Sitting of 29 June 1820

FEMALE OFFENDERS WHIPPING BILL.
Mr. Chetwyndrose to move for leave to bring in a bill to abolish the punishment of Whipping Female Offenders in any case whatever. The House was aware, that by an act of the year 1817, the system of public whipping of females had been wholly exploded; but he was surprised that the private whipping of females had been by that measure permitted to continue, looking on it as he did as objectionable, or even more objectionable than the other. It might be said, in defence of its continuance, that it was necessary for the sake of example; but, on the other hand, as the infliction of the punishment was private, it was in the power of the gaoler or other superintendant to render it the most excruciating torture possible, or a mere matter of form; and this alone he thought a decided objection to it. With respect to the public whipping of females, he was of opinion that no exhibition could be more revolting to the feelings. The act to which he had alluded only abolished the punishment of the public whipping of females; but if the House would agree with him, they would go much further. His intention was to move for leave to bring in a bill to repeal that act, and substitute other provisions for the more effectual prevention of the whipping of females; and the object of it would be to prohibit that practice, not only in the cases already provided for, but in workhouses, houses of correction, lunatic asylums, and other places for the reception of lunatics. If, therefore, the House should be of opinion that it should in no case be permitted, he should humbly move for leave to bring in a bill to abolish the punishment of whipping female offenders in any case whatever.
Leave was given, and the bill was brought in and read a first time.

PARGA.
Lord John Russellrose for the purpose of submitting his promised motion relative to the production of a copy of the memorial presented by a native of Parga to the secretary of state. He was perfectly aware, that at the present time of the year, so near the conclusion of the session, and in the present agitated state of the public mind, it was extremely difficult for him to engage that attention which he could wish to circumstances occurring in a distant country, and not at all connected with that one paramount and domestic object which at present entirely occupied the public mind; but at the same time, he felt it his duty to urge this momentous subject, as one well-deserving the attention of parliament; and he thought that they were bound to give to the people of Parga that protection, which was not only a valuable right, and one to be extended, in such a case, of all others, but which could alone be their safeguard from the further continuance of those abuses and that oppression under which they at present laboured. The House would not expect that he should now enter into a detailed view of the question as to the cession of Parga. Would to God that he could enter into it with such effect as to be able to induce the House to commiserate the fate, and to relieve the situation, of a wronged and gallant people! Notwithstanding all the attempts which had been made by an anonymous writer to colour the transactions which had betrayed them, and to gloss over the counsels which had achieved their ruin, he thought the general opinion of mankind would be, that this was a case of as notorious treachery and as grievous injury, as any that had ever yet occurred in the world. And what had been the consequence, as regarded our own reputation? Our enemies always alluded with extreme anxiety to the case of Parga, as an instance of our acquiescence in oppression, and our desertion of the cause of freemen; and they reproached us with this fatal inconsistency—that we, who for ages, and throughout protracted wars, had stood forward as the champions of the rights of nations, were content, when the enemies of the Parguinotes required their submission, and the surrender of their rights, to act in a very different character, and upon principles contrary to those on

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which we had hitherto unsheathed our 6words.