Sitting of 18 May 1815

FUNERAL CERTIFICATES BILL.
Sir Egerton Brydgesmoved for leave to bring in a Bill to revive the use of funeral certificates. He said that funeral certificates contained a record of the time and place of the deaths and burial of the nobility and gentry, and upper classes of society, which were certified by the executors or administrators and some near relation of the deceased, together with their marriages and issue, if any; and were filed and registered in the College of Arms. These had been in regular use from 1568 to 1680; indeed, one existed in the case of sir Thomas Brandon, K. G. as early as 1509. Of all the records which had ever been used as evidence in questions of in heritance as well to property as to titles of honour, these had been found the most

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be official, satisfactory, and perfect. The abolition of inquisitiones post mortem, which ceased with feudal tenures before the Restoration, had been severely felt in proving pedigrees; and the disuse of funeral certificates soon after, left the main proof of these pedigrees to depend on parish registers. Now, every one most be aware of the many defects attaching to this last species of evidence. The inconvenience of resort to them, from their dispersion all over the kingdom, was not small. But it was a still worse defect of these parish registers, that they were from their nature for the most part deficient in that which fixed the identity of persons; an inconvenience of the most serious sort. Under these circumstances he was induced to bring forward the present measure. He trusted that the provisions he was about to propose for effecting it, would be found simple and practicable. The machinery was easy; and nothing of an inquisitorial or objectionable nature was intended. He proposed the returns to be obtained through the surrogates or other ecclesiastical officers, employed to grant probates and letters of administration, at the time those instruments were applied for. Nothing would be required beyond that, which must necessarily in almost all cases come within the knowledge of the executor or administrator. But he would not fatigue the House with the detail of his intended provisions, which would best be seen in the words of the Bill itself, if leave was given to bring it in. He concluded with moving, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to revive the use of funeral certificates, to record the time and place of the deaths and burials of testators and intestates."
Leave was accordingly given.

PROPERTY OF THE POOR EMBEZZLEMENT BILL.
Mr. W. Smithrose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the purpose of rendering general certain provisions which were at present to be found in several local acts, with a view to prevent the embezzlement or waste of any property provided for the poor. The first object of his Bill, the hon. member described to be, to subject to a certain penalty, any persons who should knowingly purchase any of the property alluded to; and the second to prevent trustees or overseers of the poor from selling any articles for the use of the poor, from which they could derive profit. The
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hon. member concluded with moving, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prevent the waste, or embezzlement of certain property provided for the use of the poor, and for other purposes relating to places provided for their reception."—Leave was given.

PRINCE REGENT'S OUTFIT.
Lord Althorpegave notice of his intention to submit a motion to the House on Tuesday next, with respect to the application of the sum of 100,000 l. voted to the Prince Regent for the purpose of an outfit, on his Royal Highness's becoming unrestricted Regent.
Lord Castlereaghstated, that the application of the sum alluded to had been explained by a communication from authority to the House.
Mr. Wynnprofessed himself unable to imagine the nature of the authority referred to by the noble lord. Did the noble lord mean his own statement in the course of a late discussion?
Lord Castlereaghreplied, that the communication to which he referred had been made to the committee appointed to investigate the expenditure of the Civil List, through which committee that communication would naturally come before the House.
Mr. Tierneyasked when this communication was made to the committee, for he had not yet heard of it, although a member of that committee.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that steps had been taken some days ago to present it, and he presumed that it had been made.
Lord Althorpeobserved, that the motion of which he had given notice would not refer to the view which the noble lord appeared to have taken of the subject, but to what he (lord A.) considered the unconstitutional mode of applying the 100,000 l. contrary to the spirit and letter of the acts of parliament under which it was granted.

MOTION RESPECTING RIOTOUS ASSEMBLIES.
General Thorntonrose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend certain parts of the Act commonly called the Riot Act. By that Act, those persons who should not disperse within an hour after the reading of the Act, were to be subject even to the loss of their lives. His object was, not to require so long a period as an hour to elapse, but to provide that upon the reading of the Act, the mob should disperse immediately.

