Sitting of 15 April 1824

CORPORATE RIGHTS—ROMAN CATHOLICS OF DROGHEDA.
Mr. S. Rice, in presenting a petition, signed by upwards of 2,000 respectable inhabitants of Drogheda, complaining of the exclusion of Roman Catholics from grand juries, corporations, &c. stated, that the petitioners expressed their gratitude for the relaxation of the laws in their behalf, but complained that the benefits of that relaxation were intercepted by local influence. Notwithstanding the act of 1793, authorising Roman Catholics to be summoned on grand Juries, from that time up to the present moment, not a single Catholic had ever been summoned on a grand jury in the town of Drogheda. The injustice of this exclusion was the more manifest, as the proportion of Catholics to protestants in Drogheda, with respect to numbers, was nine to one; and with respect to property, two to three. While Catholics of the first rank and respectability were excluded, individuals not resident, nor possessing an acre of land, in Drogheda, were placed on these grand juries. On the same principle of unjust exclusion, the freedom of the city had been refused to sir T. Esmond, a Roman Catholic baronet of the first rank and character, while it had been granted to individuals possessing no property in the town of Drogheda.
Sir J. Newportobserved, that in the city which he had the honour to represent, the act of 1793 had had a full and fair operation. A large number of Roman Catholics had been admitted both to serve on grand juries, and to a participation in the freedom of the city. It was disgraceful to the character of other corporations
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in Ireland, that attempts should be made to render null the beneficial provisions of that act.
Mr. Humethought this subject highly deserving the attention of the House. It was impossible that tranquillity could be restored in Ireland until full justice was done to all classes of his majesty's subjects in that country. He was aware there was a difficulty in interfering with corporate rights; but, if ever there was a case in which such a course could be justified, it was the heavy grievance of which these petitioners complained; and he sincerely hoped the king's ministers would turn their serious attention to the statements contained in the petition.
Ordered to lie on the table.

SALE OF MACKAREL ON SUNDAYS—PETITION AGAINST.
Mr. Butterworthsaid, that he had a petition to present from several fishmongers and poulterers in the cities of London and Westminster, to which he wished to call the serious attention of the House. The hon. member then recited the heads of the petition, from which it appeared, that the petitioners wished to obtain the repeal of a clause in the act of William 3rd, which permits the sale of mackarel on a Sunday, on the ground that the permission is abused to sell other fish upon that day. He maintained, upon the authority of several fishmongers, that mackerel might be kept as fresh for twenty-four hours as any other fish; and, as that was the case, he trusted the House would pay some regard to the prayers of the petitioners.
Mr. Humesaid, he would not object to the bringing up of the petition, because he was of opinion, that all descriptions of persons had a right to present their petitions to the House. He could not, however, refrain from observing, that it appeared most strange to him that the petitioners should call upon the House to interfere in a matter of this nature. The petitioners prayed the House not to compel them to do a certain act, which they needed not to do unless they chose. He would put it to the fishmongers themselves whether it would not be better for them to meet together and determine not to sell fish on a Sunday than to trouble the House with such a petition. Had he been one of the gentlemen who had a conscientious objection to selling fish on the Lord's day, he should never have dreamt of calling upon the House to com-

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pel him not to do that which he might of his own accord, safely neglect to do. He would ask the House, whether it would be decent, on such grounds as the petitioners had stated, to add another penal statute to the many useless ones which already incumbered our Statute-book? If any such law were added, it would beyond a doubt, be totally inoperative.
Sir M. W. Ridleysaid, that a more ridiculous, absurd, and he would add, canting petition, had never been presented to the House [hear, hear]. If the petitioners really found a difficulty in the present practice, he would suggest to them a mode by which they could get rid of it. When the petition was printed, let their names be printed along with it. The public would then know who these conscientious and scrupulous fishmongers were, and would, perhaps take care not to trouble their tender consciences in future. If it were not irregular, he would move that the names of the petitioners be printed along with the petition.
Sir T. Baringsaid, he could not treat the petition with the ridicule which the two last speakers had endeavoured to fling upon it. If it were just to vote away the public money for the erection of new churches, on the ground that it was sound policy to diffuse proper religious feelings through the community, surely it was just to adopt such measures as would prevent any improper profanation of the Sabbath. It had been asked, why did these fishmongers, who reprobated the present practice of selling fish on a Sunday, follow it themselves? The answer was easy. If they did not sell fish on a Sunday as others of their trade did, they would soon lose all their custom, and see their families reduced to ruin.
Mr. C. Smithreminded the House, that the conscientious feelings, which prevented these scrupulous fishmongers from selling fish on a Sunday, could not by any possibility operate upon the Jews.
The petition was then brought up and read. It purported to be the petition of the there undersigned persons, comprising a considerable number engaged in several trades carried on and conducted on the Sunday, within the cities of London and Westminster, and their respective vicinities. It set forth:
"That the petitioners have for a long time past, been under the necessity of following their usual avocations on the Sunday, contrary to the true spirit and mean-
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ing of the laws of this country, contrary to the sacred principles of Christianity, and against the wishes of the petitioners, whilst it tends, as they humbly conceive, to foster every species of immorality in a numerous class of people, who are so employed, creates an utter disregard to the Sabbath-day, on which they are compelled to labour, and eventually induces them to neglect their moral as well as their religious duties: that the petitioners observe with the greatest concern, that this evil, instead of diminishing in a country professing the principles of Christianity, is, on the contrary, rapidly extending its baneful influence over many classes of society, thus throwing open, as it were, the very gates of licentiousness and immorality, as destructive to our morals as a people, as tending to lessen our character as a nation in the eyes of others, who have not yet thrown aside the external marks of morality or religion; the sad effects which the non-observance of the Sabbath has had on the morals of the people of a neighbouring nation, is but too well known, and the serious result of their demoralization is a most awful example of this evil, and points out the value and importance of this day being religiously observed, if it were only with the view of stamping upon the minds of men some principle of virtue; and the petitioners cannot but contrast the state of the nation above alluded to with that of North Britain, where a very strict attention is paid to the observance of the Sabbath, so much so, that no profession whatever is allowed to be carried on, and none exercised but what is imperiously demanded by necessity; and the petitioners beg leave to quote the following passage on this subject from a late eminent writer, who thus addressed his friend: 'You, who possess 'such genuine piety, would be greatly 'struck and delighted with the sanctified 'appearance of Sunday in Scotland; it 'differs as widely from England as England 'differs from France, where not the least 'outward semblance of the Sabbath is preserved. At the sound of the church-bell. 'as if by universal consent, the streets 'intantaneously become crowded by one 'vast multitude of every rank, all 'thronging for the same devout purpose—public 'worship; so well, but modestly, attired 'that no stranger can behold this interesting and impressive scene, without a sentiment of surprise and veneration. The 'Sabbath in Scotland is literally a day of

