Sitting of 7 July 1819

CAMELFORD ELECTION.
Mr. D. W. Harvey, after stating that he thought some further inquiry relative to the borough of Camelford necessary, in consequence of the reports of two committees, and that there would not be time in the present session to pursue and complete that inquiry, moved a resolution that the House would renew the investigation early in the next session, and that the Speaker should not issue his writ for a new election until 10 days after the next meeting of the House.
Mr. Primroseargued against the resolution, contending, that the evidence of Mr. Hallet put an end to all imputation upon the two sitting members, and in a great degree relieved the borough from the general charge of corruption. He moved, as an amendment, that the report
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of the committee be now taken into consideration.
Mr. Tremaynethought that the special report of the select committee was fully warranted by the evidence, and that the two sitting members had been brought within the 49th Geo. 3rd: if the evidence against them was circumstantial, it was because Mr. Hallet and Mr. Harvey had kept out of the way.
Lord Ebringtonsaid, that if ever there was a case in which the House was bound to interfere, either from a regard to its own consistency, or for carrying into effect that most moderate species of reform which so many members of it (though hostile to any general measure) had expressed themselves anxious to have adopted, he did not see how they could avoid pursuing the same course, in the instance of Camelford, which they had with respect to other boroughs, wherein the same practices had been detected. It should be recollected, that at Penryn, which the House had so justly visited with its condemnation, the report of the committee had been confined to a few cases of individual bribery; whereas here, we have the collective sentiments of two committees in the same sessionߞthe former, as to the general corruption of the borough, and the latter, as to the persons who had been the principal actors in these disgraceful scenes. His hon. friend had argued, that because Mr. Hallet had stated in evidence, that his corrupt proposal to the electors of Camelford had not been accepted, it was therefore to be presumed that they were altogether innocent; for his own part, he could draw no such conclusion, nor, when he considered the very suspicious circumstances under which Mr. Hallett came before them, and the manner in which he had given that evidence, could he place any great reliance on his testimony in this case. He thought the House could not hesitate a moment as to the necessity of withholding the writ till next session, that we might then effectually prosecute that inquiry which the facts before us so imperiously called for.
Lord Normanbyexpressed his decided concurrence in the opinion of the noble lord with regard to the propriety of transferring the right of voting from boroughs convicted of general corruption, for he could not conceive the justice of still leaving the right of voting to those who had abused that right by the grossest corruption, which must be the case ac-

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cording to the system of merely extending that right to the adjoining hundreds.
Mr. Gurneysaid, he had heard the latter part of the noble lord's speech with great satisfaction, and did hope if these boroughs were disfranchised, that Manchester and Birmingham would take their place in the representation, and not the adjacent hundreds. Perhaps there could be no instance in which this hundred system would appear more strikingly absurd than this of Camelford. Camelford was made a free borough by Richard, king of the Romans, in 1259; It is not even a parish: Lanteglos, the parish in which it is situate, contains, by the last population returns, only 1,100 inhabitants, It never sent members to parliament till the last year of Edward 6th, when the duchy of Cornwall being in the Crown, and the Commons having refused to pass the bills of attainder against the adherents of Somerset, Dudley, duke of Northumberland, dissolved the parliament, sent a circular to the sheriffs, stating whom they were to return, and first summoned nine Cornish boroughs, of which Camelford was one, the mayor, eight aldermen, and ten freemen being the only voters; and Camelford, now before the House a second time the same session, is situated in a hundred, which includes another borough of the like description, whilst there are eight boroughs in the three hundreds adjoining. He could hardly avoid the remark, that the House had been referred to the reign of queen Elizabeth as the purest period of our parliamentary history, whilst, in fact, the duchy of Cornwall still remaining in the Crown, queen Elizabeth summoned seven more Cornish boroughs, in addition to those first receiving precepts under Edward 6th, making part of 31 boroughs, added to the representation during her reign, and every one boroughs of nomination. Now, the first precedent of throwing a borough to the hundreds being so extremely modern, as well as so perfectly anomalous, and the introduction of important places to the right of furnishing representatives to parliament supported by so long a series of precedents, as, for example, the Welsh counties and towns in the reign of Henry 8th; Durham so late as that of Charles 2nd.—
Lord Castlereaghhere rose to order, remarking that the question into which the hon. member was entering, was not yet ripe for discussion, and in order that the inquiry should be really bona fide, he
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recommended the postponement of its further progress until the next session.
Mr. Gurneysaid, he must confess that he had been considerably out of order in alluding to what had passed in former debates; but if any more of these boroughs were to be disfranchised, he did consider the subsequent proceedings of the House of such extreme importance, in the present state of public opinion, that he was anxious to express his hope that the course would be taken which, in his mind, could alone lead to any advantage, and the only one defensible on any ground either of reason, or ancient precedent.
The resolutions moved by Mr. Harvey were then agreed to.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS BILL.
Mr. Abercrombyrose to obtain leave to bring in a bill for the purpose of continuing the act now in existence for a limited term. The House was aware, that the new bill, prepared by a committee of its own appointment, and approved after long and repeated discussions, by the House itself, had been rejected in another place. The general principle of that bill was one for rendering the administration of justice with respect to insolvent debtors analogous to that of the bankrupt laws. In the circumstances, however, under which the House was now placed, it appeared to him, that the most advisable course which could be pursued was, to pass a short bill, extending the duration of the present act till the expiration of three months after the commencement of the next session. The general object appeared to him so manifestly desirable, the evil of overflowing gaols and the demands of humanity and justice so obvious, that he could not doubt what would be the decision of the House. He then moved for leave to bring in a bill, for continuing, during a limited period, the acts of the 53rd, 54th, and 56th of his present majesty, relative to the law of Insolvent Debtors.
Sir W. Curtisfeared, that too many persons already in gaol were there as voluntary inhabitants, and thought it would be much more expedient to let the present act die a natural death.
Mr. Waithmunconceived that no ground whatever had been laid for the course proposed. The committee that sat during the present session, had received evidence which clearly established all the grievances complained of in the various petitions winch had been presented to the