—The noble lord then briefly stated what had been the treatment which Parga had received upon the occasion of the recent cessions; and observed, that although by a former treaty with other powers, in 1800, it was stipulated that she should preserve the free exercise of her religion, that condition was broken in the very first war that ensued between Russia and Turkey. In the treaty of 1815, by which the Ionian Islands were ceded to us, no provision was made for Parga; and therefore it had been said, that the Parguinotes were excluded from the operation of that treaty. But it had been replied, and very justly, that because the treaty of 1815 alluded to that of 1800, therefore Parga was entitled to the benefit of it. The Parguinotes said, "At least let us have some security that our rights, our property, and our religion, are not to be sacrificed to the Turks." The same anonymous writer turned round upon this request, and had endeavoured to show that neither by the treaty, nor in equity, were they entitled even to these. The property which a treaty had intended to secure had been ravished from them—the religion which it had been stipulated to preserve had been violated—and the bulwarks, the safeguards, attempted to be set up, had been swept away. Now, the property of these Parguinotes, which was so given up to the Turks, was estimated, by the writer in the Quarterly Review, at 300,000 l. Let the House observe the monstrous injustice which had occurred in this part of the transaction: the buyer was permitted to estimate the property, while the seller was denied that right. The Turks were allowed to make an estimate; that privilege was refused to the Parguinotes. In the first instance, the sum of money at which their property was estimated by the British consul was 277,000 l.: the Turks, as matter of course, estimated it at very considerably less; and the estimate subsequently transmitted by sir Thomas Maitland, was of no greater an amount than 150,000 l. After the preliminary valuations were completed, and the sum thus diminished, the Parguinotes were obliged to accept payment in the Turkish alloy. This arrangement being concluded, the unhappy people wished for some spot of ground where they might erect a new town; but the place assigned for them was so barren and unpromising, that they were unable to
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use it. Their chief anxiety had been to be enabled to live in tranquillity under a just government.—The noble lord here introduced a passage from the rev. Mr. Eustace's work, in illustration of the real state of Parga; he afterwards alluded to some parts of sir T. Maitland's dispatches, observing, that that officer, as high commissioner, was placed in a very difficult situation: he possessed great power at the head of what was called the constitutional government, and was furnished with a large foreign force to suppress discontent or rebellion: he was a sovereign, without the usual checks to which even monarchs were subject; and might be considered, in some points of view, a greater man than the king, from whom he received authority. In the exercise of his powers, sir T. Maitland had taxed the people of Santa Maura very heavily, having obtained the consent of the senate, appointed by himself; but the approbation of the House of Commons of the Ionian Islands seemed to be a trifle he had entirely disregarded. The right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer might, perhaps, obtain a useful lesson of finance by listening to the plans adopted by general Maitland. He had taxed not only wine, oxen, and other ordinary commodities, but he had fixed upon one that in no other country, from the earliest times, had been subjected to an impost—water. He had required the payment of a dollar per month for every well or fountain. Even in this much-taxed country of England, such an expedient had never been resorted to. In this way the high commissioner had asserted that there was a larger surplus of revenue this year than at any former period, notwithstanding he had given salaries to some officers never before paid, and had doubled and trebled the emoluments of others. Besides, when he spoke of a surplus, he seemed to have forgotten the large sums he had received from this country, and voted by the British House of Commons, for the maintenance of his authority. His lordship was willing to allow that the government of sir T. Maitland might have been beneficial in some respects. He was an able and efficient officer; but it was very unfit that any man, however qualified, should be erected into a sovereign so despotic. His conduct regarding cern had been perfectly orthodox; he had taken the whole subsistence of the island of Corfu into his own hands. It might be

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very true that formerly a few merchants monopolized the trade in grain; but it did not follow that on this account it was fit that such an advantage ought to be seized by the executive authorities. Having referred to certain opinions expressed by sir T. Maitland on the subject of reform, and to complaints made against him and transmitted to Petersburg, his lordship concluded by moving for the copy of a memorial presented to the secretary of state for the colonial department, by a native of Parga, and for certain copies of or extracts from the dispatches of sir Thomas Maitland relative to Parga.
