Sitting of 4 March 1818

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of Supply to which the Miscellaneous Estimates were referred. On the resolution, "That 60,000 l. be granted towards defraying the expense of the building of a Penitentiary House at Millbank, for the year 1818,"
Mr. Gordonsaid, that the House ought to be made acquainted with the way in which the sums before granted for the building of this establishment had been spent. It had been found necessary to take down some of the towers, they had been so badly constructed. The sum now required was for rebuilding.
Mr. Lockhartsaid, no less than 71,000 l. above the sum at which the expense of this prison was originally estimated, had already been voted; and as a prison it had totally failed to produce the effect which the House had in view, namely, to deter from the commission of crime. It might indeed have produced, what, compared with the other, was a secondary object, the amendment of the criminal. But that was of small importance, compared with the deterring from the commission of crime. It might be Christian-like to endeavour to better these people, and to
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send them into the world in a more comfortable condition than they were in before. The world, however, could dispense with them; for he believed the chasm in society, occasioned by the removal of culprits, could always be soon filled up. Notwithstanding the sums expended by the country in prisons and establishments of various descriptions, they found that crimes were perpetually increasing. There were other means to which they ought to turn their attention. A vigilant police ought to be established. The metropolis ought to be divided into districts, and a stricter watch set over those individuals who were habituated to crimes, and who were known not to obtain their living by honest means. If one quarter of the sum which they were devoting to this useless expense were expended on a watchful police, the commission of crime would soon receive an effective check, and they would not witness those disgraceful crimes which the metropolis had of late exhibited. He hoped the House would soon turn their attention to this subject. He did not think that a diminution of punishment could have the effect of preventing crime. A permanent and extensive effect could only be produced by a vigorous police. It was said that our prisons were nurseries of crime; that the. comparatively innocent, from associating with hardened criminals, returned to society much worse members than when they entered the prisons. Why, he would ask, in the prisons of this metropolis, should persons, whose guilt was not established, be kept five or six weeks in the company of hardened criminals? At present, instead of the criminals being punished, society was punished; and society was punished because it was so negligent.
Mr. C. Longsaid, the objections to the Penitentiary at Millbank ought to have been stated at an earlier period. It ought to be recollected that the Penitentiary was adopted by parliament after a great deal of discussion. He was astonished that the hon. gentleman should consider the amendment of the persons in that prison a secondary object. The hon. gentleman had said what was perfectly true, that innocent persons, from mixing with hardened criminals in prisons, came out depraved. Did he mean to say, then, that a system by which the amendment of prisoners was promoted, was not worth the attention of the House? It was true that a tower had been pulled down and rebuilt.

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Those who planned and superintended the building had not the choice of the situation, which was pointed out by act of parliament. A small part of the building had given way, but the cause was known, and from the means which had been adopted, no further apprehension was entertained. All who had visited the building agreed, that it could not possibly be constructed on a plan better calculated to answer the object in view. The system appeared, as far as they had yet had any experience of it, to answer the purpose of those who projected it. This was very much owing to an hon. friend of his (Mr. Holford) who had devoted all his time to this object. Without a constant vigilance and superintendence, the hopes of the House from this prison would be frustrated.
Mr. Lockhartexplained. The right hon. gentleman had very much misunderstood him, if he supposed that he considered the amendment of prisoners a secondary consideration. He had merely said that this was secondary with reference to the greater consideration of preventing crime.
Mr. Arbuthnotappealed to the hon. member for Shrewsbury as to the amelioration in the conduct of the prisoners in the Penitentiary.
Mr. Bennetsaid, he approved, in great part, of the system pursued at Millbank, though he thought it admitted of improvement
Mr. Wynnsaid, that when they considered the great expense which the transportation of offenders occasioned to the country, and how little satisfactory the result had been, particularly in the case of females, they could not fail to view the Penitentiary plan as most beneficial to the country.
