Sitting of 13 April 1818

EDUCATION OF THE POOR BILL.
Mr. Brougham,in moving the second reading of the bill appointing commissioners to inquire into the application of
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Charitable Funds for the purposes of Education in England and Wales, wished to explain the course which he deemed it advisable to be pursued in this business. It had been his intention to propose that the inquiry of the commissioners should extend to all charities whatever; but he was now of opinion, that it would be most advisable to confine for the present the inquiries of the commissioners to charities for purposes of education, with an understanding that additional powers would be given next session to extend the inquiry to all other charities. There would be ample employment for the commissioners for a considerable time in the metropolis, and twenty or thirty miles in its neighbourhood, and this would give time for finding out the sort of persons who could most efficaciously execute the provisions of the act. When, therefore, It would be necessary to appoint additional commissioners next session, it would be more easy to find proper persons for that purpose. Another purpose would be gained by the delay—it would serve as a warning to those great bodies by whom charitable funds were at present abused. From what had happened already, he was confident this time would not be lost.
The bill was then read a second time.

ROYAL BURGHS OF SCOTLAND—PETITION FROM WHITHORN.
Sir Samuel Romillysaid, he held in his hands a petition, signed by 120 persons, who described themselves as Burgesses of the Royal Burgh of Whithorn in Scotland. This petition, it was stated, contained a very accurate picture of most of the Royal Burghs in Scotland. From the magistrates and town council, who chose the delegates, by whom the representatives were returned, not being elected by the burgesses, but by one another, it was a perfect mockery to say, that the elective franchise was enjoyed by the burgesses. The petitioners stated, that although by the charter of the Burgh, the magistrates and town council ought to be elected out of the inhabitants of the Burgh, yet it so happened, that at present five only out of the eighteen of their magistrates and council were inhabitants. The petitioners stated, that they were not desirous of any innovations, but they complained of the abuses which had crept into the Burgh system; and they appealed to a peculiar statute, in the teeth of which

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these abuses had taken place. They stated, that they had heard with surprise, that the burgesses would be satisfied with the constitution of the Burgh, if the magistrates were subjected to an audit. They would only be satisfied with a real representation, instead of a nominal one, as at present, there being now no popular election; but the magistrates and town council, who were not chosen by the people, and among whom was a nobleman, and
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several gentlemen in the neighbourhood, nominating certain delegates, who, along with the delegates from certain other Burghs, nominated a representative to parliament. They contended, that it was a breach of the privileges of the House of Commons for a lord of parliament or lords-lieutenant of counties to interfere with elections.
The petition was ordered to lie on the table and to be printed.

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING ROYAL MARRIAGES.
The Earl of Liverpoolpresented the following Message from the Prince Regent:
"GEORGE, P. R.
"The Prince Regent, acting in the name and on the behalf of his Majesty, thinks it right to inform the House of Lords, that Treaties of Marriage are in negotiation between his royal highness the Duke of Clarence and the Princess of Saxe Meningen, eldest daughter of the late reigning duke of Saxe Meningen; and also between his royal highness the Duke of Cambridge and the Princess of Hesse, youngest daughter of the Landgrave Frederick, and niece of the Elector of Hesse.
"After the afflicting calamity which the Prince Regent and the nation have sustained in the loss of his Royal High-ness's beloved and only child, the Princess Charlotte, his Royal Highness is fully persuaded that the House of Commons will feel how essential it is to the best interests of the country that his Royal Highness should be enabled to make a suitable provision for such of his Royal Highness's brothers as shall have contracted marriage with the consent of the Crown: and his Royal Highness has received so many proofs of the affectionate attachment of this House to his majesty's person and family, as leave him no room to doubt of the concurrence and assistance of this House in enabling him to make the necessary arrangements for this important purpose.
G. P. R."
The Message was ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow.

FEES OF COURTS OF JUSTICE.
The Marquis of Lansdowneadverted to the conversation which had taken place on Friday last. The reports to which he then referred, had stated some irregularities in the court of Common Pleas, in Ireland, with respect to the loss of certain recoveries. He had, however, since had a communication with a person who held the place of prothonotary of that court, who had assured him, that no loss or inconvenience had occurred with respect to any recoveries. In consequence of what had already passed on the subject, he thought it proper that their lordships should be informed of this circumstance. While he was on his legs, he should move for an account of the fees taken in cases of pardons granted by the Crown. He was glad to learn, that a bill on that subject was in progress in the other House of parliament, and he hoped it would soon come before their lordships. It was

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a serious consideration, that by far the greater number of the persons who received pardons under the great seal were unable to avail themselves of the advantage to which they were entitled by the mercy extended to them by the Crown, in consequence of not being able to pay the fees. But it was not the mere fees which constituted the burthen of the charge. A great part of the expense was occasioned by the stamp duties. It appeared that a pardon could not be sent out without incurring an expense of more than 40 l. This was certainly a great hardship, especially when it was considered that the persons to whom the mercy of the Crown was extended were often in great distress. It was with reference to the bill which he had stated to be in progress, that he had resolved to move for some papers which appeared to him necessary to enable their lordships to understand the subject when it should come before them. He concluded by moving, that there be laid before the House an account of the fees paid on suing out a pardon granted under the great seal.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, he had no objection to the motion, but wished the words, "distinguishing the parts of the fees payable to different persons," to be added thereto.
The Marquis of Lansdowneconsented to this addition, and the motion was agreed to; as was also a subsequent motion of his lordship, for an Account of the Number of Pardons sued out during the last ten years.
Lord Hollandadverted to the heavy expense incurred in several cases where the parties indicted pleaded Not Guilty. The expense incurred was, indeed, so considerable, that professional men were actually in the habit of advising some of their clients to plead guilty to indictments charging them with offences of which they were certainly innocent, rather than incur the heavy expense arising from a plea of Not Guilty. He expressed a hope that some noble lord would take up this subject, with a view of remedying the evil.