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He therefore wished to propose, that those who did not immediately disperse, upon the reading of the Riot Act, should be subject to punishment by fine and imprisonment; and for the second offence he should propose transportation. He also should wish to propose, that not only constables, but that every person present might be empowered to arrest persons acting in breach of the law. At present, if serious injuries, such as pulling a house down, were incurred by the violence of the mob, indemnity could be obtained under the provisions of the Riot Act. He should propose, that for lesser injuries, such as the breaking of windows, compensation might also be obtained. There was another practice that he felt very anxious to suppress. He thought illuminations were almost always productive of riot and tumult. He, therefore, never wished to see an illumination, and thought that the practice should be stopped. He should, therefore, propose certain penalties on those who illuminated. The hon. general concluded with moving, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill for more effectually preventing tumults and riotous assemblies, and for the more speedy and effectual punishing the rioters."
The Speaker then, as no member rose to speak on it, proceeded to put the question. On his putting the question in the affirmative, we did not hear a single aye: but on his putting the negative, there was a loud cry of No.
Mr. Yorkerrose at the same time, and said, that perhaps it would have been sufficient for him to join his 'no' to the general negative that the motion seemed likely to experience. He was sure that the principles which the hon. general had stated as the reasons for this Bill would not be supported by the House.
The question was again put, and the motion was negatived without a division.

ROMAN CATHOLIC QUESTION.
Sir Henry Parnellrose, pursuant to notice, to submit certain Resolutions to the House with respect to the claims of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. In these Resolutions it was his object to explain the course of proceeding which he proposed to pursue, with a view to satisfy the parties referred to, without meaning to lead the House into any premature discussion. The House, he observed, was now placed in different circumstances from those which existed upon any former discussion
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of this interesting question, inconsequence of the Resolution adopted on the motion of the right hon. member for Liverpool (Mr. Canning). For by that Resolution it was decided, that it was expedient to repeal the penal laws affecting the Catholic body, and therefore the House was not again called upon to vote on the principle of the measure, but to consider the details necessary in order to give effect to that Resolution. He had been informed by the Speaker, that as this question related to religion, it must be considered in a committee of the whole House.
The Speaker.—Such is the standing order.
Then in this instance (resumed Sir H. Parnell) he meant only to bring forward these Resolutions in order to have them laid on the table, as containing the subject matter of what he proposed subsequently to submit to the consideration of the House. In framing these Resolutions, he had been aided by the suggestions of those gentlemen who had waited upon him with the Catholic petition in Dublin, and to whom he naturally said that it would be very desirable to know what were the views of the petitioners—what the exact nature of the claims to which they wished Parliament to accede.
Mr. Yorkerose to order, and asked whether the hon. baronet meant to conclude with any motion, because his observations would otherwise be irregular.
Sir Henry Parnellreplied, that it was not his intention to have concluded with any motion; but in order to conform to order, he now meant to move his first Resolution, after stating the nature of the several Resolutions which he held in his hand, and which contained a precise description of what the Catholics of Ireland required Parliament to do in their behalf. These Resolutions, which he meant on a future day to submit to the consideration of a committee of the whole House, he proposed to have printed; and in making this proposition, he was governed by the precedent established by the House in the case of the right honourable member for Liverpool, whose clauses for the security of the Protestant Establishment, as those clauses were denominated, were ordered to be printed. The hon. baronet then read the following Resolutions:—
1st. "That it is expedient the Roman-Catholic inhabitants of these realms shall not be liable or subject to any laws for the limitation, charging, or discovering of