The Resolution was then agreed to.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerthen moved, "That 725,681 1. 12 s. 3d. be granted on account of the sum of two millions to be applied by his majesty, in concert with his majesty the king of the Netherlands, towards improving the defences of the Low Countries, by virtue of the Convention concluded on the 13th of August 1814." In proposing this vote, he had the satisfaction of informing the House, that the subject of the vote was not likely to occasion the charges upon the public that had at first been imagined; for the French government, it was a subject of considerable congratulation, had
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made no delay whatever in the payment of the charges which they had to bear.
Mr. Warreobserved, that by the treaty of 1815 there was to be set apart 60 millions of livres out of the 125 millions of livres which was to be paid by France to the Netherlands, for the reparation of the fortresses on the Flemish frontier. The whole expense of the reparation of these fortresses was estimated at 137 millions of livres. He did not know whether these 60 millions had already been expended by the king of the Netherlands in contributing to the repair of the fortresses; and he could wish to receive some information from the noble lord on this subject.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that as a consideration for the colonies ceded by Holland to this country, it was understood that Great Britain was to contribute equally with Holland towards the reparation of the fortresses on the French frontier.' Sixty million livres to be received from France were to be appropriated to the same purpose. The contributions from France were to be applied in the first place towards that expense. He could assure the hon. member that in all cases the sums received from France were appropriated to this object as soon as they came in; but the whole of the 60 millions of livres, had not been so employed, because this sum had not yet all come in.
Mr. Warreobserved, that by an additional article of the treaty we were bound to bear equally with the king of the Netherlands such farther charges incurred in the reparation of the Belgic fortresses as should not make the sum to be paid by Great Britain to exceed in the whole three millions. He should like to know from the noble lord how far we were liable to pay more than two millions towards the repair of the fortresses?
Lord Castlereaghsaid, the whole sum which Great Britain was bound to pay by the treaty, could not exceed two millions.
Mr. Warreasked, if by the treaty we could not be called on to pay three millions in all towards the Belgic fortresses?
The Chancellor of the Exchequerallowed that the treaty was not very clearly worded with respect to this matter; but there was a distinct understanding, that the whole sum which Great Britain should contribute towards the repair of the Belgic fortresses should not exceed two millions; and that the whole charge which could by any possibility be brought against Great

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Britain by the king of the Netherlands should not exceed three millions.
Mr. Tierneywas willing to believe that this was the understanding at signing the treaty, still, however, the treaty itself might be thought to bear a different construction.
The Resolution was then agreed to.

MR. BROUGHAM'S MOTION RESPECTING THE INCOME TAX RETURNS AND PAPERS.
Mr. Broughamsaid, he rose to make a proposition to carry into effect a measure, the propriety of which was admitted, he believed, on all sides of the House; he meant the destruction of all remains of that tax on which they had long ago passed a sentence of condemnation. The principle on which the motion proceeded was so obvious, that he should not offer a word in support of it, but he should shortly state the circumstances which now rendered it necessary. About two years ago the chancellor of the exchequer had stated, that he had given directions for the destruction of the returns under the income tax. Subsequently to that, it was found that these directions had been very imperfectly complied with; that the originals or copies of these returns were bandied about, and sold every where as waste paper, and that in some places a person could hardly go into a shop without seeing the returns of some of his neighbours, or perhaps his own. When this was mentioned, it was said, that steps would be taken to destroy the returns; and about the same time a circular was issued, requiring the officers to destroy the original returns, preserving-copies, which were to be transmitted to the tax-office in London, and there to be preserved. No farther notice had been taken of the subject till within a few days, when he had received information from persons who had seen these returns scattered about, as they had formerly been, in one part of the country. It was evident there was no use in destroying the originals, if copies were left. For though the names were left out, it was manifest that if all the details were preserved, any person in the neighbourhood, not to speak of the assessor, would be able to supply the names. On what ground could it be necessary to preserve these returns at all It was said, that they were necessary to check the returns of the county rate; but for this purpose the sums total, properly authenticated, of parishes or districts,