Mr. Goulbumcongratulated the House, that after two or three years of misrepresentations, invented with art and circulated with industry, the time was not far distant when the documents to be laid upon the table of parliament would lay the whole case regarding Parga fairly before the country. The House would then be able to judge whether the resignation of this island was, as had been asserted, an act of grievous treachery, or whether, on the contrary, it had not been inevitable, if any regard was to be paid to positive and distinct engagements. The whole of the speech of the noble lord afforded the strongest confirmation that he himself entertained some doubt upon the question. If the case of Parga manifestly and indisputably reflected disgrace on the British government, would the noble lord have thought it necessary to wander about in search of subsidiary matter not really and fairly connected with the point at issue, but relating to the whole government of the Ionian islands? The talents and dexterity of the noble lord would not have been so exerted, had he not been sensible that he must find something or other to bolster up a bad case. The noble lord had alluded to certain anonymous statements recently published regarding Parga but he gave the noble lord credit for being unconnected with other anonymous statements elsewhere printed, which had led to that refutation. He maintained that the British government had not restored Parga to Turkey, without being fully satisfied that the latter had an indisputable right to the island; and he proceeded to prove his assertion by reference to the treaty of Campo Formio, by which it had been first made over to France, and subsequently relinquished to Turkey. The war between France and the Porte broke out in 1798, and the joint fleets of Russia
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and Turkey soon after took possession of the Ionian islands. The treaty of 1800, which followed, was one of temporary distribution, not of final cession; but not long afterwards, namely, in 1801, the Ionian islands, including Parga, were given in sovereignty to Turkey, with, however, a distinct government of their own. This amounted to a direct transfer, and the contract was as complete as any that had ever occurred between two nations. In 1806, Russia declared war against Turkey, and conquered Parga and the other possessions of the Porte on the Albanian coast; but when peace was subsequently made, the integrity of the Turkish dominions was fully recognised. There was nothing, therefore, to warrant Great Britain in assigning the rights of sovereignty over Parga to any other power than Turkey. It was very true that in the treaty formed at the Congress of Vienna no mention was made of Parga; but this was not an accidental omission, inasmuch as Turkey being no party to the negotiations, it would have been most extraordinary if she or her dependencies had been introduced into the treaty. The very engagement under which the British troops had entered Parga prevented this government from keeping possession of it; and he denied most positively, that there was any understanding that it should remain in the hands of this country. He had searched all the papers in the colonial office, and could find no document relative to any authority given on the part of this government to lead the inhabitants of Parga into a belief that they were to remain under the protection of Great Britain. He had then written to sir James Campbell, the commanding officer on that station, for the purpose of learning whether he had directed any subordinate officer to make such a communication, or to hold forth such a prospect. The answer (which sir James Campbell did not write, for the state of his health disabled him, but which he dictated) was, that he had authorized no person to enter into an engagement or-to give any assurance to that effect. The course which government had to pursue, therefore, was distinctly marked, and could not be mistaken. It was a course of duty and a path prescribed by the letter of an express stipulation with another power. He was sure that, whatever difference of opinion might prevail, on the question of the general policy of our treaties with the Porte, no honourable mem-

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ber would deny the necessity of our faithfully performing the engagements which we had contracted. With regard to the mode of restoration, and the circumstances under which that proceeding had been conducted, he only begged that, before any gentleman formed an opinion, he would carefully consider what course it was practicable to adopt. As far as the treatment of the Parguinotes by the Turkish government was in question, they had not complained of it, nor had any of those inconveniencies or oppressions, of which so much was said, been experienced during the six years of their dependence on that state. Parga, it must be recollected, stood in absolute need of the protection of some foreign power; she had not within herself the means of support or of self-defence for a single week. It would have been most impolitic in the British government to have embarked in any guarantee which it was not prepared to maintain against Turkey. But at the same time that it was announced to the inhabitants that the island itself was to be transferred to Turkey, a declaration was published, that those who were averse to the new government would be permitted to retire. The only question then was, whether the Parguinotes had received the bonâ fide value of their property, on their accepting the offer of retiring with their effects. Notwithstanding all that had been urged on this point, he was satisfied that, if the documents were attentively perused, no doubt would exist that adequate compensation had been afforded. These would show clearly, and beyond all dispute, that the Parguinotes had received full value for all which they possessed. He well knew that their own estimate amounted to no less than 600,000 l.