Sitting of 26 June 1815

ADDITIONAL GRANT TO THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON.
The Report of the Committee of Supply was brought up, and on reading the resolution for an additional grant of 200,000 l. to the duke of Wellington,
Sir W. W. Wynnexpressed his approbation of the vote; but suggested, with a view to commemorate the glorious cause of such a grant, that the same terms should be annexed to it as those upon which the duke of Marlborough held Blenheim, namely, the annual presentation to his Majesty of a flag with a fleur-de-lis. The hon. baronet also thought that some Crown lands should be appropriated to the duke of Wellington, upon which to erect the proposed mansion.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerconcurred with the hon. baronet, that the performance of some honorary service would be a proper and becoming appendage to the proposed grant. But as to the observation respecting the Crown lands, it would be seen, upon a review of the commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of those lands, that no such grant could be made as the hon. baronet recommended; that, in fact, no adequate estate for the use of the duke of Wellington could be had from those lands.
Mr. Whitshed Keenethought that, comparing the services of the duke of Marlborough with those of the duke of Wellington, the grant to the latter was still insufficient: the sum voted to the duke of Wellington would not, in his opinion, purchase an estate of more than 14,000 l. a year, while the sum of 25,000 l. per annum was at least necessary to maintain

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the dignity of this illustrious person's family.
Mr. Wynnsaid, that an adequate estate for the duke of Wellington might be made from the New Forest. He differed from the last speaker, that the sum voted on this occasion was insufficient; for it was to be considered, that in addition to the 700,00,0l. voted, which, including the sum under discussion, would be granted to this distinguished individual, his proportion of the prize-money to be voted for stores captured on the peninsula would be no less than 100,000 l.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerstated, that the proportion alluded to would amount only to 50,000 l.
Mr. Wynnthought, that even with that addition, the amount of the remuneration would be quite sufficient, and worthy of the munificence of the country—equally honourable, indeed, to the giver and to the receiver.
Sir C. Burrellobserved, that even if a suitable quantity of Crown lands could be obtained for the purpose under consideration, such ground would not be so much for the benefit of the duke of Wellington, as an estate in cultivation. He recommended that the object be rather to lay out the sum voted in the purchase of a suitable estate, than in the erection of a large mansion, because the latter would be liable to decay, to fire, and to other accidents—of course it could not be regarded as an imperishable monument of national gratitude.
The Resolution was agreed to.

CIVIL LIST.
Upon reading the Resolution with regard to the Civil List,
Mr. Tierneytook occasion to observe, that this subject was, as he had apprehended long since, brought forward at too late a period of the session to undergo any due dicussion. Such a discussion could not indeed take place, as the House knew scarcely any thing of the items of the account to which this Resolution for 534 713 l. referred, in consequence of the refusal to have the papers respecting it printed. He should not, however, oppose the motion, as it was not, he understood, the intention of the right hon. gentleman to propose any legislative measure upon the subject this session; but he should reserve himself for the occasion in the next session, when he trusted this business would be fully discussed, and he hoped that by that time gentlemen would en-
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deavour to make themselves acquainted with this account. But without going into any discussion at present, he must observe upon the impression produced out of doors in consequence of a strong assertion in that House, that by the arrangement of the Civil List his Majesty was a loser, and the country a gainer, because the produce of the hereditary revenue would be truly more productive than the revenue of the Civil List. This assertion, however, he directly denied; for he could not suppose it was meant to include in the Civil List the occasional grants made to George 2, which grants ceased with that monarch's life. But he wished that gentlemen on the other side would state what they meant by the hereditary revenue; and he hoped the right hon. gentleman would come forward with some distinet statement on the subject before the close of the session.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved, that this vote was brought under the consideration of the House as soon as it was practicable, quite as soon indeed as it could have been if the Bill had been adopted, for which the right hon. gentleman was an advocate, at an early period of the session. For the accounts respecting the Civil List were laid before the House as soon as that Bill required, and these accounts were immediately referred to a committee, upon whose report the present was founded. He should not enter into the general discussion at present, as he did not mean to propose any legislative measure until the next session but he hoped that during the recess, gentlemen would thoroughly examine the Report of the Committee, and upon such examination he was persuaded they would come to a conclusion very different from that stated by the right hon. gentleman. It would be seen, indeed, that this Report made an accurate distinction between the hereditary and the temporary revenue of the Crown. The hereditary revenue was in fact the grant made upon the abolition of the feudal rights of the Crown, and he was fully prepared to maintain the assertion, that his Majesty was a loser by the commutation of that revenue for the produce of the Civil List.
Mr. Tierneycontended, that the hereditary revenue ought to have been distinguished from the temporary.
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that if the Crown had possessed an improvable revenue instead of a fixed one, as was the case with

