Sitting of 23 May 1827

SMALL DEBTS' BILL—ARRESTS UPON MESNE PROCESS.
The Solicitor Generalrose to move for leave to bring in "a Bill to prevent Arrests on Mesne Process for Debt under 20 l." He said, it was unnecessary for him to occupy much of the attention of the House in explaining the purpose of his bill. They would, perhaps, recollect that, in 1811, an act had been passed to prevent arrest for a less sum than 15 l.; that was, however, only a temporary measure, and had been allowed, rather by accident than design, to expire in 1824. By the previous law, an arrest could be executed for 10 l. The alteration which he intended to propose, was an extension of the last act, and that the sum of 20 l. should be substituted for 15 l., as the amount for arrests. In former times, an arrest might be effected for any sum exceeding 40 s.; but, in the reign of George 1st, the sum was fixed at 10 l., and so the law stood since, with the single alteration to which he had just alluded. It was, he thought, obvious, that if 10 l. were deemed a sufficient sum during the reign of George 1st, the alteration in the value of money which had since taken place would sanction, as just and necessary, his proposal of substituting 20 l. But there were other reasons which called for the enlargement. Returns had been produced, showing the number of persons confined under mesne process in the gaols of England and Wales during the last year; and from these he found, that one thousand eight hundred and twenty persons were in custody, of whom five hundred were for debts under 20 l. He complained strongly of the fatal tendency of the expense of
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recovering small sums, according to the present process, which was sure to cost one half of such debts. There was another alteration which he should make in the former bill; and that was, to annul the exception in favour of debts not contained in promissory notes and bills of exchange, and thereby obviate the desire of tradesmen to get such securities from the creditor as exposed him to a summary and expensive process. He wished his new bill to have a sweeping effect, whether the debts were upon bills and notes, or by simple contract. It was also his intention to make some alterations, to reconcile the practice, in these cases, between the courts Palatine of Wales, and the superior courts of Westminster. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in his bill.
Lord Althorpapproved of the proposed bill, and only doubted whether the sum was carried quite far enough. He strongly condemned the present expensive practice of recovering small debts; which cost so much money as to amount to a denial of justice, and to make one almost wish, that debts under 10 l. should be reckoned debts of honour.
Leave was given to bring in the bill.

ROMAN CATHOLICS' LAND-TAX.
Mr. George Bankes,in rising to propose the introduction of a measure, having for its object the exemption of the Roman Catholics from a double assessment of the Landtax, hoped that he should meet with the support of the House. It could not be unknown to those whom he addressed, that many Roman Catholics were doubly charged with land-tax; and, by virtue of the same law by which they were originally so assessed, Protestants who had succeeded to their estates were obliged to pay the same tax as the Catholics from whom they inherited. The act by which Roman Catholics were doubly charged with land-tax was passed in the 4th of William 3rd, and continued in force by the enactment of annual bills, until the 33rd of the late king. The bill of William, which was passed at a time when this country was it war with some of the European powers, enacted, that Roman Catholics should, in future, pay a double land-tax; that was to say, that Catholics should pay 8s. where persons of other persuasions paid only 4s. These annual acts of parliament were continued until 1794, when the 33rd of the late king professed to relieve the Catholics

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from the effects of the former law, by affording them an opportunity of ridding themselves of the double tax already referred to, by the production of certain certificates. From 1794 to 1798, the opportunity thus offered to the Catholics was open to them: but, in the last mentioned year, a clause was added to the bill, declaring that, after the September following, Catholics, who had not taken advantage of the law up to that time, would, in future, be excluded from its benefits. Through negligence, and other causes, several Roman Catholics failed to take advantage of the above law within the given time. The consequence of which was, that they were now subjected to the hardship of paying double land-tax. An action, arising out of the state of the existing law, had lately been tried; but the judge declared, that the law afforded no benefit to the plaintiff, and that the legislature only could grant him relief. The object of the present bill was, to give the Roman Catholics that relief. It might seem strange that he, who uniformly opposed the Catholic claims, should bring in any measure tending to relieve that class of individuals. As long, however, as he had a seat in that House, he should, without any reference to party feelings, adopt that course which he conceived was due to justice. He had been applied to on this subject by several Roman Catholic peers, and other distinguished persons, to bring in some measure of relief; and he conceived that the present bill would fully accomplish that object.
The Solicitor-Generalrose merely to say, that he should offer no objection to the measure proposed by the hon. gentleman; but he would not pledge himself to give it his future support.
Mr. Herrieswas happy to find, that the hon. gentleman had taken up this subject; because it would relieve the Treasury of proposing a similar bill.
Leave was given to bring in the bill.

REGISTRATION OF FREEHOLDS.
Lord Althorpmoved for leave to bring in a bill for the Registration of Freeholds in England and Wales. In introducing the bill, the noble lord observed, that it was not his intention that it should be discussed this session.
Mr. Hudson Gurneysaid, that from what had yet proceeded from it, he had a considerable jealousy of the noble lord's
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committee, and thought they were in the way of introducing more mal-practices than they would remedy. The registration of freeholders had been pretty well tried in Ireland; and a more obvious source of fraudulent voting, he could not well conceive.
Leave was given to bring in the bill.

SALE OF GAME BILL.
The Marquis of Salisbury said,he had to propose to their lordships a bill to permit the Sale of Game under certain restrictions. He thought it well worthy of the consideration of their lordships, to see whether they could not, by some measure, not interfering with the principle of the Game-laws, put a stop to the increasing crime of poaching. He thought the bill which he held in his hand would have such an effect. The bill proposed to legalize the sale of game, and to do so in the most extended manner, by giving a power to all persons qualified by law to kill game, to take out a certificate, empowering them to sell game to licensed dealers. He thought it but fair, that those who had as much land as qualified them to kill game for their own use, should be allowed to make a profit by the sale of game. If that were allowed, it would have the effect of diminishing the crime of poaching. The bill was introduced as a temporary measure. Its operation would expire at the end of three years; and then their lordships might consider whether any better system could be established. If he succeeded in making the sale of game legal, he thought the temptation to the poacher to commit crime would be greatly reduced; as he would be met in the market by a competitor, who would not. be liable to any of the consequences to which the poacher was subject. He had another reason for introducing the present measure. Some few years ago, the poulterers of the metropolis came to the resolution of discontinuing the sale of game to their customers. What was the consequence? The poulterers lost their customers, and some of them were nearly ruined. They were at last forced to give way, and again resort to illegal means to obtain game. He was convinced that, however great might be the determination of their lordships to prevent the sale of game, they could not, by any legislative enactment, effect their purpose. In consequence of the abolition of the use of spring guns, much greater facilities would be afforded to the poacher in his illegal practices than he before enjoyed. If game was to be preserved at all, it must be by men, and men alone; but it was very difficult to get any men who would attack the

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night-poachers, and next to an impossibility to collect a sufficient number of them for that purpose. Since, therefore, the endeavour to amend the poacher, by deterring him from crime, could no longer be made, the only way left open was, by diminishing the temptation to crime. Now, he did not know of any way to diminish the temptation which could be so effectual as to bring a competitor with the poacher into the market, who had no occasion to sell game to provide for his subsistence. He should move the first reading of the bill.
Leave was given to bring in the bill.