Sitting of 30 June 1825

COMBINATION OF WORKMEN BILL.
The bill being read a third time, a clause for directing that justices should transmit to the sessions a copy of the commitment, and another, allowing appeal to the quarter session, were added to the bill, on the motion of the Attorney-general. Another clause, "that every master of workmen, and the father and son of such master, be rendered incapable of acting as a justice of peace in cases of complaint under the act," was offered by Mr. Hume, and negatived. On the question, that the bill do pass,
Mr. Humesaid, that no individual, however high or low, ought to be coerced or controlled by combinations; but he was satisfied that nine-tenths of the recent disturbances had arisen from a want of conciliation between the parties; often, he

1463
was sorry to say, beginning with the masters, and attributable, perhaps, to long habit, from the existence of previous laws. These laws it was intended now to remove; and he hoped that, on the part of ministers, there would exist a determination to listen as well to the complaints of the men as of the masters, and that they would not hastily come to a conclusion unfavourable to those who had hitherto been oppressed. He had been anxious to protect them as far as lay within his power. He believed that the country at that moment was far from being in the situation repeatedly stated in the House. He had done as much as he could to obtain free labour for the men; and if he had a request to make to them, it would be, that they would avoid every possible interference regarding wages by threats, intimidation, or even molestation. He trusted that all magistrates who were called upon to sit in judgment upon cases arising out of this law, would act fairly and impartially between the accuser and the accused. It was, unquestionably, the interest of the operative classes to submit; and if they did submit and were oppressed, they would be sure to receive the sympathy of the public.
Mr. Secretary Peeldenied, that there had existed any disposition to bear hard upon that class of persons, which, in point of fact, formed the main strength of the community. They had a right to be protected, and to receive impartial justice. Ministers had never felt the slightest inclination to attend to the interests of the masters, and to neglect those of the workmen. He had never heard in the committee or in the House, expressions regarding the combinations of the operative classes half so strong as some of those used by the hon. member for Aberdeen himself. They did him great credit, though they were not in exact conformity with his subsequent declaration. He alluded to a letter addressed to J. Allen, ship wright, of Dundee, dated the 26th March, 1825, and signed Joseph Hume, which contained the following sentence:—"I am quite certain, that if the operatives do not act with more temper, moderation, and prudence, than they are now doing, the legislature will be obliged to retrace it steps, and to adopt measures to check um reasonable proceedings and exorbitant demands, too often accompanied with violence." The legislature was not prepared to go so far as the hon. gentleman recommended in his letter: it did not propose
1464
to retrace its steps, but to trust to the workmen, in the hope that they would attend to the dictates of justice and their own interest, by abandoning those abominable combinations, which interfered essentially with the freedom and prosperity of trade.
Mr. Ellicecoincided with the sentiments expressed in the extract from the letter of his hon. friend. If combination attended with violence were continued, the destruction of the manufacturing interest must be the result.
Mr. Maxwellsaid:—In the attempt to compete with foreigners, whose manufactures are not subject to equal taxes, the master is induced to reduce wages for the purpose of preserving his profits. The abundance of labourers enables him to obtain his object, but his success is injurious to the workmen. They combine to prevent such injury, and to make him share the burthen of taxation, by payment of such wages as the taxes render absolutely necessary for the welfare and independence of themselves and families. When food and clothing are protected from the effects of high taxes, justice demands that labour should not be excluded from similar advantages; and combination must therefore be rendered legal, or a minimum of wages established. But capital may leave the country altogether, or cease to be vested in trade; and you must therefore provide such regulations as will prevent the total loss of profit on the one side, as well as the total inadequacy of remuneration on the other. Entire success is probably impossible; but you may effect a happier distribution of the profits of all trades, and preserve the workmen from the consequences of the excessive supply of labour which war, misapplied poor rates, and Irish elective franchise, have given birth to. Your legislation is surrounded with obstacles, and the master and workman, adverse in other things, unite in jealousy of your enactments, violence to masters or fellow-workmen is incompatible with the prosperity of every trade, and prejudicial to the nation. The executive government cannot refrain from arresting a system which invades the first principles of civil society, and degrades the character of the national institutions, with whose fame and preservation it is specially intrusted; and now that the appeal from summary decisions is conceded, the bill we are called upon to render law does not appear to