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their estates, real or personal, or touching the acquiring, enjoying, holding, or disposing of property of any kind or nature, save such as the Protestant inhabitants of these realms are liable and subject to.
2d. "That it shall not be necessary (in order to enable or to entitle any Roman Catholic inhabitant of these realms to vote at any election of a member or members to serve in Parliament, or any other election; or to vote at any election of a representative peer of Scotland; or to been rolled as a freeholder in any shire or stewartry of Scotland; or to vote in any proceeding of the court of freeholders, or to be chosen præses or clerk of such court; or to be chosen a commissioner or delegate for choosing burgesses to serve in Parliament for any district of boroughs in Scotland; or to enable or entitle any peer of Ireland to vote at any election of a representative temporal peer; or to make or sign any return to the writ of election of a temporal peer, pursuant to an Act made for that purpose by the late parliament of Ireland, in the 40th year of the reign of his present Majesty), that any such inhabitant or peer should, at or previous to the time of his so voting or being so enrolled or chosen, or so making or signing a return to any writ of election, respectively as aforesaid, take or subscribe the oaths of allegiance, abjuration, and supremacy—or make or subscribe the declaration against transubstantiation, the sacrifice of the mass, and the invocation of saints.
3rd. "That whereas doubts have been entertained whether the provisions of an Act made by the late Parliament of Great Britain, in the 26th year of the reign of his late Majesty King George the second, intituled 'An Act for the better preventing of Clandestine Marriages,' extend or ought to extend to or affect marriages between Roman Catholics:
"It is expedient that the said Act, and the provisions therein contained, shall be deemed, taken and construed, not to extend or to affect any marriages of Roman Catholics (where both the parties shall be Roman Catholics); but that all such marriages of Roman Catholics, being duly solemnized according to the forms of the Roman Catholic religion, shall be excepted from the operation of the said Act, in like manner as marriages amongst persons professing the Jewish religion, and marriages amongst the people called
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Quakers, are by the said Act excepted from the operation thereof.
4th. "That it shall and may be lawful to and for any person or persons whomsoever, to give, grant, transfer, or convey to any person or persons (and for such, person or persons to take, receive, and hold), any lands, tenements, hereditaments, goods, money, or other property, for the maintenance, support, or benefit of any Roman Catholic chapel, or house of worship, priest, or minister of worship, school, hospital, or other pious or charitable foundation or establishment, of such or the like nature, in the like manner, and to the same extent as his Majesty's Protestant Dissenting subjects are now enabled and authorized by law to make and execute gifts, grants, and conveyances, as aforesaid, for the maintenance, support, or benefit of any Protestant Dissenting chapel, or house of worship, minister of worship, school, hospital, or other pious or charitable foundation or establishment of such or the like nature.
5th. "That, if any person or persons shall maliciously disturb any congregation or meeting of persons assembled in any Roman Catholic chapel, or other place, for the purpose of religious worship, according to the forms of the Roman Catholic religion; or shall maliciously prevent, hinder, or disturb such religious worship; or shall assault or menace any Roman Catholic clergyman, in such chapel or place, whilst officiating, or about to officiate therein; it is expedient that every such person so offending shall forfeit and pay for every such offence, a sum of twenty pounds sterling, British currency.
6th. "That whereas by an Act made by the late Parliament of Ireland, in the sixth year of the reign of her late Majesty Queen Anne, and by another Act made by the said Parliament, in the 23d year of the reign of his late majesty King George the second, any Roman Catholic priest, solemnizing marriage between any two persons (being Protestants, or either of them being a Protestant,) is rendered subject to certain punishments mentioned in the said Acts respectively;
it is expedient, that the said provisions of the said Acts be repealed so far as the same relate to such punishments as aforesaid; and that any Roman Catholic clergyman, who shall hereafter solemnize

