Sitting of 18 December 1812

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE FOR RELIEF TO THE INHABITANTS OF RUSSIA.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, to which the Message of the Prince Regent respecting the invasion of Russia was referred. The Message being read,
The Chancellor of the Exchequerthen said, that had it not been for some intimations of intended opposition which the reading of the Message had produced last night, he should have left the question ha was about to propose to be decided by the

325
unbiassed judgment and feelings of the House, with scarcely any attempt at observation. He still hoped that four-and-twenty-hours reflection might have convinced the gentlemen from whom those intimations proceeded, of the propriety of the measure recommended by his Royal Highness; and in that hope he should trespass but a short time on the attention of the committee, and avoid as much as possible every topic upon which a difference of opinion could be entertained, because he felt that nothing could add so much to the grace and dignity of the proceeding, or stamp so much value on the gift which it was proposed to bestow, as its being sanctioned by the unanimous voice of the Commons of the United Kingdom.
He first felt himself bound to give some account of the particular time at which the measure was proposed, because some gentlemen had spoken of it as a surprize upon the House, and appeared to think that it was on that account objectionable. It was, indeed, in one sense, a surprize, not only upon the House, but upon his Majesty's ministers; for it arose out of events which could not have been anticipated, and the intelligence of which had but just reached this country; events of the most important and gratifying, yet, in some respects, of the most melancholy nature. While the enemy remained upon the Russian territory it was obvious that no relief of the kind now proposed could have been afforded; because it could neither have been administered with certainty, nor enjoyed in security. But we have now the satisfaction to know, that the French armies have been driven with discomfiture and disgrace from the limits of the Russian empire. This, he hoped, would sufficiently account for the grant not being proposed at an earlier season, and he thought it would be obvious to every gentleman that it could not be delayed, without losing the grace and merit of a spontaneous gift, and sacrificing the dignity of the House, whom it became rather to lead than to follow the impulse of public opinion: for he was convinced that, if parliament were even for a few days to hesitate, the feelings of the people of this country would be so excited as to break out in some voluntary acts of public generosity, and parliament might be compelled to imitate an example which it better became them to give.
The intelligence, however, to which he more particularly alluded, as rendering
326
this measure expedient, was that of a subscription entered into at Petersburg!), at the head of which the Empresses and the rest of the royal family had placed themselves, for the relief of the greatest sufferers by the French invasion. Till this step was taken, it might have been doubted whether there were any practicable means of administering those comforts which the liberality of this country must wish to supply, but which would now be easy of application through the medium of the committers appointed for that purpose in Russia, who would enquire into particular cases, and apply relief where it most was needed, with the same anxious solicitude and discriminating care which had been so often displayed in similar cases in this country.
In what manner the relief should be applied, whether in money or in any supply of necessary articles, or by a clue mixture of both modes, he could not at the moment be prepared to state. It might be proper on this subject to leave much to the discretion of our ambassador at the court of Petersburgh, and at all events to consult him upon the subject; in which no time need be lost, as the ambassador might be instructed to make such advances as were necessary, upon account.
