Sitting of 6 June 1814

CORN LAWS.
A great number of petitions were presented against the proposed Corn Laws, and praying that their consideration might be postponed till next session. These were received, and ordered to lie on the table.
One from Leeds, lord Milton, who presented it, stated to have twenty thousand signatures, although the meeting from which it originated took place only on Wednesday last, and although the petition was not handed about for signatures.
Mr. Thorntonpresented a petition from the owners and occupiers of land in the county of Surrey, praying that their interest might be protected, which, they were of opinion, could be done without injury to the other inhabitants of Great Britain. He presented also a petition from Godalming, and another from Kingston, against the Corn Bills; and observed, that under the conflicting opinions, he recommended that time should be taken to weigh more fully the consequences of this important measure, and to see if the conflicting interests might not be reconciled.
Mr. Howorth, in presenting a petition from the borough of Evesham, shortly stated, that private letters accompanying that petition had informed him, that a considerable ferment had been excited in the public mind throughout the country upon this subject; and although he was aware that parliament ought not to be deterred from the discharge of its duties by mere clamour, yet in the present instance, no positive necessity appearing to exist for the present Bill, he would submit it to the House, whether it would not be exercising a sound discretion to postpone further proceedings until the country should have time, deliberately, to examine into the true nature of the proposed measure.
On presenting a petition from Exeter, Mr. Courtenay urged the propriety of attending to the prayer of the petition by postponing the further consideration of the question to which it referred until the next session.
Mr. M. A. Taylor, on presenting a petition from Poole, stated, that it was signed by a number of respectable individuals who were fully competent to form an opinion upon the subject. For himself, he had no hesitation in saying, that he entirely concurred in the wish of the petitioners. Indeed, from the moment the

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measure referred to was brought forward, he had the strongest, objections to it; being always of opinion that parliament ought not to interfere upon the subject, but leave corn, like every other article in trade to find its own level.
Mr. Lockhart, upon presenting a petition from Oxford, observed, that at the meeting from which it originated, he had thought it his duty to address his constituents, with a view to impress upon their minds, that the measure to which the petition referred was not calculated to produce the consequences which the petitioners apprehended. He deprecated the sentiment which prevailed among them with regard to the motive of those by whom that measure was brought forward. He therefore told his constituents, that it was their interest, that it was the universal interest of the nation, to encourage the industry of our own countrymen, by preferring the produce of our own agriculture to that of foreigners, and thus to render, ourselves independent of foreign supply. This statement he thought due to the character of that House, to that of the authors of the measure under consideration, and to his own conscientious conviction. But he was sorry to find that he totally failed in producing the impression he desired; and he felt it right to inform ministers that a considerable alarm prevailed upon the subject; and that districts, heretofore remarkable for their peaceable and orderly conduct, were in a state of great agitation in consequence of this measure. He therefore conceived that it would be advisable to postpone any further proceeding upon the measure until the public mind was in a better temper, by being more enlightened respecting it. Ministers would, he had no doubt, act with firmness; tempered, however, he trusted, with a due degree of prudence.
Mr. Canning, who presented a petition from Liverpool with 22,000 signatures, said, that he thought it impossible for any man who had cast his observation about for the last ten days, not to feel, that unless some urgent and pressing necessity called for its adoption, it would be the height of impolicy to urge the measures referred to by the petitioners at present. No such urgent necessity had been shewn to exist; and as he was confident, without pronouncing any opinion upon the merits of the Bill, that it was not yet understood, he recommended strongly that it should not be hurried through the House. In
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whatever way the question might be met, or whatever might be his ultimate opinion upon it, he was persuaded that a measure of this nature ought no to be carried, unless the general opinion of the people out of doors were in its favour. On these grounds, he would be an advocate for any proposition to postpone the further proceeding upon this measure at present; and the more so because he thought it might be dispensed with, at least until it should undergo further consideration, and until a thorough understanding of its character and object should be propagated among the people.
General Gascoignesupported the view of his right hon. colleague; and adverting to a scoff applied to a similar petition lately presented from Bristol, declared his conviction, that so universal and so strong was the public objection to the measure referred to, that it would be dangerous to the peace of the country to adopt it.
Lord Levison Gower, on presenting a petition from Wolverhampton, spoke in the same strain. Mr. Coke presented a petition from the corn growers and millers of Norfolk in favour of the proposed alteration in the corn laws. Ordered to lie on the table—as was a petition of an opposite nature, presented by Mr. W. Smith, from Norwich, which petition the hon. member stated to have 12,000 signatures.
About five o'clock lord Castlereagh entered the House for the first time since his return from France, and was greeted with loud and most animated cheering, frequently repeated from every part of the House. Business was for some moments suspended. His lordship bowed, and took his seat amid the acclamations of the members.

PETITION OF CLOCK-MAKERS OF LONDON.
Sir W. Curtispresented a Petition of the master wardens and court of assistants of the art or mystery of clockmakers in the city of London, setting forth: "That the art of making clocks and watches was long since established, and has been carried on in this country with great private and public advantage, and has attained unequalled excellence; that, till within a few years past, more than 100,000 clocks and watches have been annually made, whereby the sum of at least 500,000 l. has been produced by British labour, on materials principally of British produce; and that many thousand artisans

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were thereby usefully employed; and that the national advantages derived from the perfection to which the art of clock and watch-making has been carried in this country, are not limited to the value of its produce, but extend to every branch of manufacture in which machinery is used; and that, from the operation of various causes, the value of the clock and watch manufactory as a source of national advantage has of late years been greatly deteriorated, and continues rapidly declining; the manufacturers, deprived of adequate employment, are obliged to seek other means of subsistence, and the workmen in all its branches are, in great numbers, reduced to distress, or are dependent on parochial relief for support, and many of the superior workmen, destitute of suitable encouragement at home, have been seduced to foreign countries, carrying with them their knowledge and ability, to construct and employ the most valuable and useful machinery, whereby the principal manufactures of Great Britain will be transplanted and established in foreign countries to the exclusion of British manufactures; and that the former prosperity of a manufactory so intrinsically and relatively important, was in a great measure attained by the enforcement of the restrictions imposed by act of parliament on the importation of foreign clock and watch work, as well in an incomplete as in a complete state; and that, in the year 1787, a duty of 27½ per centum was imposed on all foreign clocks and watches imported into this country, which duty has subsequently, from time to time, been increased, and now amounts to 75 per centum; and that, in consequence of the want of provisions adequate to the collection of such import duties, the illicit introduction into this country of foreign clock and watch work has obtained to an extent ruinously injurious to the British manufactory, and the advantage derived by the smuggler having increased in proportion to the increase of the duties, the illicit trade is now so regularly systematized, that the importers will undertake the safe conduct and delivery of foreign clock and watch work, without payment of duty, in this country, for 10 per cent. on its value, thus affording the illicit trader a premium of 65 per cent. which enables him to undersell the British manufacturer, and to the great injury of the public revenue; and that this facility with which foreign clock and watch work
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is illicitly imported into this country, is one of the principal causes of the declining state of the British manufactory; and that, during the long continuance of the war, the exportation of British clock and watch work has very much diminished, white the illicit importation of foreign clock and watch work has increased to an unprecedented degree during the same period, and, unless some new remedy be opposed to the evil, there is reason to apprehend that, whenever a general peace shall be made, the condition of the British manufactory of clocks and watches will become still more calamitous from the increased facilities with which foreign clock and watch work will then be illicitly introduced into this country, as well for home consumption as for the export trade; and that foreign clocks and watches so illicitly-imported are openly exposed for sale in all parts of the kingdom; and that, in order to obviate any impediments which national preference, joined to the acknowledged superiority of English work, might oppose to the sale of foreign watches, they are illicitly imported in an incomplete state, and, being made to resemble in their exterior appearance English watches, are sold as English, to the great injury of the public and the ruin of the petitioners; and that no permanent or effectual relief, to the distress of the petitioners can be obtained, unless the wisdom of parliament should interfere, and remove or mitigate those evils, the existence and consequence of which the petitioners most humbly represent and most sincerely deplore, and are prepared to prove to the House; and praying, that the House will investigate the extent and causes of the evils of which they complain, and will afford to the petitioners such relief as to them may seem meet."
Sir J. Newportobserved, that although the manufacturers were thus ready to come forward with petitions to secure to themselves the monopoly of their own market by the exclusion of foreign manufactures, yet they were loud in complaining of any attempt to secure the advantages of the British market to British agriculturists by the exclusion of foreign corn. When some gentlemen spoke of freedom of trade, he thought they appeared only to insist upon its application to agriculture, while every, restriction that could benefit manufacture was tenaciously maintained. If, indeed, the proposition of free trade were applied generally, the legislature

