the suffering, the deeply suffering, people of this empire! [hear] Is it possible that they can put more than one meaning upon them; and what is that meaning? That the distress is admitted by the government to a certain degree; but that, after all, it amounts to very little; for the king is made to say only that he regrets the distress prevailing among-the agricultural and manufacturing classes in some parts of the country. In plain common sense, this is the meaning of those words; there may be distress, but there is not much of it. I, for one, cannot bring myself to sanction such a statement by my vote; and when, by a debate in this House, the question has arisen and it is put to me, "will you vote for that which is a misrepresentation, or will you support that which comes much nearer the truth," I cannot hesitate, though my vote is wrung from me most reluctantly. The intention with which this Amendment has been brought forward, has been distinctly disavowed by the hon. baronet, the member for Kent; but whatever might be his intention, or the intention of those who have supported him, even if I thought that its tendency was to displace the present government, I protest that at all events I would vote against it. [hear, hear] I should vote against the Amendment equally
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if I could believe that it tended in the slightest degree to pledge me to a single step towards that line of policy which it is understood many of those who favour the Amendment are inclined to pursue. I mean as to rescinding our decisions on questions of commercial policy, and, above all, tampering with the currency. If I could dream that the vote I am about, so painfully to myself, to give, which is literally extorted from me, would have the slightest tendency to pledge me to either of those courses, bad as the alternative would be, I would prefer voting for the Address. I shall detain the House no longer than once more to state, that I never in my life gave a vote with greater regret than on the present occasion.
Question put, "That those words (sir E. Knatchbull's Amendment) be inserted." The House divided: the numbers were, Ayes 105; Noes 158: Majority against the Amendment 53.

List of the Minority.

Althorp, viscount

Howard, H.

Attwood, W.

Harvey, D. W.

Blandford, marquis of

Heathcote, sir W.

Beaumont, T. W.

Huskisson, rt. hon. W.

Baring, sir T.

Inglis, sir R. H.

Brownlow, C.

Knatchbull, sir E.

Bastard, E. P.

Kemp, T. R.

Burdett, sir F.

King, hon. gen.

Bankes, H.

Lamb, hon. G.

Bankes, W.

Lushington, Dr.

Bernal, R.

Labouchere, H.

Bright, H.

Lester, B.

Bentinck, lord G.

Langston, J. H.

Brougham, H.

Marjoribanks, S.

Baring, F.

Macdonald, sir J.

Cripps, J.

Morpeth, viscount

Calvert, N.

Mundy, F.

Calvert, C.

Mackintosh, rt. hn. sir J.

Cavendish, W.

Marshall, J.

Clinton, F.

Maberly, J.

Canning, rt. hn. sir S.

Normanby, viscount

Carter, J. Bonham

Norton, G.

Dawkins, H.

Osborne, lord F. W.

Duncombe, hon. W.

O'Connell, D.

Duncombe, T.

Ord, W.

Davenport, E.

Palmer, R.

Dick, Q.

Pallmer, C. N.

Denison, J. E.

Palmer, F.

Encombe, viscount

Palmerston, viscount

Fergusson, R. C.

Phillimore, Dr.

Fazakerley, J. N.

Peachy, general

Fyler, T. B.

Protheroe, E.

Fane, J.

Russell, lord J.

Grant, rt. hon. C.

Rice, S.

Grant, R.

Robarts, A. W.

Gascoyne, R. general

Rickford, W.

Gordon, K.

Robinson, G.

Guest, J. J.

Sefton, earl of

Graham, sir J. G. C.

Scott, hon. W.

121

Smith, S.

Wodehouse, E.

Smith, A.

Warrender, sir G.

Smith, hon. R.

Wall, C. B.

Stanley, hon. E. G.

Wyvill, M.

Seabright, sir J.

Wood, ald.

Sadler, M. T.

Wood, C.

Trant, W. H.

Wetherell, sir C.

Thomson, C. P.

Wells, J.

Trevor, hon. R.

Westenra, hon. R.

Tynte, C. K. K.

Whitbread, W. H.

Tennyson, C.

Western, C. C.

Uxbridge, earl of

Wilson, sir R. T.

Vivian, sir R. R.

Waithman, ald.

The main question was then put and agreed to, and the following Committee appointed "to draw up an Address to be presented to his Majesty upon the said Resolution:"—The Earl of Darlington, Mr. Ward, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Secretary Peel, Mr. Courtenay, Lord Leveson Gower, Sir George Clerk, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General, Mr. Dawson, Mr. Planta, Sir Alexander Grant, or any five of them.

The ADDRESS upon the Lords Commissioners Speech.
The following is an official copy of the Address referred to in page 7.
Die Jovis, 4° Februarii 1830.
Most Gracious Sovereign;
WE, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal Subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to approach Your Majesty, to return to Your Majesty our most humble Thanks for the Gracious Speech which Your Majesty has directed the Lords Commissioners to deliver to both Houses of Parliament.
WE beg leave to express to Your Majesty our grateful Acknowledgment, of the Communication, that Your Majesty has received from all Foreign Powers the strongest Assurances of their Desire to maintain and cultivate the most friendly Relations with this Country.
WE assure Your Majesty that we participate in the Satisfaction with which Your Majesty has seen that the War between Russia and the Ottoman Porte has been brought to a Conclusion.
WE offer our humble Thanks to Your
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Majesty for Your unremitted Efforts to accomplish the main Objects of the Treaty of the 6th of July 1827.
WE humbly assure Your Majesty of the sincere Satisfaction with which we have learned that Your Majesty, having recently concerted with Your Allies Measures for the Pacification and final Settlement of Greece, trust that You shall be enabled, at an early Period, to communicate to Your Parliament the particulars of this Arrangement, with such Information as may explain the Course which Your Majesty has pursued thoughout the Progress of these important Transactions.
WE cannot but express our Concern that Your Majesty is unable to announce the Prospect of a Reconciliation between the Princes of the House of Braganza.
WE thank Your Majesty for the Communication, that You have not yet deemed it expedient to re-establish, upon their ancient Footing, Your Majesty's Diplomatic Relations with the Kingdom of Portugal; and to express our grateful Sense of the Assurance, that the numerous Embarrassments arising from the continued Interruption of those Relations increase Your Majesty's Desire to effect the termination of so serious an Evil.
WE offer to Your Majesty our humble Thanks for having acquainted us, that Your Majesty's Attention has been of late earnestly directed to the various important Considerations connected with Improvements in the general Administration of the Law; and for the Directions which Your Majesty has been graciously pleased to give, that measures shall be submitted to the Deliberation of Parliament, of which some are calculated, in the Opinion of Your Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the Course of Justice in different Parts of the United Kingdom, and others appear to be necessary Preliminaries to a Revision of the Practice and Proceedings of the Superior Courts.
WE assure Your Majesty that we are impressed with a due Sense of the Confi-

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dence Your Majesty justly reposes in us, that we will give our best Attention and Assistance to Subjects of such deep and lasting Concern to the Well-being of Your Majesty's People.
WE desire to express the Satisfaction with which we have received the Information which Your Majesty has commanded to be given to us, that the Export in the last Year of British Produce and Manufactures has exceeded that of any former Year; and to assure Your Majesty that we deeply lament that, notwithstanding this Indication of active Commerce, Distress should prevail among the Agricultural and Manufacturing Classes of some Parts of the United Kingdom.
WE assure Your Majesty of our sincere Belief that it would be highly gratifying to the paternal Feelings of Your Majesty to be enabled to propose for the Consideration of Parliament, Measures calculated to remove the Difficulties of any portion of Your Subjects, and at the same time compatible with the general and permanent Interests of Your People.
WE beg leave to offer to Your Majesty our humble Thanks for the deep Solicitude Your Majesty feels for those Interests, and to express our Conviction of the Necessity with which Your Majesty is impressed of acting with extreme Caution in reference to this important Subject.
WE assure Your Majesty that we shall concur with Your Majesty in assigning its due Weight to the Effect of unfavourable Seasons, and the Operation of other Causes which are beyond the Reach of Legislative Control or Remedy.
WE offer the Assurance of our Gratitude for the Conviction Your Majesty is graciously pleased to express, that no Pressure of temporary Difficulty will induce this House to relax the Determination it has constantly manifested to maintain Public Credit inviolate, and thus to uphold the high Character and the permanent Welfare of the Country.
On Monday following was presented His Majesty's most gracious Answer:—
My Lords; I thank you for your loyal and dutiful Address.—I rely with just Confidence on your zealous Co-operation in all Measures calculated to improve the Condition of My Subjects, and to maintain the Honour and high Character of the Country.

THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS SPEECH ON OPENING THE SESSION.
The Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was this day opened by Commission. The Lords Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor (LYNDHURST); the Lord President of the Council (BATHURST); the Lord Privy Seal (ROSSLYN); the First Lord of the Treasury (WELLINGTON); and the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, (ABERDEEN). Mr. Pulman, acting for Mr. Quarme the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, summoned the attendance of the Commons; and the Speaker, attended by numerous Members, appearing at their lordships' bar, (the Commission for opening the Parliament having been read) the Lord Chancellor delivered the Speech of the Lords Commissioners to both Houses of Parliament, which was as follows:—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
We are commanded by His Majesty to inform you, that His Majesty receives from all Foreign Powers the strongest Assurances of their Desire to maintain and cultivate the most friendly Relations with this Country.
His Majesty has seen with Satisfaction that the War between Russia and the Ottoman Porte has been brought to a Conclusion. The Efforts of His Majesty to accomplish the main Objects of the Treaty of the 6th July 1827 have been unremitted.
His Majesty, having recently concerted with His Allies Measures for the Pacification and final Settlement of Greece, trusts that He shall be enabled, at an early Period, to communicate to you the Particulars of this Arrangement, with such Information as may explain the Course which His Majesty has pursued throughout the Progress of these important Transactions.
His Majesty laments that He is unable to announce to you the Prospect of a Reconciliation between the Princes of the House of Braganza.
His Majesty has not yet deemed it expedient to re-establish, upon their ancient Footing, His Majesty's Diplomatic Relations with the Kingdom of Portugal; but the numerous Embarrassments arising from the continued Interruption of these Relations increase His Majesty's Desire to effect the Termination of so serious an Evil.
Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
His Majesty has directed the Estimates for the current Year to be laid before you. They have been framed with every Attention to Economy, and it will be satisfactory to you to learn that His Majesty will be enabled to propose a considerable Reduction in the Amount of the Public Expenditure, without impairing the Efficiency of our Naval or Military Establishments.
We are commanded by His Majesty to inform you, that although the National Income during the last Year has not attained the full Amount at which it had been estimated, the Diminution is not such as to cause any Doubt as to the future Prosperity of the Revenue.
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
His Majesty commands us to acquaint you, that His Attention has been of late earnestly directed to various important Considerations connected with Improvements in the general Administration of the Law.
His Majesty has directed that Measures shall be submitted for your Deliberation, of which some are calculated, in the Opinion of His Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the Course of Justice in different Parts of the United Kingdom, and others appear to be necessary Preliminaries to a Revision of the Practice and Proceedings of the Superior Courts.
We are commanded to assure you, that His Majesty feels confident that you will give your best Attention and Assistance to Subjects of such deep and lasting Concern to the Well-being of His People.
His Majesty commands us to inform you, that the Export in the last Year of British Produce and Manufactures has exceeded that of any former Year.
His Majesty laments that, notwithstanding this Indication of active Commerce, Distress should prevail among the Agricultural and Manufacturing Classes in some Parts of the United Kingdom.
It would be most gratifying to the paternal Feelings of His Majesty to be enabled to propose for your Consideration Measures calculated to remove the Difficulties of any Portion of His Subjects, and at the same Time compatible with the general and permanent Interests of His People.
It is from a deep Solicitude for those Interests, that His Majesty is impressed with the Necessity of acting with extreme Caution in reference to this important Subject.
His Majesty feels assured that you will concur with him in assigning due Weight to the Effect of unfavourable Seasons, and to the Operation of other causes which are beyond the Reach of Legislative Control or Remedy.
Above all, His Majesty is convinced that no Pressure of temporary Difficulty will induce you to relax the Determination which you have uniformly manifested to maintain inviolate the Public Credit, and thus to uphold the high Character and the permanent Welfare of the Country.
MINUTES.] The Commons afterwards withdrew. Their Lordships resumed at five o'clock.—The LORD BISHOP OF OXFORD then took the Oaths and his Seat.—Lord ARUNDELL took the Oath prescribed by the 10th Geo. 4th. to be taken by Peers professing the Roman Catholic Religion.—The Certificate of the Return of the Earl of GLENGALL as a Peer for Ireland, in the room of the Earl of Blessinton, deceased, was read.—The Select Vestries Bill was brought in and read the first time pro formâ:— the Bill was introduced by the Duke of WELLINGTON.