—an immense value, when it was distributed over one town, and divided among 2,700 persons. It was impossible to believe that this general valuation of their property was correct. He would also draw the attention of the House to the circumstance, that the Parguinotes had not been left like other people to the chances of private purchase, but that the government had taken upon itself to pay at a just valuation. The compensation actually afforded exceeded the limit fixed by the individual who had been most anxious to defend their interests. He trusted, therefore, that the House would not be disposed to put any faith in the correctness of the estimate which had been alluded to by the
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noble lord. So different were the valuations which had been made, that one amounted to 50,000 l., and another to 280,000 l. The House would recollect, that the value of property could not be measured by any simple rule, but depended not only on the character of the government, but on many other fortuitous circumstances. To swell it in this instance beyond the limit which had been fixed would, he was persuaded, be to err as much as it would be to take the annual produce of an estate in the West Indies, cultivated by the labour of slaves, and assign to it the same number of years purchase as to landed property in England. The Parguinotes had no right to expect the value of their land, when they were informed by the governor of the Ionian islands that a tract of land was to be assigned to them, and means furnished for building churches. The documents on the table presented abundant and conclusive evidence of the fitness of the place to which they had been removed. Exact descriptions had been given in of every species of property; no general or average calculation had been relied on; and although the Parguinotes complained that the sum allotted was unequal to the claims of justice or to their rights, he had not met with a single instance of an individual objecting to the smallness of his own particular share. The noble lord had adverted to another point, touching the supposed harshness of the instructions sent out to sir T. Maitland, and to his harshness in executing them. It had been urged, that the conduct of sir T-Maitland was not to be justified by any circumstances. The substance of the instructions, however, was, that the British government would not agree to support the labouring classes in idleness, and that as soon as they reached their new abodes they must depend on their own resources. What other course, he would ask, was it open to government to pursue, unless it was prepared to support almost the whole population of Parga for an indefinite period? He was not then in a situation to enter upon a defence of the whole administration of sir T. Maitland, but he would say that the taxes he had imposed were fully justified by the exigencies of the case. That officer had abolished the monopoly of corn, which he found in existence on his arrival, and established a free trade. It was not until compelled by necessity that he re-enacted the mono-

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poly, which he could only do by taking it into the hands of government. At the time when this proceeding was adopted, there were not more than seven days' provisions in the place. As to the other complaints against that distinguished officer, he might safely rest the answer on his general character through a long course of service; and he was sure that the more his conduct was examined, the more it would be found to deserve approbation. He should be ready to enter at any time into this discussion, and was confident that when the whole subject was before them there would be but one opinion respecting it.
Sir Robert Wilsonsaid, his opinion bad always been, that it was impossible, considering the situation of Parga, for us to keep possession of it. That possession must be deemed as offensive to Turkey, as Dover in the hands of the French would be to us, or Calais in our possession to the French. What he complained of and lamented was, that England should have charged itself with the odious responsibility of the cession. When that proceeding, however, was adopted, the most scrupulous care should have been taken to secure to the inhabitants the full value of their property. There was at present every reason to believe that the Parguinotes were dissatisfied; that they did not think they had received the protection which had been promised to them; and that our character had suffered in the eyes of Europe.
Mr. Humeobserved, that, feeling as he did for the condition of a people who had been compelled to remove from their native homes, he hoped the House would excuse him for offering a few observations on the subject. He admitted that Parga stood in need of some protecting power, and had been for a long time dependent on the Venetian republic. The treaty of Tilsit had, however, as he conceived, distinctly conveyed it by name, with the other Ionian islands, to France. It afterwards fell into our hands by conquest and the treaty of 1815. This at least was the general understanding; and the impression of the Parguinotes themselves certainly was, that they were to share in the fate of the other islands. With respect to the officer alluded to by the hon. gentleman opposite to have raised expectations in the minds of the people of Parga which could not fairly be fulfilled, he must say, that he had the pleasure of being acquaint-