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would then proceed upon sound principle; but at present he had to complain, that the same measure of protection which was meted out to the manufacturer was denied to the agriculturist.
Mr. Rosesaid that the right hon. baronet had wholly mistaken the petition, as its only object was to guard the petitioners against fraud. As to the right hon. baronet's allusion to agriculture, he (Mr. R.) should be ready to meet him at the proper time on that point.
Sir J. Newportinsisted that he had not misunderstood the Petition; as its object was, to render more effectual the law which granted them a monopoly of the British market by the comparative exclusion of foreign manufactures.
Sir W. Curtisstated, that the petitioners did not require any monopoly; but only asked, that foreign watches should not be so marked, that a purchaser should, be unable to distinguish a good English watch from an inferior foreign article.
Mr. Barhamasked, for what purpose it could be required to prevent fraudulent importation, unless there was a prohibition? With regard to the Petitions presented against the proposed change in the corn laws, be thought that the House must yield to the public feeling on that subject; for a spirit had been excited out of doors, which was calculated to overawe the House; and he could not help expressing his surprise at the quarter from which the appeal had been recently made from that House to the people. He never, indeed, recollected any such appeal even at Palace-yard or Copenhagen-house. But any man could have roused the feelings of the people upon to subject of food. It required no talents to produce such agitation as now existed; but that agitation existing, no one could safely advise the House to proceed farther in the measure under consideration—indeed the House dare not—(A loud cry of Order! Chair! Chair!)
The Speakerexpressed his opinion, that the hon. member could not advisedly use such language.
Mr. Barhumexplained, that when he said that the House dared not proceed farther upon such a measure with a view to adoption, he meant that it dared not adopt such a Bill, under all the circumstance of the case; from consideration of the alarm which prevailed respecting it, and the evils which its adoption was but too likely to produce. He meant the House dared not do that which would be
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contrary to its duty. The hon. member concluded with observing that while some gentlemen on the other side pleaded for a freedom of trade when discussing the question respecting corn, none of them argued for the universal application of that principle. On the contrary, those gentleman (Mr. Rose), were continually proposing regulations and restriction in favour of manufactures. For instance, no one oftener proposed bounties than that right hon. gentleman; and all such bounties operated as taxes upon the public.
On the motion for referring the Petition to a committee,
Mr. Rosedeclared, that this was the first time he had ever heard a member of parliament observe, that there could be no fraudulent importation unless there was a prohibition; while the fact was, that not a single article was imported into this country without being subjected to taxation. So much for the hon. member's skill and intelligence. [Hear, hear! from sir J. Newport.] The hon. baronet might cheer, but his statement was correct—for he recollected very few articles indeed, not even excepting raw materials, which were not subject to an import duly. Of course, such articles might be fraudulently imported. The hon. member had alluded to excitement upon this subject; but all that he (Mr. R.) had done respecting the corn laws could not, be trusted, be deemed irregular; for it consisted in his speech delivered in that House, in which speech he conscientiously stated his opinion. In that question, he would ask what improper motive could be imputed to him, or how it was possible for him in such a case to be actuated by any sinister consideration? He declared that, independently of the speech alluded to, he had offered nothing to excite any petition upon this question. Even to Southampton, which was represented by a relation of his, he, when applied to upon the subject, merely sent the resolution of that House, without any advice whatever how the electors of that town should proceed. In fact, he did not believe that any excitement had been used, or was at all necessary, among the people upon this question. On the contrary, he regarded the petitions on the table quite as the spontaneous expression of the public opinion. Whether that opinion was correct or not, he had no doubt that it was spontaneous; and it was evidently so decided against the proposed change, that

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every considerate man must see the necessity of acceding to the wish of his right hon. friend, the representative for Liverpool, that the adoption of the measure referred to should be postponed, at least until it was more fully discussed and thoroughly understood.
Mr. Barkamin explanation said, that he had spoken only of the effect produced, and had not called the right hon. gentleman the author of the ferment.
Sir John Newportinsisted, that the prayer of this petition had for its object to confirm a duty which amounted to a prohibition on foreign watches and clocks. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Rose) had been so much accustomed to being an author, that he seemed to have quite forgotten that he not only made that speech in parliament, but afterwards published it; and, by so doing, he thought that he had greatly contributed to the ferment now existing. He must insist, that the manufacturers had no right to call for protecting duties for themselves, if they were unwilling that other classes of his Majesty's subjects should have equal protection. This was not fair; they should be content that protection should be meted out to all classes with an equal measure, or they should not call for it themselves. Was it not hard, that while protection was extended to other classes, the landholder should neither be at all protected from the competition of foreign agriculture, nor even allowed to export his own produce when it would bring the highest price? The landholder was in fact annoyed in two ways; first, he was not allowed to purchase foreign commodities if he could have them on cheaper terms, or to send his produce to a foreign market; while he was denied the benefit of a due preference in his own market. Thus did the law provide for the benefit of the manufacturer, to the prejudice of the agriculturist.
Mr. Protheroespoke in favour of the petition, the only object of which was to prevent foreign watches from being marked with the name of any English manufacturer, and so imposed as of English manufacture. An hon. member had, he observed, expressed surprise at the quarter by which objections had been made, or, as he stated, "prejudice excited," against the Bill before the House; but he (Mr. P.) could not help expressing his surprise, that such a measure had met no opposition in another quarter, which was generally forward to profess a great regard for the feelings and interests of the people.
Mr. W. Fitzgeraldexpressed his belief and confidence, that any delay which the measure before the House might experience would not serve to defeat, but to ensure its ultimate success. For such a measure required only to be fully discussed and understood, to secure general acquiescence; as it was meant and calculated for the general good. It was not to be regarded as a measure having only a partial view to the interests of Ireland, or any particular quarter, bat directed and designed for the benefit of all classes and districts of the empire. Such a measure, therefore, would not, he trusted, be abandoned.
Mr. Protheroe, in explanation, stated, that three Irish gentlemen were examined by the committee, whose report was before the House; but he trusted that evidence, with respect to the interests of England and Scotland, would be examined before such a measure as that which that report recommended should be enacted.
Mr. Canningdeprecated the discussion in which the House was engaged; as quite inapplicable to the question properly before it, and as ill calculated to cure the animosity, or calm the inflammation which prevailed in the country, with, regard to the measure fixed for consideration this evening, and into which gentlemen were rather prematurely entering.
The Petition was referred to a committee.
Mr. Whitbread Mr. Whitbread presented a petition praying for the abolition of the practice of imprisonment for debt on mesne process.—Ordered to lie on the table.