ADDRESS ON THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS SPEECH.
This Speech having been again read, first by the Lord Chancellor, and then by the Clerk at the Table,
The Duke of Buccleughrose:—
My Lords;—In rising to move that a humble Address be presented to his Majesty, in answer to the most gracious Speech, I am not unmindful of the difficulties which I have to encounter in support of the task I have undertaken, nor of my inability to do justice to the important subjects contained in that Speech. It would be presumptuous in one so young and inexperienced as I am, and who have

5
had the honour of a seat in your House for so short a period, to venture to give opinions at length, or to enter into a discussion on the various topics contained in his Majesty's Speech. I shall, therefore, confine myself to such few observations and reasons as may occur to me, claiming, at the same time, the indulgence of your lordships, feeling that it was never more necessary, nor more unfeignedly requested than on the present occasion, [hear] My lords, the strong assurances which his Majesty has been pleased to inform us he still continues to receive from the different states of Europe, of their anxiety to maintain and cultivate the relations of peace with this country, must be a subject of congratulation, as it holds out to us the prospect that peace will be lasting. This nation is too much involved in the general interests of Europe not to view with satisfaction the intelligence that peace has been established between Russia and the Ottoman Porte; therefore, it is most satisfactory to learn that the warfare between these two neighbouring states which had so long existed, is happily terminated, for who could contemplate the conflict carried on without fearing that the ravages of war might be extended to other states of Europe? We cannot but hear, my lords, with satisfaction, of his Majesty's unremitting offices with his allies to carry into effect the Treaty of July 6th, 1827. I trust that your lordships will think with me, that this is not the period to enter into the details on that topic of the Speech, but that you will wait until his Majesty shall make those disclosures respecting the measures carried on with his allies as regards the situation of Greece. The measures are of great importance, as putting an end to warfare and bloodshed, and as tending to raise up a people who have been so long plunged into misery and ruin, and to give to them a station which they have not enjoyed among the nations of Europe.—With regard to Portugal, my lords, it is impossible that we can view with indifference the proceedings there going forward, considering how long have been our peculiarly friendly relations with that country. Those friendly relations must continue to be interesting to a country which for so long a period of time has been our ally. I trust that his Majesty's exertions will effect a reconciliation between the two branches of the House of Braganza, and that the diplomatic rela-
6
tions which have been so long interrupted between the two countries may be again established. One of the most important questions which will come before your lordships is the revision of the Courts of Law—with a view of expediting and facilitating the course of justice in different parts of the United Kingdom. Every one of your lordships, I am sure, will agree in the proposition, that it is expedient that some alteration should be made in the administration of justice. I feel convinced of the necessity of such a proceeding, more particularly as respects the country with which I am more immediately connected. [hear, hear] I am sure a vast advantage will arise from expediting the course of justice, which while it allows the law to be faithfully executed, shall shorten the tedious process of a lawsuit. Revision will be advantageous by which obsolete laws shall be abolished, and those which are unsuitable to the present condition of society shall be better adapted to its wants. [hear, hear] No one, my lords, can be ignorant of, nor view with indifference, the unparalleled distress under which the agricultural and manufacturing classes are at present labouring in many parts of the country. I am not disposed to consider that the distresses now felt are so desperate, or so universal, as some have represented, or as other persons would wish to have it believed; nor do I think they will continue, or that there is reason to despond. Despondency ought not to be encouraged or excited. But this is a subject of vast importance for your lordships to consider, and one which, requires great judgment and caution in your deliberations, but upon which I will not now enter. I would fain hope, my lords, that it is only a temporary distress which is felt, and that it will be alleviated and removed. In the consideration of this subject, we must give due weight to the two late unfavourable seasons which the agriculturists have experienced. To the many difficulties with which they have had to contend, must be added the expending of their capital in getting in the harvest, which, when secured, proved so indifferent. I will not, however, enter into any detail; it is a subject of too vast importance to be discussed now, and one upon which I do not feel capable of entering. But, my lords, although there is distress among the agriculturists and the manufacturers in parts of the country, have

7
we not a subject of congratulation in the fact mentioned in his Majesty's most gracious Speech, that the export of British produce and manufactures during the last year has exceeded that of any former year? This, is surely a subject of congratulation, and I think warrants me in the conclusion to which I have come, that the evils complained of are not deep rooted. Your lordships are not ignorant that we have now the manufacturers of other countries to contend against. Formerly this was the only nation where manufactures were extensively carried on; now every nation is turning its attention to manufactures. We have, therefore, to compete with foreign markets in our manufactured articles, and this has lowered the profits of our manufacturers. My lords, I trust that whenever any measure shall be brought forward in this House connected with this subject, your lordships will avoid any thing that may tend to show the people that we entertain apprehensions on the subject. My lords, the population of this country will naturally look to your lordships for example—and, therefore, when the discussion is brought forward, it should be our endeavour to encourage the people rather than dishearten them— to persuade them to cherish the expectation of their distresses being removed, rather than induce them to suppose that they are—which they assuredly are not— permanent. But whenever the expected measure, whatever it may be, shall be brought forward, I trust that we shall see nothing advanced which may cause to the public creditor any hazard of his property. The country has maintained its high character in times of greater difficulty than the present. We are now at peace. I am persuaded that the distress felt is of a temporary description. I have, my lords, particularly avoided entering into the details connected with this important subject; but before I conclude, I trust I may be permitted to express a hope that when it is brought before your lordships in a regular way, you will pay it your undivided attention, and not make it the subject of daily conversation which can produce no beneficial results, and may contribute to alarm the people and increase and exaggerate the real evils. The noble duke concluded with moving the Address, which will be found at p. 121, together with his Majesty's most gracious Answer.
Lord Saltounseconded the Address.
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He said, in doing so, I must state that I unfeignedly agree in all the arguments adduced by the noble duke to induce your lordships to go along with him. It must be particularly gratifying to your lordships to find that the state of peace continues, which has now lasted for a longer period than this country has formerly enjoyed, and which promises, from the confidence reposed in our government by other governments, to be lasting. With respect to the termination of the war in the East, though it did not directly interfere with the interest of England, it was thought advantageous for the future peace of Europe that Turkey should be maintained. What arguments may have been used to prevent us from entering into war, I am not aware; but it must be evident to every man acquainted with the power of the two parties, that no other result, except one more disastrous, could have been anticipated. Turkey, however, has now been spared, and that power may have time to revive and improve its advantages. As to the Treaty of July 6th, I shall take no notice of that, as the measures relating to it will be submitted to your lordships hereafter. It must be a matter of regret to your lordships that our diplomatic relations with Portugal should have been so long suspended. Our commerce is hence cramped and fettered by the want of those forms which give facility to communication between governments. It has not been in our power, however, to avoid this interruption. With respect to the right of the two parties, I have no doubt that, in law, the eldest branch has the right to the throne; but the Portuguese nation have thought proper to adopt the younger branch, and it is consistent neither with the policy nor the interest of this country to interfere with any nation, and make it choose what ruler we please. I trust, however that the interruption will not be of much longer duration, and that before long the diplomatic relations will be restored to the same state as formerly existed between the two countries. The next subject mentioned in his Majesty's Speech is addressed to the House of Commons, and it must be satisfactory to the country to hear that, at the same time that the expenditure of the country is to be diminished, the efficiency of the naval and military forces is not to be impaired. His Majesty's Speech informs us, too, my lords, that the state of the administration of justice is to

9
be revised. I, for one, am too little acquainted with the subject to enter into details; but I must say, that if the measures for altering the law, particularly as far as the country I represent is concerned, shall make its operation more expeditious, and not prevent substantial justice being done, and shall also assist in fixing the law, they will be a great advantage to the country. The distresses of parts of the country I deeply regret, although I look on them as but of a temporary nature. No doubt, very great distress exists now, and has existed for some time past, among the manufacturers and agriculturists in many parts of the country. Whatever may be the causes of that distress, it has been of too long duration to be wholly attributable to the currency; several other causes have contributed to promote that distress. Some persons have said that it was over-production; others that it was the change of the currency; and others have stated different causes, and proposed different remedies. Looking at the whole question, I cannot say that any one cause in particular has brought it about, or that any remedy yet proposed will remove it. In the first place, it arises from the change which has taken place from obtaining large profit on small ventures, to gat ting only small profits on large transactions. In other words, my lords, during the war the whole trade and manufactures of the world were thrown into our hands, and we supplied the whole continent with all the colonial product it received; we not only carried goods and manufactures then for all the world, but were also able to sell our manufactures at our own price, for there was no opposition. When the peace came, our machinery was adopted in other countries. Other manufacturers came into the market, prices were lowered, and our people could not make the same profit on the same outlay. If a manufacturer were now obliged to make one hundred bales of goods to realize the same profit as he formerly obtained on sixty bales, he must be so much worse off, and could not afford to pay his workmen the same rate of wages; that brought on the manufacturers' distress. The manufacturers not being so well paid as they were formerly, could not give the same prices for agricultural produce, and could not consume so much of it, and this is the source of the distress of the agriculturists. That distress was felt formerly as well as now—it was felt in
10
1819 and 1820, and before any change had taken place in the currency. Respecting the currency, however, I must say that the change has so long existed, that all the mischief that it can do it has done; but no change in the situation of the country which has taken place can be wholly attributed to the existing law. In Scotland, where no change had taken place, and where the banks were not fettered, there was some distress. There was a time, I know, when some alarm was felt that the alteration in the banking system would be extended to Scotland, and then the banks limited their issues. Now, however, that alarm has passed away, and the banks issue their notes to the same extent as before; and accommodation can be obtained in that country to as great an extent as ever. I regret very much the distress of the agriculturists; for I have no other property than land. I shall certainly be ready to give my best attentions to any measures which may come before your lordships relating to this subject. I will not detain your lordships—I do not intend, I never did intend to trespass at length on your lordships, and I shall now conclude by seconding the Address.
Earl Stanhopesaid:—My Lords, I should consider it a base dereliction of my duty not to take this, the earliest, opportunity, of stating my opinion to your lordships. Under a state of difficulty and distress, universal in extent, and unequalled in intensity, it behoves your lordships to address the Throne, not in the language of compliment, but of truth; discharging with decision and firmness our duty to our country, for the benefit of which we have received political power. I am never disposed to treat any of the speeches from the Throne with disrespect, but I must speak plainly of this. A speech, I must say, more inept and more inappropriate was never delivered from the Throne. In the country there was unusual distress, universal in its extent, unprecedented in its degree, intolerable in its pressure. After congratulating Parliament upon the close of the war in Turkey, we are informed that distress prevails amongst the agricultural and manufacturing classes in "some" parts of the United Kingdom. Surely it would have been much more correct for his Majesty to have told us that unexampled distress prevails in every class, and every interest J [hear] When the Speech informs us