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would be sufficient. If it was desirable then, that the returns should be destroyed, it would be desirable that the means should be taken to produce a compliance with those orders which had been hitherto ineffectually given. The Treasury, and the Tax-office had at present no means to enforce compliance, if their directions were disobeyed. He should therefore move for a committee to inquire what steps had been taken. To this motion, he believed, no objection would be made. He was more disposed to do this, because he thought he had observed on former occasions a slowness in the Tax-office in attending to the orders of the House. It was a refractory department, though he attached no blame to his hon. and learned friend at the head of it; but there was something in the nature of the department which made them slow. If they might trust the index of the votes on the 3d of February a return had been moved for of the pensions of the late property tax inspectors, which return had not yet been made, though it might have been made in half the time. But ever since the slip the House had made two years ago, by the repeal of the Income tax, the House had been looked upon, by all concerned in the extracting money by taxation, with a jealous eye. He believed in many instances it would be found, that the names at the heads of the returns had only been altered by a stroke or two of the pen, or an attempt at erasure, which left them quite legible to eyes but half as sharp as those employed in the collection of taxes. In some of the instances he had been made acquainted with, a person had sent for goods from a chandler's shop, and with the goods were sent him a return of one of his neighbours income; and, on making inquiry, he was directed to a place where he might find the returns of any person in the neighbourhood. The collector or assessor having failed, his waste paper had been sold,, which consisted of such documents. It was a maxim of law to trust every man in his own art. If the object was to ascertain the utmost sum which could be extracted from the people, or to whip up arrears, he should be willing to trust the tax-gatherers; but when the question was to destroy the relics of a tax which was so dear to them, he distrusted their diligence. This tax had on all occasions received the praises of the chancellor of the exchequer, and he was at liberty now to repeat them; but the opinion of the House and of the country

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was unchanged, or rather, if, out of the people, nine out of ten disapproved it at present, it was condemned by ninety-nine out of every hundred. The hon. and learned gentleman then moved, "That a committee be appointed to inquire into the steps which have been taken to destroy the Returns of Bodies Corporate and Individuals under the Income Tax acts."
The Chancellor of the Exchequerwas doubtful whether any benefit could possibly arise from the appointment of such a committee as that now proposed by the hon. and learned gentleman. With respect to the charge made against the department of the income tax, of repugnance to comply with the orders of the House in the production of such documents as the House found necessary to call for, he believed that that department was not more averse than any other department in showing due compliance to their orders. The papers which the hon. and learned gentleman had alluded to, as an instance to prove the charge of reluctance, were long ago in possession of the House, and this the hon. and learned gentleman might have easily ascertained by inquiring at the vote office. The accounts called for respecting the inspectors of the income tax had been ordered on the 3rd of February, and it appeared they were returned on the 10th of February. With respect to the property tax, it was not his intention then to enter into its general merits. He knew it was burthen some to the country, though highly necessary to carry us through the arduous struggle in which we had then been engaged. In time of peace it was objectionable, and he trusted unnecessary. The object of the hon. and learned gentleman's motion was, that all papers of the description alluded to should be destroyed indiscriminately; but this could not be done, as some of them were absolutely necessary for the recovery of certain arrears of, the property tax. Orders had been already given for the destruction of all such as were not necessary for the recovery of arrears, and the detection of fraud. All returns of commercial property, included in schedule B, were such as, from the circumstances of such property, ought certainly to be destroyed, excepting such as were necessary for the recovery of arrears. It was judged necessary to preserve copies of some of these returns, because two different acts, passed in the year 1815, referred to these papers for the purpose of
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settling county-rates and assessments. He hoped, therefore, that the House, upon taking these circumstances into their consideration, would see no necessity for the appointment of a committee.
Mr. Grenfellsaid, he completely concurred in opinion with his hon. and learned friend, as to the refractoriness evinced by the different offices connected with the department of taxes in complying with the orders of the House, but he could not agree with him in excepting the gentleman at the head of that department. He knew, however, that no blame could attach to the secretary of that department, whose conduct was in every respect highly creditable. He felt the greatest satisfaction in having to congratulate that House and the country on the admission then made for the first time, that the country was not again to be inflicted with the property tax. It was certainly a fair subject of congratulation to hear, that, though the right hon. gentleman considered the tax as right and proper in time of war, yet he would never recommend it in time of peace. This declaration was the more cheering, as a fear had been prevalent that a recurrence to this oppressive tax was still contemplated.