TREATY OF PEACE.
Lord Castlereagh presented a copy of the Treaty of Peace and Amity, signed at Paris the 30th of May 1814, between his Britannic Majesty and his Most Christian Majesty.
The title was read by the clerk, and it was received with loud cheers.
Lord Castlereagh having moved that it do lie on the table,
Mr. Wilberforceassured his noble friend, that if he had not been able to concur in the salutation with which his noble friend had been welcomed on his return to the House of Commons, it was, not from any want of personal cordiality; but because, seeing the noble lord coming up the House with the French Treaty in his hand, and calling to mind the arrangements made in it respecting the Slave Trade, he could not but conceive that he beheld in the noble

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lord's hand the deaths warrant of a multitude of innocent victims, men, women, and children, whom he had fondly indulged the hope of his having himself rescued from destruction. To a great extent, indeed, we had their preservation in an own power, to the amount of the importatinos of human beings which would now be made into the colonies we had given up to France, which colonies we should only have surrendered on an express stipulation that no mores slaves should be imported into them; but in the case of these settlements, we had revived or rather we had created, trade in slaves, when it had been altogether extinguished. It was the constant error that prevailed on this subject, and he remarked it in the Treaty before them, to speak of these practices, and to treat them as a traffic; whereas, in fact, it was nothing less than the seizing of an indefinite number of human beings, of both sexes, and all ages, by every species of fraud and force, and the carrying them away in a method which included within it the utmost intensity of suffering, from their parents, their children, their families, their friends, their country, conveying them to a distant land to pass the rest of their lives and their posterity for ever, in a state of degraded and hopeless slavery. To witness, therefore the revival of this dreadful evil, when to so great a degree he had conceived it was extinct, could not but fill his mind with the deepest grief and disappointment; and as for the stipulation, that the French themselves would join in abolishing the trade in five years, at the period of life to trade in five years, at the period of life to which he had arrived, with the experience he had gained, with the historical and diplomatic knowledge he had collected, he could not be at all sanguine in his hopes that this stipulation would actually take effect; and this not from any distrust he entertained personally of the head of the French monarchy, of whom, on the contrary, he was disposed personally to think very favourably. But if now, when the French had no capital engaged in the Slave Trade, not a ship, not a merchant, not a manufacturer, they yet cleaved so closely to this abhorred system, how much more must we fear that they would value and cling to it, when they would have so strong and manifest an interest in adhering to it, as in five years we must expect them to attain. It was not, however, to give vent to the feelings of an overloaded mind, Mr. W. said, that he had now
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risen, for in truth his feelings were far too deeply seated for him to be thus eased of them: but he rose chiefly to notice two particulars, to which he intreated his noble friend's immediate attention. The first respected the Treaty with Holland, which appeared to have been not yet concluded. If his noble friend could repose so much confidence in the French stipulation to abolish the Slave Trade after five years, he might be inclined to adopt the same principle of distant execution of an agreement to abolish, in the case of Holland also, and we might to her also surrender a great colony, which she would, for five years, be at liberty to cultivate with imported negroes. He enlarged a little on this topic, and expressed his earnest hopes that his noble friend would not then trust to any such distant speculation. The second particular to which he had alluded was the dreadful effects which would follow from fixing any certain number of years, during which the Slave Trade was to go on with out limitation, and at the end of which it was declared before-hand that it should altogether cease. What was this, but to encourage slave-traders to carry off, and planters to purchase, as vast a multitude of slaves as possible, while the opportunity of carrying off or of purchasing should continue to exist; and what was this, in plain terms, but a premium on robber and murder? what, but to encourage the desolating fury of this pest of society to rage with tenfold fury? Well, indeed on a similar occasion, had a passage of Holy Writ been applied, and with a most characteristic propriety of application both in point of matter and of manner—"Woe, woe, to the inhabitants of the earth; for the devil is come down in great wrath, knowing that his time is short." But his noble friend, Mr. W. was persuaded, could not but perceive the fatal consequences which must follow from the admission of this principle, and would be glad if it were possible to admit some modification of it, by limiting the total amount to tonnage which should be allowed, or the quantity of shipping, or the number of slaves which should be licensed to be imported into each particular colony. This, Mr. W. repeated, was a consideration of still more importance, because we had also surrendered to France her former settlements on the coast of Africa. Hence they would have unrestrained access to the African coast, and, alas! to that very part of it which our measures had happily

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exempted from the ravages of this cruel traffic; and now, just when the chieftains were beginning to open their eyes to their true interests—when the natives were beginning to awaken to the principles of an innocent and peaceful industry, all was to be undone, and again we were to endeavour to call forth their former savage appetites and practices; again to set nation against uation—village against village—family against family. When he considered the miseries that we were now about to renew, was it possible to regard them without the deepest emotions of sorrow? Still, as all this was known to his noble friend, he would not suppose that he could lightly or without what appeared to him the most imperious and almost irresistible necessity, set his hand to such a treaty. For his own part, indeed, he frankly declared no consideration could have induced him himself to consent to it, because it was doing evil that good might come; it was sacrificing an immense number of human beings, in a supposed hope, that at the end of a given period we should accomplish our object with the general consent of all parties. On that head, Mr. W. declared he had already said he scarcely durst be sanguine. Yet was there one consideration, one animating and gratifying object, on which, even now, he could look with great and unalloyed pleasure; for it was solacing and refreshing to the mind, when sickened by the view of low pursuits and mercenary interests, to be cheered by an exhibition of an opposite sort—to contemplate the dignified and generous in human character, the genial and beneficent in personal influence. He had already said with truth that he entertained a favourable opinion of the principles of the king of France; but he was now directing his view to the emperor of Russian—a man whose moral sublimity of conduct in grand and trying circumstances, even more than his military prowess, had excited a hope that he was to be regarded as the true hero the benefactor, not of Europe only, but of the human race. For surely, Mr. W. exclaimed, this great man would never debase his character, and blot his fair fame, by favouring the revival of a traffic of treachery and blood. Rather, he trusted, the emperor Alexander would exert himself the congress which was to be held in securing, if possible, the real execution of the stipulation for the termination of the Slave Trade after five years. Gladly, Mr. W. said, could
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he dwell on this more agreeable prospect though, after all, he durst not indulge such sanguine hopes of the real termination of the Stave Trade in five years. His noble friend must allow for his extreme regret, that when at length, after a laborious contention of so many years, he had seemed to himself in some degree in possession of the great object of his life—if then, when the cup was at his very lips, it was rudely dashed from them, for a term of years at least, if not for ever—heartily did he wish, that he might hereafter appear to have been too desponding. He would detain the House no longer, but be felt that it was urgently necessary to say what he had done without the least delay; and again be must press on his noble friend most strongly what he had already urged, concerning the extreme importance of applying some principles of limitation, as to the manner of carrying on the Slave Trade, to prevent the dreadful extent to which it must otherwise be carried, during the five bloody years, from the very declaration that it is then to cease forever. Only let him reflect on the dreadful consequences which would but too soon follow from the Treaty which was then before them; and let them consider, how cruelly severe was the fate of that unhappy continent; the cessation of war in this quarter of the globe, was only, to renew hostilities of a still more cruel and desolating character on the unoffending inhabitants of the African continent.
Lord Castlereaghobserved, that in point of order, he might decline discussing this interesting subject on the present occasion. But from respect to his hon. friend, who had so immortally distinguished himself in the great cause which he had undertaken, the abolition of the Slave Trade he would say a few words upon it. He sincerely trusted that, although the Treaty, as it regarded the abolition of that trade, was not so fortunate as to meet with his hon. friend's approbation, it would nevertheless prove a powerful instrument in the accomplishment of that great work in which his hon. friend had been so strenuous and successful a labourer. His hon. friend's feelings were perfectly natural, and he hoped that in his turn his hon. friend would do him (lord C.) the justice to recollect that, since a portion of the public authority had been place in his hands, be had not shown himself unmindful of his duty on the subject. As to the extension to the other ceded colonies