11
that distress prevails in some parts of the country, and among some classes of the community—the people at large would be most grateful to the noble duke, or to any other noble lord who will point out that terra incognita in which distress does not prevail, [hear, hear] Then we are warned that we should proceed with extreme caution; and what, let me ask, is the plain English of this warning? It means nothing more nor less than this—"You, the people of England, manufacturers as well as agriculturists, are in a state of great suffering, but use extreme caution, and take great care that you do not get out of it." [cheers] This is as much as to tell a man who has fallen into a deep river, and is likely to be drowned, "take great care you do not, in attempting to get out, make your situation worse." To me the danger seems most imminent; and we are so far removed from a situation to which such language can be applicable, that it is our bounden duty, as we are now nearly destroyed, to take care that our interests are not quite annihilated. Neither can I. derive any consolation from the opinion, or hope, expressed by the noble duke who moved the Address, that the distress is only temporary. That source of consolation has been often open to us, and has as repeatedly been disappointed by the event. We were heretofore told in metaphorical language that the light clouds that cast a temporary shade will soon pass away; and that the sun will again break forth in all his wonted splendour! Instead of passing away, we have seen the sky thicken and blacken, and we have waited in vain for the return of promised sunshine. No man who really knows the situation of the country can contemplate it without dismay. The noble duke says "Do not excite feelings of despondency." I am not apt to despond—it is not the character or temper of my mind—but I do say that my feelings will and must be those of utter despondency if a remedy be not speedily discovered and administered. The language of the Speech appears to be the more extraordinary and the less excusable, because the noble duke at the head of his Majesty's Treasury must be well acquainted with the true condition of the country. He must be acquainted, not only with the particular pressure, but with the general existence of that distress which is described in such feeble terms in the Speech from the Throne, The noble
12
duke has travelled much in the course of the last summer, and though he has visited various parts of the country for a different purpose, yet I still may venture to hope that he was not without a disposition to gain information on the state and condition of the people. He must, therefore, know from his own experience, the universality as well as the severity of the distress. He must know it, too, from the county meetings lately held in different parts of the kingdom; although, on a former occasion, the noble duke was pleased to call the proceedings of county meetings "a farce." [hear, hear] I will not stay to inquire whether the proceedings of any other assembly, at no great distance from this place, are much more enlightened or may hot betterment the application of that term, [cheers, and a laugh] The noble duke must also know the extent and weight of the distress from the remonstrances presented from grand juries in different quarters of the country. He must know it from the representations of other kinds, poured in upon government; and yet in the Speech I see no hope of relief— no promise even that the sufferings of the people shall receive the consolation of inquiry. I regret this circumstance most deeply, for the sake of the inhabitants of this unhappy and ill-governed country. I regret it also for the sake of the noble duke himself, for whom, as far as regards his former career, I can, in common with the rest of my countrymen, entertain no other sentiments than those of admiration and gratitude. But that noble duke, who was then placed on a pinnacle of glory which no man before had attained, and who had acquired a reputation never equalled by any man in the annals of our history, save the great Marlborough, had every thing to lose and nothing to gain by becoming prime minister. And what new laurels has he gained? He found the vessel of the state surrounded by rocks and quick sands, and yet he consented to steer the very same course which had been so ruinously pursued by his predecessors at the helm. He persevered in the same system, and adopted the same errors which had occasioned all our difficulties and dangers, which were now universally felt, and were the subject of such general complaint. He has adopted all the errors and followed all the mistakes of his predecessors. What new laurels, I repeat then, has he gained? Where, let me ask, is the

13
glory of acting, not as the head and chief of an independent administration, but as the mere deputy of the administration he succeeded? He may reply, "I am the minister who granted Catholic emancipation:" it is not my intention now to enter into this topic—I have no wish to resuscitate the animosities of the debates which took place upon it; let them be considered dead and buried, but still I must remind your lordships that that measure was unwillingly extorted from the noble duke by the menaces, denunciations, and intimidations of the Roman Catholic board, [hear, hear] If we contemplate the distresses of the country, we shall find them not limited to agriculture alone, which the noble duke justly considers the most secure basis of national prosperity and power: we shall find that it extends itself also to the manufacturing interests, and that the trade and commerce of the kingdom are proportionably suffering. Does not this state of things then imperiously demand immediate investigation? If I do not on this occasion minutely enter into the details I should otherwise be desirous of furnishing, it is solely because it will be my duty, in the course of a few days, as soon as noble lords shall have arrived in town to take part in the debate, to move for a committee of the whole House to inquire into the state of the nation, as far as regards its internal condition. I shall, therefore, limit the investigation merely to our domestic situation; and I cannot suppose that the noble duke is the only man in the empire who is ignorant of the real state of the nation. And will any one deny that an inquiry is not imperiously demanded? The people have a right to know, through the medium of parliamentary investigation, whether their distresses are as partial and temporary as they are represented, or whether, as I contend, and as I shall be able on the proper occasion to prove, they are not permanent, and do not arise from mistaken legislative measures which it is necessary to repeal? We are told, in the Speech from the Throne, to assign due weight to the effect of unfavourable seasons and other causes; but what those other causes are we are only left to conjecture. As to unfavourable seasons, we know that the invariable effect of them has hitherto been to injure the producers of grain; but has it been a usual effect of unfavourable seasons to lower the price of grain [hear]. It was an absurdity without
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a parallel. Really the person who forced this notion into the royal Speech must have formed a very mean opinion of the capacities of those to whom it was to be addressed. Who, from the beginning of the world to the present day, ever heard of such a monstrous absurdity as is now attempted to be palmed upon us, for the sake of preventing inquiry, and for the sake of shutting out light as clear as that of the sun at noon-day, that bad seasons have the effect of lowering the price of corn? Why has the price of corn been lowered? It is the consequence of pernicious measures founded upon no just principle, or rather upon no principle at all. I had the honour to propose an amendment to the proposition of the noble duke on this subject, which amendment had for its object the fixing of the scale so as to afford a remunerating price to the grower. The price of grain has not fallen in consequence of unfavourable seasons, but in consequence of that cause which was so truly and forcibly stated by my noble friend, whose loss I cannot sufficiently deplore. He was one of the brightest ornaments of this House, and his virtues and talents were as a tower of strength to the country. [hear] I need not add that I allude to the late lord Redesdale, who truly described the measure of Mr. Peel as an act of wrong and robbery. [hear] But if such be the effect upon corn, is that a reason why other agricultural produce is to fall also? The absurdities upon this subject, and points connected with it, are so great, that a person gravely told me that the depression in the price of butter and cheese arose from the superabundance of grass, in consequence of the extreme wetness of the late season, [laugh] He however mentioned these facts to show how little is known of the real grievances of the country; and to illustrate to what absurd shifts they resorted who were determined to shut their eyes to the state of the country. But passing the question as to corn, did anybody ever hear of an unfavourable season lowering the price of wool? That is a part of the system I cannot too strongly reprobate, for upon that principle one portion of the community is plundered for the supposed profit of another portion. In the outset of that system the wool-grower was plundered, that some benefit might accrue to the manufacturer; and the result of the experiment has been what I always contended it would be, that while the wool-grower has

15
been reduced to a state of pauperism, the manufacturer has not been benefited—by the decay of the home-market he has lost his best, surest, and most extensive customer. I also wish to know whether unfavourable seasons have, or are supposed to have, an unfavourable effect on the trade and manufactures of the country? It would be quite as rational to say that their condition is to be attributed to the present severity of the weather. The expression of unavailing regret is, however, to be checked, and the country is merely to be told that its sufferings are beyond the reach of parliamentary interference and remedy. If I thought that such was really the case, I should indeed entertain a gloomy and desponding view of the state of the country. But nevertheless the country is now rapidly approaching that condition which threatens to tear asunder all the bonds that unite human society. It is impossible to state this evil in language too strong; the result will be not only danger, but destruction, if remedy for our difficulties be not afforded. Then, I conjure your lordships, for your own honour —for the sake of the discharge of the duty the people have a right to expect from you, to examine the case with a view to the discovery of some method of relief. You were truly and eloquently told by a learned and eminent counsel at your baron a memorable occasion, that you cannot flourish, nay, that you cannot long continue to exist, if once you lose the affection and confidence of the people, that you must fade and wither like the blossoms struck from the tree. Is this the way to secure the affection and confidence of the people, or is this the way for your lordships to discharge your high and important duties? Are you to obtain the affection and confidence of the people by agreeing to an Address which, from one end of the kingdom to the other, must be received with contempt and derision, [hear] There is no part of the country which does not begin to think for itself, and to examine for itself the nature, extent, causes, and remedies for the existing evils; and to have adverted to them in the royal Speech would have been far more proper than to talk of legal inquiries. This I can call only a wilful attempt to divert the attention of parliament from the real, true, and what will soon become the intolerable, grievance of the nation. Why, otherwise, does what is said about the consideration of measures for the better administration
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of justice occupy so prominent a place in the Speech? No doubt, at the proper time, those would be important subjects of investigation; but what should we say of the wisdom of any individual, who, when his house was on fire, set to work busily to examine his banker's book? [hear] Whether the opinions of the people will be expressed in petitions to this House, or whether they will be addressed to another quarter, I know not; but if, in the course of the present session, no petitions are presented, I must thus early protest against the inference that this silence is to be considered the test of the indifference of public opinion, or the absence of all cause of complaint. Let it be recollected that the petitions of the people to this House have been treated with neglect—that it was said that they had been "got up." I wish those who dared to make this assertion would endeavour to "get up" some petitions for the continuance of the present system. Let any man in any part of the kingdom, and with reference to any interest, try to get up a petition praying that the present distresses may be continued; and let us see what will be the result? If petitions are not presented, it may arise from another cause, to which, as a member of this House, it is painful for me to advert. It will show general distrust of parliament, from the base servility it has, on different occasions, exhibited. I speak not now of one set of principles, or of another. I recollect that the late lord Liverpool, who presided over his Majesty's councils from the end of the war till 1819, pursued a system which was then considered, as I now consider it, sound in principle; and he was supported by a large majority of this House. When the same lord Liverpool subsequently departed from that sound principle as regarded currency, free trade, the navigation laws, and many other vital questions, the complaisancy of this House still gave him its support. To regain the confidence of the country you must adopt some course of inquiry which may ultimately extricate us from our present difficulties. It is mainly to save this House from the disgrace, ridicule, and scorn (for I cannot use milder terms), to which it will be exposed if it adopt the Address of the noble mover, that I shall propose an amendment, which has this recommendation—that it will neither prejudge the causes of the present distresses, nor the remedies that ought to be

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applied to them: it merely pledges parliament to institute a minute inquiry into the distresses, with a view to the amelioration of the condition of the suffering classes in all parts of the country. The terms of it will be these:—"That this House views with the deepest sorrow and anxiety the severe distress which now afflicts the country, and will immediately proceed to examine its causes, and the means of administering speedy and effectual relief." Should I be unsuccessful—as I probably may be—I shall then enter my protest against any further proceeding; and in a very short time, as soon as a sufficiently numerous attendance can be obtained, I Shall submit a motion for inquiry, not by any "select" committee of members to be named by the noble duke, but an inquiry by the whole House, into the state of the nation as regards its internal condition. That course will not preclude any noble lord, who may think proper, to bring forward any inquiry into our foreign relations. That is not my intention to do; first, because I cannot pretend to be sufficiently informed on the subject; secondly, because, though I may see much to deplore in our foreign policy, I also see much to admire in the pacific course adopted by the noble duke; thirdly, because I wish to secure the votes of those who may agree with me on the question of domestic policy, though they may be of a very different sentiment with respect to our conduct to foreign powers.
Upon the question of our internal situation I shall certainly take the sense of the House. I know not how many may vote with me; but, feeling as I do, I should think it an act of baseness not to introduce the subject, and I know that I shall be supported by some whose opinions I most reverence. It was my intention to have entered at some length into the state of the various interests of the country, and especially into the pressure produced by the alteration of the currency; a measure that has actually raised the present amount of taxes above the sum paid by the country in the last and most expensive year of the war. The noble duke seems to indicate his concurrence in this position; and if he agrees with me, let me ask how is it possible for the nation to bear that enormous and intolerable burthen of taxation, with a diminished consumption in every branch of produce, trade, and manufactures? The most convenient mode of inquiry would be
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by a committee of the whole House; and, if your lordships shall refuse it, all I can say is, that in my view you will bring upon yourselves indelible disgrace, and desert your duty in a manner which will not be forgotten, and ought not to be forgiven. You will then be justly considered unworthy to hold the station you occupy, since you neglect its most imperative duties. If you wish to turn distress into despair and disaffection—if you wish to extend through the country, not a spirit of temperate and salutary change, but the wildest and most sweeping doctrines of parliamentary reform, you cannot adopt a course more efficacious than refusing to hear the grievances of the nation, and, if possible, to apply a remedy. All the arguments in favour of parliamentary reform will thus acquire double strength, and there will be nothing to oppose them but weakness and distrust. On a future occasion I shall endeavour, in more detail, to show the manner in which the best interests of the country have been wilfully attacked and injured, by obstinate adherence to misgovernment and false principles; I therefore shall not, on the present occasion, trouble the House further than by reading the Amendment I propose. [His lordship concluded by again reading the terms of his Amendment: it was agreed, after some conversation with the Lord Chancellor, that it should commence from "United Kingdom" at the end of the tenth paragraph to the end of the Address.]
Viscount Goderichsaid:—My lords, although it is my intention to support the Address proposed by the noble duke, and to oppose the Amendment, I beg to assure the noble earl, that among the many considerations which have induced me to take that course, cannot be reckoned any insensibility to the distresses I know and feel to prevail to so great an extent, and which, were it within our power, it is clearly within our duty to redress. I feel, if I were to acquiesce in the Amendment, I should only be lending myself to a delusion. [hear] Before, however, I proceed to make any remarks upon that part of the subject to which the noble earl has so emphatically called your lordships' attention, I shall beg leave to advert to some other matters noticed in his Majesty's Speech. Although I feel, and deeply feel, that there is nothing so strongly interesting to our hearts and consciences as the condition of the country, when in a state of such un-