1465
me to impair the rights of either party, or to be such as to make its support inconsistent with the rights and privileges of the people. It leaves every facility to persuasion, to discussion, and to influence; and when we consider the sacrifice it costs to lose affectionate regards, to become an outcast from the friendly intercourse, the obligations, the good offices and the good will of society, we may, perhaps, conclude we have left every rational and equitable means to the workmen, to secure a fair participation in those profits which are the fruits of labour, skill, and capital. At this moment, under the present law, the weavers in my vicinity are, in part, dependent upon the landed interest, and prove that combination alone cannot secure even employment upon any terms; and this fact should satisfy those who object to this bill in the impression of its unfavourable spirit to the workman. I cannot conclude these observations without imploring this House to take into its most serious consideration the depressed state of the labourers of this empire, whether in agricultural Sussex, or in manufacturing Renfrewshire, and the criminal offences which are commensurate with it. The capital of the wealthy, their money, and the capital of the poor, their labour, are alike unprofitable, at a time when the world is employing, in the arts of peace, in the pursuits of comfort, and in the enjoyments of civilization, those resources recently wasted away in oppressive wars. Such an anomaly, when the right hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs has opened the new world to our industry, and replaced us at the head of the nations of the old world, proclaims a defective financial system, which denies us the warmth which should accompany the splendor of our elevation and ascendancy.
The bill was then passed.

CUSTOMS CONSOLIDATION BILL.
The Earl of Liverpoolmoved the second reading of this bill. The main principle on which the measure was founded was, he said, the doing away with prohibitory duties, and introducing certain regulations. There were, however, some exceptions: for instance, the bill did not interfere with the corn laws, nor with cattle now prohibited. He hoped, however, that this part of the subject would be brought, at another opportunity, under the consideration of parliament, as French cows were introduced under the name of Alderney, and this fraud was accomplished by means of the grossest perjury. A considerable change had been made with respect to the silk trade, the prohibition being removed, and a protecting duty of 30 per cent substituted. In mentioning cotton, he reminded their lordships of the remarkable circumstance, that the British manufacturer could undersell the natives of India in their own market, though the price of labour was here 2s. 6d. a-day, and in India only 2d. On paper the duty was also reduced. He should next direct their lordships' attention to the duty on woollens. Hitherto, the import duty had amounted to 65 per cent, but this measure proposed to allow importation with a protecting duty of 15 per cent. It was necessary to act on liberal principles of commerce, if we expected other countries to adopt a system of liberality in their intercourse with us. Upon this view the whole of these regulations of reductions were founded. But he now came to one branch in which the reduction was more considerable than any he had yet mentioned. He meant the great branch of metallic articles. The first he should mention was iron, in which the reduction was from 6l. 10 s. to 1l. 10 s. per ton. This important alteration was likely to prove highly advantageous to our manufacturers at the present moment; for, such was the demand for iron at Birmingham, that the manufacturers had for some time been unable to make all the articles ordered. In the article of copper, the reduction was from 2l. 14 s. to 1l. 7s. He came next to lead, an article which could
1462
well bear a similar regulation; for the price of lead, which during the last ten years had been not more, than 19 l. 10 s. per ton, had, within a few months, risen to about 30 l. per ton. The reduction proposed on this article was from 1l. 16 s. to 1l. The reduction of the duties on manufactured articles was from 50 to 20 per cent, and on unmanufactured articles from 20 to 10 per cent. It was probable that this system of regulations would make other countries adopt a similar course of policy. To do so, a just sense of their own interest would be a sufficient inducement; but it was proposed to lay an additional duty of 5 per cent on imports from all countries, the governments of which did not allow trade to be carried on with them on equal terms. He thought their lordships would agree with him, that the regulations he had described went as far as it was at present proper to go. In the distressed situation in which our manufacturers were some years ago placed, it would have been improper to attempt such a change; but the time for carrying into practice a liberal system of commerce had at length arrived. The principle acted upon, he repeated, was the doing away with prohibitions.
The Marquis of Lansdownconcurred with the noble earl in every word he had stated. He regarded the measure as forming a very great and a very salutary revolution in the trade of the country.
The bill was then read a second time.