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of the principle which had accompanied the cessions to France, it must be recollected, that in Holland the deep apprehensions were not to be found which existed in the mind of the French nation with respect to their colonial commerce. But even as far as the French colonies were concerned, without anticipating the discussion on the subject, he could assure his hon. friend, that he acted under the strongest instructions from government at home, to make every possible effort to induce France to relinquish the traffic; and that, if be had relaxed in his demands upon that point, it was because he thought that to relax would be serviceable to the interests of the cause itself; and that to attempt to dictate to that great nation would be the most injurious course that could be pursued with respect to it. But although France was not bound by the Treaty to abolish the trade until after a certain time, he did not despair that before the arrival of that period, at which the prohibition of the trade would become mandatory on her subjects, she would, acting on a liberal and enlightened policy, mitigate the evils, or even accelerate the abandonment of the traffic. And he was convinced, that in confiding in the wisdom and discretion of that monarch who (to the blessing of Europe) now exercised a paternal sway in France, that he would gradually apply those means which his benevolence would suggest. We had acted a more gracious and a more useful part, than if we had ungenerously made use of any imperfect influence that we might possess, to force France to pursue an immediate policy repugnant to her views of her own interest. With respect to the cause itself, it could only be successful when all nations should cordially concur in the abolition; and in this view, it was a subject of pleasing contemplation that France had determined on the complete abolition at no very distant day. He could also assure his hon. friend, that his own wishes to see the abolition complete and universal, were not more ardent than he was enabled authoritatively to state were the wishes of the emperor of Russia. Such were also the feelings of the other two great monarchs—the emperor of Austria and the king of Prussia. And if there were difficulties in other countries, arising out of the peculiar circumstances of their condition; it was no unimportant consideration, that in any future we were sure of the support
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upon this subject of three great powers of Europe.
The Treaty was then laid on the table.
Lord Castlereaghmoved, that it should be taken into consideration on Friday se'night.
Lord Miltonexpressed his satisfaction at the observations which had been made by his hon. friend (Mr. Wilberforce), and trusted they would have their due weight. It was no great consolation to those who were lamenting that the Slave Trade would still be carried on by France, to be told that the emperors of Russia and Austria, and the king of Prussia, none of whose subjects could carry on the trade, were desirous that it should be abolished. He was far from thinking with the noble lord, that at the expiration of the five years France would with great facility relinquish this abominable traffic. If she felt indisposed to abandon it at a time when she reaped no commercial advantage from its existence, what would be her disposition when the extinct commerce of her colonies should begin to revive? He wished then to ask the noble lord and his Majesty's ministers, whether the non fulfilment on the part of France of the article in the Treaty, respecting the Slave Trade, would be considered by them as a sufficient cause for war with France? If they did not go that length, then the hopes entertained by the friends of the abolition were worse than nothing, and they were only lulled into an imaginary security that would soon be completely and miserably dissipated.
The Treaty was then ordered to be taken into consideration on Friday se'nnight.

CORN LAWS.
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that, in consideration of the number of Petitions which had been presented to the House against the proposed alteration of the Corn Laws, he should move to refer those Petitions to the consideration of a select committee, with the intention and hope, that if the committee could make their report in due time, some legislative measure might be founded upon it in the course of the present session; and he should propose that it be an instruction to the committee, to examine how far the prices fixed by the 44th of George 3, for regulating the importation of foreign corn, were a protection to the growers of corn in this country; and if not, what provisions were in their judgment

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necessary, in order to secure the interests of agriculture.
On the motion being put for referring the Petitions to a committee,
Mr. W. Smithobserved, that he had voted for the proposition made on the first agitation of the subject, to refer the consideration of it to a committee; and that his reasons were, tenfold stronger than they were at the period, for the appointment of a committee. If he opposed the motion of the right hon. gentleman, therefore, it was because he was persuaded that no report of a committee, made in the present session, or measure founded upon such report, would have a fair chance of giving satisfaction to the public. Fully persuaded of this, and fully persuaded also that the postponement of the consideration of the subject to another session, would be no serious injury to any class of the people, he should vote against the motion. Far, however, was he from doing this under the apprehension that any violence would be suffered by the House, or by any individual member, in consequence of any perseverance in the measures which they might think it expedient to adopt. He had presented a petition that evening against the proposed alteration, signed by 12,000 persons, 7,000 of whom had actually assembled to prepare it: all of whom felt that the projected measure would very sensibly and injuriously affect their interests—but this feeling did not produce any riotous or disorderly conduct. They behaved themselves in the most correct and moderate manner; and it certainly was due to those who had so demeaned themselves, to pay a proper attention to their request, and to give a little more consideration to the subject than it could receive in the present session. Much had been said of the means taken to procure petitions. In the populous city which be represented (Norwich) be could answer for the fact, that but one opinion existed on the measure which had been introduced, and no means whatever were resorted to for the purpose of exciting the expression of popular feeling. He knew that persons of all parties and descriptions, the richest and, the poorest, the best and the worst informed, these who were the most likely, and those who were the most likely, to be affected by the measure, were unanimously of opinion, that it ought not to be proceeded in till next session of parliament—He would not pledge himself as to the
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vote he should give, if the consideration of the subject were deferred—because it was impossible to foresee the nature of the proposition that would be brought forward; but they now had it in their power either to give satisfaction or dissatisfaction to the country by the course they adopted; and he thought it was the duty of that House, in return for the moderation displayed by the people, to attend to their representations.
Mr. Westernsaid, in the present state of the public mind, the motion of the right hon. gentleman appeared to be very proper. Whether the committee determined that a Bill should be introduced this session, or that it should be postponed to the next, he thought it ought to be appointed; in the hope that a report might be made, calculated to give satisfaction to the country. He regretted the warm feelings which had been excited among the people, in consequence of the erroneous opinions they had been induced to adopt; and he could not help saying, that the mode in which the question had been discussed, both in and out of that House, had forced them into the situation in which they at present stood. The mode to which he alluded was, the constant assumption, as an incontrovertible principle, that the system recommended by the corn committee must necessarily raise the price of bread.—That assumption had pervaded the whole speech of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Rose), whose entire chain of reasoning was founded on it The right hon. gentleman must feel that he had assumed the question in that way which best suited his own argument, He had not only maintained, that the measures proposed by the committee would raise the price of bread and beer, but he had stated the exact advance which would take place if their resolutions were adopted. Now it was extraordinary, that a gentleman so well versed as he was in the corn laws should have argued in this manner. He could not deny, that; for 68 years, during which there was an actual prohibition of the importation of grain, corn was cheaper than it had been at any time before or since. He took the prices from the pamphlet of the right hon. gentleman, and, comparing them with those which preceded and followed the period he alluded to, found them considerably more moderate than either the one or the other. If the question were to be debated on the principle,