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exampled distress, I cannot think that we are therefore called upon to neglect the consideration of other great questions in which the welfare of the nation is essentially involved. It would, indeed, be a great misfortune to befal the country, if, because we were suffering distresses of a very severe kind, we should shut our eyes to those great questions in which, not on account of the mere interest they excite at the present moment, but of the effect they must produce on the latest posterity, a paramount degree of importance is involved. I particularly allude to the contemplated improvement and melioration of the mode of administering justice. It would indeed be a great misfortune if we were to shut our eyes upon all the great questions which the present state of circumstances has created, merely because some of them are not connected with the internal condition of the country. These are questions which I hope your lordships will not consider of so little importance as to think that our internal distresses will justify you in passing them by in silence —I mean those which have a relation to the foreign connections of this country. With regard to that subject, the Speech expresses the satisfaction with which his Majesty views the termination of the war between Russia and the Ottoman Porte. If the words "view with satisfaction," relate solely to the pleasure his Majesty has derived from seeing the termination of a war, which was not only attended, as all wars are, with many calamities in itself, but which was likely, from the interests involved, and the parties engaged in it, sooner or later to have dragged every great power in Europe into the contest, I most heartily concur with them; but if they are intended to express a satisfactory feeling created by the mode in which the war has terminated, and the conditions that have been imposed, then I cannot concur with that portion of the Speech. [hear] I am willing to believe, that the first sense is that in which the words have been used. With respect to the mode in which that war has been terminated, I never entertained an opinion that it could come to any other end. I never conceived how any man who looked at all to the course of events in that country, in connection with those in other European States, could fail to see, that for the last hundred and thirty years the power of the Turk has dwindled, every day, whilst the
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power of those states, which would be the most likely to contend in warfare against him, have been progressively and naturally increasing. The principles of his government and of his faith make it impossible for him to advance with the advance of others; they were those of a blind, prejudiced, stupid, fanatic; while those powers, whose fear before restrained them, but whose cupidity is now awakened by the hope of deriving benefit from his weakness, have been making a daily progress in those arts which at first render a country independent of, and afterwards superior to, her less civilized neighbours. This has been strongly exemplified with respect to Turkey. There has not been a single war in which the Turk has engaged within the last hundred and thirty years without coming out of it somewhat shorn of his previous strength. I was, from the first, perfectly convinced that nothing could save him from the consequences of his conduct in the approaching war but a combination of the other powers—a coalition that he should never have counselled. I know that my opinion was one which was by no means general. Great pains were taken to propagate others; a directly contrary opinion was indeed ardently diffused by some persons—we were told that orders had been given to the Pacha to collect troops. God knows how many troops were to be brought together from one quarter or another; and it was said that the defeat of the invader was certain. I believe that that opinion was generally entertained in this country. The Pacha received orders to collect troops no doubt, but there were no troops to collect, and he was engaged in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain the means of resisting a most formidable aggression—a fact which was not noticed in this country, but which was one of a most important nature. And then, as to the Sultan, we were told indeed a great deal as to his energy and vigour, but I confess I never could discover any signs of energy or vigour, even in that act of his life which has been the subject of so much admiration. I saw nothing in it, on the one hand, but a cold and reckless indifference to human life when a favourite object was in view — the destruction of eight or ten or twelve thousand men being considered as nothing; and on the other, a hasty determination to do a certain act without at all providing for its consequences. For when he had succeeded in

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destroying the praetorian bands which menaced his security, and held the despot in their hands, he took no measures to secure another military body for the guard of his empire in their place. I therefore say, that I considered that act as anything but one of vigour, courage, or wisdom; and I felt sure, that in consequence of it, he must, when he was attacked, consent to an unconditional submission. I believe the Sultan was misled—I believe that great pains were taken by a certain individual to induce him to act as he did both towards Russia and Greece. Such individual, it is true, has been since disowned by his government, but I believe that his representations were to this effect: "Don't listen to France, to Russia, or to England; do what you please, they will quarrel among themselves; stand firm, and you will be sure of a successful issue of the struggle." But quarrel amongst themselves they did not; and the Sultan, deceived by false hopes, was unfortunately urged on to his own destruction. I say unfortunately, because, though I am not a lover of the Turk, and do not hold in respect the principles of his government, and set no great value on his political attachment to this country—I yet do not wish to see him crushed; and by no means do I wish to see him, by this, or any other country, driven from the position he occupies, and left to his fate. I do not wish to see him driven precipitately to his fate, and thereby leave open territories so valuable, and that would excite the cupidity of any power who might wish to possess them: that is a result which no one can contemplate with unmixed satisfaction. That part of the Speech on this subject, which gave me the most satisfaction, was the announcement that the terms of the pacification and settlement of Greece were likely soon to be adjusted; and adjusted, I should hope, on the basis of the Treaty of the 6th of July. I am not prepared to say that such treaty has not been honourably executed, and I will not say what might be thought of the first steps of the French government; but I do think, that the body of French troops sent into that country were not sent without the bona fide intention of carrying the stipulations of that treaty for the liberation of Greece into effect. If I am asked whether I anticipate anything unsatisfactory in the details of the pacification, I can only answer, that so far as we are yet
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informed, there has been a reasonable extension of territory conceded to the Greeks, and that I am not disposed to quarrel with the doctrines of a monarchy as the first principle of their future government. I will not enter into the question how far that principle may be consistent with the future form of that government, or how far the interference of others should extend in its first settlement; but I will say, that a government of that kind appears to me to be more likely to lead to something stable, definite, and intelligible for Greece, than if it were left to chance or to a diversity of interests, which, unguided by any principle, might but excite fears, jealousies, and other unpleasant sensations among the various governments of Europe, and render it doubtful how long the present peaceful relations of its different countries might continue. I will now say one word with respect to Portugal: I felt a strong degree of interest respecting that country, and I was not without doubts as to the course his majesty's government might pursue. That this matter has not been conducted to a satisfactory issue (and to do that the government has no easy task to perform) we learn from the Speech itself, which informs us that no specific settlement can yet be anticipated. If I were to venture to predict anything, it would be that Don Miguel will be recognised by this country. I am not prepared to say that I object to the fact of his being recognised. Circumstances may render it impossible for this country not to take that course; but if so, I hope it will be the recognition of him by England, and by England alone, without relation to any other power on earth. I hope it will be such a recognition as to call on Portutugal for a return of friendship and good offices for so disinterested an act; and lastly, I hope, that if Don Miguel be recognised, we shall not leave unfortunate men, who had been persecuted on account of their patriotic attachment, still to suffer as the victims of tyranny, [hear] but that their hard fate may be mitigated by the influence of British councils. From what I have both heard and seen, I fear it will not be mitigated without such interference. I say I do hope that the unhappy victims of oppression and illegal outrage will not be left to suffer perpetual exile, and cruel poverty, not for their crimes, but for their virtues, [cheers] I will take the liberty now, if I have not

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already intruded a little too far, of turning from this part of the subject to the topics more specifically alluded to by the noble earl. As far as I can judge from the general tenor of his observations, the two great objects he has in view are to take measures to get rid of the "pestilent heresy," as it had been called, of free trade, and to diminish the amount of the taxes by paying them in a different currency, or to retrace our steps on the subject of the currency. As to the first of these matters I will just observe one thing. Whenever I have met these violent opponents of free trade, and have questioned them' on their opinions, I have never been able to find one who could tell me what his notion of free trade was, still less what laws of trade had been altered—in what degree the alteration had taken place, and what was the effect of the alteration on the object which it affected; and I firmly believe that whenever we shall come to the discussion of this question, we shall be left by these persons as much in the dark as we hitherto have been. What says the noble earl, and what have a thousand others said, on the subject of wool? There have been violent declamations respecting the introduction of foreign wool at a low duty; and those who have thus admitted it have been stigmatized as heartless theorists, and indeed as little better than demons,—But those who advise us, in this respect, to follow what they call the "wisdom of our ancestors" seem to forget that it was those very ancestors who let freely, and without restraint, foreign wool come into this kingdom, [hear] If the wisdom of our ancestors is worth a straw, it is good against the duty, not in favour of it; for it was not until 1819 that a high duty was levied on it. They encouraged the importation of foreign wool. They may have been wrong; but whether they were or not, do let us call things by their right names, and not thus mistake facts, and then raise false inferences upon them. There is nothing more important in discussing a question of this kind, than that we should be quite certain of the premises on which we start; and we shall only get into difficulties, if we ascribe to certain causes things which do not arise out of them. I shall say nothing further on this subject now, but shall reserve myself for any general discussion on it. I will now say one word on the question of the currency. There
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is no idea more prevalent on this subject than that which was dwelt on by the noble earl; namely, a notion that the currency having changed has produced an increase of taxation, [hear, hear] That 'hear, hear' is just what I wanted; it she we the truth of what I have stated. Now the notion to which I have alluded would be quite correct if the amount of money paid in taxes were the same now as in the time of the depreciated currency. But what is the fact? In 1815, in the hey-day of our glory, the amount of taxes levied was somewhat more than the enormous amount of eighty millions. If the depreciation had been charged, as it may fairly be calculated, at 30 per cent, the amount would have been fifty-six millions. So that fifty six millions now are equivalent to eighty millions of that time. The same taxes, therefore, as were levied (including the property-tax) in 1815, and which then produced eighty millions, would, if levied now, produce fifty-six millions. It is a curious fact that the amount levied last year did produce just that sum. But we know that considerable reductions have taken place—I do not say that every thing has been reduced to its full extent; that the government has done all that they could, and the noble earl asks how they can expect to raise the same amount as in a depreciated currency? But what followed the bill on the subject of the currency? Did it follow that because the currency had been rectified there was a diminished production of manufactures and other produce, or of consumption? The truth was, a reduction of taxation had taken place to a very great extent antecedently to 1823. From that period, and previously to 1826, a reduction to the extent of nine millions had taken place; so that if the consumption were the same in 1827 as in 1823, there would be a diminished receipt of nine millions. But what was the fact? The diminution in the revenue did not exceed three millions; and if it were calculated in 1828, it would be found not to have gone beyond one million. This is only to be accounted for by an increased consumption of the necessary articles of life. The cause of this must have been, either that the population has increased, or that the people are able to consume more than they did. I care not one straw, so far as the argument goes, which of the two is taken to be the fact; for the result of either must

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show that the pressure has been lightened, or that the people have increased means of consumption. I will go into these matters more in detail at a future time, but I felt so strongly on the subject, that I was obliged to say thus much now in answer to the objections urged against the "pestilent heresy" of free trade, and the pernicious tendency of the currency-bill. I know that all feel the pressure of the times. I feel them deeply myself, but still more do I feel for those I who are less able to bear them; but I do; not think the things I have referred to are the causes of that pressure. I am not prepared to give my unqualified confidence to his majesty's government; but I do not come here to embarrass them. I hope others do not; and I will do my best to support them in the course they have adopted on these subjects, for I conceive it to be of infinitely more importance to continue in this course than to suffer oneself to be led away by errors on these great subjects, in order to make them the means of attacking, I had almost said assaulting, an administration, in order to triumph in their discomfiture; a measure, the consequences of which, if thus occasioned, few can truly foresee. If ever I had any political hostility to the present administration, I have buried it in the grave of the Catholic question. My sole object is to do the best I can to aid them or others in that course of government which I conceive to be beneficial; and if the ministry, instead of turning round are prepared to maintain the conduct they have hitherto adopted, I for one, shall not grudge them the possession of their office.
The Duke of Richmondsaid: but for the line of argument pursued by the noble viscount, especially on the subject of the wool-trade and duty, he should not on the present occasion have trespassed on their lordships' attention. The noble duke declared that he had only named the wool question because he thought that the wool-trade had been unfairly excepted from the general rule, and was not protected in the same ratio as others. He could refer to papers to show that it was not equally protected with others, he guarded against going into the subject of free trade, and had expressed no opinion on it, and therefore he ought not to have been charged with improperly referring to our ancestors' conduct on that subject. There was now
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three years' growth of wool on hand; the farmer could not get rid of his produce, and the manufacturer felt at second hand the distress inflicted on the farmer. The land-owners and occupiers were on the verge of ruin; and the labourers were existing, if existence it could be called, on the miserable pittance which the parish officers with difficulty collected for their support. Many of their lordships knew, if they attended to their magisterial duties, that many of the labourers were without the means of existence. He was not sanguine enough to suppose that his arguments would have any great weight there, but out of doors they would have their effect. The noble viscount said it would be a delusion to hold out a hope that parliament could provide a remedy for this evil. Were their lordships then to tell the labourer and manufacturer that they must starve? Were they to tell the yeomanry that there was no remedy for them but patience? That was not the language to hold to them in their distresses. He should not however shrink from the performance of his duty, although he might be exposed to the serious charge, by so doing, of "assaulting" he believed was the word—the administration. Not that he had any wish to assault the government, but he hoped that the expression of opinion in the House would be strong enough to show the noble duke that their lordships intended to do their duty to their country, and to act with justice to all. There were some points of the Address which he was happy to hear, even at this late period; he meant the allusion to the courts of law. He hoped that amendments would be adopted with respect to the court of Chancery and that the plans of the intended reforms would not be suffered to lie idly on that table.[hear]
The Earl of Caernarvonconsidered the language used in the Speech to be quite unworthy of our most gracious sovereign, and were only the expressions of those who now formed his councils. They alone must be answerable for them. On the whole, he must say that they were a most insulting, unfeeling, and cold-blooded allusion to the distresses of the country. He had felt a painful sensation in reading them; especially the confusion and incapacity manifested in the words which were put into the mouth of the sovereign, as to the impossibility of relieving the distresses.

