Sitting of 1 July 1817

PETITION OF MR. EVANS.
Mr. Bennetasked the right hon. gentleman, whom he saw in his place, whether he was now prepared to give any answer as to the petition he had presented from Mr. Evans?
Mr. Addington, as it seemed to be the wish of the House, to hear an explanation of the complaints in Mr. Evans's petition, acknowledged that he was now prepared to give a much more satisfactory answer than he could have given on the day that the petition was presented. It had been then argued, that all in the petition must be true; and even an hon. gentleman had gone so far as to say, that he would submit a motion on the subject if a satisfactory explanation should not be given. He might consider himself absolved by the notice of such a motion, from giving any explanation till the motion was made; but he was now willing to explain all the complaints in the petition. He had stated his utter incredulity as to the charges in the petition; he had expressed himself sure that most of the facts were not true, and confident that many of them were quite unfounded. First of all, as to the petition said to have been withheld, he had felt confident that his noble relation, the secretary of state, was not capable of so great an abuse as deliberately keeping a petition from any subject from reaching the walls of that House. He had been quite sure that his noble relation had not withheld it; first, because he knew his feelings were such as would never endure such an act; secondly, because a similar petition from a Mr. Knight, in Reading gaol, had been forwarded; and thirdly, because the solicitor for Mr. Evans was instantly, on his requesting it, granted leave to see him, and to prepare a petition

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similar to the one now presented. But what was the fact as to this serious charge? Mr. Evans sent a petition on the 21st of February to the secretary of state's office, by the hands of Mr. Abbot for a noble lord, whom he did not now see in his place (lord Cochrane); but next morning he sent to request that it should be given to Mr. Harmer, his solicitor. Mr. Harmer got it accordingly, and since then no word was heard of it in the office: but last Saturday, looking over the votes, he found that it had been presented to that House on the 27th of February, and by the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Bennet). The hon. gentleman must pardon him for expressing considerable surprise that he had sat in his seat all the time this charge had been so strongly urged without once contradicting it.—So much for the petition, which had not remained twenty hours in the secretary of state's office. He would now proceed to the other charges. Mr. Abbot (for he had examined him on the subject—he had first gone to the gaoler of Coldbath-fields, and then to the gaoler of Horsemonger-lane) assured him, that he had never refused Mr. Evans the use of pen, ink, and paper. It was always the practice in that gaol to cast prisoners into irons. Mr. Abbot had been there for five years, and it had been the practice before his time. The day after Mr. Evans had been thrown into irons, three gentlemen asked to see him; and one of them asked the gaoler whether it was the practice to put prisoners there into irons? Being told that it was the uniform practice, they acquiesced. The next day the irons were taken away.—He next read a description of the room in which he was confined, which had been called the condemned dungeon. It was 25 feet long, 18 feet wide, and 11 feet high. There were two large windows, a fire-place, and a coal-place. There was a view of the Surrey hills from his window. The younger Evans had a room exactly the same, except that, being lower, the view from it was not so extensive. It had been alleged they had not been allowed to walk any where. There was an arcade 55 feet in length, in which they were allowed to walk. He asked the gaoler whether there was not a place where they could conveniently enjoy free air, and he answered, "Certainly not, without being exposed too much for their security." — Another point he would mention wa6 the alleged want of communication with his
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dearest friends. His wife had been allowed to visit him and to converse with him through the iron gate, which was open from top to bottom, so as to admit them to see and converse freely. All the possible modes in which any grievances felt by prisoners could be made known were two. The one was by writing to the secretary of state. This Mr. Watson had done, and had always obtained redress, for which he had written a letter of thanks. The other mode was by sending to inquire at the gaols, which it was impossible to do as to every gaol in the country; and which, if possible, would be a libel upon the individuals who had the management of prisons.
Mr. Bennetsaid, he did present a petition formerly from Mr. Evans, but he had not known on Friday last, and did not know-now, that it was the identical petition with respect to which there was a complaint of its not having been forwarded. As to the other points, the right hon. gentleman had advocated, but had neither denied nor explained them. He knew not whether other prisoners had been treated with the same severity, but he knew that Mr. Evans was put first in Coldbath-fields prison, into the same room and bed with a felon. The younger Evans was put into the hospital-room, with six unhealthy felons. He had gone to visit Evans on Monday last, but was refused permission; he then requested to be allowed, at least, to see the arcade, which was granted. In going up the stairs he would admit that he did steal a look into those dungeons; he did not see Mr. Evans, but he saw Mr. Pilkington, in precisely the same kind of room as Evans. He asked if it was the same, and was answered it was precisely. There he saw this unhappy man, this innocent individual, pacing the room up and down. It was a place for convicts between the time of sentence and that of execution. It was not a place of confinement, but a place of punishment. With the felon's punishment he had also the felon's fare. There was a truckle bed, a pail for water, a table, and a chair. The right hon. gentleman had not said that Evans had any fire. He would appeal to the common principles of humanity, whether Mr. Evans who was author of the pamphlet on the Spencean doctrines, should be excluded from all means of literary gratification. However, ludicrous those doctrines were, it was evident he was a literary person. It

