Sitting of 8 February 1827

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION— GENERAL PETITION OF THE CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.
Sir F. Burdettthen rose to present the general petition of the Catholics of Ireland. This duty, he said, he was anxious to lose not a moment in performing, but he would not avail himself of that opportunity to make any preliminary remarks with reference- to the general question. He would content himself, therefore, with shortly expressing his regret at the absence of the right lion. Secretary for Foreign Affairs. Had that right hon. gentleman been present, he should have been happy to have consulted with him as to the future steps to be taken, in furtherance of the important measure prayed for by the petitioners. He was sorry, he repeated, for the right hon. gentleman's absence, both on account of its
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cause, and for his own sake, as he was desirous, for his guidance in this great question, to have had some communication with that right hon. gentleman. It had become a matter of such pressing necessity—of such hourly growing importance—that no consideration should induce him to delay bringing it before the House at the earliest period that public convenience would permit. In saying this, however, he felt that he could not then undertake to name any precise day; though he would state, that the impression on his mind, as well as on the minds of the petitioners was, that no further delay should take place than was absolutely necessary.
The Petition was then brought up and read; setting forth,
"That the following is the case of the Petitioners: they are deprived of all participation whatsoever in the framing or amending of the laws by which their properties are regulated, and on which the security of their lives and characters depend; they are deprived of almost all share in the administration of the laws by which their properties are regulated, and on which the security of their lives and characters depend: they are totally deprived of all participation in the highest and most important functions in the administration of those laws: they are excluded from the office of sheriff, an office the importance of which in rendering the administration of justice impartial or unjust, pure or corrupt, the cause of blessings or the source of misery, cannot be exaggerated, and can scarcely be adequately described; they are totally excluded from all municipal offices in all the corporate towns and cities in Ireland; they are stigmatized by being excluded from the councils of their sovereign; and they are degraded in their native land, not only by the practical exclusion from many, and in truth nearly all, other offices, but much more so by the haughty and insolent superiority which is naturally excited in the minds of the unjustly-favoured few over the equally unjustly-excluded many: that the alarm created in the minds of the self-interested portion of the ascendancy in that country, lest their unjust monopoly should be destroyed by the humanity and wisdom of the legislature, has a natural tendency to produce, and is daily producing, an envenomed spirit of hostility, towards the Petitioners, threatening them even from the lips of those who ought to preach charity and