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'rest both for man and beast; not an article 'is either vended in the streets, or the shutter of a shop unclosed, and, except the 'mail-coach, no public vehicle is suffered 'to travel but on what are denominated 'lawful days.' That in the report of a committee of the House on the subject of the state of the police, and another on the education of the poor, it appears to have been the decided opinions of those honourable committees, that the first commencement of crime would be found to originate from a complete disregard to the Sabbath, and the want of early instruction, that might have impressed on the minds of youth the value of social virtue in their intercourse with society; that fish-mongers and poulterers in particular (many of whom are among the humble petitioners) and particularly the former, are under the painful necessity of supplying their customers with various articles of their calling on the Sunday, in which employment many journeymen and apprentices are un avoidably engaged, whereby their labour is incessant, being generally as much occupied on that day as on any other, and as the petitioners most humbly conceive unnecessarily, inasmuch as orders might be executed on the Saturday without any inconvenience, from the improved manner in which this business, as well as many others, is now conducted; many fishmongers claim a kind of legal right to trans act business on that day, from the act of 10th and 11th William 3rd. c. 24, which allows the sale
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of Mackerel on the Sunday; custom has therefore given to this business a kind of legal sanction, which those of the petitioners who are in that line cannot break through, authorized as it thus is by the act of the legislature, and were those of the petitioners who wish to abolish this labour on the Sunday, to set themselves in opposition to the now long established custom of the trade, by refusing to serve on that day, it would no doubt occasion the loss of their customers and their connection, without in any serious manner diminishing the evil complained of; thus they are under the necessity of continuing a system which at the same time they highly disapprove of; and this too has imperceptibly led on various other businesses, such as poulterers, butchers, green-grocers, and many others, into the same custom and evil of following their occupations on the Sunday; with regard to that clause of 10th and 11th of William 3rd. c. 24, which relates to the sale of Mackerel on the Sunday, whatever impediments might then exist in the way of free communication between the London market and the coast, which might have induced that parliament to have sanctioned such a measure, have long since passed away, for they now find, from the excellent state of the roads, and the great improvement of wheel-carriages, machines laden with Mackerel and other fish can arrive over land from the coast of Sussex, and other places of similar distance, at the London market in the short space of seven or eight hours, not to mention the facility with which Billingsgate is supplied by steam-boats and other vessels, and experience has decidedly proved, that Mackerel, as well as all other fish purchased on the Saturday, by due preparation, such as well cleansing, being kept in a proper cool place, &c. is in every respect as fully fit for the consumer's table on the Sunday as if actually procured from the market on that day for immediate use; and it is a well-known fact, that poulterers, fishmongers, butchers, and others, have long (from the facilities afforded by the excellent state of the roads and consequently of quick carriage as above stated) been in the habit of providing for the orders of their customers the day previous to the time for which they were required, to the equal advantage of the vendor and consumer, a decisive proof that the same rule might be adopted as regards the Sunday, and an evident conclusion that the abolition of the Sunday labour might be accomplished without any serious inconvenience resulting therefrom; the petitioners then humbly submit that the existing laws to prevent the profanation of the Sabbath are altogether inadequate to counteract the evils complained of, for they conceive that that clause of the act of 10th and 11th of William 3rd, c. 24 which allows the sale of Mackerel on the Sunday, as well as various other occupations to be conducted on that day, is a principal source from whence have originated all the evils which have been previously stated; the petitioners therefore most humbly pray, that the House may be pleased to take this petition into their serious consideration, and that the statute of the 10th and 11th of William 3rd, c. 24, or that clause thereof, or any other statute, which relates to the sale of Mackerel on the Sunday, be altogether repealed, and that the penalty for the breach of that day be then increased to the sum of 10 l. or that such other en-

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actments may be made as to the wisdom of the House shall seem meet."
On the question that it be printed,
Mr. Butterworthobserved, that whilst the law permitted one description of fish to be sold upon a Sunday, very few fishmongers would dare to refuse to sell any kind of fish that their customers might require. It was on that very account that the petitioners wished the clause, allowing the sale of Mackerel on Sundays, to be repealed. They were aware, that even if the trade were to meet and to determine among themselves not to sell fish on a Sunday, they could not prevent it from being sold by the Jews and the low Irish. With regard to the suggestion of the hon. member for Newcastle, he would merely observe that the petitioners were anxious to have their names known, and were so far from wishing to conceal them, that they had actually printed and circulated their petition with their names attached to it. He would tell the hon. member for Newcastle, that his illustrious ancestor Bishop Ridley, who suffered in the cause of the Reformation, would not have treated this petition with the ridicule which he had bestowed upon it.
The House then adjourned to the 3rd of May.