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marriage between two Protestants, or between any Protestant or Roman Catholic (such Protestant and Roman Catholic not having been previously married by a Protestant clergyman, and the said Roman Catholic clergyman knowing such party to be a Protestant), shall forfeit a sum of 100 l. to his Majesty for the same, on conviction thereof.
7th. "That if any officer, or person holding any military or naval office, or situation, under his Majesty, his heirs, or successors, shall by punishment, force, menaces, or otherwise, compel, or endeavour to compel any Roman Catholic soldier, sailor or marine, to assist or be present at the celebration of divine worship, according to any other form than the form of the Roman Catholic religion, it is expedient such officer or person, so offending, shall forfeit and pay for every such offence a sum of one hundred pounds sterling of British currency.
8th. "That it shall and may be lawful to and for the Roman Catholic inhabitants of these realms, to sit and vote in either House of Parliament; and to hold, exercise, and enjoy all civil, judicial, and military and naval offices, and places of trust or profit, under his Majesty, his heirs, and successors, within these realms, and the dominions, dependencies, and colonies thereunto belonging, and to take and receive any degrees of medicine, law, or arts, in any of the universities of Great Britain or Ireland, and to be students, exhibitioners, scholars, professors, and lay-fellows for any of the said universities or colleges belonging thereto; and to hold, exercise, and enjoy the offices of mayor, sovereign, bailiff, alderman, treasurer, sheriff town-clerk, councilman, master or warden, of any guild or fraternity; and all such offices (by whatever name the same may be called), in any city or town within these realms; and also the offices of governors, deputy governors, and directors of the banks of England and Ireland respectively, and all other offices therein; and also to be members of any other lay body corporate, and to enjoy the freedom, franchises, and immunities thereof; and to hold, exercise, and enjoy any office or place of trust therein, any statute, charter, bye-law, or usage to the contrary thereof in anywise notwithstanding, upon
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taking and subscribing the oath and declaration following: (instead of the oaths of allegiance, abjuration, and supremacy, and instead of making and subscribing the declaration against transubstantiation, the sacrifice of the mass, and the invocation of saints, now by law required, and instead of taking the sacrament, according to the forms of the Protestant religion); that is to say, upon taking and subscribing the following Oath and Declaration:
"I, A. B. do hereby declare that I profess the Roman Catholic religion.
"I, A. B, do sincerely promise and swear, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to his Majesty King George 3, and him will defend to the utmost of my power, against all conspiracies and attempts whatever that shall be made against his person, crown or dignity: and I will do my utmost to disclose and make known to his Majesty, his heirs and successors, all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which may be formed against him or them.
"And I do promise to maintain, defend, and support, to the utmost of my power, the succession to the crown (which succession by law now stands limited to the princess Sophia, electress and duchess dowager of Hanover, deceased, and the heirs of her body, being Protestants).
"Hereby utterly renouncing and abjuring any obedience or allegiance unto any other person, claiming, or pretending a right to the crown of these realms.
"And I do not believe, that any foreign prince, prelate, state, or potentate, hath or ought to have, any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, superiority, or pre-eminence, within these realms.
" And I do declare, that I swear this oath, and every part thereof, in the plain and ordinary sense of the words of this oath. So help me God."
The hon. baronet then proceeded to observe, that the House was now in possession of a statement of all that was required to be granted; and he trusted that when these Resolutions should be examined, they would be found to contain nothing more than what was fair and equitable in regard to the Catholic subjects of the realm. He should therefore move "That these Resolutions be brought up."
The Speakerapprehended that the hon. member had not distinctly made himself understood as to what was the nature and object of his motion.
Sir H. Parnellsaid, he wished to move that these Resolutions be brought up.
The Speakerreplied, that the hon. member had described a certain paper which he held in his hand to be a series of Resolutions come to by the Catholics of Ireland, and he understood him to intend to move that the paper so described be brought up.
Sir H. Parnellrejoined, that he should move the first Resolution, finding that to be a more proper course, than taking them generally.
The Speaker.The hon. member now makes another motion. Which, therefore, is the motion that he intends to propose? I understood him to intend to move two different things; first, that the Resolutions should be brought up; and afterwards, that the House should agree to the first Resolution.
Sir H. Parnellanswered, that understanding the House would not agree to his first motion, he had changed it.
The Speaker.Then the hon. member offers to the House the first of these Resolutions for their assent. The question then is: "That it is expedient that the Roman Catholic inhabitants of these realms shall not be liable or subject to any laws for the limitation, charging, or discovering of their estates, real or personal, or touching the acquiring, enjoying, holding, or disposing of properly of any kind or nature, save such as the Protestant inhabitants of these realms are liable and subject to."
Mr. Peter Moore.seconded the motion.
Mr. Bankes, observing that he should abstain at present from entering at large into the merits of the Catholic question, suggested for the consideration of the hon. baronet, that he was proceeding disadvantageously for his own object; because he himself, for instance, if called upon to vote upon this Resolution, as it appeared to be one of a string of resolutions, should feel it his duty to vote against it; and thus if the motion were rejected, the hon. baronet was liable to be deprived of the head and front of the object which he desired to attain. The clauses alluded to by the hon. baronet were, he was aware, ordered to be printed; but that order was made through a sort of private consent and convention between gentlemen on both sides of the question, to which convention he and others felt it inconsistent to accede with respect to the present resolutions, and of that the hon. baronet
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had had due notice. On these grounds he thought it would be more advisable on the part of the hon. baronet not to persevere in his motion, which was the less necessary now that the hon. baronet had had an opportunity of fully apprising the House of the nature of his propositions.
Mr. Yorkeseconded the views of the last speaker, declaring that he would be better pleased if the hon. baronet would consent to withdraw his motion. But he must add, that the hon. baronet's mode of proceeding appeared to him to be altogether novel and irregular—quite in opposition indeed to the standing order of the House, with regard to any question upon the subject of religion. If it were, as it appeared, the only object of the hon. baronet to get his Resolutions published, there were various means by which he might have contrived to give them publicity, without this mode of taking the House by surprise. As the notice of a motion upon this subject stood for Tuesday se'nnight, he should not at present enter into the general question; against the object of which, however, he felt no hesitation in protesting at the present time. The right hon. gentleman concluded with observing, that he could not help expressing his regret that this subject had been taken out of the hands by which it was usually conducted, because, if it had remained in those hands, it was not likely that the House would have been exposed to such inconvenience and irregularity as the present mode of proceeding involved.
Mr. Peter Mooredeclared that his support to the motion arose from the fact, that certain Resolutions, explanatory of the redress which the petitioners sought, were identified with it. This would enable them the better to judge, how far they would go, and where they would stop. He could see no irregularity in receiving resolutions of this kind, and having them printed pro forma: nor could he see how such a procedure could anticipate the general discussion.
Sir H. Parnellwillingly acquiesced in the suggestion of the hon. member (Mr. Bankes), and withdrew his motion, as the only object he had in view was accomplished, namely, that of explaining to the House the objects necessary to satisfy the wishes of the Cætholics of Ireland.
Mr. Peelobserved that the precedent alluded to had no analogy to the case of the hon. baronet, for the hon. baronet,