With regard to the amount of the sum, he was aware that it could not be commensurate with the extended misery, to the alleviation of which it was to be directed. On the other hand, it would not become the liberality of this country to offer to our allies, suffering in our cause and the general cause of Europe, not less than in their own, a scanty and penurious grant.—Allies he repeated, suffering in our cause, as well as in their own, for the contest in which Russia was engaged, was not merely one of the greatest importance to the political interests of Great Britain, but immediately connected with the direct interests of those manufacturing bodies whose sufferings had been invidiously stated as an objection to the grant. That the manufacturers had suffered from many causes, and especially from the loss of the American trade, he was far from denying; but the glorious successes of the Russian arms appeared to offer an ample compensation for the loss of the American market, in the extended markets of Europe, which now seemed about to open to their industry. In this point of view he was persuaded that those manufacturers who had been alluded to, would be among the first to ap-

327
prove this grant, as a, tribute of gratitude I for those heroic exertions to which they were so greatly indebted. Every day, and even every hour brought intelligence of the reviving activity which these successes had infused into British commerce,
The sum he was about to propose was 200,000 l. a larger amount than had ever before been voted by parliament for a similar purpose, but which the occasion required to be larger, because the sufferings Were more extensive, and the self devotion and heroism which had marked the conduct of those who endured it, unequalled, he believed, in the annals of the world. With regard to the extent of suffering, it was sufficient to view upon the map the wide range of country to which devastation had been spread, and to reflect that a great and ancient capital with many other towns had been destroyed, and that throughout so extensive a tract scarcely a private dwelling remained to shelter its lately peaceful and secure inhabitants. Thousands, he feared he might even say hundreds of thousands, were driven houseless into the forests, exposed to all the rigours of a Russian winter, and this they willingly endured, rather than betray the honour of their country and submit to the domination of a foreign invader. It was to relieve this great and complicated misery that he called upon the House of Commons to step forward. To relieve it entirely was, indeed, beyond human power; but much might be done by the liberality of their sympathizing countrymen united with the bounty of this nation, and it was, in all events, a consolation to the afflicted to know, that there were hearts which felt for their woe, and were ready to administer to their wants. We must not forget the difference between the price of necessary articles, and the manners of the people in Russia and here, and that a sum which might here appear inconsiderable, would there afford a seasonable and valuable supply. The sum, however, which he was about to propose, could not, in any sense, be called inconsiderable, and he trusted it would be found most extensively useful. But whatever opinion might be entertained on this point, there could be no doubt that the disposition to assist the distress of the Russians, which this proceeding would evince, must carry satisfaction to every heart in Russia, and tend to bind the closer those habits of connection which common interests and long experience pointed out as so advantageous
328
to both. He trusted that it would lay the foundation of an alliance more durable and more closely cemented than any political or diplomatic arrangement could frame. Every traveller who had visited Russia would bear witness how much the hearts*of the people were actuated by good will towards this country; and he trusted that this feeling would now receive greater force. Their gratitude would more than equal our liberality; and on these grounds, without further trespassing on the patience of the committee, and leaving the question rather to their own feelings and judgment, upon facts of unquestionable notoriety, than endeavouring by any argument of his to persuade them to the vote, he begged leave to conclude by moving," That it is the opinion of the committee, that the sum of 200,000 l. be granted to his Majesty to enable his Majesty to afford relief to such parts of the Russian empire as have suffered from the invasion of the enemy."
Mr. Ponsonbydeclared, that it certainly was his intention to vote for the proposed grant, but it was not on account of any of the reasons stated by the right hon. gentleman, nor was it because the terms in which the Message was conceived, were such as were most likely to induce the House to comply with its request. The Message stated the wish of the government to be, to afford "speedy relief" to the suffering Russians; and after this declaration, the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, that before any relief could be granted, it would be necessary to communicate with our ambassador at Petersburgh; so that it would arrive at the end of the winter, when it would be unnecessary. Effectual relief was held out as attainable; but it would not be in the power of the country, not only if it were as liberal but as extravagant, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer could wish, to afford it. But though it was his opinion, that the relief to the sufferers would neither be speedy nor effectual, he should not vote against the proposed grant. But he voted for it, not under the supposition that any of it would go to the Russian peasant, but as a present to the Russian emperor, and lest we should seem to manifest a coldness or backwardness with respect to the noble struggle in which he was engaged. Thinking thus, he did not like the cant of this begging Message, which came to the House under the hypocritical pretence of asking alms for the people For the sufferings of the people

329
of this country, he felt as much as any man; and if the question were simply, to take a sum from the sufferers of England to give to those of Russia, he should give it his negative. The distresses in England, it might be proper to remark, though brought on partly by causes beyond the controul of government, had been in part caused by circumstances which it would have been in their power to prevent. If speedy and conciliatory measures had been adopted with regard to America, a very large portion of this distress would not have existed. At the beginning of the session, the noble lord opposite (Castlereagh) had said, that the most effectual way of assisting Russia,—the way in which that country wished to be assisted,—was, by efforts in Spain: that noble lord had also said, that efforts as great as the power of the country would admit of had been made; that the manner in which that campaign had ended, was not to be attributed to failure on the part of ministers, but to the limited resources of the country; that the country, in fact, was unable to do any thing more; but now came this proposition, to send 200,000 l. not to assist Spain, but Russia, while this last power wished it to be applied to Spain. He appealed to every gentleman present whether his statement of what had been said was not accurate. He should be glad to know whether all means had been taken by the government to render the country able to support this additional expence? The Bill which had been brought forward by an hon. gentleman during the lass session, the Sinecure Bill, would, had it passed, have afforded enough for this grant. It might be said that the Bill had passed that House; but though it might not be proper to allude to what had passed elsewhere, he could not help remarking, that if ministers were as earnest in their wishes for the abolition of useless places, as other members in that House, the event would have been different; or thus much of the session would not have passed, without a message on that subject from the crown. If, however, the House were to negative this grant, more harm would be done to the sufferers of this country, than could be retrieved by the possession of the 200,000 l. Russia had been brought to the state in which she was, by refusing to submit to the continental system; and if the result of the struggle were to enable her to keep open the markets of that vast empire to our manufactures, she would soon repay the sum we might now advance.