Mr. C. Calverttook occasion to express a hope, that some measures would be taken to guard against the vexation to which several persons had been recently subjected under the system for collecting the assessed taxes. This vexation was, he knew, peculiarly felt in his own neighbourhood. For after the people had had their proportion of the tax fixed upon the rack rent, by a regular and respectable surveyor, an assessor appeared, who, without any previous survey, ordered an advance of the tax equal to 50, and even 100 per cent upon some premises. Such, indeed, was the grievous exaction demanded from the inhabitants of Isleworth, Twickenham, and Hampton.
Mr. Broughamexpressed his surprise at the language and conduct of the chancellor of the exchequer, who, after some little explanation not at all material to the question, declared his intention to vote against the motion. But what was this motion to which the right hon. gentleman professed so much objection? Why, simply for the appointment of a committee to inquire what returns or papers connected with the property tax had been destroyed, or could be destroyed without any injury to the public service. The

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right hon. gentleman had, on a former occasion, stated, that an order had been issued from the proper office for the detraction of such papers; and was it not rather calculated to excite suspicion as to the execution of this order, to find the present motion so resolutely resisted? But there were some circumstances connected with this motion which he felt it his duty to explain to the House as they appeared to manifest much less candour than he was generally disposed to ascribe to the right hon. gentleman. The secretary of the Treasury had applied to him, in the early part of the evening, to know what motion he meant to bring forward. To this application he made a prompt and frank reply, by giving the right hon. secretary a copy of his intended motion, which copy, or a paper very much resembling it, he saw immediately afterwards put into the hands of the chancellor of the exchequer, and the secretary of the Treasury returned to him with this information, that the chancellor of the exchequer had no objection to his motion; adding, that the only difference was as to the nomination of the proposed committee. He had, therefore, concluded, that there would be no objection to the motion for the appointment of the committee to-day, provided he postponed the consideration of the names which were to compose that committee until to-morrow. Such being his conclusion, he communicated to several friends who were likely to speak upon the subject, that the business would terminate in five minutes, no division or discussion being expected. These gentlemen had accordingly left the House, and having thus brought them into a scrape through his reliance upon the chancellor of the exchequer, as that right hon. gentleman's inclination was reported to him, he had no refuge but in proposing the postponement of the discussion.
Mr. Lambtonexpressed a hope that the chancellor of the exchequer would give some explanation as to the circumstances alluded to by his hon. and learned friend, for he could say, that his understanding with respect to the result of the negotiation was the same as that of his hon. and learned friend.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that he had no objection to the postponement of the discussion, for the accommodation of the hon. and learned gentleman and his friends. An application was no doubt made to the hon. and learned gen-
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tleman for a copy of his motion, and such application was in conformity with the practice usually resorted to for the occasional accommodation of each side of the House. He had thus obtained a copy of the hon. and learned gentleman's motion, but, understanding that the hon. and learned gentleman insisted upon proposing himself the nomination of the committee, to which he could not assent, the treaty was broken off.
Mr. Broughamassured the House, that he had treated with the ambassador of the right hon. gentleman in perfect good faith, and that he was led to think there was no objection to his motion for the appointment of the committee; but it now appeared from the language of the chancellor of the exchequer, that if he himself were allowed to name the committee, he should not oppose the motion.
Mr. Lambtonsaid, that according to his understanding the chancellor of the exchequer had expressed no objection to his hon. and learned friend's motion until he found, from seeing the names of the committee which his hon. and learned friend proposed, that the majority were not very likely to support his views.
The farther debate upon this subject was postponed until Tuesday next.

MOTIONS RESPECTING THE RESUMPTION OF CASH PAYMENTS BY THE BANK OF ENGLAND.