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ed with colonel de Bosset, the officer alluded to, when he commanded in the island of Cephalonia; that there was not a more honourable or well-deserving officer under the Crown; his plan appeared the fairest, namely, to value the rentals for a certain number of years, and fix the price of each person's property upon that principle. Besides the roads, bridges, and other improvements of the same nature, which colonel de Bosset caused to be made in Cephalonia, it was that officer who had the honour of extirpating the unfortunate practice of homicide, which so generally prevailed in that country previous to his arrival; and he would rest the defence of that officer on the question, whether one out of one hundred of the inhabitants would refuse to bear testimony in his favour? He was well convinced that colonel de Bosset's conduct towards the inhabitants of Parga would reflect as much credit as all his other acts in the Ionian islands. As to the conduct of sir T. Maitland, some further explanation was, he thought, desirable. It could not be denied, whatever might have caused the alteration, that before he went there all was peace and unanimity, and that complaints had since become general. It did not appear to him that the valuation of property at Parga had been made on a just principle; it had been made according to the standard at Corfu, which was as inapplicable as it would be to appreciate property in this country by its value in France. The first estimate which had been founded on annual rental was, in his opinion, the correct one. Another complaint was, that the inhabitants of Parga had been kept in ignorance for a considerable time of the mode in which the estimate was drawn up, and of the principle upon which the valuation was conducted. Two valuations had, he believed, been made, but no decisive information had been given on the subject. Whatever those valuations might have been, general Maitland took no notice of them; but in his proclamation, of the 19th of March, declared that only a sum of 150,000 l. was to be distributed amongst the inhabitants. What he wished to know was, whether the valuation was 120,000 l., or 150,000 l. or 270,000 l. Such a proceeding, as the noble mover had said, was rather a harsh one to be employed, when these unfortunate individuals were forced from their homes. But even from this 150,000 l. a deduction was made,

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on the ground that the payment should be in Spanish dollars—in good current money. The payment was, however, made in bad money, but the deduction was not, therefore, relinquished. A few months ago, 48,000 l. were deducted from the gross sum of 150,000 l., to cover different expenses, and the loss by exchange. Now, though this large deduction was made, instead of being paid in good money, as they had been promised, five-sixths of the whole sum was in reality base money. He understood that general Maitland had since offered to restore this 48,000 l., provided the Parguinotes would give up all farther claims. Last year ministers stated the island of Marganese would be given up to the Parguinotes, and this place was described as a fine fruitful territory, where they might easily build a town. He, however, had been there, and it was nothing but a heap of stones, where it would be almost impossible to form a garden. The portion of Corfu which was appropriated to the use of these unfortunate people was, he believed, equally barren. The whole of this transaction he viewed as a stain and disgrace on the character of the British government. It was so considered by foreign nations, and by the great body of the community here. All that could be done then was, to make a proper recompense in a pecuniary way to these people. If the valuation had been too low, or if any impediment had taken place in adjusting the settlement; in the one case, the valuation ought to be revised, in the other, that which was due to those people should be promptly paid.
Mr. Goulburndenied that the Parguinotes were not paid the whole sum promised them.
Mr. Humesaid, he rested on the proclamation of the governor of the 19th of June, stating that 113,000 l. only should be paid.
Mr. Goulburnsaid, that that circumstance admitted of an explanation.
Lord J. Russell,in reply, said, that as the inhabitants of Parga had surrendered themselves on the understanding that they should follow the fate of the Ionian isles, he still thought faith had not been kept with them. If the great powers at the congress of Vienna had acted as they professed, on the principle of restitution, he should have been satisfied. Venice would then have been restored, and Parga would have been put under the
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protection of Venice. But they had destroyed Venice, they had destroyed Parga; they had divided Saxony and destroyed Genoa. So much was their profession of a return to the ancient state of things attended to.
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. Maxwellpresented a petition from Benjamin Wills, honorary secretary to the provisional committee for the encouragement of industry, praying that parliament would take some steps to provide the people with proper employment, and thus prevent them from falling into that state of degradation which must inevitably ensue, if they were not able, by their labour, to support themselves.

COTTON-WEAVERS.