330
This he admitted; and if the noble lord had openly come forward, and stated the necessity of it, he should have felt pleasure in concurring in the grant. But in saying this, he hoped he should not be thought to patronize the system of subsidizing. The state of things in Russia arose from her having engaged in this virtuous struggle unbought by us. The situation to which she would have been reduced by an alliance with France, was before her eyes, and without communication with this country, or, if with communication, he was convinced, without assurance of support, she nobly took her part. For these reasons he should support the vote; and he was anxious that it might be seen by the distressed manufacturers, that it was not from any insensibility to their sufferings, that the vote of one member, at least, was determined, but by a sincere conviction that their interests would have been more injured-than served by refusing this grant.
Mr. Bathurstsaid, that the right hon. gentleman had not been happy in the selection of his topics, which were not reasons against the grant, but insinuations against the motives of those who had introduced it. The word "speedy" applied, not to the absolute length of time, but to the nature of the case. If, on communication with our ambassador at Peters-burgh, relief in specie should be judged expedient, there could be no difficulty in making it immediate. The word "effectual" had been applied, not to the relief afforded by this government alone, but in conjunction with that of Russia. To what pitch the munificence of Russia might extend he did not know, but he hoped, that in conjunction with the aid afforded by us, it would be effectual to the great object intended. The next objection was, that it would go, not to the sufferers, but to the Russian treasury, and under this persuasion, the right hon. gentleman had thought the Message properly designated by cant or hypocritical, which terms (had that conception been correct); would, not have been misapplied. But did that right hon. gentleman think, that the paltry sum of 200,000 l. could be thought of as an aid to Russia in such a war as she was engaged in? The next objection regarded Spain, and ministers had been accused of contradiction in withdrawing this sum from Spain, and applying it to Russia. This had received a negative from his side of the House, not on account of any incur-

331
redness in the right hon. gentleman's statement of what had been said, but because that had been spoken of as to be applied in aid of the government, which was intended for the relief of the people. The right hon. gentleman had justly stated, that more good would be done to our manufacturers by granting this sum to conciliate Russia, than by doling it out among them; but with this had been mixed up the consideration of our policy as to America. Without attempting to enter on this question at present, it was not so clear as that right hon. gentleman seemed to imply, that hostilities had arisen entirely from the misconduct of government, and not at all from the spirit of the Americans. He was astonished to hear the right hon. gentleman speak as he had done of the Sinecure Offices' Bill. It was true, that by a total disregard of vested interests, a fund might be produced; but as to the Bill, it had been acknowledged last session by the hon. gentleman who proposed it, that though it would be grateful to public feeling, yet in a pecuniary sense it would be nugatory.
Mr. Ponsonby,in explanation, said, that as it was the duty of the Russian government to protect its own subjects, this could operate in no other way than as a subsidy to that government. As to the Sinecure Bill, he did not mean that the whole sum of 200,000 l. would be found in the Treasury, but that by that measure a saving would be effected equal to the interest of that sum, which must be funded; and of which the interest must now be paid by the people.