Lord A. Hamiltonrose, to bring forward his promised motion upon the subject of the Bank. At a time when it was evidently intended to continue still farther the restriction of Cash Payments by the Bank, it was, in his opinion, the duty of the House to look to the conduct of that establishment with peculiar care, as well as to the proceedings of the minister, who was so intimately connected with it. With a view to understand the conduct of the Bank, he felt it necessary to move for copies of the notices issued by it for the payment of certain of its notes in cash within the last year. A pretty general impression prevailed, that those notices were issued merely for the purpose of delusion, and to induce a belief that the Bank was in possession of the means, and was in the progress of preparing to resume its payments in cash. It was, therefore, due to the character of the Bank, as well as to the satisfaction of the country, to explain the motive and end of those notices. It was now clear that

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there was no intention of resuming cash payments. A plea was advanced for postponing that desirable measure, arising out of certain negotiations for foreign loans; but this he believed to be a mere pretence. It was known that there was a great deal of cash afloat in this country about two years ago; but now, comparatively, little was to be found in circulation, notwithstanding the boasted issue of cash from the Bank. This issue was, however, he apprehended, but very trifling; and that the country had not much reason to rely upon the professions or promises of either the directors of the Bank or the chancellor of the exchequer, as to the probability of the removal of the restriction upon cash payments. But it was for the Bank to show whether any, and what beneficial effect had arisen from the steps it was reported to have taken to prepare for the resumption of its payments in cash. This was the object of his motion, and that motion could not be resisted on any such grounds as were advanced by the chancellor of the exchequer towards the close of the last session. At all events, it could not be constantly resisted, unless it were shown that some injury would result to the Bank from its adoption. The noble lord con-eluded with moving, "That there be laid before this House, a Copy of any Notice given by the Directors of the Bank to the Public in the year 1817, respecting any payment of their notes in specie; together with an Account of the Amount of Specie which in consequence of such notice the company of the Bank became liable to pay, and the amount actually paid, to the latest period the same can be made out."
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that the noble lord might anticipate his objections to this motion, if he recollected the grounds upon which he resisted a similar motion last year. These grounds were, that nothing would be so unadvisable on the part of that House, as to interfere with the conduct of the Bank in a case of this nature; that such interference was of all things most likely to derange the proceedings of that body, and to impede those preparations so essentially necessary for that final resumption of cash payments, which it was the wish of that House and of the country to witness. Yet the noble lord would deem it safe and convenient to bring those preparations under the view of that House; and
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for what purpose he could not divine. The best plan to pursue, was to allow the Bank to proceed silently and cautiously in the progress of its preparations. That it had taken up a vast number of notes and issued cash to a considerable amount in consequence of the notices referred to by the noble lord, was a fact which he presumed no one would venture to deny. It was also indisputable that those notices were issued with a view of paving the way for the complete resumption of cash payments. Into the circumstances which lad since occurred, or which were likely to occur, to postpone that resumption, he was not then disposed to enter; but he would maintain, that the Bank had in the notices alluded to by the noble lord, given a pledge of its sincerity, and preparation to resume cash payments. The Bank, then, was entitled to confidence for the rectitude of its conduct, and its disposition to comply with the wishes of parliament and the public, as soon as it should be deemed advisable to remove the restriction. Therefore he could not sanction any measure which implied doubt as to this institution, and he felt it his duty to oppose the noble lord's motion.
Mr. Grenfellobserved, that this motion was more interesting to the cause of the Bank than to that of the public; and therefore he was surprised to find that no director rose to speak upon it, especially as he had lately seen no less than four directors in the House. But he remarked that the chancellor of the exchequer was always ready to step forward as the champion of the Bank, without the aid of a single speech from any of the directors of that institution; of the votes of all of whom, however, he was of course fully assured, especially upon any question connected with their own interest. The right hon. gentleman had indeed those votes whenever he (Mr. G.) brought forward any motion with respect to the Bank. But the right hon. gentleman was not ungrateful, for when he (Mr. G.) objected to the allowance of half a million per annum to the Bank for performing the office of bankers for the public, and also to the grant of 300,000 l. for managing the payment of the interest upon our public debt—when he protested against such improvident, such inordinate grants, the chancellor of the exchequer always stood forward as one of the contracting parties, urging that whatever the members of that House, or the people of the

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country, thought of these grants, the Bank rendered such services to the public as formed an ample compensation; but what these services were was never accurately defined. As to the motion of his noble friend, the chancellor of the exchequer's objections were the same, he perceived, as those which he had advanced to a similar motion in July last. The case of the country, as well as of the Bank, was, however, rather different at the present time. The chancellor of the exchequer observed in July, that to accede to his noble friend's motion would only serve to gratify an idle curiosity, as the Bank had virtually resumed its payments in cash. But this was a statement which the right hon. gentleman would hardly venture to make on the present occasion. The motion of his noble friend, against which the right hon. gentleman had advanced neither fact nor argument, was such, in his opinion, as the House ought to adopt, especially with a view to obtain such information as was peculiarly necessary to guide its judgment upon the discussion of the bill, which was soon to be expected for the farther continuance of the restriction upon the payment of cash by the Bank.