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was, then, no small hardship for such a person to be denied the use of a candle for the long hours that he had to pass in this dungeon. Yet how much harder would it be by-and-by, when the long nights as well as long days must be so passed. It was not denied that Mr. Evans's flute was taken from him. Nine-tenths, then, of the charges were admitted. The only pretence for putting Evans into irons must have been to keep him in safety. Now the prison was more like a fortress than a prison. He did not say that it was absolutely impossible for an adventurous prisoner to attempt to escape, but for Ir. Evans there was not the least chance of his attempting or effecting his escape.
Mr. Barhamexpressed himself dissatisfied with the explanation of the right hon. gentleman, and declared his intention of bringing forward his motion tomorrow.

Mr. GRANT'S FINANCE RESOLUTIONS.
Mr. C. Grant, junr. handed to the Speaker the following Resolutions:

1. "That the total amount of the funded debt, of the United Kingdom, unredeemed, was, on the 1st February 1816

£.810,046,036

And on the 1st February 1817

790,050,980

Being a diminution of

19,995,056

2. "That the total amount of the unfunded debt, in exchequer and Irish treasury bills, was, on the 5th January, 1816

In exchequer bills

41,441,900

In Irish treasury bills

2,497,808

43,939,708

And on 5th January 1817:

Exchequer bills

44,650,300

Treasury bills

5,304,992

49,955,292

Being an increase of

6,015,584

3. "That the sum to be expended by the commissioners for the redemption of the funded debt of Great Britain and Ireland, in the year 1817, may be estimated at

14,464,443

And that provision has been made for paying off navy and transport debt, within the same period, to the amount of

1,660,000

16,124,443

4. "That the amount of exchequer bills outstanding on the 5th January 1817, was

44,650,300

and of Irish treasury bills

5,304,992

49,955,292

That the amount of exchequer bills and of Irish treasury bills, granted in the present or former session, which will be outstanding on the 5th January 1818, should the whole of the supplies of the current year be then issued, will be

In exchequer bills

60,000,000

In Irish treasury bills

4,684,992

64,684,992

Increase of unfunded debt unprovided for (exclusive of any excess of charge upon the consolidated fund of the United Kingdom, beyond the income thereof) of

14,729,700

Being less by the sum of 1,394,743 l. than the sum of 16,124,443 l., which, as before stated, will be applied in the course of the year to the reduction of funded and unfunded debt:—viz.

Sum to be applied to the reduction of debt

16,124,443

Increase of unfunded debt

14,729,700

1,394,743

The first Resolution being read, the debate thereupon was adjourned till Friday.

CLERGY RESIDENCE BILL.
The Archbishop of Canterbury The Archbishop of Canterbury moved the second reading of this bill. His grace said, it was in its principle, and for the most part in its details, the same as the bill relative to this subject which had come before their lordships last session, and which they had ordered to be printed and circulated. The object of it was, to consolidate into one act all the laws which lay scattered in the statute book relative to spiritual persons holding farms, to the residence of beneficed clergymen on their livings, and the allowances to be made to stipendiary curates. The clergy would thus have the means of knowing the laws particularly affecting them.
The bill was then read a second time.

SAVING BANKS BILL.
In a committee on the saving banks bill, lord Redesdale proposed a variety of amendments. A conversation afterwards arose on the difficulties to which the execution of the bill, in its present imperfect state, would be exposed; and the lord chancellor suggested, that the better way would be to move the postponement of the present bill for three months, in order to give an opportunity for introducing a new one. On the House being resumed, the report was accordingly ordered to be received this day three months.