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than no other intention existed but that of enhancing the price of corn, if such an idea were to go forth to the country, it must necessarily inflame the public mind—while every measure that tended to the persecution of the farmer was sure to be popular—and yet such measures ever had, and ever would have, the ultimate effect of making bread dear. Suppose a member got up in that House, and said. "I will introduce a Bill to prevent the price of the quartern loaf ever exceeding 6½d. or 6d." A more popular measure than this could not be devised; but those who opposed it, however just and correct their arguments might be, would immediately be censured by the unthinking for an attempt to keep up the price of corn and bread.—There were many gentlemen in that House, who thought that a free trade ought to exist with respect to grain; but, if they were to converse with the petititioners against the measure, would they be able to persuade them, that the exportation of corn would tend to make it cheap? Certainly they would not; for the subject was better calculated to excite prejudice and passion, than to elicit calm reasoning. But, when it was absolutely proved, that, for 68 years, during which exportation was allowed and importation forbidden, the price of corn was lower than at any former or subsequent period, how could it be argued, that the measures proposed by the committee would have the effect of always keeping up grain as high as the importing price? He hoped the committee, if the House agreed to the motion, would not be formed of those members who were appointed on the last. It would, he thought, be more agreeable to the feelings of all parties, if the committee were entirely new.—He was convinced, the more the question was discussed, the more it would be found that the resolutions which the former committee had agreed to, were calculated to conduce to the general benefit of the country. Those who supported the alterations in the existing law were charged with not having sufficiently investigated the subject, and with not having laid the necessary information before the House. He was one of those who thought the information necessary to guide the legislature on a subject of this sort, was not very extensive. If the House were of opinion that they ought to give some protection to the agricultural interest, he knew not how they could determine what that protection
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ought to be, except by examining the prices of corn for a certain time. If, for instance, they selected a space of 20 years, and examined the price of corn, and its effects on the general prosperity of the empire, for that time; this, he conceived, was the true way of forming a judgment as to what the protecting price ought to be.
Mr. D. Brownespoke in favour of granting a fair protection to the agricultural interest. It had been argued, by those who opposed an alteration in the corn laws, that, if the farmer were dissatisfied with his profits, he might expend his capital on some other object. This was the worst argument that could be used—such a system would have the effect of changing the agricultural, into manufacturing, labourers—which, in his opinion, would be most prejudicial to the country. He would not say, that manufactures had been carried too far, but he thought they had been carried quite far enough. Every class in the country, no matter of what description, instead of opposing, ought to unite in protecting the interests of agriculture.
Mr. Rosesaid, when an hon. friend of his (Mr. Bankes) made a motion, on a former night, that a committee should be appointed for the purpose of enquiring whether any inconvenience would be suffered by the public, if no measure were adopted on the subject of the corn laws during the present session, he cheerfully concurred in it—because on that point, he wished the House to be satisfied. But to the motion just submitted to the House by his right hon. friend, he had an insuperable objection—for he did not think it was possible that the committee could so investigate the subject, as to produce a satisfactory report within the period to which the right hon. gentleman had alluded. It could not be so easily examined as the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bankes) seemed to imagine. The arduous and difficult point to be discussed was, what the protecting price should be; and, when it was recollected, that on this part of the subject no less than seven or eight sets of propositions had been drawn up, it was very evident that it would not be speedily adjusted. The hon. gentleman had observed, that it only required the average prices of corn for the last 20 years to guide the committee in their decision—but there were so many interests connected with the subject, that the committee could not, consistently

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with their duty, confine themselves to so contracted an examination.
Mr. Westernreplied, and insisted that, on former occasions, when the importation price was highest, the market price of corn was lowest.
Mr. Long Wellesleyexpressed himself in favour of the motion. He hoped the committee would inform themselves completely of the losses which the farmers were now sustaining. That useful and meritorious class of men were at present placed in a situation of great difficulty, from which it was most advisable that no time should be lost in extricating them. He had given his support to the measure introduced for altering the corn laws, because he thought it would bear less severely on the lower classes, than those propositions, which, in consequence of the evils produced by delay, they might hereafter be called on to entertain. With respect to the clamour out of doors, he felt it a heavy misfortune, that any man, standing in his situation, should be accused of acting from sordid motives; yet such was the charge advanced against them. It was said, that the object of the great landed proprietors was, to keep up exorbitant rents. But when the House were acquainted with the situation of the farmer, he would pledge his existence, it would be seen, that the rents bore no proportion to the heavy taxes they were obliged to pay. If this should be the case, be trusted the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Rose) would, in his candour, come forward and declare, that he was mistaken in his statement on that point.
Mr. Roseutterly and absolutely denied that he had ever made any accusation, or used any expression, that even tended to cast a reproach on the landed proprietors. He should be glad to know of the hon. gentleman, who spoke with so much confidence, when and where this accusation was made.
Mr. Long Wellesleysaid, the right hon. gent. had observed, in his pamphlet, that an advantage would be derived by the landed proprietors from the measure—and he believed he used the same language in that House. If his ears had not deceived him, the right hon. gentleman had said, that the consequence of the measure would be, to keep up exorbitant rents—an expression which was also contained in his pamphlet. Now, he was convinced the rents were not exorbitant; and, if he were examined before the committee, he would prove it.
Mr. Rosedesired the hon. gentleman to point out any passage in the pamphlet that bore him out in the assertion he had made. It was true, the expression "exorbitant rents" was there—[Here, hear, from Mr. Wellesley.]—He (Mr. Rose) wished the hon. gentleman would hear him. Those words were not given as his—they were in the mouth of Mr. Curwen, one of the greatest agriculturists of the country. The hon. gentleman ought to have read the speech a little more attentively, before he made any observation on it.
Mr. J. P. Grantwas sorry the right hon. gentleman's present commentary had not accompanied the publication of his pamphlet; if it had, it would have prevented a very general misconception which had existed. He did not impute to the right hon. gentleman an intention to bring a direct charge against the landholders, that their only object was to raise their rents, or keep up exorbitant rents, at the expence of the poor; or against the gentlemen who promoted the measure proposed, that their only object was to raise the price of bread; but this was the inference that had been drawn, and not very unnaturally drawn, from certain passages in his pamphlet, by great numbers of people. Had it not been for arguments like these, the number of petitions on the table would have been greatly diminished. He rose chiefly, having formerly voted against the committee proposed by an hon. gentleman (Mr. Bankes), and meaning now to vote for the committee proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to explain the motives of his conduct. He hoped he was incapable of having his mind biased, in the slightest degree whatever, by any popular clamour. He was convinced that no person in that House was capable of being so biased. They would very ill discharge their duty to the people, if they were induced by any consideration to act contrary to their deliberate opinion in a matter in which the interest of the people was so deeply concerted. And in this question, of all others, the people were the most apt to be misled by their passions, and the false reasoning held out to them. But he thought it also the duty of the legislature to carry with them, if possible, the opinion of the people; being convinced, that no measure could be carried into beneficial execution, unless the opinion of the people went along with it. He had voted against the committee formerly proposed, because he understood