The House divided: Ayes, 11; Noes, 34.
Mr. Tierneysaid, that he rose for the purpose of moving for the production of certain papers connected with the issues of the Bank of England, to which he understood no objection was intended. His motion went to the farther continuation of the weekly accounts of issues of the Bank, from the 3d of February, to the 3d of the present month. It was not his wish to enter into many observations at present, willing rather to take the subject into consideration as a whole question, than in detached parts. It was, however, necessary to advert to some circumstances, in order to put the House in possession of what his object was in moving for the production of the accounts of the weekly issues, and of the course, which, dependent on the information these accounts gave, it might become his duty to take, respecting the engagements of the Bank with the country, as to its resumption of cash payments. And, in the first place, he begged to deny that he had ever expressed any doubt as to the fact of the Bank having accumulated a large amount of specie, greater, he believed, than at any former period in the history of their concerns, in
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their vaults. But what availed that accumulation with reference to the return of payments in cash, if there was such a progressive increase in the amount of the outstanding notes, as tended to counteract the specie accumulated? He was most anxious in these inquiries to deal very amicably with the bank directors. Many of them he knew were truly solicitous to fulfil their engagements with the public, and amongst those he knew that the very worthy gentleman (Mr. Harman) who filled the chair, stood pre-eminently forward. It was indeed, to be expected of him, who was a thorough bred English merchant, and who therefore knew the value of a wholesome state of the circulation to the commercial world. The papers presented had thrown so much light, or rather he would say darkness, on the subject, that he could not well see his way. At the end of the last session, the chancellor of the exchequer had declared, that there was no doubt of the resumption of cash payments by the Bank, at the expiration of the time specified by law. He had since gone farther by stating that the Bank had virtually commenced such payments. Now all must agree, that whenever that resumption should take place, it must be attended with a considerable diminution of their issues. He was fully aware that such an inconvenience, as inconvenience it must be, was a subject with many of great and natural alarm. And therefore he was anxious on that point not to be misunderstood as at all wishing, in the event of the Bank paying its notes in cash on the 5th July next, that even a measure so desirable on many grounds, should be brought about by any sudden stoppage of its issues. His desire was to see the Bank gradually withdraw its outstanding notes. The House must see that the inconvenience will be felt, more or less, according to the preparation of the Bank to narrow its issues. Now, what inference did the conduct of the Bank, since the last meeting of parliament, afford on this head? The session had scarcely terminated, when the Bank changed its previous course, and issued a very large amount of notes. There were on the table of the House the amounts of issues for the eighteen months, from July 1816, to December 1817; and from these it appeared, that the issues in the first six months of that period amounted to 26,300,000 l.; in the second to 27,400,000 l.; and in the last, that was

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to December 1817, to 29,000,256 l. Thus it was evident, that if the Bank, in place of preparing for the resumption of their payments in cash, at the time specified by law, had determined to multiply impediments to such a result, they could not have more dexterously managed to effect the latter object than by the conduct they were pursuing. What course, he would ask, was more calculated to augment all the inconveniences which would naturally attend the resumption? Was it meant to create such a state of circumstances by the excess of issues, as would have the effect of frightening the country from the return to cash payments, by the apprehension of the convulsion which such an amount of circulation would produce? It was unintelligible to him how these large issues arose; for the House must recollect, that the accommodation to the government formed no part of it. Would the chancellor of the exchequer say, that if the Bank had abstained from these issues, he would have been enabled to make those flattering statements of our financial interests in which he sometimes indulged? Could he have disposed of his exchequer bills? The advances of the Bank