Sitting of 23 March 1826

LARCENY BILL.
Mr. Secretary Peelbrought in his bill "for consolidating and amending the Laws in England relative to Larceny, and certain other offences, affecting property." He said, he was so desirous that this bill should receive the most deliberate investigation, that he hoped he should be permitted to have it read the first and second time, and to go through the committee, where the blanks which fixed the penalty to the different offences could be filled up. The bill
86
would then be placed before the House in a more perfect state, and gentlemen could come to the discussion, with a complete knowledge of all its provisions; and he should be perfectly prepared to give every opportunity for the discussion of the principle of the measure, if any objection were raised against it.
The bill was then read a first and second time, and committed.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE BILL.
Mr. Secretary Peelnext brought in his bill "for improving the administration of Criminal Justice in England," and requested he might be allowed to take the same course with this as he had done with the preceding measure. This bill differed only in one respect from the statement which he had made when he obtained leave to bring it in, and that alteration was made on the suggestion of one of the highest judicial authorities this country had ever produced—an authority whose opinions were reverenced in every part of the world where a love of justice and equity prevailed—he alluded to lord Stowell, the venerable judge of the Admiralty Court. That noble lord proposed to extend the principle of the bill, so far as it related to prosecutions for misdemeanour at the quarter sessions, to offences tried in the Admiralty Court. At present, when persons were tried for offences committed on the high seas, even of the most atrocious character, the court had no power by law to award any indemnification to the persons supporting the prosecution; and the object of the alteration was, to give to the court of Admiralty a discretionary power of indemnifying individuals who came forward as prosecutors. On the common principle of justice it was only, fair that the expense should be borne by the public.
The bill was then read a first and second time, and committed.

PUBLIC CHARITIES IN IRELAND.
The order of the day for receiving the Report of the Committee of Supply was read. On the question, "that the report be now brought up,"
Mr. Humesaid, he had not heard from his majesty's ministers whether they intended to make any alteration in the estimates for charitable purposes in Ireland. He would, therefore, avail himself of the present opportunity of placing on record his opinion of the situation in which the

87
House was placed with regard to those estimates. A committee was appointed in 1817 to inquire into this subject. The result of that inquiry was this:—On the 1st of January 1,800, the sum voted by the Irish parliament, for charitable purposes, was 47,284 l. This was at the time that the Union took place. In the act of union was a clause to continue these votes for twenty years. At the end of that time, the system was to cease. Now, he begged of the House to consider what they were doing. His firm conviction was, that the granting of money for charitable institutions, conducted as those in Ireland were, was wasting the public money. Instead of reducing these estimates, they were now four or five times greater than they were at the time of the Union. A minute inquiry into those institutions would prove, that the money was wasted, and not applied to the real purposes for which it was voted. Being of this opinion, he would move, by way of amendment, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the question, in order to add the words, "when the principle of supporting local charities and other institutions at the public expense is extremely questionable, and the present distressed state of Great Britain is considered, it becomes the imperative duty of this House to institute an inquiry before they proceed further in voting to the amount of 371,589 l. for the support of local institutions in Ireland, more especially so, when no less a sum than 171,261 l. is required in the present year for the support of the charitable institutions for which the Irish parliament, on an average of the six years 1791 to 1800, voted only 47,284 l.," instead thereof.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that if the votes for those charitable institutions were now proposed for the first time, he could not conceive any sort of reasoning which could make him acquiesce in them. But they had now been voted for so long a period, that they ought not to be abruptly discontinued. The House would not, he was sure, be disposed at once to break up these establishments, which, however questionable in their principle, were necessary and useful to the people of Ireland. No one would recommend to the legislature to discard from their mind all charitable feelings for a cold and too strict an economy.
Mr. Humesaid, that it was now five years since government ought to have pro-
88
posed to the House to reduce these estimate s; but, instead of that, they had been going on increasing from year to year. He had no confidence in the right hon. gentleman, nor in any part of the government, and would divide the House on the amendment.
The House divided: for bringing up the report 60. Against it 6.

List of the Minority.

Bright, H.

Smith, W.

Davies, T.

TELLERS.

Ellice, E.

Fergusson, sir R.

Hume, J.

Lockhart, J.

Wood, ald.

EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
Mr. Humeagain expressed his objections to the vote for the Kildare-street Society, in Dublin. In addition to what he had said last night, as to the scholars bearing exactly a seventieth proportion to the number of schools of this institution, in the several counties of Ireland, he was now enabled to state, that the same proportion was observable in the reports of the society of 1824, 1825, and 1826. He was, therefore, warranted in saying, that this was a manufactured statement. He apologized, however, for having connected the church of Ireland so closely with this institution. This was professedly a proselyting society, and it was impossible for a Catholic to read any work called a tract. He objected to a tract called a "Search for Sin," as containing the most disgusting rhapsodies. He had a horror of tracts. It was monstrous to charge so large a sum for educating 26,000 Catholic children. He concluded by moving, as an amendment, "That a commission being now employed to inquire into the state of education in Ireland, and the best means of promoting the same, it is, in the opinion of this House, as contrary to parliamentary usage, as it is inconsistent with economy, to allow of any increase of expense for the society for promoting the education of the poor of Ireland until the commissioners have made their final report to this House, and therefore the amount should be reduced to 22,000 l., the amount voted last year for that institution."
Mr. F. Lewissaid, that the commission had already reported, but the hon. member had not read that report. He defended these institutions, as, from his own knowledge, being highly beneficial to Ireland.
The amendment was negatived, and the resolution agreed to.