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House. He felt satisfied, that the authors of the rejected bill were the best friends to the unfortunate debtor; and that it was the duty of the House to resist the course of legislation which it was now attempted to introduce.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that when he found that if no new law could be perfected, the consequence must be a return to the old, with all its acknowledged inconveniences, he could not hesitate to give his support to the present motion.
Mr. Calcraftdeclared, that he felt a little sore at the manner in which the old law had been treated, nor was he satisfied with the reasons assigned for renewing the present act. Under all the circumstances, however, he should vote for the motion.
Mr. G. Lambdeclared his aversion to any continuance of the existing law. Parliament had temporised too long upon this subject, and he should certainly prefer a return for a limited time to the old system.
Mr. Serjeant Onslowdisapproved of any adjournment till some understanding on this subject had been come to with the other House.
Lord Ebrington,Lord Ebrington, though he regretted to oppose what was intended as an act of grace to many unfortunate individuals, yet could not but complain of such a proposition as this, after the numerous petitions, showing the gross system of fraud and abuse produced by the operation of this bill. To remedy these evils, a measure had been framed by the labours of a most industrious and effective committee, which appeared to reconcile the contending interests and opinions of all parties affected by it; but which, after receiving the unanimous concurrence of that House, was now thrown out by the Lords, because at that period of the session, they could not afford sufficient time for its discussion. And under these circumstances, we were invited to renew the former act, stigmatized as it was by the complaints of our constituents, and by our own recorded opinion of its mischief and absurdity. As to the objection about the funds in the hands of the court, he thought it would be much more expedient to bring in a specific bill to guard those funds, and to revert to the old law till next session.
Mr. Courtenaywas strongly disposed to concur with the sentiments of his noble friend who had just sat down. It was impossible to overlook the evil consequences of the law as it now stood.
Sir James Mackintoshconsidered the present measure the best, under existing circumstances, that could be suggested, for carrying into effect the petitions of the people. The wish of the public was, either that the present law should be amended, or that a new one should be enacted; but they did not expect that this was to be done in a day. Sufficient time must be allowed to enable the legislature to give effect to this wish; and that time, the measure of his hon. and learned friend was calculated to afford. If we once got under the operation of the old law, we should find it extremely difficult to revert to that principle which constituted the best part of the present act—the cessio bonorum. At present the prisons were crowded with debtors, who had been led to expect liberation under the act; and there was, therefore, a sort of parliamentary pledge that these expectations should, not be disappointed. He could not refrain from observing, that in his opinion the law of debtor and creditor looked too little to property, and too much to the person.
Sir R. Wilsonsaid, that the measure of his hon. and learned friend met with his entire approbation.
After some further conversation, the House divided: Ayes, 80; Noes, 26. A bill was then brought in, which was allowed to go through the several stages, and passed.

SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. Wilberforcesaid, that the object of his present motion was, that the efforts of his majesty's ministers should be renewed with those foreign powers that had formerly carried on the Slave Trade, but had passed laws for abolishing that trade, in order to induce those powers to take measures for the more effectually carrying the abolition into execution. In consequence of the communications made by his noble friend (Castlereagh) to the powers assembled at Vienna, one of the most forcible declarations ever penned was unanimously adopted by all the great powers at Vienna, denouncing the African slave trade, as contrary to every principle of humanity, and as one of the greatest practical evils that ever existed. There was now but one single power, Portugal, which had not declared the slave trade a mass of injustice and cruelty, and fixed a definite time for the termination of that trade. Spain bad abolished it absolutely to

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the north of the line, and fixed a period for its termination to the south of the line. So that Portugal alone bad not fixed a period when the slave trade should absolutely terminate. With suspect to the trade, he regretted to say, however, that notwithstanding the laws passed in several countries for its abolition, it was still carried on—it had been found impossible to sweep away at once that incurable race of free-booters who infested Africa. The persons carrying on the trade were of all nations, English, Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and American? But at length a system of international policy had been adopted with respect to this subject, so that it was to be hoped those persons would not be able to escape the punishment they deserved. Unhappily, however, two great powers had hitherto refused to enter into these arrangements, and he could not but regret that these powers had not of themselves taken measures for rendering the abolition of the trade effectual. It grieved him to think that a great and high-minded people, a nation of cavaliers like the French, should refuse to take the proper measures for putting an end to this trade; while we, who had been called a shop-keeping nation, had given up the trade, it was not a little surprising that it should be taken up by a high-minded nation, who had never been considered in any great degree as possessing a commercial character, and most of all, that they should think of assuming that character, in the instance of a traffic like this. Surely a few predatory men would not be suffered to injure the character of a great country. With regard to the United States of America, he was still more hurt that they did not take effectual means to put a stop to this trade. They were the first to declare that the slave trade should be abolished. As soon as the forms of the constitution admitted of it, they passed a law for the abolition. Many states of the Union were perfectly sincere in their wish to put an end to the trade; but unfortunately, there were other parts where a similar wish was not so generally prevalent, and which would not consent to measures for rendering this abolition effectual. The Congress, however, had lately passed a law on the subject, appointing a large naval force, and giving a bounty for bringing in ships engaged in the trade. He trusted that the United States would provide fur the practical
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execution of their benevolent intentions, as parts of Africa were in a way to show what the friends of Africa always asserted, that but for the disadvantages under which they had been placed the genius and temper of the inhabitants would have secured them a progress in civilization equal to other quarters of the world. The much calumniated colony of Sierra Leone, now presented the spectacle of a flourishing settlement: 2,000 children were in a course of instruction, and 8 or 9,000 free blacks were beginning to taste the advantages of civilization. He was perfectly sure that the best means of inducing other countries to make efforts for the final abolition of this trade, was, to show them how much we had at heart to afford Africa reparation for the injury she had; suffered at our hands. It was only because it was supposed that the victory was gained that the country was quiet; if they knew that the contrary was the fact, they would show that they did not feel in this great cause less earnestly.—The hon. member concluded by moving,
"That an humble Address be presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, to assure his royal highness, that we acknowledge, with becoming thankfulness, the zealous and persevering efforts which, in conformity with former addresses of this House, his royal highness has made for accomplishing the total annihilation of the African Slave Trade, by all the foreign powers whose subjects had hitherto been engaged in it:—That we also congratulate his Royal Highness on the success with which his efforts have been already attended; that guilty traffic having been declared, by the concurrent voice of all the great powers of Europe assembled in Congress, to be 'repugnant to the principles of humanity and of universal morality:'— That, consequently, on this declaration, all the states, whose subjects were formerly concerned in this criminal traffic, have since prohibited it; the greater part absolutely and entirely; some for a time, partially, on that part of the coast of Africa only which is to the north of the line: of the two states which still tolerate the traffic, one will soon cease to be thus distinguished; the period which Spain has solemnly fixed for the total abolition of the trade being near at hand: one power alone has hitherto forborne to specify any period when the traffic shall be absolutely abandoned:—That the United States of America were honourably distinguished