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although deputed to act for a certain class of his Majesty's subjects, was but an individual member of that House, whereas the right hon. member for Liverpool was deputed to act by the House itself, being one of a committee appointed to draw up a Bill, of which, according to the resolutions of the House, some provision for the security of the Protestant establishment must necessarily form a part. Therefore that right hon. member was acting in an official capacity in bringing forward the clauses which the House agreed to have printed.
Sir H. Parnellconceived, that it was not necessary for him to prove an exact analogy in order to justify his reference to the precedent alluded to.
The motion was then withdrawn.

MILITIA EMBODYING BILL.
Lord Castlereaghrose, pursuant to notice, in order to move for leave to bring in a Bill to authorize the drawing out and embodying of the whole or any part of the regular Militia. On the assurances which the House had already given of a disposition to support the executive authority in making adequate preparations for the security of the country in the present emergency, he grounded this proposition; and in the course of the discussion of the Bill further opportunity would be afforded for the consideration of the nature of that emergency, together with the general circumstances in which the empire was placed. At present he did not think it necessary to enter into these circumstances; and the more so, as he hoped to be enabled on Monday to bring down a Message from the Prince Regent, with regard to the arrangements which had been entered into with our Allies, together with copies of the subsidiary treaties which had been concluded. That Message he should propose to be considered on Tuesday, and on Wednesday it was intended to submit a motion in conformity with the subsidiary treaties. He was therefore confident, that under the existing state of things, the House would not hesitate in enabling him to bring in the Bill. As such a measure always had effect when the country was menaced, the very circumstance of the probability of a war with France was sufficient to authorize it; at any rate, it required no stretch of construction to sanction the Bill, for the very nature of the preparations which it was the duty of the country to make,
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and the necessity of sending so great a proportion of our regular force to the Continent, rendered it fit that the internal security of the country should be provided for. There were various reasons of policy also, which must induce the House to lose no time in passing the Bill, as there was a great portion of the militia whose term of enlistment would soon expire. He wished to apprise the House, that a regulation had be-en made by Government, which had given entire satisfaction to the men, by providing for their discharge within four months from the 1st of May. It was not intended, by this measure, to violate the good faith of the Government towards the men in the smallest degree. There were, however, certainly very considerable motives for avoiding delay. He was not aware that it was necessary to go into any farther particulars at present, as the state of warlike preparation in which we are placed had been recognized by Parliament; but it would be admitted that it would not be proper for the House to separate for the summer, without providing a measure to preserve the internal security of the country. The noble lord then moved, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to authorize, under present circumstances, the drawing out and embodying of the British and Irish Militia, or any part thereof."
Lord Miltonthought, that by the present regulations, if the five years for which the militia-men were enlisted had expired during the war, they would not be entitled to their discharge.
Lord Castlereaghreplied, that the contract was different with the balloted men, and many that had been raised as substitutes.
Viscount Folkestonecould not omit the opportunity of just noticing to the House how completely the opinions of the crown lawyers respecting the embodying of the militia were overthrown by the motion of the noble lord. The Attorney and Solicitor General had stated, that the militia being once called out, it was optional in the Crown to keep them embodied; and they had expressly argued, that any portion of the militia being embodied, the Crown might call out the whole of them again, without giving notice to Parliament. According to this doctrine, therefore, the bill which the noble lord proposed to bring in was totally unnecessary; but he believed, that the noble lord attached very little weight to those opinions,