to the government, he took at 10,000,000 l., that left 19,000,000 l. unaccounted for. The average of the discounts he calculated at 2,000,000 l. at the most. Under these circumstances, without acting hostilely to the Bank, did it not become every man who looked to a wholesome state of the circulation, to watch its proceedings narrowly, in order to ascertain what were the preparations making to enable it to fulfil its engagements with the public? If these preparations tended to multiply difficulties rather than to facilitate the return to payments in cash, then he must say, there was a juggle going on, disgraceful to the Bank, and discreditable to the government. In that case the Bank had turned its back upon its duty, either to amass property for itself, or to show its subserviency to the treasury. He would give them a month longer. If in the accounts he now moved for, and in those for which in April he intended to move, he should sec progressive reduction, then he would feel that the Bank were in earnest in their preparations. Should a contrary appearance present itself, it would become his duty to take the consideration of the House on resolutions which he should submit for that purpose. His sole object was, to restore the circulation
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to a healthy state. That was also the bounden duty of the Bank towards the public; and it was of importance that they should conduct their concerns to that end. He could not see, now that we were at peace, and no panic whatsoever existing, what, in the event of the restriction being taken off, should induce men to exchange their Bank paper for gold. But at all events no one could deny, that whilst the present fluctuating state of circulation continued, the private property of every man in the kingdom was placed in jeopardy, and that some great calamity must, sooner or later, be the inevitable result. It was impossible but that an inconvertible paper currency without limit, must end in ruin. It might be the case that some of the directors of the Bank would explain the motives for these increased issues of their paper. Should they afford no such explanation, but shelter themselves under the majorities of the chancellor of the exchequer, he, for one, and he believed the whole kingdom, would entertain suspicions of such conduct. The right hon. gentleman concluded with moving for "The total weekly amount of Bank Notes and Bank Post Bills in circulation from the 3d of February to the 3d of March 1818; distinguishing the Bank post bills, the amount of notes under the value of 5l., and stating the aggregate amount of the whole."
The Chancellor of the Exchequerdid not intend to oppose the production of this account, nor did he think the present a fit period for entering into a consideration of the general question. He should only say, therefore, that he agreed for the most part with the principle maintained by the right hon. gentleman, that the reduction of the issues of the Bank was a necessary means and preparation for enabling them to resume their cash payments. He had some limitations, however, to suggest to the broad proposition that it was the only means, which limitations had been very clearly explained in the work of a deceased friend both of his and of the right hon. gentleman; he meant the late Mr. Henry Thornton.
Mr. Manningwas surprised, after the right hon. gentleman's profession of a friendly disposition to the Bank, that he should act with such hostility as to summon it to an unconditional surrender at the expiration of a month. He must say, that he could not accept his friendship on such terms, nor could he be induced by

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any menace to sacrifice the interests of the Bank, and, as he believed, the interests of the country. He denied that the Bank had ever sought to shelter itself behind the majorities of the chancellor of the exchequer. The directors were prepared to justify every part of their proceedings. The right hon. gentleman had accused the Bank of enlarging their issues immediately after the last session of parliament, as if the operation of the funds, and the payment of the public dividends in July last, did not sufficiently account for the increased quantity of paper in circulation at that period. He could not at that moment, not having expected to hear the right hon. gentleman's statement, mention the other circumstances which might have contributed to an extension of their issues; but he disclaimed on the part of the Bank, any wish to extend them at that particular time. He had no intention to oppose the motion, and had never, when filling the chair of the Direction, been averse to afford the House all the information which, in its vigilance or jealousy, it might require.