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good-will amongst men, with the lawless plunder of the Petitioners' property, and the sanguinary destruction of their lives; such is the case of the Petitioners, and from the situation to which they are thus reduced, they appeal for relief to the wisdom and the justice of the House; this the afflicting state of the Petitioners is an unmixed evil to the British Empire; the individual advantages which a few of the Protestants derive from it are perfectly undeserving of regard, when contrasted with the dangers which must necessarily menace the lives and properties of every class of his majesty's subjects, from the results of the present system of injustice, and with the insecurity to the Throne, and the instability of the Constitution, created by the long-stored and just discontent of the Irish nation: for, may it please the House to understand, that the Petitioners are discontented, deeply, universally discontented at being excluded and degraded in their native land, without there being any just or natural cause whatsoever for such degradation or exclusion, and without there being a plausible pretext, however slight, for continuing the present system: the Petitioners respectfully submit that they would be undeserving the attention of the high-minded and the good, if they were capable of suffering injustice without feeling discontent and indignation; and the Petitioners respectfully beg leave to state, that they would endure with uncomplaining submission, the evils attendant on their degradation in their native land, if they had merited that degradation by any crime, or if it were palliated by any natural or moral inferiority on their part: but the fact is otherwise; no crime can be imputed to the Petitioners, save the conscientious adherence to the pure and holy faith of their ancestors, and of the ancestors of the House; that faith which confessedly was the religion of all England for more than eight hundred years; a religion introduced to our Saxon ancestors by a Catholic monk, whose name stands high in our Calendar, Saint Austin, a religion which was so introduced by the command and under the directions of a pope, a man whose name has won universal esteem from all English scholars and divines, Saint Gregory the Great; a religion which was firmly believed and faithfully practised by the patriots and statesmen, who founded and framed the British constitution; a religion which was believed
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and practised by the heroes who first spread the renown of English valour throughout the universe; a religion which the Petitioners firmly believe to have been instituted by the Divine Redeemer of all mankind, and transmitted in unbroken succession to the present day, forbidding vice, crime, and immorality of every description, teaching all social and moral duties, inculcating all practical virtues, and sanctioning and commanding all domestic and private charities; the Petitioners respectfully, and in the spirit of perfect charity, state their conscientious conviction that this the religion of the ancestors of the House, and of the Petitioners, is the best form of Christian faith; but the Petitioners do not rest any part whatsoever of their claim to relief on such, to them, undoubted superiority; the Petitioners claim for relief is founded solely and exclusively on the principle of freedom of conscience, not as applicable to their particular case or creed, but as belonging of right equally to every sect and persuasion of Christians: the Petitioners respectfully call on the House to recognize that sacred principle, to leave conscience free and unfettered, to allow to man the right of worshipping God as to him may seem best, and not to interfere between conscientious man and his Creator; the principle of such interference cannot be admitted by any human institution, tribunal, or legislature, without affording a justification of the horrors of every religious inquisition, and of all the cruelties of the Pagan emperors to the primitive Christians: the Petitioners, therefore, most respectfully and humbly implore the House to establish at length that sacred principle, to do to others what they would wish to be done to themselves, and to grant to the Catholics of Ireland the opportunity of adhering to the faith of their fathers without suffering in consequence thereof, any pains, penalties, exclusion, or deprivation, whatsoever: the Petitioners further respectively show that, by acceding to the prayer of this their humble Petition, and granting them what they ask, namely, an equalization of civil rights with their Protestant fellow-subjects, the House will make an holy alliance with the inhabitants of that fertile but hitherto wretched island; the House will combine all classes of his majesty's subjects in the indissoluble bonds of mutual affection and mutual interest; the House will increase the strength of the govern-

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ment, they will add to the security of the throne, and give permanent stability to the British constitution. May it, therefore, please the House, in its justice, wisdom, and generosity, to grant to the Petitioners the restoration of their long withheld rights, by giving them an equalization of civil rights with their Protestant fellow-subjects, unfettered by any conditions, qualifications, or restrictions, whatsoever."
Ordered to lie on the table and to be printed.

CORN LAWS.
The Earl of Liverpoolgave notice, that he would, if nothing in the interim should happen to make it necessary to put off the motion to a further day, on Monday se'nnight, bring under the consideration of their lordships the subject of the Corn-laws.
The Earl of Lauderdalewished to know the nature of the proposition intended to be brought forward, and he would tell the noble earl his reason for so wishing. When the people of this country were about to express their opinion on the subject of any alteration in the Corn-laws, it was recommended to them, by the friends of ministers, to refrain from any expression of disapprobation until such time as the proposition which ministers intended to submit to parliament should be made known. Now, he thought that, after the propositions were made, not only the two Houses, but the public ought to have time to examine, and express their opinion upon them. If they had not time for this, they would be entrapped into a measure which, he would say, was one of the most important, both politically and economically, ever agitated.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, he felt the importance of the subject as much as the noble earl did, and should never think of

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calling upon parliament for any opinion upon it on the day on which he should bring forward his proposition.
The Earl of Lauderdalesaid, he wished that the country should have sufficient time to express its opinion; The noble lord must see that what he had stated did not meet his Objection, because he had prefaced his observations by saying, that the adherents of ministers had recommended that no expression of public feeling should take place, and told the people to wait until ministers should bring forward their proposition, and then there would be time enough to give their opinion. This proceeding put him in mind of an anecdote told by his father-in-law. As he was stepping into his carriage, his coachman came up to him, and said, "As I know, Sir, that you like to be consulted, I think it right to inform you that I was married yesterday." Now, the two Houses of parliament were to give their decision on the noble lord's proposition first, and the country was to be consulted on the subject afterwards. What he wished distinctly to know was, whether the noble earl intended to allow sufficient time for the public at large to express an opinion.
The Earl of Liverpoolreally did not know what the noble lord's calculation of sufficient time might be. All he could say was, that after he had submitted his proposition to their lordships, he should allow a reasonable time to intervene before he called upon them for their decision upon it.

