Sitting of 27 June 1815

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING THE DUKE OF CUMBERLAND'S MARRIAGE.
Lord Castlereaghpresented the following
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Message from his royal highness the Prince Regent:
"GEORGE P. R.
"The Prince Regent, acting In the name and on the behalf of his Majesty, thinks it proper to acquaint this House, that a Marriage, to which the consent of his Royal Highness was duly given, has been solemnized between his brother the Duke of Cumberland and a daughter of the reigning Duke of Mecklenberg Strelitz, niece to her Majesty the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and relict of the Prince Salms Braunfels.
"The many proofs which this House has afforded of their affectionate attachment to his Majesty's person and family, leave the Prince Regent no doubt of their readiness to enable his Royal Highness to make such provision for their Royal Highnesses on this occasion as the rank and station of their Royal Highnesses may appear to require."
Ordered to be referred to a committee of the whole House to-morrow. In the course of the evening,
Mr. Bennetbegged leave to inquire of the right hon. gentleman opposite, whether he knew it to be the intention of the noble lord to submit any proposition to the House in consequence of the Message which had been that day brought down respecting the marriage of the duke of Cumberland, and if a grant was to be proposed, he wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman could state the probable amount of that grant?
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, it was evident from the terms of the Message that a proposition for a grant to the duke of Cumberland would be made; but to what extent it might be, he was not at present prepared to say.
Mr. Tierneyasked the right hon. gentleman if he could inform the House when the marriage took place, and why the communication which had now been made was so long delayed? He thought it would have been but fair, to inform the House what was the nature of the provision intended to be proposed.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid that no unusual or unnecessary delay had occurred in making the communication to Parliament; and with respect to the intended amount of the grant, he believed such a question had never been asked, nor such a communication ever made, till

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the day on which the subject was regularly brought forward.

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING A VOTE OF CREDIT.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerpresented the following Message from the Prince Regent:
"GEORGE P. R.
"The Prince Regent, in the name and on the behalf of his Majesty, considering that it may be of very great importance to provide for such emergencies as may arise, and relying on the experienced zeal and affection of the House of Commons, trusts that this House will enable him to take such measures as the exigency of affairs may require."
This Message was ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow.
Sir M. W. Ridleyannounced his intention of opposing the grant of any further sum of money, because he could see no reason to call for the additional provision, under existing circumstances. The hon. baronet was proceeding, when
The Speakercalled him to order, observing, that upon giving notice of a proceeding, it was not regular to enter into a statement of reasons.
Sir M. W. Ridleysaid, that he did not desire to persevere, but he thought it his duty to take the earliest opportunity of objecting to any proposed addition to the burthens of the country.

IRISH FINANCES.
The Report of the Select Committee on the Public Income and Expenditure of Ireland having been entered as read,
Mr. Vesey Fitzgeraldsaid, that as he did not apprehend the motion he should have the honour of submitting to the House would meet with any opposition, it would not be necessary for him to enter into any detailed observations upon the subject. The House was aware that a committee had been appointed this session, similar to that which had been appointed on a former session, to inquire into the state of the finances of Ireland; that committee, after very mature deliberation, made a Report, which, in consequence of the very voluminous Appendix which was subjoined to it, could not be printed and delivered to the members before this day; he should therefore deem it unfair to enter into any discussion upon the subject now, even if he did not intend to submit the motion with which he should have the honour
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of concluding. After examining into the state of the finances of Ireland, the committee came to a resolution, which they considered themselves competent to do, under the Act of Union, of recommending a consolidation of the Exchequers of the two countries. He was aware that there prevailed in the committee a difference of opinion upon the construction of the 7th article of the Union, and if the question were now to be discussed, be should feel it necessary to justify the principles upon which the committee had proceeded; but as that was not the case, he should abstain from offering any arguments upon the subject; at the same time the House would feel that it was right to mark its sense of the importance of the subject, by coming to a resolution to take the Report into consideration early in the next session. There were many reasons, even if he were speaking at an earlier period of the session, why the House should postpone the consideration to the next session. The object of the proposition was to alter the whole financial state of Ireland, and it was therefore highly necessary that the public of that country should be fully apprized of the extent of the measure, and of the manner in which it would affect them, before it was definitively adopted. He, should therefore not trouble the House any longer, except to read the last paragraph of the Report, which recommended the consolidation of the two Exchequers. Mr. Fitzgerald having read the paragraph, concluded with moving, "That this House will, at an early period in the next session of parliament, take into consideration the said Report,"
Mr. Bankessaid, he should follow the example of moderation which the right hon. gentleman had set to him, and abstain from entering into the discussion at present. In all that he had said of the importance and magnitude of the subject he fully concurred: he concurred, too, in the propriety of deferring the consideration until the next session. He was one of those who differed from the right hon. gentleman and from the majority of the committee, in opinion respecting the constitution of the 7th Article of the Act of Union. He thought they had taken an erroneous view of the whole question. He did not deny, however, that many good results might follow from the adoption of the recommendation of the committee, and from the proposed union of the two exchequers. He could not avoid