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the object of it to be, to inform the House; and he was of opinion, that the great majority of the House was already sufficiently informed on the subject. He voted for the present committee, because the object was to inform the public; and so thoroughly was he convinced that the tendency of this measure was the reverse of what was supposed, that it tended to cheapen bread to the poor, that he thought the more it was discussed the better. He had no doubt that, if it were discussed fully, but dispassionately, without the introduction, even through inadvertence, of expressions calculated to mislead and inflame, it would appear, to the entire satisfaction of every individual in the country, to be established not only by just reasoning, but by the yet more unerring test of experience, that the measures of regulation formerly so long and so successfully adopted, and now again proposed, are directly calculated to lower the price of bread to the poor, to secure to the labourer a constant and plentiful supply, to advance the interest of the manufacturer, at the same time with that of the landholder, and consequently of the whole community.
Mr. Prestonwas of opinion, that the landed interest ought to be kept at a fair par with the other branches of the community. It was impossible that the prices of agricultural produce, and the rent of land, could fall to what they were before the war, while every other article had sustained a proportionable increase. The grower of corn ought to have such encouragement as to induce him to raise the supply of food necessary for the consumption of the country; and it was well ascertained, that this country could grow a sufficiency of corn for its own subsistence.
Sir Charles Burrellsaid, it was incumbent on the legislature of a great country like this, to take equal care of the interests of all classes of individuals. A clamour, in many instances certainly very unnecessary, had been raised against the measure before the House; but if the amount of the taxes and burdens on agriculture were fairly taken into consideration, that clamour he had no doubt would be done away. The assessed taxes, property tax, and poor's rates, no doubt, weighed on all classes of the community; but there were some taxes which were borne exclusively by the agricultural class, and were direct taxes on husbandry. The tax on husbandry horses was of this description, and
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was most oppressive in its operation. The tax on malt was an indirect tax on agriculture; and its operation on it was even more severe than the property tax. It was brought forward as a war tax by Mr. Pitt; and he believed the tax was much heavier than the value of the produce on which it was laid. While all these circumstances weighed on the farmer, it was impossible for him to afford produce at the price which it bore before the war. He hoped that in the course of the committee matters would be considered fairly, and that gentlemen would not allow themselves to be led away by a vain clamour or a temporary popularity.
Lord A. Hamiltonapprehended that any discussion upon the measure would now be superfluous. He felt himself now bound to oppose the committee, because he considered that no effective measure could result from their labours, and be carried through parliament, during the present session. The committee would have to order different persons to attend upon them for examination, and to enter on different enquiries. In what time, then, he would ask, could it be supposed to finish its labours? Not, surely, at the very soonest, in less than three weeks. The discussion of the measure which their labours might give rise to, would, at least, take up three weeks or a month more; and at the end of July, they would be able to send up a Bill to the House of Lords. The House was in some degree in an awkward situation. He should be sorry to encourage the notion, that the House had been determined either by the number of petitions, or the clamour out of doors. But, on the other hand, he could not consent to vote for a proposition which he considered as hopeless for the object which; it had in view. His former understanding of this matter was, that the measure was to be put off to next session, but he now understood that something was expected to be carried through in the present. Before be could make up his mind as to what might be considered a fair encouragement to the agriculturist, he should wish to hear something from the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer) respecting the duration of the war taxes and property tax, and the period at which we might expect to see our currency restored to its former state. The law, as it now stood, would place the country in a different situation in this respect in the course of a few months.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerthought it would be premature at present, to determine whether any measure would or would not follow the labours of the committee during the present session. They ought to wait for the report of the committee, before deciding upon this point. For the protection of our agriculture, it would be necessary that a Bill of some kind or other should be passed. But he did not think it probable that the report of the committee would be laid before them in time to admit of a Bill being carried through both Houses of Parliament during the present session.
Mr. Henry Thorntonobserved, that the words of the motion were certainly open to the observations of the noble lord behind him (lord A. Hamilton). The committee were not only to report facts and to deliver opinions, but to instruct the House what Bill ought afterwards to be brought in. They were to state to the House what they considered as a fair protection to agriculture, and what measures were likely to lead to its future extension. The House ought not to delegate so important a trust to a committee of their number; as there was no individual who was not already pledged to one side or the other. The committee ought rather to sit for the purpose of informing them more fully on different points which at present require elucidation; and the measure ought to be put off for another session.
Mr. Phillipssaid, if the committee was merely to direct its attention to the scale regulating the duty on importation, he would certainly oppose it. He thought the dangers which were apprehended from a free trade were altogether without foundation. This country was supplied with most manufactures cheaper than any other; the agriculturist was not therefore placed in a disadvantageous situation, in comparison with the corn-growers of other Countries. It was said, that a free trade would draw capital from agriculture to commerce; but the accumulations of commerce had a natural tendency to seek that security in land which land alone could afford them. Land derived the greatest benefit from commerce. They had as vet no information as to the state of prices on the continent. They ought to know whether we could bear foreign competition in our own markets. Even at the present moment the Irish importer could more than brave foreign competition here; for he could afford to sell corn cheaper than we could import it from Dantzic, Hamburgh, and Konigsburg.
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Notwithstanding the large importations from Ireland, the agriculture of this country had continued to flourish. They had lately passed a Bill for allowing a freedom of exportation. This implied, that the farmers of this country possessed the power of bearing competition in foreign markets. Yet by the Bill now before the House it was implied, that our farmer could not bear foreign competition in our own markets. The Irish had peculiar advantages over the natives of this country; they had no income-tax and no poors-rates. One would think, therefore, that permitting importation from Ireland would rum the agriculture of Great Britain; but yet it was found that our agriculture had been going on regularly increasing. He could not think that this limitation now wished for would be ultimately advantageous to the landed interest; for if a free trade in grain were to be allowed, it would lead to an improvement of our general commerce. This increase of commerce would give rise to an increase of national wealth, and consequently an increase of population, which in the end would afford an additional encouragement to agriculture. This free trade would, therefore, in reality, be most beneficial to the landed interest. Where the effects of commerce were most seen tri this country, there the rents of land would be found higher than any where else. It had been said, that it was of importance to us to have an independent supply of grain. But could any other country be averse to sending corn to the country which abounded most in capital, and which, possessed the most valuable articles for returning cargoes? Whenever this country wanted corn, it had always been supplied with it, notwithstanding that most extraordinary confederacy which we had lately witnessed. But nothing could be more ill-judged, than to prevent an extension of trade for the sake of an apprehension of a measure which, under circumstances the most favourable for such an object, never could be accomplished. A great panic had certainly seized the agricultural part of the community, and a panic had also seized the commercial part. Commerce, as might have been foreseen on the conclusion of a peace, was seeking out new channels, which occasioned considerable embarrassment in trade. They were not, however, on that account to endeavour to keep up the prices of our manufactures; yet by a parity of reasoning, manufactures were as well entitled to such assistance as

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grain was. For these reasons, he should be glad to vote for a committee, if it were to sit merely for the purpose of furnishing them with information on the subject, and not to come to any decision itself.
Mr. Huskissonsaid, every subject alluded to by the hon. gentleman would, as the motion was shaped, come before the committee; for the first reference to that committee was, that of all the petitions on the table on the subject of the corn laws. In some of these petitions the freedom of trade was surely introduced. He hoped, therefore, that the hon. gentleman would give his vote for the committee. He would state the reasons why he supported the present motion for a committee, though he objected to the appointment of a committee on a former occasion. He believed now, as he did then, that there was no probability of any importation of corn into this country before the next harvest. The only circumstance which varied his view was, that of the number of petitions which had been presented to the House. The views of these petitioners, even if founded in misrepresentation, although they ought not to induce any member to do that which he was not convinced was just and proper, were still entitled to the most respectful consideration of the House. Although the petitions were in many instances the result of malevolent and mistaken appeals to the feelings of the people, they ought to be met by temperate inquiry and the fullest investigation. The circumstance of such number of petitions, therefore, afforded a ground for those who were favourable to the measure, to support the present inquiry; for the object of these petitions was, not to make any alteration in the corn laws, or to make no alteration in them without further inquiry. With respect to the encouragement which ought to be afforded to the farmer, it should be considered, that there was now a great diminution in the value of money; and that the capital necessary for carrying on of farming operations must now be double to what it was before the war. The noble lord (lord A. Hamilton) deceived himself, therefore, if he thought that things could return to what they were before the war. This was one of the most dangerous errors that could be entertained. What was likely to be the permanent charge of this country now that the war was at an end? The whole expences of this country, including all our establishments before the war, only amounted to 16 millions. He
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could not anticipate what part of our present establishments would be now kept up; but whatever they might be, he believed that our peace establishment must entail on us a permanent charge, of nearer 60 than 50 millions. Would this produce no alteration in the money value of articles? When gentlemen talked of the increased price of bread, was not every thing else raised in proportion; and that not in consequence of the high price of bread, but the amount of taxation? It was impossible for the country to return to the prices before the war. It had been said, that the obvious remedy was, to lower the rents. He had not the good fortune to be landholder, and he had no interest but that of the public in general in view. The proportion of the gross proceed of land, which now came to the landlord, however it might be represented in money, was now much less than what it was in 1792. Previous to the war, in a farm of moderate, extent, the farmer considered himself requited if he made three rents from it. But it was necessary in the case of such a farm now that the farmer should make at least five rents to be enabled to go on. If even the whole rental of the country were remitted, it would, be impossible to return to the prices before the war. He was not afraid to declare, that the people of this country must not expect, be the law on the subject what it may, that, with our burthens, the price of bread can ever be less than double what it was before the war. With respect to the next harvest, it was in the hands of Providence, and he trusted that it would be as plentiful as the last; but in the year, following this, the farmer ought to know what chances he had of being protected or ruined in the enterprises in which he was engaged. With a view, therefore, to satisfy the opponents of the measure, and also to give hopes to the agriculturist, he thought it would be desirable to proceed to the committee.
Mr. Broadheadsaw no occasion for any interference to protect the agricultural interest. Competition caused the manufacturer to send his articles into the market at the lowest rate; but there was no such cause that operated on the landholder.
Colonel Wood, having presented a petition against the Bill on this subject now before the House, from a large body of manufacturers employed in the iron trade, in Wales, wished to state why be assented to the motion for the appointment of a