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George 2, it would not only have been prevented from ever coming to Parliament to make good deficiencies, but it would have been left in possession of an aggregate sum of 6,000,000 l. more than it ever had received since his present Majesty's accession. his opinion, indeed, remained unchanged, that no income in the empire had been so little increased, in proportion to the progressive increase of other incomes, as that of the Crown.
Mr. Tierneyobserved, that it did not require the Report of the Committee to prove what the noble lord had said.
Mr. Wynndenied that the hereditary revenue of the Crown was beyond the control of Parliament. If the amount of that hereditary revenue exceeded what Parliament might think necessary for the expenditure of the Civil List, the Crown was bound to apply the surplus towards the payment of the army, navy, or any other branch of expenditure which Parliament might propose; and he would instance, as a proof, "he case of king William, whose hereditary revenue was charged with an additional expense of 100,000 l. a year by Parliament. The revenue of the Crown, whatever might be its nature, was the revenue of the people, and as such, subject to the control of Parliament.
Lord Binningvindicated the Report of the Committee, as being drawn up in the only way that could render its inquiries useful.
The Resolution was then agreed to, as were the other resolutions of the committee.

RESOLUTIONS PROPOSED BY MR. MELLISH CONCERNING THE BANK OF ENGLAND.
Mr. Mellishhaving moved his Resolutions concerning the Bank of England, a conversation ensued, in which Mr. Mellish, Mr. Tierney. Mr. Grenfell, and Mr. Manning participated. It was at length agreed, that the discussion on the Resolutions proposed by Mr. Grenfell and Mr. Mellish should be adjourned to that day se'ennight. The following is a copy of the Resolutions proposed by Mr. Mellish:—
Resolutions proposed concerning the Bank of England.
1—" That by the Act of 31 Geo. 3, cap. 33, there was allowed to the Bank of England, for the management of the public debt, 450 l. per million on the capital stock transferable at the Bank,
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amounting in the year ending 5th July 1792, to 98,803 l. 12 s. 5d. on about 219,596,000 l. then so transferable; and that by the Act 48 Geo. 3, cap. 4, the said allowance was reduced to the rate of 340 l. per million on ail sums not exceeding 600 millions, and to 300 l. per million; on all sums exceeding that amount; whereby the Bank was entitled, in the year ending 5th April, 1815, to the sum of 241,971 l. 4s. 2¼d. on about 726,510,700 l. capital stock, and 798 l. 3s.7d.on 2,347,588 l. three per cents, transferred for life annuities; being an increase of 143,965 l. 15 s. 4¼d. for management, and an increase of about 509,322,000 l. capital stock: also the Bank was allowed 1,000 l. for taking in contributions, amounting to 812,500 l. on a lottery in the year ending 5th July 1792; and 38,798 l. 19 s. 2d. for taking in contributions, amounting to 46,585,533 l. 6s. 8d. on loans and lotteries in the year ending 5th April, 1815.
2.—" That it appears, that the Bank, in pursuance of the Act 46 Geo. 3, cap. 65, has, from the year 1806 to the present time, made the assessments of the duly on profits arising from property, on the proprietors of the whole of the Funded Debt, transferable at the Bank of England, and has deducted the said duty from each of the several dividend warrants, which in one year, ending 5th April 1815, amounted in number to 565,600 l.; and that this part of the business has been done without any expense to, or charge on, the public.
"That, in pursuance of the above-mentioned Act, the duties so deducted have from time to time been placed to the 'Account of the Commissioners of the Treasury, on account of the said duties,' together with other sums received from the public by virtue of the said Act: part of this money is applied to the payment of certificates of allowances, and the remainder is paid into the Exchequer.
"That by virtue of the said Act, the lords commissioners of the Treasury have made annual allowances, at the rate of 1,250 l. per million, upon the amount so placed to the account of the commissioners of the Treasury at the Bank of England, as a compensation for receiving, paying, and accounting for the same; which allowances, however, have not in any one year exceeded the sum of 3,480 l., and upon an average of eight years have amounted annually to 3,154 l. only.
"The amount of duties received for

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the year ending 5th April, 1814, was 2,784,343 l., which, if it had been collected in the usual manner, at an allowance of 5d. per pound, would have cost the public 58,007 l.; and the cost for collecting 20,188,293 l., being the whole of the duty received from 1806 to 1814, on which allowances have been made, would at the same rate have amounted to 420.589 l.
"That all monies received by the Bank on account of duties on property, are paid into the Exchequer immediately after the receipt thereof: when this circumstance is contrasted with the ordinary progress of monies into the Exchequer, the advantage resulting to the public may be fairly estimated at two per cent.; which, on the amount of duties for the year ending 5th April 1814, would be 55,686 l., and on the total amount from 1800 to 1814, would be 403,765 l.
3. "That the total amount of Banknotes and Bank Post-bills in circulation in the years 1795, and 1796, (the latter being the year previous to the Restriction on Cash Payments) and in the year 1814, was as follows:

1795,

Feb. 1,

£12,735,520;

Aug. 1,

£11,214,000

1796,

Feb. 1,

£10,784,740;