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taking this opportunity of doing justice to the abilities of the right hon. gentleman. Whatever course might be taken, be should regret any measure which should deprive the country of the right hon. gentleman's services; he had often differed from him, but he had at all times been sensible of the great talents and knowledge which he possessed, of the candour which he had upon all occasions shown, and of the zeal, the fidelity, and distinguished ability with which he had discharged all his public duties. He had adopted the financial system which he found acted on by others; if in his (Mr. Bankes) opinion he had followed it too long, he had, on the other hand, showed energy and great ability in his efforts to ameliorate the financial state of Ireland. If these were faults, they were the faults of those who had preceded the right hon. gentleman; the merits of improvement were all his own.
The Resolution was agreed to.

ASSIZE OF BREAD REPEAL BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of the Bill to repeal the law with regard to the Assize of Bread,
Mr. Calcraftexpressed a wish that this motion should be postponed, as he, among others, who applied, had not yet been able to obtain from the Vote-office a copy of the Report of the committee upon which the Bill was, founded. This was, besides, a matter of such general interest, that he thought it ought not to be passed until the next session, in order that the public should have sufficient opportunity to consider its merits. For himself, he declared an inability to comprehend how the public could be benefited by a measure of this nature. There was no assize law as to beer, and yet that article had not become cheaper on that account. The assize law only fixed the maximum at which bread should be sold, but by no means prevented bakers from selling at a cheaper rate if they thought proper.
Mr. F. Lewisregretted, that the hon. gentleman should experience any difficulty in procuring the Report of the Committee; but he saw no reason why the second reading should be delayed, as the measure had been already so long under consideration, and as the session was not likely to continue many days.
Mr. Alderman C. Smithhad no objection to the Bill, but wished that the bakers should be protected.
General Thorntonwas anxious that the
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Bill should be passed with all convenient expedition, and wished that its provisions were extended throughout the country.
Mr. Alderman Atkinsthought that the House should be very cautious how they overturned a system which had stood the test of 700 years. The principle of the Assize Law was, in his opinion, unobjectionable, although the mode of taking the assize was imperfect, and réquired modification. It was known that the chandlers settled among themselves the price at which candles should be sold per dozen, and would it not be better for the public that this price should be settled by the magistrates than by interested parties?
Mr. R. Smithdeclared, that he had not yet seen the Report alluded to.
Mr. F. Lewisargued at some length in support of the Bill. The total repeal of the Assize Law would, he said, alone be effectual, and this was demonstrated by a mass of evidence examined before the Committee; from which it appeared, that no modification would avail to produce the desired effect. The Assize Law had, in fact, uniformly served to render bread dearer instead of cheaper, and bread was notoriously lower in those places where no Assize Law prevailed. The hon. alderman (Atkins) bad no doubt asserted the tendency of this law to reduce the price of bread, and yet that alderman was among those who contributed so much to agitate the public some time ago, by alledging, that if wheat were at 80 s. a quarter, bread must be sold at 16 d. a loaf. Yet if such were the effect, a quantity of wheat which would sell at 4l., would in bread produce 7l. 14 s. So much for the profit of the bakers, and the consequences of that system of assize, for which the hon. alderman was an advocate upon this occasion. It appeared in evidence that the assize was not merely the maximum, but afforded a pretext for keeping up the high price of bread. For the witnesses examined before the Committee, generally-answered, that no respectable baker would sell bread at a lower rate than that fixed by the assize, because bread so sold was generally considered of inferior quality. Then as to the manner of fixing the assize, it mattered nothing to the baker at what price flour was sold under the existing law, because that price settled the price of the loaf, and that might be easily fixed by arrangement between the mealman and the baker; which arrangement was indeed the more easy, as the latter was generally