Mr. Grenfellremarked, that the increased issues alluded to by his right hon. friend had taken place, not at one period, but had continued during the whole half-year ending in December of last year. The average circulation for that period exceeded, by a sum of between two and three millions, the average circulation of the corresponding six months of the year preceding. He would go farther, and assert, that the amount of circulating paper issued by the Bank of' England for the last six months, was greater than at any former period of equal duration since the year 1797. He wished the House to understand that the extent to which gambling in the funds was carried on at the present moment was without precedent. He did not say, that the right hon. gentleman was desirous of producing such an effect: but the system on which he acted had an inevitable tendency to create and encourage the evil. It had, in fact, caused a greater degree of fluctuation in the value of the funds than had ever before been known; and it might be traced in some measure to the uncertainty that existed on the subject of renewing the restriction act. He entreated the right hon. gentleman to put an end to this uncertainty by openly declaring his intentions, or if the event depended on a contingency, to state what that contin-
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gency was. It was due in justice to the public, that those who stood nearest to the right hon. gentleman should not, by becoming first acquainted with the secret, possess themselves of very considerable advantages. The right hon. gentleman was a moral man, and he was sure was not aware of the effects of the present vacillation of the funds, or of the number of those who daily became its victims. The same uncertainty prevailed with respect to the right hon. gentleman's plan of finance for the year, and whether it was in his contemplation to fund exchequer-bills. He could not conceive any adequate reasons for all this concealment; and he again entreated the right hon. gentleman to give the public some information on the subject.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerfelt himself called upon to say a very few words, after what had fallen from the hon. gentleman. He challenged the hon. gentleman to show, that any thing he had ever uttered with relation to the finances of the country, had led to the encouragement of gambling in the funds. He likewise denied that any persons had received or would receive private information from him of what financial arrangements he proposed to submit to parliament for the service of the year; and he treated the insinuation, therefore, with the contempt which it deserved. He did not think it consistent with his public duty to make the disclosures suggested by the hon. gentleman, and he should leave it to the House to judge, whether he was not more likely to promote gambling by any premature or partial declarations than by preserving a perfect silence on the subject.
Mr. Tierneyobserved, that as to the charge brought against him by an hon. director, of hostility to the Bank, it was not only himself, but every man in the country, who would be convinced, if no preparation, by withdrawing and reducing its, issues, should be made in April next for resuming its cash payments, that the blame lay with the Bank, and not with the chancellor of the exchequer. The persuasion of the public, he was sure, would then be that the Bank, notwithstanding all its professions, was taking pains to prevent the performance of their engagements at the time limited by law. The country was entitled to look to the Bank for the protection of its currency: it was the condition of their charter, and the

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tenure by which they enjoyed all their advantages. If he should, therefore, observe, that they failed in making those timely and gradual preparations which alone could enable them to restore the circulation to a sound state, his only course would be to draw the attention of the House and the public to their conduct. He should then contend that the Bank had forfeited their claim to any further confidence. The hon. director smiled, and he was glad to see him restored to his good humour; but he must repeat, that the Bank were, on this question bound to act separately and independently of the chancellor of the exchequer. If the Bank neglected to take those precautionary measures which must precede their return to cash-payments, happen when it might, the responsibility would belong to them, and not to the government. With regard to foreign loans negotiated in this country, it could not be pretended that they would be facilitated by the resumption of cash-payments. The House certainly did not know how far the right hon. gentleman might wish to see our allies accommodated; but however that might be, -with this the Bank had nothing to do. They had a plain, simple course to pursue. He could not help thinking that the hon. director, who had twice passed the chair, must, with his experience, be able to state the cause of the increased issues subsequent to the last session of parliament. As he would not, however, give any reason, he (Mr. Tierney) must find one for himself. He entertained much private friendship for the hon. director, but he could not forego his public duty; and if he should find in April next that the Bank were still proceeding in their present career, he should move certain resolutions declaratory of the opinion of parliament, for the purpose of giving that security to the property of the country which he conceived it would, under such circumstances, require.
Mr. Grenfellcomplained of the warm manner in which the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer had expressed himself. Nothing was farther from his intention than to impute to that right hon. gentleman any improper or corrupt motive in his financial views. He believed him to be the last man capable of so acting; and nothing that ever fell from him should have been received as casting any thing like this imputation. He merely deprecated silence on a subject like the
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present, where the arrangements must be formed, and perhaps ready to be acted upon,
General Thorntonhoped the Bank would take proper means to make their notes so as to render forgeries of greater difficulty than they now were.
The motion was then agreed to.