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committee. He did so, not from any desire that their labours might be unavailing, nor from any expectation that they would recommend any thing like the Bill now before the House; but, if the committee should, contrary to his expectation, recommend any such measure for the adoption of parliament, he was satisfied it would be much more palatable coming from a committee so appointed, than it would be, if to be passed by the House, with no information on the subject besides that which they now possessed. He thought there was no protection necessary for the grower of corn; but if there must be same protection afforded to him, let it be on those kinds of grain from which bread was not produced. Let there be a total prohibition as to the importation of barley and oats; and as to wheat, only when it reached a particular price.
Sir W. Curtiswas sorry to hear invidious comparisons between the manufacturing and the agricultural interests. He thought they were best supported when the two stood together. He thought the appointment of a committee a very salutary proposition, and felt regret that the House had proceeded to such a length in the Bill now before them, without having availed themselves of the information which they were thence likely to-derive. Why should they now be pretending to legislate, without knowing what the real price of any one thing which they purposed to regulate, was?
Mr. Canningheartily concurred in the view of the matter taken by the worthy baronet (Curtis). If the proposition of his right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was meant to serve as an instrument for ultimately expediting the Bill now before the House, he (Mr. Canning) should vote against the appointment of a committee; though he confessed he should feel greatly embarrassed in doing so; as it most appear strange out of doors, that with such a mass of petitions on their table asking of them not to proceed without farther information on the subject, they should wish to shut their eyes against such information as they could obtain. After the explanation, however, which his right hon. friend had given on this subject, and after being told, that it was not meant to pledge the House to proceed on the report in the course of the present session, unless there should seem to be a necessity for, so doing, he thought that sending the matter to a committee
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was probably, the most natural way of disposing of the subject. He was of opinion, however, that the way of wording the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was objectionable, in as far as it went to have it supposed that every thing except the scale was settled—a thing to which be could by no means assent. He undoubtedly agreed, that the only new circumstance in the case was, the immense number of petitions which had been presented, But he asked, was not that quite enough—not indeed to throw the House round, and to compel them to abandon a measure which they were satisfied was highly beneficial to the country; but to induce them to pause, and see what they could do to allay the alarms and quiet the agitated feelings of the people? Last year the committee appointed was a committee to consider the petitions which had been presented on the subject of the importation and exportation of corn, and the duties on it. Why, he asked, should not the House adopt that precise form now, at least as to the importation of corn? With respect to the exportation of corn, on that subject the Bill had already passed that House. A report coming from a committee, so appointed would have the effect of removing all the errors, if errors they were, which at present pervaded the public mind, and of showing that there was no indisposition on the part of the House to attend even to exaggerated views of supposed evils when duly represented to them. These were his views of this subject. He should be sorry to move an amendment to the motion of his right hon. friend; but hoped he would consent to generalize the question. He would not go the length of asking of his right hon. friend to pledge himself that nothing should be done in the matter during the present session. That would, probably, be to ask too much of his right hon. friend; but, if it should be understood that on this point every one was to be entitled, afterwards, to judge for himself, he (Me. Canning) should be perfectly satisfied.
Sir J. Newportobserved, that the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down had been pleased to say, that he would not ask of the Chancellor of the Exchequers to pledge himself, that nothing farther should be done in the matter during the present session; while, at the same time, be proposed to make the enquiry into which the committee were to go, so broad and extended

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in its nature, that it would be quite impossible for them to come to an end of their labours, in such time that any measure could result from them during the present session. If this should turn out to be so, and the House were again called next year to act on the report which might be made to them by the committee now to be appointed, would not a similar objection to that now made be again started?—And would not the House be once more told that they were wholly without information on the subject?—Would they not be told that when that report was made Europe was in a state which no longer existed, and that another reference to a committee was necessary?—He submitted, however, that the House was called on to legislate on general principles, and not to adopt a permanent system, on local, fleeting, and varying circumstances. To proceed now to appoint a committee, would only be to keep the public mind uselessly afloat. The greater part of the petitions now on the table, he was satisfied had been procured at the instigation of persons interested in foreign corn, for their own advantage, without any reference whatever to the good of the people, who had, through misrepresentation and ignorance, been induced to put their names to them—people who were easily worked upon by the cry of bread at 6d. the quartern loaf, and who would grasp at an immediate relief of that kind though at the expence of paying 18 d. for it within the next eighteen months.
Mr. Baringcould not bear to hear the great, and, in many instances, respectable, body of petitioners now before the House on the subject of the corn laws, treated in so undeserved a manner. They were said to be ignorant on the subject as to which they had petitioned the House. There was no where, however, he ventured to affirm, more false information on this subject to be found than in the learned papers which the committee of last year had laid before the House in their report. All the petitioners wanted was, not to see laws established which should cause them to pay for their bread more than was necessary. It was said, that the Bill before the House would be beneficial, in as far as it would have the effect of making the price of bread steady. Now, he could not see that it would have this effect. Steady prices were never produced by restriction. Apply the doctrine of restriction to any one county in England, and it would be
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found that the doing so would not have the effect of steadying the prices in that particular county; on the contrary, the bread would be alternately high and low, according as there was a good or a bad harvest in that particular spot; deprived, as it would be, of intercourse with the rest of the kingdom. As the whole of England was to any particular county in England, in this respect, such exactly was the whole of Europe as to England. The evident effect of restrictions of this kind was, that ingenious artizans and mechanics would go abroad, and would settle where they could get cheap bread. His object was, to get rid of the question entirely for this session of parliament; and if any proposition was made to that effect, it should have his support.
Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Bating mutually explained.
Mr. Barhamwas favourable to the proposed alteration in the corn laws as to importation; being satisfied that, instead of raising the price of bread, it would have exactly the contrary effect. He should vote against the committee, because he thought the best way was to abandon the measure; when the people would soon become sensible of what they had lost, and would find that they themselves had brought down the evil upon their own heads.
Mr. P. Moorethought the best mode of proceeding would be, according to the prayer of all the petitions, to postpone the matter till the next session of parliament. His object and that of his constituents was, to see what the effect of the instrument which the noble lord (Castlereagh) had that night laid before the House (the Definitive Treaty of Peace) would be against next session. Ministers would have time to look about them, and to see to what extent our burdens could be alleviated; and landlords also might have time to enter into arrangements with their tenants.
Lord Comptonapproved of the appointment of the committee; thinking it proper that the country should become independent of foreign aid in so essential an article as that of bread.
The Chancellor of the Exchequeragreed to the alteration, as to the wording of his motion, suggested by Mr. Canning. If it could be supposed that the motion as he proposed originally to word it, could have had the effect of fettering the committee, that was a sufficient reason why it ought to be altered. As to pledging himself

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that the measure should not be again taken up during the present, session, he could not consent to give any pledge of the kind. Every gentleman, however, would be at liberty to think as he pleased on this part of the subject.
Sir C. Monckwas surprised to hear it contended, that the House had no information on the subject now under consideration. Had they not, the statute that hod been passed on the subject? And had they not also all the quarterly average prices of the maritime districts, as they had been published quarterly? Were they not all on the table?
Mr. Lockhartwas for the committee; in the hope that no measure would follow upon the subject during the present session of parliament.
Mr. Rosewould rather that the matter were entirely postponed to the next session, as there might in the mean, time be
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a change of circumstances. He should not oppose the committee, upon the understanding that no further step should be taken during the present session.
The gallery was then cleared for a division; when the numbers were—Ayes 173; Noes 67.
Strangers continued to be excluded from the gallery; but we understood, that upon the order of the day being read for taking into further consideration the Report on the Corn Laws,
The Chancellor of the Exchequermoved, That the said Report should be taken into further consideration that day three weeks; and general, Gascoigne moved as an Amendment, That it should be taken into consideration that day six months; upon which the House again divided; when the numbers were—Ayes 116; Noes 106. Majority 10.
The Bill was therefore lost.