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the agent of the former. The latter, in feet, who was often a very poor man, had his flour at long credit from the former; and yet the price settled upon such credit, formed the standard by which the price of bread was fixed. It was obvious, therefore, that the public must suffer under the existing law, and that such a law ought to be abolished. The evil was inherent in the law, and no modification as to the mode of fixing the assize could avail. Another modification which he intended to propose in the committee, was to amend the law as it now stood, imposing a penalty on the baker for any bread which he might have on his premises being short of weight, and to inflict the penalty only for such bread as he might offer to sell or actually sell, under the full weight provided by act of parliament. He would also, of course, abolish the right of searching the premises for such bread, as it was often a great oppression upon a man to be fined for certain loaves being deficient in weight, which perhaps were never intended to be offered for sale. He agreed with the hon. alderman that the passing this Act was only an experiment, as was the case indeed with almost every act which that House passed; but he thought it impossible to make the experiment fairly, without wholly repealing the present law. He was anxious that the measure should be carried with as little delay as possible, and therefore should propose that the Bill be committed on Friday.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersuggested, that as little time should be lost as possible in the present advanced state of the session.
Mr. Tierneythought it would be better to pass such a measure at the commencement rather than at the end of a session, because there would then be time to mark its operation, and to amend it if found deficient.
Mr. Whitbreadconcurred in the opinion expressed by his right hon. friend, and thought that it would be better to make the Bill as perfect now as possible, and then leave it to be taken up again and passed at the beginning of the next session.
Mr. F. Lewissaid, that one argument, and a very strong one, for passing the measure now might cease to exist at the Commencement of the next, or of any Other session; he meant the present low price of corn; at the same time he was disposed to meet the wishes of the House.
The Bill was then committed for Friday.

STAMP DUTIES BILL.
The Chancellor of the Exchequermoved the order of the day for going into a consideration of the Report of the Stamp Duties Bill.
Mr. Bankessaid, that this was a subject of the utmost importance, and he would not suppose his right hon. friend could think of bringing it forward in so very thin a House. He was undoubtedly in their power, but he did not wish to take advantage of there not being a House, in order to impede the business of his Majesty's Government. The public, however, were at the same time so materially interested in many points of this subject, which remained yet unsettled, that he hoped his right hon. friend would name some day for a discussion of the subject, when a fuller attendance might be expected.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that after the candid manner in which his hon. friend had stated his wish for a postponement of the business he would not press it at present; but would take the opinion of the Speaker whether the amendments proposed might not be taken on the Report, as it would tend materially to expedition, if the other parts could be taken into immediate consideration.
Mr. Grenfellsaid, he had an amendment of considerable importance to propose relative to the composition which had been made with the Bank respecting the stamps on their notes. As the Act stood, that composition had been made on an average of three years: now he thought that it should be on the average of the last year. By the clause now in the Bill, the Bank would pay 87,500 l.; whereas by the effect of the clause he had to propose, the Bank would pay 100,000 l. The Bank had received immense advantages. Since 1789, the loss to the public, in consequence of these advantages, had not been less than half a million; and he saw no reason why the public should longer submit to be such losers. If, therefore, he should not stand in a worse situation, but could move his clause with equal effect on the Report, he should have no objection to take the debate on that stage of the Bill; but if he could not have that advantage, he should certainly give it his opposition.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerappealed to the authority of the Chair.
The Speakerexpressed his opinion to be, that such a clause could not be introduced on the Report, because by the clause now standing in the Bill a tax was

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imposed on the Bank of a certain sum. This had been done by a committee of the whole House; and as the clause intended to be proposed by the hon. gentleman would go to impose a higher tax on an individual (for the Bank in this case must stand in the light of an individual), he was of opinion that according to the forms of the House such a clause could not be admitted, nor properly taken into consideration but by a committee of the whole House.
Mr. Thorntonsaid, that when the hon. gentleman should make his motion for augmenting the Stamp Duties on the Bank, he, and the gentlemen concerned in conducting its affairs, would be prepared to defend the composition it had made. He should also be ready to affirm, that the exemption from stamp-duty, on payment of the then composition, was considered in the price of the charter. He complained that the hon. gentleman should indulge in reflections on the Bank, and depreciate the high character and credit of that corporation, which had rendered such essential service to the public, when the business was not before the House in a state that admitted his reflections to be answered.
Mr. Forbes and Mr. Majoribanksalso offered some observations respecting the notes of Country Banks, and particularly adverted to the heavy operation which the Act would have on the Banks of Scotland. The latter gentleman expressed his hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would drop the tax altogether, as it was intended to affect the Scotch notes.
Mr. Giddyhoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would abandon the tax upon periodical publications and pamphlets, and upon the advertisements which the publishers of those works attached to their covers, announcing such other works as were in a state of publication. He considered such a course important to the diffusion of knowledge; and as the produce of the tax was but trifling, he hoped the right hon. gentleman would adopt his suggestion.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, the tax had originated with queen Anne, and if it was objectionable, the ministers of the present day were not liable to reprehension as its inventors. It had hitherto been a productive tax, and in the present state of the country, he did not feel that he should be authorized in abandoning it.
General Thorntonsuggested the expediency of imposing a tax on pamphlets, similar to that on newspapers, by which they could be sent post-free. This, he thought, would be more productive to the revenue, and would tend materially to the diffusion of knowledge.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that any person might now have their pamphlets stamped in this way, and seat post-free.
After some further conversation, the House went into a Committee.