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as the first which pronounced the condemnation of this guilty traffic; and that they have since successively passed various laws for carrying their prohibition into effect: That, nevertheless, we cannot but hear with feelings of deep regret, that, notwithstanding the strong condemnation of the crime by all the great powers of Europe, and by the United States of America, there is reason to fear that the measures which have been hitherto adopted for actually suppressing these crimes are not yet adequate to their purpose:—That we never, however, can admit the persuasion, that so great and generous a people as that of France, which has condemned this guilty commerce in the strongest terms, will be less earnest than ourselves to wipe away so foul a blot on the character of a Christian people:—That we are, if possible, still less willing to admit such a supposition in the instance of the United States, a people derived originally from the same common stock with ourselves, and favoured like ourselves, in a degree hitherto, perhaps, unequalled in the history of the world, with the enjoyment of religious and civil liberty, and all their attendant blessings:—That the consciousness that the government of this country was originally instrumental in leading the Americans into this criminal course, must naturally prompt us to call on them the more importunately to join us in endeavouring to put an entire end to the evils of which it is productive:—That we also conceive that the establishment of some concert and co-operation in the measures to be taken by the different powers for the execution of their common purpose, may, in various respects, be of great practical utility; and that, under the impression of this persuasion, several of the European states have already entered into conventional arrangements for seizing vessels engaged in the criminal traffic, and for bringing to punishment those who shall still be guilty of these nefarious practices:—That we therefore supplicate his royal highness, to renew his beneficent endeavours, more especially with the governments of France and of the United States of America, for the effectual attainment of an object which we all profess equally to have in view; and we cannot but indulge the confident hope, that these efforts may yet, ere long, produce their desired effect, may ensure the practical enforcement of principles universally acknow-
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ledged to be undeniably just and true; and may obtain for the long-afflicted people of Africa the actual termination of their wrongs and miseries, and may destroy for ever that fatal barrier, which, by obstructing the ordinary course of civilization and social improvement, has so long kept a large portion of the globe in darkness and barbarism, and rendered its connexion with the civilized and christtian nations of the earth a fruitful source only of wretchedness and desolation."
Sir J. Mackintoshsaid, that the motions needed no recommendation, and had it needed any, it could have had none more powerful and appropriate than the speech of his hon. friend. As to the conduct of Portugal on this question, it was impossible to speak at once with truth and decorum. She chose to hold herself in solitude in the civilized world, and alone in Europe, after concurring with others in the sentence of condemnation on the slave trade, continued to carry on indefinitely this detestable traffic. With respect to the United States of America, he had a perfect confidence that they were sincere in their declarations. It was within twelve months that England and the United States both passed their abolition laws, and history would not fail to record that two nations of English race, separated by the calamity of civil war, had, to the honour of their common blood and common liberty in one year, without previous agreement, performed this act of reparation to the principles of justice and humanity. It was more to the credit of the Americans that this had been done, considering they had slave holders in their legislature; but how much more would it redound to the credit of the Independent States of South America, where the slave holders also had supreme power, that in spite of their prejudices and their supposed interest, their first acts had been to abolish the slave trade. As to France, he was afraid that the colony of St. Louis was nothing but a factory of slave traders. Whether this conduct received any countenance at home he knew not, but he was convinced that a proper application to the French government, or even a knowledge of the fact in France, would go far towards the removal of this disgrace from the French name. Every friend of the human race must wish for the stability of the present government in France. The spirit, combined with order in their legislative pro-

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ceedings, allowed them to indulge a hope that the calamities of Europe would be overpaid by the establishment of a reasonable liberty, which would secure Europe against despotism and convulsions. He hoped the honest representatives of France would raise their voice against this blot on the French character.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that no incitement was wanting to induce his majesty's government to use their utmost efforts for the abolition of the slave trade, though he was far from objecting to the motion as an expression of the sense of the House. Though he was unwilling to repress any expression of feeling, it would not be just to Portugal not to state that the time during which she had stipulated for the continuance of the slave trade (eight years), had not elapsed; so that she could not yet be accused of a direct breach of promise, nor had she finally refused to abolish the slave trade. During the period of eight years, she could not be accused of injustice. The declaration of the powers at Aix-la-Chapelle had been sent to the court of Brazil, but no answer had yet been received. He was convinced the French government was anxious for the execution of its own laws, as they had sent out considerable squadrons to the coast of Africa for that purpose. He assured the House, that nothing could exceed the earnest wishes of the Prince Regent for the accomplishment of the objects of the Address.
The Address was agreed to nem. con.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS BILL.
Lord Auckland, in consequence of its being impossible, at that late period of the session, to come to any agreement respecting the provisions in the Insolvent Debtor's Bill, moved to postpone it for three months, stating that he should give his support to the bill which it was understood would be sent up from the other House, for continuing, for a limited time, the old Insolvent act.
After a few words from lord Redesdale and the lord chancellor, the motion was agreed to.