Mr. Maxwell,in rising to move for a select committee to inquire imto the nature of the distress by which the Cotton Weavers were affected, and to consider whether there was any practicable mode by which assistance could be extended to them, felt it necessary to make a few observations explanatory of his reasons for bringing forward a partial motion. When the whole community were suffering, and the manufacturing districts were plunged in such a state of misery as was now presented—when individuals were unable to procure employment, and found it wholly impossible to maintain themselves—he felt that he should have grossly neglected his duty, if he had not before the close of the session called the serious attention of government to the distress that prevailed. If they could not do away that distress altogether, they might, perhaps, devise some means by which it might be alleviated. The table had been covered with statements, both from the workpeople themselves, and from the magistrates, detailing to that House and to the government, the extent of the misery that prevailed. They admitted that great irritation existed; but they traced that irritation to the severe privations to which the lower classes of the community had unfortunately been too long exposed. He was astonished that ministers, who had extended relief to particular individuals, and even to the throne itself, should have overlooked these frequent calls. The distress which they had endeavoured to avert could not for a moment be placed in competition with that which he had described. When a motion for a committee to consider the state of the manufacturing population was

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submitted to the House it was refused; and yet he conceived it might as well have been acceded to since, if measures were not devised for the relief of that population, it would at least have shown that parliament were ready to listen to their complaints. They were told by ministers that no reform was required—that they anxiously considered by what means they could diminish the pressure of distress, which weighed down the working classes; but, in his opinion, the greatest proof that could be adduced in favour of reform was the constant refusal of inquiry. When 25 per cent had been added to the taxes, in order to meet the interest of the national debt—that offspring of the most wanton and lavish expenditure that any country had ever witnessed—ought they not to inquire whether some means might not be discovered by which an addition might be made to that industry on which those grievous burdens were imposed? While the master manufacturers, and other classes of society, were rioting in every species of luxury, the poor operative labourer was placed in a situation degrading to the character of the country. The House ought to listen to their complaints, and prove the fallacy of those arguments which were founded on the general feeling that parliament paid no attention to the people. Let them look to the cotton trade. They pursued it in vain. It was receding from them, like an ignis fatuus. It was growing less and less every hour. Many individuals in that house treated circumstances of this kind with the utmost coolness. They said it was no use to interfere. Things must find their level. That was as much as to declare, that if no means at present appeared by which the people could live in comfort, therefore none should be sought for, and all should be left to chance. Notwithstanding that feeling, it might perhaps be shown to a committee, that means did exist by which the industry of the working classes could be rendered efficient, not only to support themselves, but to augment the revenue of the country, or to produce even a better effect—the diminution of taxation, by spreading it over a larger surface. for that reason it was that he wished to obtain a select committee. There was at present a portion of machinery which wholly escaped those burdens that were imposed on machinery of a different kind—that kind of machinery, one-half of which consisted of animal life.
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There was a machine called "a power-loom," which machine, even now, as well as during the war, was met in competition by the simple loom of the individual weaver; but with this great advantage-that all the goods which the power-loom produced were exempt from the drawback necessarily created by the consumption of those articles on which the weaver was compelled to exist, and on which he paid a heavy rate of taxation. As it was rather an abstract question how far the two species of machinery should be placed on a level, he wished to have a committee to investigate it; and to consider whether the capital of the poor man, which consisted in the labour of his two hands, must bear the burden of taxation, since those articles, without which he could not exist, were taxed; while the large capital of the wealthy manufacturer, which he invested in a machine, was suffered to escape any contribution to the revenue. He did not wish to do away machinery, from which incalculable benefits had been derived; but he wished to see whether the advantages which had been produced by it did not arise in a great degree from its being exempted from the consumption of articles which the poor weaver was obliged to use, and on which heavy taxes were laid. It was a matter of serious consideration whether capital, shut up in machinery, should be useless to the revenue—when, if it were not so shut up, it would, according to the laws of nature, be expended in animal labour. There was another point well worthy of consideration—he meant the laws relating to combination amongst the working classes. The wealthy part of the trading community possessed the means of combining, to an immeasureable extent, for the purpose of depressing the wages of the labourer, while the operative manufacturer was liable to punishment if he attempted to raise them. There should certainly be no distinction of that kind between the wealthy and the indigent. Another point to be considered was whether some means ought not to be taken, by way of experiment, to try the practicability of removing some few of the working classes from avocations by the pursuit of which they could not obtain subsistence, and placing them in other situations where their industry might be useful and productive. When, however, individuals brought forward plans of this nature, they were generally refused a committee to investigate