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or he would not have consented to bring in the Bill. He condemned the apparent intention, as he understood the speech of the noble lord, of continuing those practices who respect to the militia, which tended directly to overthrow that wise and ancient system upon which it had hitherto been conducted; he alluded to the innovation of allowing militia-men to be drafted into the regulars, upon every temporary difficulty in which the country might happen to be placed.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that the reason why the Bill was necessary was, because a great part of the militia had been disembodied. And whatever opinion might be entertained of the prerogative possessed by the Crown to continue the militia, when once called out, it was never understood that the Crown had the power, in case of war, to call out the disembodied militia by its own authority.
Viscount Folkestonereplied, that the 144th clause of the Act had been cited as authorizing the Crown to call out the militia, and keep it embodied.
The Attorney Generalwould leave the noble lord to enjoy his imaginary triumph, and would only say, that the motion made by the noble Secretary of State, to call out the whole or any part of the militia in the present circumstances of the country, by no means implied that the opinion of the law officers was unsound—the opinion given was, that when the militia were legally called out, his Majesty might disembody or embody them as the public service required. A new state of things like the present might, however, justify a different course.
Mr. Tierneybegged to ask the noble lord, whether any, and what answer had been returned to the communication which the French Government had made to this country, and which was afterwards transmitted to the Congress at Vienna? Did the noble lord intend to give any information to the House on that subject on Monday next?
Lord Castlereaghreplied, that the communication which he intended to make on Monday would embrace, the point to which the right hon. gentleman had alluded.

DUBLIN HARBOUR.
The House having resolved itself into a committee, to consider of making provision for the improvement of Dublin Harbour.
Mr. Vesey Fitzgeraldsaid, that the neces-
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sity of improving the harbour of Dublin was so strongly felt by the merchants and ship-owners of that city, that they most cheerfully concurred in the proposition which he was about to make for levying certain duties upon vessels entering that port; and their sentiments would now have been before the House in the shape of a petition, if unfortunately the time had not elapsed when it could be presented. He would not take up the time of the House in enforcing the necessity of making the proposed improvement in that harbour, because it must be obvious to the gentlemen opposite to him, and, indeed, to every person acquainted with that port. In order to defray the expense of this work, he should propose a duty of 6d. a ton upon every foreign vessel, 4d. a ton upon every British vessel, and 2d. a ton upon all coasting and coal vessels entering that port. And as the proposed alteration would contribute greatly to the safety and accommodation of persons arriving there in the packets, he should propose, that each cabin passenger should pay 2s. 6d., and that the same sum should be paid for each horse and carriage brought by the packet. In addition to these, he should propose a duty upon invoices, outvoices, cockets, &c. making altogether about 15,000 l. a year. The sum necessary for the completion of this work was to be advanced by the Exchequer; and the sum to be raised by these duties, was to be applied to the payment of the interest and principal of the sum so advanced. The right hon. gentleman concluded with moving the Resolutions.
Mr. Shaw, of Dublin, expressed his decided approbation of the measure.
Sir H. Parnellalso spoke in favour of it.
Alderman Atkins> said, he was very much averse to any tax upon shipping. He thought it would be better, if the whole expense was paid out of the public purse. He added, that if these duties were imposed, the ship-owners would be obliged to raise the price of their freight.
Mr. Wellesley Poleexpressed his surprise at the objection of the hon. alderman. Every seaman knew how dangerous the bay of Dublin was; and he was convinced that there was not a ship-owner, whose vessels entered the bay of Dublin, who would not cheerfully pay the duty to have the harbour improved.
Mr. Peelesaid, the worthy alderman's argument answered itself; he first ob-

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jected to any tax upon shipping; and in the same breath said, that the ship-owners would not pay it themselves, but lay it upon the freight, so that, in fact, the citizens of Dublin would really bear the expense. He then stated the great number of vessels lost in the bay of Dublin, and particularly two transports in 1807, when between 7 and 800 soldiers were lost to the country.
General Gascoynedid not object generally to the measure; but as it must affect the interests of his constituents, he hoped the right hon. gentleman would not press it, but give time to the merchants of Liverpool to consider of the proposed duties, and to state their sentiments upon the subject.
The Resolution was agreed to, and the report was ordered to be received tomorrow.