Aug. 1,

£ 9,856,110

1814,

Feb. 1,

£25,154,950;

Aug. 1,

£28,802,450

4. "That at present, and during many years past, both before and since the renewal of the charter of the Bank, considerable sums of the public money have been deposited with, or otherwise placed in the custody of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, who act in this respect as the banker of the public. The average balances of these deposits, both before and after the renewal of the charter, were as follows:—

Public Balances on an average of one year ending Jan. 15, 1800

£1,724,747

Unclaimed Dividends for the average of one year ending Jan. 1, 1800

837,966

£2,562,713

Public Balances on an average of eight years, from 1807 to 1815

4,375,405

Unclaimed Dividends on an average of eight years, from 1807 to 1815

634,614

£5,010,019

5. "That it appears, from a report ordered to be printed 10th August, 1807, from "the Committee on Public Expenditure of the United Kingdom," that the aggregate amount of balances and deposits of public money in the Bank of England, including Bank-notes deposited in the
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Exchequer, made up in four different periods of the quarter ending 5th January 1807, fluctuated between £he sums of 11,461,200 l., and 12,198,236 l.; or, excluding Bank-notes deposited at the Exchequer, the amount fluctuated between 8,178,536 l., and 9,948,400 l.; the reason for which exclusion is not obvious, as by the Act of 48 Geo. 3, cap. 3, the Tellers of the Exchequer are authorized to take as securities on monies lodged, either Exchequer-bills, or notes of the Governor and Company of the Bank of England. And it also appears, according to accounts laid before this House in the present session of Parliament, that the aggregate amount of such deposits, together with the Exchequer-bills and Bank-notes deposited in the chests of the four Tellers of the Exchequer, was, on an average, in the year 1814,

£11,966,371.

Including Bank-notes deposited at the Exchequer, amounting to 642,264 l.

£11,324,107.

Excluding Bank-notes deposited at the Exchequer.

6. "That it appears, according to accounts before this House, that the average of the aggregate amount of balances of public money in the hands of the Bank of England, from February 1807 to April 1815, was 5,010,019 l.; and that the average of Bills and Bank-notes deposited in the chests of the four Tellers of the Exchequer, from August 1807 to April 1815, was 5,968,793 l.; making together 10,978,812 l., being 850,906 l. less than the average of the said accounts for one year ending 5th January 1807, as stated in the report of the committee on the Public Expenditure.
7. "That by the. 39 and 40 Geo. 3, cap. 28, extending the charter of the Bank for 21 years, the Bank advanced to the public 3,000,000 l. for 6 years without interest, and extended the loan of 11,686,800 l. for 21 years at an interest of 3l. per cent per annum, as a consideration for the privileges, profits, emoluments, benefits, and advantages, granted to the Bank by such extension of its charter.

That the Interest of 3,000,000 l. for 6 years, at 5l. per cent, per annum, is

£900,000

That the difference between 51. per cent, and 5l. per cent, on 11,686,800 l., is 233, 736; which in 21 years amounts to

4,908,456

That the above Loan of 3,000.000 l. was continued to the Public from 1806, when it became payable, until 1814, at aw interest of 3l. per cent., making an advantage in favour of

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the Public of 2l. per cent, or 60,000 l. per annum; which in 8 years and 3 months amounts to

520,000

That in 1803 the Bank advanced to the Public 3,000,000 l. without interest, which, by an Act of the present Session, is to remain without interest until the 5th of April, 1816; the interest on this advance, 3.151. percent., will for 8 years amount to

1,200,000

8. "That by the 39 and 40 Geo. 3, cap. 28, sec. 13, it is enacted, that during the continuance of the charter, the Bank shall enjoy all privileges, profits, emoluments, benefits, and advantages whatsoever, which they now possess and enjoy by virtue of any employment by or on behalf of the public.
"That previously to such renewal of their charter, the Bank was employed as the public banker, in keeping the cash of all the principal departments in the receipt of the public revenue, and in issuing and conducting the public expenditure.

That the average amount of the Public Balances in the bands of the Bank, between the 1st of February 1814 and the 15th January 1815, upon accounts opened at the Bank previously to the renewal of the charter on the 28th March 1800, was

£4,337,025

Unclaimed Dividends, for the average of one year ending 1st January 1815

779,794

£5,116,819

That the average of Public Balances in the hands of the Bank during the same period, upon accounts opened at the Bank between the 28th March 1800 and the 27th Feb. 1808, was

£370,018

That the average of Public Balances in the hands of the Bank during the same period, upon accounts opened at the Bank subsequent to the 27th Feb. 1808, was

261,162.

9. "That whenever the engagements now subsisting between the public and the Bank shall expire, it may be proper to consider the advantages derived by the Bank from its transactions with the public with a view to the adoption of such arrangements as may be consistent with those principles of equity and good faith, which ought to prevail in all transactions between the public and the Bank of England."