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them. They were laughed at, and treated as people of feeling hearts, but of feeble understanding. This, he thought, was a very poor recompence for those who devoted their time to such praiseworthy objects. Sir John Sinclair, Rowcroft, Owen, and Wills, were not perhaps the first names amongst the aristocracy of the country; but they had considered how the situation of the people could be ameliorated, and were therefore entitled to respect. They wished to rescue the people from that situation which was likely to make them bad subjects, and to sink them below the level of human nature. The endeavour that had been so long persisted in to undersell other markets had no other effect but to overwhelm every class of the community by a weight of poor's-rates. Of the different plans which he had seen—and he had probably seen and examined more than the right hon. gentleman, because his feelings bad been more excited on the subject—he thought the application of public money for providing lands to those who could obtain no employment at their looms one of the best. If exchequer-bills were so applied, instead of expending public money on canals, along which there was no commerce to pass, or on harbours frequented by no ships, the benefit would be greater and more obvious. Ample security could be given to government by mortgage on the lands. The labourers thus employed would pay 10 or 12 per cent; and they would improve the revenue by the consumption of exciseable articles; they would at the same time relieve other labourers at the looms, by increasing their employment, and raising them from their present miserable and degraded level. He should reserve his opinions on other points—opinions which were there-suit of much attention and time for the committee, who could more deliberately consider the subject. He should now simply implore the House to consider bow far their conduct had been calculated to allay the unhappy spirit which was lamented in the speech from the throne. It appeared to him doubtful, whether it was economical or wise to rear barracks, raise additional troops, fill up battalions, call forth volunteers and yeomanry corps at an enormous expense, as a means of allaying the spirit caused by distress. Not less than 400,000 l. had been expended in this manner last year, as a reply to the cry of hunger and distress. He was not finding fault with this expenditure, for
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ministers were responsible for the security of the state, but it would have been far more agreeable to him if this sum had been applied to the relief of the distressed—if that House and his majesty's government had manifested a deep feeling for the distresses of the poor. Subscriptions had been raised for Germans and Portuguese; relief had been given to French refugees and American loyalists; money had been lavished to embellish Henry the Seventh's chapel, which had better be left in the rust of antiquity than be covered with modern garnish; money had been even voted for improving the city of Dublin. Those expenses struck him, not as improper, but as injudicious. He submitted to the right hon. gentleman opposite, if his ingenuity in finding new subjects of taxation was not exhausted, whether it was not possible to tax foreign cooks, French lacqueys, and Swiss porters, for it appeared from the Alien-bill that they were very numerous in this country. Another gross anomaly was, that a great number who possessed much property in this country, lived out of the country and thus injured the industry and revenue of the country. Others who had not much property lived in other countries, and drew pensions from this country, as half-pay officers. Their income would not support them so well in this country, and it might be impolitic to prevent them from leaving it; but relief to severe distress ought to be sought by risking even an impolitic measure. His object in making these observations was to submit to the attention of parliament sentiments which were circulated, canvassed, and felt elsewhere, especially in that part of the country from which he came. If he should not succeed in obtaining a committee, he should at least have given ministers an opportunity of explaining conduct which appeared unintelligible. He respected ministers, and some of them he had the honour of calling his friends; but while he had a seat in that House he should tell them freely what he thought of their conduct. Was it consistent with I the harmony of the universe that one class of men should want the necessaries of life, while another abounded in every luxury and superfluity? If the right hon. gentleman believed in the existence of a Supreme Being wise, powerful, and benevolent—if he had any feeling of humanity —if he possessed any part of the spirit of that religion which we all professed, he

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would ask whether it was consistent with his ideas of the grand attributes of the Supreme Being that his moral government of the world should suffer one man to sink below the state for which all men had been intended, and another to rise higher almost than to be susceptible of human feeling or rational enjoyment? There was no man but must feel a lively anxiety to know how long the institutions of this country were to remain; it was not to be disguised, that the people in all parts of Europe looked towards America and her institutions with sympathy, whilst they felt nothing but disgust at the expenses of their own governments. He did not say that those expenses had not become necessary, but. it was surely alarming to see taxation arrive at such an extent as to endanger the existence of our institutions both in church and state. If it should be thought that these were strong observations, he answered that he made them in order to show what feelings he entertained in common with multitudes of others throughout the country. He was in a very different situation of life from many who entertained those views and his opinions might therefore be thought of less importance; but he implored his majesty's ministers to consider what effect such sentiments must have upon those who were in the very extremity of distress, and to whom it was little matter whether they were to live or die. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving, "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the means of relieving the Cotton Weavers, which may be attempted without injury to the community."