Mr. Whitbreadwas sorry to say, that the grant would not pass unanimously. On the Message being first read it had struck him that the grant was not proper; and on discussion with friends whom he respected, and who entertained sentimentson the subject different from his own, he had not found reason to change his opinion. Some of the grounds of his dissent from the grant had been stated by his right hon. friend. He did not, moreover, think it just to this country to take money out of the pockets of our starving manufacturers, to apply it to sufferers to whom, unhappily, it could be of no use. Those unfortunate beings who, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated, had sought shelter from the severity of a Russian winter in their forests, were now, alas! as senseless as the snow with which they were surrounded: and how, if they continued to exist, could the
332
small sum which they were that night called on to vote, afford them relief? Though the contest in Russia might have a tendency to increase our own security, yet to imagine that this 200,000 l. could be a bond of unity between that nation and ourselves, would be to contradict the testimony of experience. It had been the interest of Russia to enter into amity with us; she had acted in pursuance of that interest, and in accordance with that interest she would act hereafter. It had been said, that committees of nobles had been formed—that the emperor had exerted himself to afford relief, by rebuilding habitations, and by alleviating the poignant misery of the sufferers. It did, indeed, behove the Russian government to do away with ail the pomp of state—to apply all the resources of the empire to this object: it was more particularly the duty of that government to do so, from the commission of an act, singular in modern history—the conflagration of Moscow. This grant could be considered as no other than a subsidy in aid of the war in Russia; for by discharging the Russian government of the duty of applying a sum equal to this to its suffering subjects, it left an equal sum applicable to the purpose of driving the French from the empire, or to that of crushing their power. It was a subsidy then—a paltry and contemptible subsidy as to the purpose of the war. From the resistance of Russia, if wisely taken advantage of, the greatest blessings might ensue. This, however, was as yet uncertain. In the mean time, there were in some parts of this country cases of as crying distress, as, out of the reach of war, could possibly be. Suppose a grant proposed to these sufferers; would it not be said to be improper to attempt to alleviate private distress? But would it not be an act of justice to our own country, before we went abroad with our charity, to know whether we had not objects at home, to whom it might be extended with advantage?
Lord Castlereaghdisclaimed the idea that, in consequence of this grant, we should be called upon to supply the wants of every country that might be reduced to a state of distress by the aggression of France. A principle so broad would lead to consequences, which, in the present convulsed state of Europe, it would be impossible for this country to meet. But the question was, whether the sufferings of the people of Russia were not brought home to our feelings, both by the heroic exer-

333
tions they had made, and by the important effect which those exertions were likely to have on our own interests, in such a manner as to call for every relief and assistance in our power? The efforts of Russia had been as gigantic as her sufferings had been without parallel; and it was not to be expected that equal sacrifices would again be made to call upon the House for their interposition. An hon. member had treated the proposal to afford relief to the Russian people as chimerical, and even liable to the suspicion of hypocrisy. He should have thought this character much more applicable to the measure, if it had been brought forward in the shape (which that hon. gentleman recommended) of a subsidy to the emperor Alexander. Nothing could be more contemptible or insulting, than a grant to such an extent to a power struggling with the difficulties which Russia had to encounter, and on the immense scale on which her military operartions were carried on. But though its effect might not be so immediate or decisive as could be wished, in alleviating individual distress, yet he hoped it would come seasonably in aid of the patriotic contributions now raising by the Russian government and nobles, to enable the peasantry and lower classes to resume their occupations, and re-build their habitations, on the return of the mild season. By this grant we should shew that we understood the nature of the struggle in which we were engaged, and were not insensible to the noble sacrifices which a whole people had made, not only of temporary interests, of local attachments, of ancient prejudices, but almost of existence, to the cause of country and of king. We could not act wrong in subsidizing the best feelings of human nature. In this view no act of government had ever been more beneficial than the relief which we had afforded to Portugal. Should our troops be driven back again to the lines of Torres Vedras, the attention and sympathy we then manifested for the sufferings of the Portuguese, had left traces in the hearts of the people, which would make lord Wellington's defence light and easy.—His lordship concluded by alluding to the flattering prospects of peace which might probably be anticipated from the Russian successes; of a peace founded on national honour, on national security, and on the public law of Europe; a peace, by means of which every man might sit down in safety, and repose under
334
the shadow of the laws and constitution. He regretted the disapprobation of the motion expressed by the hon. member who spoke last, but bore testimony to the manliness and sincerity with which that hon. gentleman, on all occasions, declared his opinions in that House.