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Yet the House were recommended to adhere to that course which, year after year, had been attended with increasing distress, and when the only cases in the wilderness of distress were those exhibited by the country when that course was departed; from. He admitted that there might be minor concurrent causes of distress; but the great and overwhelming cause which had brought down this country from the pinnacle of prosperity to its present depression, was, the line of conduct which the ministers, within the last few years, had thought fit to adopt. He could conceive nothing like the scattered allusions of the most extraordinary Speech. He, for his part, believed that it would be difficult to persuade the country that the state of the seasons, that a wet summer or a cold winter, had occasioned the general distress. He would call to the recollection of the House one circumstance of recent occurrence, which would at once put an end to all arguments upon the distress arising from the present season. Noble lords must recollect that the years 1816 and 1817 presented the worst seasons almost within memory. Now the country was placed, at the present moment, precisely in the situation in which it stood at the commencement of 1818; but was the distress to be compared? So far from it, 1818 was like an "oasis rising in the desert"; it was an era of bright, though, as it turned out, of illusory prosperity. Had the country, at the present moment, any such prospects of prosperity either in the agricultural, manufacturing, or commercial interests? No man would contend that prosperity was brightening. But the government had felt the distresses of 1816 and 1817, and they became alarmed at their own operations. They deferred their resumption of cash payments for two years: the dreary scene never had brightened, except on the occasion of temporary relaxation of those ill-fated measures taking place; and in those intervals a gleam of prosperity had returned on our affairs. Not only did the ministers do this, but if his recollection did not fail him, there was then an issue of seven million of Exchequer-bills, the Bank of England made an issue of three million of small notes, and there was a proportionate issue made by the private bankers. All this countervailed the inclemency of the season; and was not this plain fact better than speculative calculations, and
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the best of all arguments, in reply to all that was ever said about the wet summer? The distresses of the country were treated, however, as if they were of a trivial nature. He much lamented that so important a subject, one on which the happiness, prosperity, health, and lives of millions were dependent, should have been treated so lightly by those whose duty demanded a very different course of conduct. The noble viscount (Goderich) who had just spoken, expressed his determination to vote for no inquiry, as it would only prove illusory; and illusory he admitted it certainly would be, if the House of Lords should confess the same incapacity of which his Majesty's ministers already stood self-convicted. If the noble lords in office could propose no measure of assistance at such a juncture, when the cries of a suffering nation assailed their ears, they were not the ministers who could save the country. At the same time he did not mean to insinuate that this was to be referred to a want of capacity, whatever other deficiencies the present government might be charged with. On the subject of the currency laws, he would speak his sentiments freely, notwithstanding the reluctance which was so visible on the part of others, both within doors and abroad. Many entertained opinions similar to his own, although deference to one leader or another prevented them from speaking out. Some also hoped that the powerful hand of government would be extended to relieve the public from the intolerable evils so improperly termed 'temporary' in the official document then under their consideration. It would be easy to prove that every measure in other times, and other countries, which had for its object the contraction of the circulation, produced uniformly public distress. Formerly, distress which so originated passed away in a few years; now, however, the kingdom was placed under different circumstances, as the production of the precious metals had diminished while agricultural and commercial resources had multiplied. Many of the noble lords whom he addressed had been already obliged to abate their incomes by 20 or 30 per cent; but, according to the system pursued by government, they might make a still further reduction of 20 or 30 per cent more, without producing any permanently beneficial effect, so long as the principal source of

29
mischief remained untouched. It was a foolish and a mad project to go on speculating how much contraction the currency would bear. Wiser and happier statesmen had supported successfully the principle that the currency could not be too extensive, provided it represented something substantial; or, in other words, that it represented property, whether agricultural, commercial, or manufacturing. Another great error had been committed in the settlement of the currency question —namely, that the standard should have been fixed to be a gold one. This was the only country which had a gold standard alone. A small expenditure required one standard; a larger another; but he considered the metallic currency in no other light than as the small change of a great commercial and manufacturing state. He would ask any one in that House whether, when rents were sent up to their bankers here, were they sent up, forsooth, in rouleaus of gold?—Never. They were sent up almost always in a paper currency, or by the bankers, for their own convenience—namely, bills of exchange. In cases of doubt only was there a demand or run on any one for gold or precious metals. When a panic occurred, it was always greater and more general in a larger country than in a smaller; the wealth of the former ought therefore to be represented by that metal, as a standard which was easier procurable than gold, and was also to be had in larger quantities. In no other country was gold exclusively a standard, nor did he believe that it could at this moment be obtained in any quarter of the world to meet an immediate and general demand. Besides, gold was more open to combinations than any other metal, which would be sufficiently demonstrated in a sudden exigence by the great dealers in money on the Stock Exchange. He would propose a silver standard, and have gold for circulation with a view only to convenience. The resources of the country would then be emancipated from the artificial fetters in which they were bound, and it would be shown, to the confusion of political economists, that they could be made the means of feeding as well as starving the population of the country. What was the condition of the English people just now? Why, 30,000,000 l. of taxes had been apparently taken off, an ostensible abatement from 84,000,000.
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to 56,000,000 l. had been made, and yet the pressure was found to be about the same as before. Were they in the present times, after fifteen years of peace, to be told that they must pay a property-tax, pay all the war taxes—in short, all that had been levied at the heaviest period of national expenditure;—now, too, while economy and retrenchment were adopted in every department of the public service? The noble duke at the head of the government had made promises of still greater reductions. In this respect, he was free to acknowledge that no minister had greater power or more honest intentions. He was quite willing to give that illustrious individual abundant credit for his ability and integrity, but he might retrench and economise until he should even put in peril the existence of our institutions, and yet the distress of the manufacturing and agricultural population, he could assure him, would not be the more ameliorated by exertions of such a nature. One of the evils attendant upon the working of the present system was the course of conduct which it imposed upon bankers. They could not, consistently with their interest, afford the slightest accommodation to farmers, who might suffer by a wet and backward season. The crop, although abundant, would necessarily require a longer period before it could be brought to market. The farmer, on presenting himself to the banker, demands a check for 100 l., and promises to pay the amount with interest, offering his corn, haystacks, cattle, &c. for security. This proposal, however, is invariably refused, as the nature of the circulation prevents the banker from profiting by acceding to it. His issues are in five-pound notes, and, on an average, from seven to eight days after their issue, those five-pound notes are returned on him for small change, which he is obliged to pay in gold. The only argument advanced in favour of this circulation appeared to be their supposed effect in preventing traders to any great amount on fictitious capital from going to market, and consequently so far it protected fair dealing, and encouraged the interests of trade. This assertion, nevertheless, was not true, in his opinion, to the extent alleged. He had seen returns made in the year 1825, which justified the inference, and led him to believe that its operation in this respect was very much over-rated. He recommended a silver

31
standard, disavowed having attended any county meeting where the subject had been discussed, and stated his conviction that the distresses complained of were not of a temporary character, nor arising from accidental causes. There was, however, another point of the King's Speech which he could not forbear adverting to in terms of approbation and satisfaction. He meant the assurance of a reform in the courts of law. [hear, hear] This was a matter worthy of being undertaken by his majesty's government, and he had no doubt the announcement would be hailed with one common feeling of gratified expectation by every member of the community. With respect to a remedy for the distresses under which the country was suffering, he believed the noble duke opposite would be most glad to apply one, if he knew it; but though the noble duke might not be able to devise one, still it was necessary that a remedy should be applied, and that speedily. It was impossible that the poorer classes could continue in the state in which they were now suffering. If that class had no confidence in the ministry, they had confidence in parliament; but even in that their confidence would not long continue, unless they found that serious attempts were made to relieve the distress under which they laboured. Another topic to which he was anxious to call the attention of their lordships was one in which he considered that the honour of this country had been compromised, and its glory tarnished. He alluded to the conduct we had adopted towards those brave and loyal men who had endeavoured to land at Terceira, to add their force to that which was already there, acting in the name of their lawful sovereign, the young queen of Portugal. He contended that ministers, while professing a strict neutrality, as between the party of Don Miguel and the constitutionalists, or rather that of the lawful queen of Portugal, had shown a decided partiality to the usurper, and had materially assisted him in his outrageous violation of the rights of the young queen. If they had acted on the principles of strict neutrality, it might have been fair; but they had departed from it, and in every way showed a decided partiality for Don Miguel. They had, in fact, acted as constables for his protection. The noble lord observed that he had been prevented from bringing this subject forward in the latter part of last session; but he should
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at no distant day have the opportunity of directing special attention to it. In the meantime, he must maintain that the conduct of government, in preventing the landing of the Portuguese who went out unarmed to join the force of their lawful queen at Terceira, was a decided violation of that neutrality on which ministers professed to act, and was an interposition unwarranted by the law of nations. We certainly were not bound to assist in conveying them there; but he defied any man to prove that we were justified in preventing an unarmed force from landing on that island. Even if government knew that these men were afterwards to be all armed and sent to attack Portugal, still he would contend that, acting strictly as neutrals, we were bound not to interpose. He would ask the noble viscount (Melville) at the head of the Admiralty, if he had ever heard of such a naval or military armament as an unarmed vessel containing six hundred unarmed men? He hoped their lordships would receive some satisfactory explanation on this subject—if it could be given. He had seen the curious dispatch of the noble duke to the noble earl (Aberdeen) at the head of the Foreign Department on this subject. He could account for a communication of this kind between the noble duke and the earl, by a wish on the part of the former to let his noble friend, whom he had kindly relieved for a short time from the business of his department, see what he had been doing for him in his absence. The noble duke seemed also to take upon himself the responsibility of another noble friend, who was at the head of the Admiralty. He avowed the whole act as his own, and as if he alone were responsible. "The whole act," said he, "is mine"—
"Me me adsum qui feci: in me convertite ferrum."
The whole proceeding reminded him of some humorous designs in which he had seen a noble lord represented as an actor of all work. But when the government put forth such statements to justify their conduct as their belief that the Portuguese were about to attack Terceira, the government professed to believe what no person in the country could believe but themselves. There was one circumstance, however, which took off a little of the regret he felt at the conduct of the British government. He rejoiced that those men had not arrived, at Terceira, because their

33
absence contributed to enhance the glory of one of the most brilliant achievements in modern times. [hear] The commander of that little island, placed at the head of a few, opposed by a greater force, threatened by the whole kingdom of Portugal, and pressed by an enemy who could choose his own time for attack, and proportion his means to the occasion which required them—the commander of that island, with every thing to discourage him, with the example of the feeling entertained by this government towards his countrymen, proved in the proceeding of the British ship of war—that commander had attempted, and succeeded in the attempt, to defend the island, which he accomplished by an action that must for ever control the name of Count de Villa Flor amongst the first officers of his day. The glorious result at Terceira afforded a proof of the injustice with which the Portuguese character was treated. Our ministers had not done them justice, nor had they done justice to Don Miguel. They were engaged in a war against the resources of their own country, and were incapable of acting a bold and manly part even against such a monster. He could not conclude without calling on the country to come forward and show that the distresses were not partial but general. If ministers could not propose a remedy for the distress, others should be found who could. [hear, hear] To persevere in the present course was impossible. They must attempt something to improve the state of the country. It was not permitted to a great people to act a little and obscure part, if the ministers did not find a remedy, the country would have a ministry by whom some remedy could be devised. If this were not provided, and speedily, he could see nothing await us but a rapid diminution of power and influence. In urging these opinions he felt that he was acting with perfect consistency. It would not be easy to convince him that the relation of cause and effect could not be traced between what had happened and what had been often foretold. If they had taken a wide step in error, it was only by taking as wide a step in retreat that they could hope to recover their lost advantages. He did not think that a parliamentary inquiry would answer any good purpose. The people of this country would not be Englishmen if they were satisfied with any thing short of the prompt
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exertion of the government to dissipate the present distress. The government had confessed themselves not only not able to remedy the distress, on the contrary they now declared, they could not even distinguish it. [hear] As for the Speech, it meant nothing—it was nonsense. He spoke without intending disrespect to the noble lords opposite; but such was the light in which it struck him; considered as the Speech, not of the king, but of the minister, whose policy it was intended to lay open. He was not one of those who would object to an ordinary compliment upon such an occasion; but he felt that, by voting for this Address, he should pledge himself to a blind reliance upon ministers—a course which, under all the circumstances, he did not consider it his duty to adopt. He considered that it would pledge him to an opinion as to the state of the country which he believed to be inconsistent with truth; and he was astonished how the opinion could have found its way into the Speech.
The Duke of Wellington.— If, my lords, I could entertain any doubt as to the propriety of the determination which I had formed not to refer to those points of the motion of my noble friend near me, relative to foreign affairs, in answer to noble lords opposite—1 say, my lords, if I had ever harboured any such doubts, they would be entirely removed by the latter parts of the speech of the noble earl (Carnarvon) who has just sat down. The noble earl, instead of referring to those parts in his Majesty's Speech, and in the Address of my noble friend, which have relation to the transactions of the present year, has found it necessary to refer to the history of the last two years, in order to find ground of blame against his Majesty's government. In the very last session of parliament I declared my earnest anxiety that your lordships would be pleased to discuss the very question which the noble earl has taken advantage of this night's discussion to introduce to your consideration—taken advantage of to introduce, without notice to any one concerned, or opportunity given them to consult the documents, that we might see whether the noble earl quoted them correctly, or whether any others were necessary to the elucidation of those transactions to which he referred. It was not to those transactions that the noble earl addressed himself, but to certain papers for which he had