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
Viscount Clifden, in rising to present the first one of a great many petitions which he had to present from the Catholics of Ireland, felt himself bound to address a few observations to their lordships. He begged in particular to call their lordships' attention to the great alteration which had taken place in the circumstances of the Catholics within these two years. Since the question was formerly before their lordships, they had roused themselves, and become sensible of their strength. In one week, the Catholics of Waterford had defeated and disgraced the most opulent Protestant family in all Ireland. There were two other families more opulent; but they did not reside in Ireland, and were rather English than Irish. The members of this family were gentlemen of unblemished character, but distinguished
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by their bitter hostility to the just claims of their Catholic fellow subjects, and for that hostility alone they were defeated in one week on their own ground. In Louth, the Catholics had defeated the oldest politician in Ireland. In the counties of Dublin and Westmeath, they had also been victorious; and in Armagh, which was the very cradle of Orangeism, they had completely triumphed. Mr. Brown-low—who had seen his error, and after voting against the Catholics, now voted for them—was opposed by the whole force of the Orange party—was carried triumphantly through by the Catholic freeholders. It was the fashion to abuse the Catholic priests for their interference; but were not the clergy of the Established Church as bad? He was sorry the bishops' bench was so empty, or he would say more on this subject. Did not our parsons brawl without mercy? The Catholic priests lived with their flock; they attended to their wants, administered to them in sickness, and consoled them on their death bed. The noble Viscount then read an election address, calling on the Catholics not to vote for any man who supported the Test; as by that means they virtually voted against themselves, and admitted that their own religion was idolatrous. Two years ago his majesty had been advised to recommend parliament to put down the Catholic association, and a law had been made for that purpose. But, had they succeeded? He would answer, No. The thing was impossible. The Association were the representatives of opinions, and it was impossible to put down opinions. If the Irish amounted to five millions, they constituted one fourth of our whole population: if they amounted to seven millions, they were one third; and it was impossible to change or subdue, the opinions of so large a body of men. The Irish House of Commons, in 1793, when ministers were frightened out of their senses, which some of them seemed not yet to have recovered, resolved to put an end to the penal code; they resolved, also, to put an end to the Catholics. They then passed the famous Convocation act, which only allowed the two Houses to meet by a special clause. But, had this put down the Catholics? No. They had gone on increasing—had acquired power and talents—and were now conscious of their strength. As to the complaints against the Catholic priests, he could not

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see why they should not interfere at elections, when our own clergy disgraced themselves by raising the cry of "No Popery." That cry had, however, lost its power. The people of this country had more vital interests to attend to. They were groaning, in the twelfth year of peace, under a debt of 800,000,000 l., and an expenditure of 50,000,000 l. He trusted to God that the Catholic question would come up again this session from the Commons. If their lordships persisted in withholding their concurrence, they would render themselves the laughing-stock of the country. Even the Holy Alliance had not ventured to embark upon religious questions. There were in Europe one hundred millions of people, free from such exclusive laws. It should be recollected, too, that a communication with Ireland by the means of steam was now easy; and that France looked with delight upon the spirit of disunion that prevailed in that country. Three hundred and eighty men from Bedlam could not behave worse than their lordships would do, if they persisted in refusing the Catholic claims. He would ask, if it was likely there ever would be an end to the discussion of the question, but by granting the Catholics their rights. He was far on his journey to the other world; but woe to those who came after him, if this question should be left undecided.
Ordered to lie on the table.