TREATIES WITH THE ALLIES.
The House being met, pursuant to adjournment,
Earl Greywished to know whether it was in. the contemplation of his Majesty's Government to make any communication to the House on the subject of the Treaty of the 25th of March, signed at Vienna;
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and the other Treaties, which, though in substance, were not formally before the House.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that he believed he should on Monday be able to communicate those Treaties to the House, together with a Message on the same subject from the Prince Regent, and he should then move that the Message be taken into consideration on Tuesday.
Earl Greyobserved, that such a motion would be but a short notice on such an important question. He knew it was the custom of the House, when a message was delivered from the Crown, to come to the consideration of it with as little intervening delay as possible; but when that message referred to documents on which deliberation was necessary, before the House could reply to the message, some further time should be allowed. The Treaties, he supposed, would be communicated in form, which had already been laid in substance before the House. He wished to have explanation as to two points: The first question to which he wished to receive an answer, was, whether there was any substantial alteration in the Treaties which were before the House, or whether they had been ratified exactly in the state in which they had been laid before the House? He wished also to know, not only whether any alteration had been made in the Treaties, but whether the Allies had subjoined to their ratifications, any declaration or counter-declaration (on the subject of the explanatory declaration which had been affixed to the ratification of one of the Treaties, by this Government,) which might afford some new view of the Treaty? If any alteration or any such declaration had been made, it would be most material that further time should be afforded for consideration. There was another question, which the noble earl opposite could now answer, and which had some time since been put by a noble friend of his—as to the overture supposed to have been made by the present Government of France, to this country? The noble earl had on that occasion answered, that some communication had been made, but that it had been sent to the Allies at Vienna; and that before an answer was received from thence, no message would be brought down to the House. Now, before a question was decided which was to determine on the alternative of peace or war, it was necessary that the House should have be-

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fore it all proceedings, in the way of negociation, or all attempts at negociation, on either side, which had failed. This point it was hardly necessary to enforce; for when they were to decide on the propriety of war, it was obvious that the House should be in possession of all the circumstances by which it might by possibility be averted. If, therefore, there was no objection to the production of this information, the communication on Monday, with a notice for Tuesday, would hardly afford time enough for deliberation. As he had no wish to postpone the consideration of the question, except from a desire to be in possession of all the circumstances on so important a question, he should have no objection if the communication could be made to-morrow, with the documents to which be had alluded, to come to the discussion on Tuesday, or even on Monday; but if that information could not be laid before them till Monday, h thought some further delay would be convenient.
The Earl of Liverpoolobserved, that the usual method was to take into consideration a Message from the Crown on the first day of business after it was brought down. He believed, he should be able to snow, that no ground existed for a departure from the usual practice in the present instance. The ratifications of two of the Treaties had been received, duly executed; and of the third the ratification was not yet received, though notice was received that it had been ratified. The ratified Treaties were precisely the same as those which had already been laid, in substance, before the House. The declaration also which had been affixed by this Government to one of the Treaties, had met with the approbation of all the Allies. As to the communication from the Government of France, he had mentioned before, that an overture had been made, and that it was referred to the Allies at Vienna; and he had now to state, that no negociation would be entered into on that overture. Such being the state of the case as to facts, he thought no delay was necessary.
The> Marquis of Lansdowneobserved, that the nature of the overture from France was not known to the House; but it was material that it should be produced, before their lordships decided that the Government had acted properly in rejecting it.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid he had no objection to the production of it.
The Marquis of Buckinghnmsaid, it was necessary to know, not only whether the Allies had agreed to our Declaration, but whether they had subjoined any proviso to their own ratification.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that the Allies had subjoined no proviso.
Earl Greyexpressed a hope, that as there was no objection to the production of the communication from the French Government, it would be laid before the House.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that overture might be contained in a sheet of paper, and might be laid before the House either to-morrow or Monday.
Earl Greysaid, the Treaties then, as ratified, are precisely the same as those which are in substance before the House?
The Earl of Liverpool.Exactly the same.
Earl Stanhopesaid, that a very material piece of information had not been mentioned by the noble earl, but which it was necessary their lordships should have before them—the state of the finances of our Allies. Those finances were in a most miserable state, so that in the end he feared we should be obliged to pay all.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that lest he should have misled the House by what he had said, he should observe that subsidiary Treaties had been concluded, which would be laid before the House at the same time with the others.
Earl Stanhope.The noble earl has given no answer to my question, but has shirked it altogether.