35
upon some former occasion moved; and tonight, upon the occasion of considering an Address in answer to the Speech from the Throne, he loses sight of all the topics of that Speech and Address, and refers to other transactions, upon which no information has yet been given to the House, or, at least, but very partial information, and charges government with certain things— where he found them God only knows— most certainly not in the despatches which have been laid before this House, or which have reached the public offices. I say, my lords, that there was no such communication as that the noble earl refers to. It, was desired by Don Miguel that the British troops should continue in Portugal, but the proposal was negatived by the British government; and it is not true that any such proposition was made by any individual, or set of individuals, on the part of this government, that I ever heard of. But the noble earl considers that to us is attributable the failure of the insurrection of Oporto. Surely not, my lords; we had nothing to do with it. The truth is, that the insurrectionists of Oporto had all the strength of troops, abundance of ammunition, and all the muniments of war necessary to carry their points, and they were joined by the very officers who (the noble earl says) were absent, and who, if present, would have obtained all the ends of the expedition; but they withdrew from Portugal, they quitted the ship which carried them, they left the country, because they saw the whole country was against them. That was the fact, and it appeared upon the face of the correspondence. But, not only has the noble earl referred to transactions for which there are no documents, but also to others, of which the documents are before your lordships, and to which he might as well have given notice of his intention of referring to-night. I say, my lords, that we were neutral in the contest between Don Miguel and his niece or brother; that we were neutral in the civil war of Portugal. The neutrality was never violated by us. We were bound in commercial relations with Portugal, bound by a commercial treaty before the time that he usurped the government of Portugal; and under that we had rights to maintain. Being so situated, could we suffer an army to be organised at Plymouth for the purpose of invading Portugal, the Azores, Terceira, or any other place within his dominions? Don Miguel
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might be an usurper, or he might not; that was not a question which we had a right to settle by appeal to such arguments as would show a disposition to violate the strict neutrality which it was our duty to observe in the contest. The noble earl talks of the cruelty of that transaction at Terceira, and regrets that blood has been spilled. I regret it too. I believe that one man was killed, though the evidence on that point is not so clear as the noble earl would make it appear. The fact has not been proved. But this was not our affair; we did no more than was required to keep his Majesty's neutrality, [hear] and we were fully justified by the laws of nations, and by that treaty, in taking those measures, [hear, hear, from Lord Holland] The noble earl has also adverted to the correspondence having been carried on through the person who fills the situation which I have the honour to hold, upon that occasion, as if I had taken upon myself the duties of my noble friend (Lord Aberdeen;. But, if the noble earl would quote accurately that correspondence, he would see the reason why it devolved upon me, why my noble friend did not undertake it, and why it was afterwards transferred to my noble friend. It remained in my hands so long as the person acting here for Portugal did not assume an official character, which it was our object to prolong, but as soon as an official person did appear, the business was then transferred to my noble friend, and from that time he took upon himself the negotiation. Such was the history of that transaction as far as I recollect; for, not thinking that an affair which happened so long before last session would be made the subject of discussion to-night, I do not pretend to speak with any accuracy upon it, and, in fact, trust myself entirely to my recollection of its circumstances. I had intended, my lords, to confine myself in what I had to say to the latter part of the Speech from the Throne, and the latter part of the Address, which was particularly alluded to by the noble earl at the table, and which, notwithstanding the great pains that have been taken with other topics, I consider the most important part of the Speech. His Majesty has thought proper to recommend to this House that it would proceed with great caution in the consideration of the subjects which are to be submitted to it. But what does the noble earl opposite do? He

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not only does not attend to the recommendation of his Majesty—a recommendation to proceed with prudence and discretion— but he calls upon your lordships to pledge yourselves, not only to inquire into those transactions for the good of the country, but he points out the very measures which ought to be adopted; namely, an alteration of the currency, [hear. No, from the Opposition] This, I say, my lords, is the measure pointed out by the noble earl. Me has thought proper to make some observations upon the Speech, as if his majesty's government had neglected to ascertain the true state of the country—as if they were ignorant of its distress, and as if I, in particular, was negligent of my duty in this instance. I can assure him that no one is more sensible than I am of the state of things, and that no one laments it more sincerely than I do: and I am certain that independently of motive or interest in this subject arising from my official situation, there is no person in the country who feels for its distress more acutely than the person who fills the situation which I have the honour to hold. The noble earl has said that, in the Speech, the whole of the distress is attributed to the state of the seasons; but what is the statement of the Speech upon that subject? Without affecting to quote it literally, is it not, in substance, this—" that, in considering the remedies to be applied to this state of things, you are to give due weight to the unfavourable nature of the seasons, which occasioned enormous expenses in collecting the harvest, and which has, in fact, occasioned one bad harvest, if not another; so that the collection of it was excessively expensive." Surely these circumstances must not be overlooked in taking the subject of distress into consideration. But, besides the agriculturists, there is another class labouring under great distress—the manufacturers. I want to know whether the competition of machinery with labour in all departments of mechanics—the general application of steam—the competition abroad with our manufacturers—and the general imitation of our fabrics—have not produced very great distress amongst the manufacturers at home? These are the circumstances to which his Majesty refers as important to be considered in connection with the subject of distress, and they are those over which parliament has no control. Can this House prevent competition by foreign markets with our own?
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Can we prevent improvements in machinery? Can we prevent steam from being applied, to foreign manufacture? And yet we all know that this injurious competition is ruinous to the manufacturer, by lowering his wages, or throwing the labourers out of employ. But then, the noble earl says the distress is general—universal. My lords, I am afraid the distress is very general; but I must say, notwithstanding the distress which prevails, that there are symptoms to show that the country is advancing. I say, and it may be proved by the documents, that the exports of British manufacture have increased, have been increasing for the last few years, and that in the last year they were larger than they ever were before. I say, my lords, that the amount of exports of produce of British manufacture is greater than it ever was before. [hear] I say that there are, upon all sides, shown the strongest symptoms of improvement in the condition of the country—that there is not a rail-road, or canal, upon which the traffic has not increased of late years, including last year. True it is, my lords, that the profits of trade are now smaller than they were formerly; but if profit, however small, is being derived from the labour of men and animals, surely it is impossible but that some advantage must accrue to some one. It is true that these advantages are not so great as they were ten or fifteen years ago [hear] but there is some advantage, or would the increase of traffic exist? And where that is the case the distress cannot be said to be universal. There is another circumstance which I would call to your lordships attention. There is in this country a very large class of persons who are retail dealers; I ask if they are distressed? [Hear, and Yes, from the Opposition.] This class is very numerous in every town and village in England; I want to know if they are distressed? Are they able to pay their rents? Who build and rent all the new houses that one sees in all directions? These, my lords, are circumstances, say what you please, which every man must feel and acknowledge as indications that the country, notwithstanding the pressure upon it, is still rising, and in some points must continue to rise. I will now say one word, my lords, upon the remedies proposed by the noble earl. That noble lord has entirely misunderstood the argument of the noble viscount (Goderich). The noble viscount had said that the reve-

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nue in the year 1815 produced eighty millions sterling, and that, though taxes had been reduced, first to the amount of eighteen millions, and afterwards to the amount of nine millions, making altogether twenty-seven millions, the revenue produced in sound currency now the same amount as it did in a depreciated currency before. Does not, then, this fact of the revenue keeping up, though the taxes were taken off, prove that the consumption of articles had increased one-third since the period when the taxes were taken off—a proof, also, of the better state of the country. It would be impossible for the country to increase in its consumption one-third in fifteen years if it was suffering under the universal distress which the noble Lord talks of. The noble Lord opposite and the noble Lord who spoke last (Carnarvon) have thought proper to refer the distress to a deficient circulation. Now, my Lords, I hold in my hand a paper which gives the relative amounts of the circulation at different periods. By this it appears that the largest sum ever known to be in circulation during the Bank Restriction was 64,000,000 l. sterling. The sum was made up of—

Bank of England notes

£30,000,0000

Country-bank notes

23,000,000

Gold

4,000,000

Silver

7,000,000

Total

£64,000,000

But in the last year the circulation consisted of—

Bank of England notes

£19,900,000

Country-bank notes

9,200,000

Gold

28,000 000

Silver

8,000,000

Total

£65,100,000

Being an excess over the largest circulation ever known, [hear] If the question be about the actual amount of money in circulation, I beg to observe that there is more money in circulation now than there ever was at any period of the Bank restriction, and that whoever considers that there is abroad sixty-five millions, cannot say that money is scarce. Why, the truth of the matter is, that noble lords want not extended circulation, but unlimited circulation—that is—to give an unlimited power to some individuals—not the Crown, any one but the Crown—to coin as much money, in the shape of paper, as they please, that they may be enabled to lend
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a fictitious capital to all sorts of speculators, [hear] This is what the noble earl opposite wants, but what the country cannot have without exposing it to a degree of ruin from which it has so narrowly escaped in 1825 and 1826. [hear] If your lordships will attend to the arguments of the noble lord, you will see that this is what he wants. For what is the language now held? "In the west of England," one says, "I inquired, and found that the fanner could not borrow any money: his corn-yards and hayricks were full, but he was not able to raise money upon them; and why? Because the country banker cannot coin 1l. notes." [hear] — If these bankers, says the noble earl, cannot lend their money, they cannot get any interest upon their capital. I beg his pardon. The banker may have discount upon cashing the farmer's bill; but he is not content with that profit, he wants to be coining 1l. notes, and to have profit upon those insecure notes, in addition to the discount, [hear] And what is it the noble earl wants now, and will, perhaps, move for in a few days? Not to increase the circulation, for there is as much now as at any former period, but to give certain persons power to lend as much money as they please upon land or no land, upon security or no security. I submit to your lordships that the noble earl has not proved the want of money— there never was a period when money was less wanted. Is there any man, however speculative — any scheme, however visionary, provided only it is a little plausible, which now-a-days lacks support? Is there any power, however bankrupt, even Portugal and Brazil, though the creditors of these countries have been so ill-treated, but can borrow money in this city upon any security or no security? In fact, capital is more abundant now than it was ever known to be, and the evil is certainly not too limited a circulation. I am sorry to trouble your lordships with these observations, which are rather replies to what has been said by the noble earl, and I will now pass to more important topics in his Majesty's Speech—namely, the measures which affect the permanent welfare of the country. In answer to all the declamation that we have heard to night, as to the evils resulting from free trade, and this system of currency, I beg to state to your lordships only one fact. Since the year 1815, but