Mr. Robinsonobserved, that it was tolerably well known he was no advocate for parliamentary reform and he was the less so, because he was unwilling to convert the House into a college of disputants. But his hon. friend seemed disposed, from the variety of subjects to which he had adverted, to render the committee he proposed quite an arena for disputation, and the very first point which he would have this committee discuss was an abstract idea. That a committee might be useful and essential in collecting and arranging facts and information he was ready to admit, but this was, he believed, the first time it was proposed to refer to a committee the discussion of an abstract idea. The hon. member's professed object was, to benefit the cotton manufacturers, but how that was to be done by such taxes as he pro-
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posed upon foreign servants and absentees, he was at a loss to imagine-With respect to the absentees, many, he believed the great majority of them, were obliged to resort to other countries for cheap living, in consequence of the depression of their circumstances; and would the hon. member seriously press for an aggravation of those circumstances by the imposition of an additional tax? Would parliament consent to such injustice, or, he would say to such inhumanity and impolicy? The hon, member deprecated luxury, for which he (Mr. R.) was certainly no advocate, as a moral good; but he apprehended it might easily be shown in various ways, such as the number of servants, or the general amount of expense among the rich, that the abandonment of luxury would tend rather to aggravate than to relieve the distress of the labouring classes. In what the hon. member had advanced on the means of relieving the distress of the manufacturer, he professed to echo the language of his constituents, and this furnished an additional argument against the proposed committee, the appointment of which would only serve to propagate delusion, without leading to any practical good, or even to any temporary palliative for the evils complained of. At all events, from the variety of matter which the hon. member proposed to submit to the committee, in conjunction with his abstract ideas, he could hardly suppose it would be thought possible, at this period of the session, to make any progress in such a complicated investigation. On those grounds, then, he felt it his duty to move the previous question.
Mr. Ricardosaid, that he conceived the duty of government to be, to give the greatest possible development to industry. This they could do only by removing the obstacles which had been created. He complained therefore of government on very different grounds from the hon. mover, for his complaint was against the restrictions on trade, and other obstacles of that description, which opposed the development of industry. The recommendations of the hon. mover were inconsistent with the contrast between one class and another. If government interfered, they would do mischief and no good. They had already interfered, and done mischief by the poorlaws. The principles of the hon. mover would likewise violate the sacredness of. property, which constituted the great security of society.
Mr. Lockhartopposed the motion, conceiving that its adoption would only serve to hold out false hopes, which might probably induce the agriculturists and other classes of the people whose distress was quite equal to that of those for whom the hon. mover was an advocate, to make similar applications to that House. He particularly deprecated the hon. member's proposition to tax absentees, for such a tax would most probably urge those to take away their capitals from this country who at present only spent their incomes in (other nations, and the capital once taken away was by no means likely to return. He disagreed with the plans of spade-husbandry, and others, which had been proposed, because they all appeared on a nearer view to be futile. The House at any rate could not grant a committee until some of those plans should be found effectual, by the experience of people out of doors. Besides, if the House granted a committee to the cotton weavers, the agricultural labourers, and almost all others, would have an equally good claim to consideration, and would scarcely fail to urge it. Time alone and patience, which he doubted not the people would show, could cure the difficulties under which they laboured.
Mr. Maxwell,after a short reply, consented to withdraw his motion until the next session. The motion was accordingly withdrawn.