CORN LAWS.
The duke of Rutland, the earl of Lonsdale, lord Bulkeley, lord Boringdon, and others, presented petitions from Sutherland, Derby, Plymouth, and other places, against the Corn Laws Bills.—The duke of Sussex presented two Petitions to the same effect from Without and Within, in the city of London. These were laid on the
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table; some of them signed by about 6,000 persons.
Earl Stanhope, some time afterwards, rose for the purpose of presenting a number of petitions against the proposed ateration of the Corn Laws. He presented them with great pleasure to their lordships' consideration, because he was convinced that the intended measure on this subject was absurd—it was far from being well considered—it was unfounded in its principle, and would be injurious in its consequences. It was calculated to raise the price of provisions, and consequently, to increase the price of labour; and then their lordships ought to calculate the injury which such a system would do to the manufacturer of the country, who would thereby be disabled from coming at a moderate rate into the market. Besides, their lordships should reflect, that if our manufactures were enhanced by the high price of provisions and of labour, steam-engines would be set to work in other countries; and even the most able workmen here, who had brought our manufactures to such a prosperous state, would be induced to go abroad, and then our manufactures would no longer come into competition with those of foreign nations. If our manufactures were thus injured, our commerce would be injured also;—and if our commerce were to be injured, we should lose the only foundation upon which rest the strength and glory of our navy. That this would be the effect of the intended system, was obvious; and that the price of labour would be high in proportion to the price of provisions, was incontrovertible.—(Hear, hear! from the earl of Lauderdale.)—Said lord Stanhope, "the noble lord near me may cry Hear, hear! but though I cannot comment upon his speech, because he has not made any, I can comment upon his book, where he has delivered his sentiments." In referring to the arguments of those who recommended this measure of raising the price of bread, one point laid down by them was, that if free importation were permitted, it would discourage the growth of corn in this country; and then if it should happen that, when we had not got a field of corn of our own, foreign countries should take the advantage of our situation, and stop the importation, we should be immediately reduced to a state of famine, and consequently be ruined. It was, however, not his intention to lose sight of certain provisions which would protect

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us from such a dreadful situation as to apprehend a famine from our dependence on foreign countries. — But there was a mode which would avoid the evils of both these extremities; for whatever were the taxes to be retained, let those which affect the price of provisions be taken off, and then the farmer would be able to sell his corn in defiance of the importation. He saw the noble earl in the red coat over the way (the earl of Liverpool being dressed in his uniform as lord warden of the Cinque Ports) who was now our commander in chief; and he was sorry to hear that it was his intention, and that of ministers, to continue the property-tax; though, perhaps, not the whole ten per cent. yet a very considerable portion of it. Why they should be induced to do so, he knew not, but understood the noble earl had a great liking for that tax, and could not bear to give it up altogether. At the same time, there were other taxes, such as the assessed taxes on carriages, horses, &c. which were to be taken off. Now these were the very taxes which ought to be continued. — "But, take; away," said earl Stanhope, "the taxes; from the poor; take away the taxes from the price of provisions, the taxes which affect the price of bread and of beer; take away that most odious of taxes, the tax on candles, the tax on soap, the tax on salt, and all those taxes which fall upon the poor and industrious bees of the community." The noble earl, in conclusion, again adverted to the prayer of these Petitions, which only desired that the proposed system might be delayed for the present session of parliament. He accordingly presented several Petitions from different parishes in London and its vicinity, which were ordered to be read.
The Earl of Lauderdalecould not, in justice to the merits of this subject, permit the observations of the noble earl to pass without some remarks, even upon the present occasion. It was not his intention to state his sentiments at length; but he would venture to say, that when the measure to which the noble lord had alluded came under their consideration, he should be able to shew that some of the propositions he laid down this night were, instead of being incontrovertible, completely absurd. The noble earl had, in the outset of his statement, intimated, that the measure was one intended by those who proposed it to raise the price of bread, and to do injury to the poor. He
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(lord Lauderdale) would take upon himself to declare, there was not a man in either House of Parliament who had any such intention. The measure was intended to moderate the price, and in its effect he had no hesitation in saying it would lower the price. The noble earl had laid down a proposition which was wholly unfounded in its principle. The price of labour had nothing to do with that of provisions; when provisions had been low, the price of labour had been high. The noble earl (Lauderdale) stated, that the measure now proposed had been justified by experience in former years, and he adverted to the effect which had been derived from two systems of an opposite description; and there a provision, upon the principle of the intended alteration, was attended with a beneficial result.
Earl Stanhopewas not inclined to differ with the noble earl who had just sat down, and had stated, that one of the observations he made was an absurd one; for he (earl S.) had never uttered it; but the noble earl (Lauderdale) having no such windmills of his (earl S.), he had created windmills of his own, for the purpose of combating them. He had never changed any set of men with the intention of increasing the price of bread, and injuring the poor; but their measure would have that effect, and they had blundered into it. The noble earl had also contended, that the price of labour had nothing to do with that of provisions. His argument was for an inverse ratio, that the lower the price of provisions the higher would be that of labour. He might go on; but that was inexplicable to his mind. As to the different systems he had alluded to, one of them was tried when there was scarcely any national debt; but that made a wide difference in respect to the present times, when the country was loaded with an enormous debt, and had to support the interest by taxes.
The Petitions were then severally ordered to lie on the table.

TREATY OF PEACE.
The earl of Liverpool, by the command of his royal highness the Prince Regent, presented to the House a copy of the Treaty entered into between his Royal Highness on the part of his Britannic Majesty, and his most Christian Majesty the King of France. He moved, "That this Treaty be taken into, consideration on Thursday se'nnight, and

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that the Lords be summoned for that day."
Lord Grenvillesaid, he could not suffer this very first opportunity to pass, without stating that it was with the utmost grief and indignation he had read that part of the Treaty in question which related to the abolition of the Slave-Trade. When he recollected the unanimous acquiescence of that House in a proposition which he had the honour to submit to their lordships upon the subjects—when he recollected the universal consent of almost all nations, that it was most desirable to prevent the continuance of that most abominable and disgraceful traffic—when he considered that it had been relinquished by all the nations of Europe, upon the common principles of justice and religion, as a high crime, and as a practice which should be radically done away with—what must be his astonishment and regret, his grief and disappointment, upon reading the article that morning to which he alluded! He trusted, however, it would be a matter of speedy and serious consideration, whether there might not be even yet some mode in which parliament, or their lordships, might act in pursuance of their unanimous resolution, with a view to the attainment of its object.
The Earl of Liverpoolfelt a degree of reluctance in troubling their lordships at the present moment with any observations on any topic connected with the Treaty just laid before them; but he could not avoid assuring the noble baron, that he was quite mistaken, if he supposed that his Majesty's ministers did not feel, on this particular subject, as much anxiety and solicitude as he could, to effect the completion of the great object in question; he meant the universal abolition of the Slave Trade; for they were sensible, whatever difference of opinion might have formerly obtained with regard to a partial abolition, yet that point being once decided, they felt it essential to the principle upon which it proceeded, that the abolition should become universal. With regard to the particular article referred to, and the circumstances under which it was concluded, he meant not at present to observe; but he would request their lordships to postpone their judgments until they had an opportunity of fully hearing the sentiments of his Majesty's government upon the subject.