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principally since the bank restriction was taken off, measures have been adopted by which this country has been relieved from twenty-seven millions a year taxes, besides three millions or four millions interest of the debt, representing a capital of hundred millions of debt. I beg you to bear this in mind when you are discussing this question; and I would tell the advocates of what is called an "equitable adjustment," that, with all their measures, they could not have accomplished so much. I repeat, that since the bank restriction has been taken off, the country has been relieved to the amount of nine millions and eighteen millions besides. I wish to take no credit to myself for this; I give it to those to whom it is properly due—to my noble friend upon the cross-bench (Lord Bexley) and to the noble viscount (Goderich) opposite. Your lordships, then, perceive what may be done by economy; we give our pledge to strive to attain similar ends by the like means, and we call upon you, and count upon your giving us your aid, in putting that economy into practice which will enable us to imitate and rival our predecessors. I trust that your lordships will believe that his Majesty's ministers will do all in their power to relieve the distresses of the country.
The Marquis of Clanricardesaid, notwithstanding the tone in which the noble duke had thought proper to comment upon the observations of the noble earl (Carnarvon), he contended that there never was a session in which parliament waited with so much patience and composure for information respecting our foreign relations as the last session. Some of the most important papers, relating to the Portugal affair, were not laid before this House till the close of the last session. The noble earl, in his opinion, had taken a proper opportunity to canvass these papers to-night, for this was in fact the first opportunity which had offered for such an inquiry. Could it be said that the notice of them was unseasonable now, when government were about, by their own confession, to recognise Don Miguel? [hear]—He hoped that some information would be given to the House respecting the mission of a noble friend of his to the Brazils, for without such information it would not be dealing fairly with the House to call upon it to pledge itself to any course of policy with respect to Don Miguel, which by agreeing
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in this Address, they might be supposed to be. He hoped some noble lord would make a motion on the subject, but it would, be more satisfactory and becoming if it came from ministers themselves, [hear] He was not disposed to canvass the whole Speech in detail, but he could not help congratulating ministers upon their great versatility, in being able to extract pleasure from Turkey, which they had hitherto regarded as a source of pain. [hear] He hoped the explanation would fee given relative to the mission to the Brazils.
The Earl of Aberdeenexplained. No advantage was intended to be taken of the House with respect to the negotiation with Don Miguel because their lordships might concur in this Address. Their lordships might rest assured that all due information would be laid before them before any steps were taken in that recognition—
Lord Holland.—Steps?—[hear]
The Earl of Aberdeen.—What I mean to say is, that before any thing is done, parliament will be furnished with information tending to explain and justify the advice which we may give, [hear, hear, from the Opposition] That any intention exists at this moment of taking such a step as that of recognising Don Miguel I will not now say; but thus far I will be explicit, that I myself have long considered the recognition as a question of time only, for take place it must at one time or other, though perhaps the period may be precipitated or retarded by different considerations. Happen, however, when it may, I have only to repeat, that all the information which will be calculated to explain and justify our measures shall be laid before you.
Lord Holland.—I do not rise to prolong this discussion, but to have, if I can, a clear understanding of the meaning of the noble lord's expression. If I understand him rightly, he says that, when the happy period arrives when we are to acknowledge as king of Portugal that usurper whose whole course has been marked by the greatest hostility and perfidy to this country, parliament is to be made acquainted with all about it; but is it to be before or after, for there lies all the difference? In the early part of his short address, the noble lord used the expression "steps taken," which he afterwards qualified, by saying that the information

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would be afforded before any determination was come to upon the subject of Don Miguel. Now, my lords, in my opinion these expressions make all the difference, and it is of the last necessity that we understand each other clearly. This is the more necessary after the rebuke which my noble friend (Lord Carnarvon) received from the noble duke opposite, who, when, two years ago, these papers were refused, then declared that such a refusal was solely owing to negotiations then pending, and that he longed, nay, panted for a discussion upon them, and was never so anxious to go into a full explanation of the foreign relations of the country—afterwards allowed a whole session to pass without saying one word to parliament on the subject—and, at last, when the House called for information, at the end of a fortnight or three weeks, came down here in a way that nobody ever saw a Secretary of State, I am sure, before—laying a bundle of papers upon the table, without saying whether they were all the documents necessary, or saying a single word to explain them, all incomplete and garbled as they were. I say, my lords, that when my noble friend near me, with great eloquence and great perspicuity, makes some observations upon these papers, the noble duke says, "Oh, this is the old story; what do you mean now? why didn't you give notice?" [laughter]—It is the more necessary that we understand each other at once, lest he again turn round upon us hereafter. The fact is, my lords, that these papers do not contain one-half, of the thing, and the conduct of government, as appears upon the face of them, is bad and disgraceful indeed. [hear]—I hope the noble duke will give us this in-formation with a good grace. I do not want to press him now, but that, before the time arrives when we are to recognise Don Miguel as king, it will be found necessary to lay the whole case before us, and, above all, have it explained, since we were told from the Throne last session, that the head of the House of Braganza was the quarter where these differences were to be terminated, and we know that a minister had been sent out to the Brazils to suggest the grounds of a negotiation between the contending parties. "What was the termination, and why the failure, of that mission? not a word was there of it in the papers before the House, though parliament had an undoubted
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right to the most extended information upon the subject. I hope, that before they resolve upon the disgrace and ignominy of recognizing that bloody usurper and tyrant of a country which is of more importance to this nation than any other country in Europe, your lordships will be favoured with full information upon all that has been done in the matter. There is another subject, too, the affairs of the east, upon which I trust the lords will not be left without information. I would not say any thing upon that subject now, except that I thought his majesty's ministers had treated their "ancient ally," the Turk, with great disrespect. For my own part, I should not have regretted the fall of an odious and disgusting tyranny, which had done so much mischief to mankind. As a citizen of the world, I am sorry that the Russians had not taken Constantinople. People might say, "Oh, we should have sent a fleet to prevent them." But their lordships might depend upon it that if the Russians had taken Constantinople, we should have sent no fleet, whatever we might have threatened to do.
The Earl of Aberdeensaid, he could state to the noble baron, that whenever his Majesty's ministers thought proper to advise their sovereign to remove diplomatic relations with Portugal, they should not ask his advice as to the course that ought to be adopted. Their lordships might depend upon being furnished with the fullest information—with information which he trusted would fully justify the government in every step that had been taken. The noble lord, who never spoke of Don Miguel but in terms of strong vituperation and almost of horror, [hear, from Lord Holland] must be aware now how much the conduct of that individual had been exaggerated. The noble lord must know what the spirit of party and political prejudice would do against the character of princes, even when they least deserved opprobrium. That Don Miguel's character might merit all the reproaches cast upon it was possible, and he would be very far from defending or even palliating what was considered reprehensible conduct in him. But the noble lord ought to have been the last person to object to him as a usurper, because he had on I former occasions shown no disinclination to acknowledge usurpers. Don Miguel was, besides, the choice of the people. He maintained that it was the interest of

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England to connect itself with Portugal, whether governed by one brother or the other of the House of Braganza; and the interruption which had taken place in the relations between the two countries was of longer duration than had ever occurred for two hundred years before. The interruption of those relations was calculated to injure the union which had so long subsisted between the two countries, and open a way to other powers in Europe to occupy that place which we had held in relation to Portugal. It was not therefore to be wondered at that his Majesty's government should be anxious, at the first proper moment, to go back to that state which had been the settled policy of this country for so many years. When the government should think that that moment had arrived, their lordships would be informed of it, and they then would be in a condition to judge whether his Majesty's ministers had acted properly; and he trusted that the House and the country would not think they had acted precipitately.
Lord Hollandsaid, he had never expected that the noble Earl would ask his advice upon any subject, for he appeared to take all his measures without consulting parliament or indeed any body else. In allusion to some peculiar expressions that had fallen from the noble Earl, he wished to say a few words merely in explanation. The noble Earl had said that he would not ask advice as to the time of re-opening the relations with Portugal; but he trusted parliament would not wait till the noble earl chose to give information, but would of itself call upon ministers to lay the documents connected with the subject on the table. With respect to Don Miguel, he was not merely a usurper, but he had seized the throne in spite of the promises he had made. He had directly broken faith with us; and it was not merely because he was a usurper that he (Lord Holland) was unwilling to acknowledge Don Miguel. That prince was a far different sort of a person from Napoleon, who was no usurper, but had been called to the government of France, in the same manner as the royal family of this kingdom, by the voice of parliament, and the representatives of the people; and therefore he had been disposed to acknowledge him as the king of France. The noble earl had said that it was the interest of this country to maintain a connexion with Portugal. It then
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became the duty of parliament to consider how far the conduct of his Majesty's ministers had served to separate Portugal from England. When the present ministry of this country came into office, England had military possession of Portugal, but now, in consequence of our conduct, Portugal was looking to a connexion with France. He hoped parliament would take some steps to know how far the present situation of affairs was the result of misconduct in the ministry, or of that abominable and disgusting outrage, and violation of law, perpetrated at Terceira. The insinuation which the noble earl had made that he (Lord Holland) was inclined to favour revolutionary governments, though conveyed in parliamentary language, he considered to be highly improper, especially when the situation which the noble earl held in his Majesty's government was considered.
The Earl of Winchilseasaid, he would give with heartfelt satisfaction his support to the Amendment to the Address, the character and nature of which had been much misrepresented by the noble duke opposite. The proposed Amendment called on the House to take into its serious consideration the present distressed situation of the country—distress admitted on all hands to exist, and from which all interests were suffering—and to consider what remedies ought to be applied to it: it did not allude to any specific remedy. He felt regret at the slight allusion made in his Majesty's Speech to the unparalleled distress existing in the country. The slightness of the allusion might have arisen from the advisers of the Crown, whose duty it was to inform his Majesty of the state of the country, having either withheld information or misrepresented it, or told his Majesty that it was not in the power of Parliament to afford relief; but if the House neglected to take into consideration the distressed state of the country, it would be neglecting its duty to the public. It might cause the country to think that the House was unable to legislate for the public good; he was sorry to say that he saw a spirit for forming associations springing up in different parts of the country, not for the purpose of laying the grievances of the people before the Parliament, but to propose remedies of their own, and to redress their own wrongs; and if their lordships neglected to inquire into the distress of the country, they would

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be giving encouragement to that spirit. He certainly believed that there were other causes besides the unparalleled badness of the seasons in causing the present distress. Some causes had been mentioned, in his Majesty's Speech as being beyond the control of Parliament; but as those causes were not explained, many speculative and perhaps erroneous opinions would be formed, which would not tend to the tranquillity and peace of the country. From personal experience and from information he had received from well-informed persons, he was convinced that distress was pervading every county of England at present in a most unparalleled degree, and therefore he gave his most decided support to the noble earl's Amendment.
Earl Stanhopeexplained.—If the noble duke had done him the honour to attend to his Amendment, he would have found that it did not pledge the House to the introduction of the question which the noble duke imagined. It only went to this extent, to call upon the House to inquire into the cause of the distress—the existence of which was not disputed—and to administer speedy relief. If the House neglected its duty, and failed to inquire into the distresses of the country, feelings of contempt, on the part of the people, towards their lordships, would naturally arise.
Lord Kingthen rose.—He found it to be absolutely necessary to move an amendment of his own; [a laugh]—for he could neither agree in that part of the Address which the noble duke opposite had moved (the Duke of Buccleuch,) respecting the distresses of the country; nor in the amendment of the noble earl near him (Earl Stanhope), supported as it had been by his speech. The objection he had to his Majesty's Speech was, because it conveyed no adequate idea of the distress of the country,—of the nature of the disease,—and none whatever of the proper cure. Their lordships heard from that Speech the ten-times-told tale of temporary distress; but he wanted to know the reason why, after fifteen years peace, the country experienced a constant recurrence of what was called temporary distress. When their lordships saw distress so universal as the present, no doubt they must think that there was a great pervading and adequate cause. That cause was an error of the legislature, but not of the nature the noble earl supposed. It was the fault of the government, which government could
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remedy. If their lordships looked to the speech of the noble earl, they would find that it bore with it a strong hankering after the flesh-pots of Egypt. The noble carl remarked how well things went on when paper formed the circulating medium. Then rents were high. But such things could not last long; and now those who have caused the distress do not want to feel any of it. Those who voted for the Bank Restriction-bill, found everyone very smooth while it continued; but when there came a specie circulation, they then saw themselves obliged to pay their share of the burdens with which they had before loaded others. This was retributive justice, and Bentham himself could not have invented a punishment more appropriate to the crime. They were suffering because they had encouraged by their voice, and supported by their votes, the depreciation of the currency, and the suffering was just in proportion to the degree of excess in which they indulged their wishes with respect to that currency. He remembered some lines of a poet, which he considered exceedingly applicable to the situation and expressions of those persons, and which were not more remarkable for their severity than for their truth.
"Ye ruined squires and scathed nobility;
What boots it now to raise a loud lament
Of grinding taxes and of falling rent,
And fill our Senate with your senseless cry?
Time was, the coming mischief to prevent,
But then with flinty heart and tearless eye,
You saw your peasants droop—your soldiers die;
Hind paid with rags, and troops to Walcheren sent.
A sturdy swain deprived of his meed,
Even by your war made slavish, lean, and poor;
What reck'd ye—you but gain'd an ample store.
So now shall pity leave you in your need,
Unmov'd we hear you rant, and howl, and roar;
For none who taste of woe have e'er deserv'd it more."
For the last fifteen years every thing had been getting bad, but now every thing exhibited symptoms of being worse, except perhaps the royal palaces which they saw rising around them. And what did their lordships suppose this proved? Why it proved that the progress of society' was arrested, and they had arrived at what the political economists call the stationary, which immediately precedes the declining. There have been a variety of reasons assigned at various times for the distress. At one time there was a superabundance of food; at another a superabundance of goods; at a third they were labouring under a load of paper; at a fourth under a load of money; all these foolish reasons were assigned as the cause

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of that sinking and going down which every one experienced. The true reason he apprehended was to be found in the odious monopolies which met them at every turn. The nation was, in fact, the victim of monopoly. They had a monopoly of beer—a monopoly of corn—of, sugar—of tea; and the effect of all these fell on the consumer, [hear, hear, hear] Every one who suffered from any one of these exclaimed against that monopoly, or against the other, as the monopoly happened to gall them; but no one seemed to care for the poor consumer who paid for all. He verily believed that the relief which might be afforded by the repeal of these monopolies, would amount to at least one-half the national debt, [hear] He was confident that the nation would be a gainer to that amount, and have a good bargain too, for he considered the relief would prove at least equal to fifteen millions sterling per annum. The price of raw produce had been raised most improvidently by these monopolists; and that was the cause of the distress. By raising the price of the raw produce, the manufactured article was rendered clearer; and then there was no demand. That was their situation at present. The price was raised; the demand was lessened; the profits, of course, diminished; and then, as a matter of course, capital found its way abroad, instead of being brought into activity at home. This was the effect of monopoly. The landed interest was suffering from monopoly and want of demand, because the manufacturers, who were also suffering from the same causes, could not afford to eat. There were three countries suffering at this moment from the same causes—countries which possessed a superabundance of wealth and resources beyond every other in Europe, and none of which were oppressed from the absence of a paper currency. These were America, France, and England. America, not behind this country in folly, has had the weakness to deprive herself of the advantages nature bestowed on her, and instead of labouring to increase the export of her raw produce, weakly endeavours to become a manufacturing country. In France, where the system has been somewhat analogous to that of this country, the people were suffering equal depression, because they too had their monopoly. First, there was the monopoly of iron, which rendered that material two or three times dearer than in this
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country. That monopoly, equal to a tax on labour, prevented the French from selling their wines. But then there were, no doubt, many eloquent persons in France, who would dwell with ecstacy on the merits of French iron, and exclaim, "What! are we to be dependent on England for our iron?" That, however, was not good for the owners of woods, for it raised the price, and the result was, that France was punished for her monopoly by a tax on labour, by the loss of the sale of her wines, and by a tax on fuel. By these means nations destroyed their own prosperity; and although he believed there were means of raising this country to a higher pitch of prosperity than she had ever yet possessed, if it could but be prevailed on to become a customer of those nations which were it6 rivals, yet he doubted the firmness of those whose duty it was to execute such a task. The noble lord apologized for troubling the House so much in detail, and concluded abruptly by proposing his amendment—to be inserted after "Majesty," in the 13th paragraph; which was—:
"That after fifteen years of uninterrupted peace, this House laments that the general condition of the people is not materially improved, or the prosperity of the country perceptibly increased; that, on the contrary, the landed and manufacturing interests, as well as the traders and labourers of every description, have frequently been afflicted and still continue to be weighed down by severe distress:
"That it is the duty of Parliament to examine into the causes which have produced these distresses, and to remove the impediments which retard the progress of the national prosperity:
"That the necessaries of life and the materials of manufacture are rendered dear by taxation and regulation: by these means too much is taken from the industrious classes, and, in many instances, too much is given to the privileged classes.
"That it is a grievous aggravation of the public burthens, in addition to near I fifty millions of taxes deemed necessary for the public service, still further to permit enormous sums to be extorted from the people by the intolerable monopolies of corn, beer, sugar, tea, and other articles, established for the private benefit of powerful and favoured classes, at the expense of the great body of consumers and of the public good:

51
"By these monopolies, the cost of the first necessaries of life is enhanced, the rate of profit in all trades diminished, capital driven abroad to seek a more profitable employment, and the productive powers of the national industry are greatly reduced:—By restrictions imposed on the import of foreign corn, the markets of other nations are in a great degree closed against us, the demand for the produce of the national industry is limited, and the symptoms of general distress are manifested in the inadequate reward of labour, and in the increasing difficulty of finding any profitable employment for capital and industry:
"By the partial and exorbitant duties of Excise imposed upon beer and malt, combined with the double monopoly conferred both on the grower of barley and on those who are licensed to sell beer, the price of that necessary of life is so greatly enhanced, that in the course of eighty years, whilst the population has been more than doubled in number, the consumption of malt has actually decreased:
"By the monopoly conferred on the cultivators of sugar in the British West-India islands, the price of that great article of consumption is very much enhanced at the expense of the people of England, who might be better supplied if permitted to resort to other markets, and who are also, for the benefit of the monopolists of the said islands, burthened with the heavy charge of defending those unhealthy and precarious possessions:
"By the exclusive privilege of navigation and trade to China conferred on the East-India Company, the whole supply of tea consumed in the United Kingdom is placed at the discretion of a single company of traders: monopoly in this, as in every similar instance, has produced its usual consequences; the price of tea is greatly increased, as compared with the price of the same article in the free markets of Europe and America; the quantity imported is limited by the narrow views of obtaining a large profit on a small supply, entertained by the monopolist company; the British manufactures suited to the Chinese markets are consequently exported in much smaller amount; and the public thus suffers in the increased price of tea, in the diminished demand for home manufactures, and in the exclusion from all navigation and trade to one of the greatest markets of the world;
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"That it appears that these gigantic monopolies, superadded to the heavy load of taxation, have impoverished the country, and produced the public distress:
"That all prohibitions and restrictions imposed for the benefit of particular classes or companies, for the purpose of producing artificial high prices, are no less impolitic than unjust:
"That our own exclusion from the great market of the world, and the cessation of demand at home, are the necessary consequences of our own measures; because it is in the nature of things that a nation which refuses to buy the productions of other countries cannot sell its own:
"That we can only expect to derive permanent relief from our distresses, and improvement in our condition, from the strictest economy in every branch of the public expenditure, from the abolition of all exclusive privileges and monopolies, from an unrestricted supply of the first necessaries of life and of the materials of manufacture, and from a real free trade, by which the whole community, as consumers of goods, will be greatly benefited, the labouring classes enabled to procure a fair reward, the capitalist to augment those funds by which all labour is supported, and the efficiency of British industry permitted to produce its natural result in enriching the country, and thus to restore and to secure the public prosperity."
Earl Darnleysaid, he preferred the original motion of the noble Duke to the amendment of the noble Earl, or to that of his noble friend near him (Lord King). The Address did not preclude investigation; on the contrary, it invited it. It only exhorted their lordships—a recommendation in which he fully concurred—to proceed with caution and prudence; for if they held out to the people, suffering as they were, a pledge or prospect of immediate relief by any of the nostrums which were proposed, they would be doing mischief instead of good. He rose principally for the purpose of noticing an omission in the Speech of the Lords Commissioners. He observed that it contained no mention of Ireland. He admitted that much had been done for that part of the kingdom by his noble friend opposite (Wellington), but much remained still to be done. He should not, however, intrude upon their lordships with that subject at so late an hour, and the more particularly

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as it was remarkable that, from whatever cause it proceeded, scarcely a single representative peer of Ireland had been in attendance that day. He wished, however, to lay his claim to an early opportunity of bringing forward some motion on the subject of Ireland, unless his noble friend at the head of the government should originate something of the kind, who could of course do it with more effect than any other person.
The Duke of Wellingtonexplained.—He denied that allusion to Ireland was omitted on account of the absence of particular noble lords, and declared, that although the situation of that country did not require such a notice, its situation had not escaped the attention of his Majesty's government, who intended to introduce a measure connected with it in the course of the session.
Earl Stanhopesaid, he wished, in explanation, to observe previously to the conclusion of the debate, that he had meant to represent that there was but one of two alternatives open; either to extend the currency, or to return, as had been wished by a large public meeting, to the expenditure of the country previously to the French revolutionary war.
The Marquis of Lansdownewished to state shortly his reasons why he should vote against the noble earl's Amendment. It appeared from the speech with which that Amendment was introduced, that it was the object of the noble earl to induce the House to do all in its power again to plunge the country into what he could not but consider one of the greatest evils that could await any nation—certainly one of the greatest evils this country had ever endured—an unlimited issue of paper circulation. If the first step were taken, it would lead to subsequent steps, against which he felt it his duty to guard this House and the public. He knew of no extension that was not in danger of amounting to an unlimited issue. He did not know, however, if he should not have supported the Amendment, had not the Speech admitted distress, and in terms which implied a promise that inquiry should take place upon the subject, and which the country had a right to expect. It existed unquestionably to a lamentable extent; but he concurred in the recommendation that it should receive the most cautious inquiry. He thought it necessary to make these few observations in explanation of
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the vote which it was his intention to give on this occasion. He had often felt from experience the great difficulty which attended the discussion of numerous foreign and domestic interests at the same time; but if that difficulty had been felt on former occasions, how much more strongly did it attach on the present, since the interval which had elapsed since last session of parliament had produced changes and influences affecting our foreign interests of a most important character; and others more disastrous, affecting our domestic interests from one end of the country to the other. Although noble lords had a right to express their opinions on these events, it was impossible they could do so all at once with that degree of attention and caution which their importance required. He would not, therefore, take the present opportunity of entering into the discussion of those changes and circumstances, some of which most materially affected the glory and prosperity of this country. He agreed with the sentiments expressed by the noble mover of the Address on the subject of Greece; he rejoiced to hear that, out of those hostilities which had taken place in the east of Europe, there had grown up the prospect of the independence of that country; and to have heard it afterwards announced that measures had been concerted for her pacification. Whatever might be the result of those measures, he trusted it would be one calculated to make Greece happy and independent; for, if independent, she must be essentially free and strong. He hoped every effort would be made to connect her with every other power of Europe, and particularly from her maritime interests to form a permanent connexion with this country. If any efforts had been made to cramp and limit the power of Greece, he should rejoice that those efforts failed. With regard to Portugal, he could not feel so content, after what he had heard from the noble secretary opposite. More information was due to parliament and to the public, yet it was not to be granted till measures should be adopted which would render it no longer useful; that he was not quite so satisfied to learn. He was happy to hear that it was the intention of government to carry on the work, and to effect all possible reductions; he did not question that the noble duke would persevere in a course which he had already commenced, and in which he might depend upon re-

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ceiving the support of those who were not connected with the government, and in which he would be entitled to the support of every person both in and out of parliament to the last farthing which he should propose to reduce consistent with the safety of the country. This was a subject upon which men of every party and every theory were united; without waiting, therefore, for any of those other remedies which might be proposed, let him continue the reformation already begun in the public expenditure, and he would receive more credit with the country than from any, other measure whatsoever. With respect to Ireland, he wished the House had heard from high authority that the great measure, adopted in the last session of parliament, had been attended with that degree of success which, notwithstanding that distress prevailed, had still been productive of most happy consequences in that part of the United Kingdom.
On the question whether the words proposed to be left out should stand part of the original motion, the numbers were— Content 71; Not Content 9; Majority against the Amendment 62.

List of the Minority against the Address.

Dukes.

Tankerville,

Cumberland,

Winchilsea,

Richmond,

Radnor.

Newcastle.

Lords.

Earls.

Rivers,

Stanhope,

Northwich.

LORD STANHOPE'S PROTEST.
The following protest was entered in their Lordships Journal next day:
DISSENTIENT.—1. Because it is the bounden duty of parliament to examine the causes of public distress, and, as far as may be in its power, to administer speedy and effectual relief.
2. Because the grievous distress which now affects the country in many branches of productive industry, appears to be the result of legislative measures, and might, therefore, be relieved, if not altogether removed, by a different course of policy, particularly with respect to the currency, as the alteration in its value has greatly increased the weight of all the public burthens, and of all the private engagements which existed previously to that alteration.
3. Because the relief which ought to be administered cannot be delayed without injury and, injustice, and also without
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danger to the country, of which the welfare must be destroyed, and of which the tranquillity might be disturbed by a continuance of the distress which is now suffered.
STANHOPE,
RICHMOND (for the 1st and 3rd reasons.)