Sir F. Burdettsaid, he had heard many-parts of the noble lord's speech with pleasure, but there was no part of it which he had heard with so much pleasure, as the word 'peace, a word which he had not for a very long time heard from the other side of the House. If he thought the present grant would really tend to facilitate that most desirable object, a secure and honourable peace, there was no man who would more readily and cordially agree to it than he would. He sincerely hoped that all the sacrifices and exertions which had been made, and of which so much had been said, would not end in a delusive sound, and that we should not be embroiled in fresh wars on fresh successes. But it had been, in his opinion, justly stated, that the proposed grant would not give effectual relief to the Russians; and, knowing the distresses of our own countrymen to be great, and feeling them as he did, he could not assent to taking the money out of the pockets of the poor of this country, to waste it in nominal relief to others. No attempt had been made by parliament to retrench wasteful and superfluous excess in many of the departments of government; no hint had been thrown out, no intention had been expressed, tending that way. While this was the case, he thought it his duty to resist every application to parliament for any extraordinary supplies, in the present exhausted state of the country. It was not possible to take up a paper; not a day passed, without accounts of distraining for the taxes in different places. He did not understand the principle of that generosity, whichsym-pathised only with the distresses of other countries, but bad no feelings for those of our own. Last year the sufferings of the manufacturers in the northern and midland counties had been laid before parliament with a view to some pecuniary relief being afforded. Those sufferings were of a nature to make every feeling heart bleed. But the answer to the application was, that no relief could be be given, consistently with the pressure of the times, and with public economy. We paid dear for the prevalence of this sort of foreign sympathy we had to maintain French

335
loyalists, Dutch loyalists, American loyalists; but when he had come to the House with a proposal of some better provision for the worn-out servants of the public, veteran officers who were pining in poverty and obscurity, or the disabled cripple, whom we daily saw begging about our streets, he had received the same cold answer, that the necessary expences of the government were so great as to admit of no addition.
Mr. Wilberforcesaid, that those gentlemen who opposed the grant found it hard to reconcile their conduct to themselves. They could only do it by inventing some other object of humanity which appeared to claim the preference, or by denying that the measure before the House would operate effectually to the relief of the sufferers. He thought, that including the cheapness of provisions and the mode of living in Russia, the sum, moderate as it was, would be of considerable immediate service; but he conceived the principal benefit to be expected from it, was, that in other cases of a similar kind, it would be setting an example, and opening a channel, into which the charitable and liberal feelings of others would naturally flow. An hon. gentleman had spoken lightly of the grant, as not likely to cement the two countries together. But he conceived that nothing had a greater influence in strengthening political alliances than the manifestation of a friendly and generous disposition between the people. He did not see why nations as well as individuals might not be both generous and just. He had attempted to make some calculation of the share of the ex-pence which would fall upon the poor of this country, but he had found it impossible, and had given up the task in despair. He thought that we could only testify our gratitude to Providence for our exemption from the heavier calamities of war, by shewing our sense of the sufferings to which the inhabitants of other countries, united with us in the same cause, were unfortunately exposed.
Lord Cochranegave his support to the motion, as the sum to be voted was not greater than every ten days expence of the war in the peninsula.
The motion was then carried without a division.

EXCHANCE OF PRISONERS.—SLAVE TRADE.
Lord Hollandexpressed a wish to put questions to the noble earl opposite upon two subjects to which he had adverted in a former session. With respect to the African Slave Trade, six years had now elapsed since the two Houses of Parliament had united in a wish that applications should be made to foreign powers to procure the abolition of that inhuman traffic. He lamented, however, to observe, that the trade still continued to be carried on under the flags of our allies, Spain and Portugal, but he feared with a large proportion of British capital. He was anxious to know what steps had been taken, making use of the influence which we must naturally have in the councils of those allies, to procure the abolition of this disgraceful traffic, and whether, after the lapse of so long a period, any ne-gociation upon this point had at last been nearly brought to a termination? He did not mean to impute neglect to his Majesty's ministers, but it could not escape notice, that the majority of the Prince Regent's council was now composed of those who were hostile to the abolition of this trade.—With respect to an Exchange of Prisoners, he was also anxious to know whether any steps had been taken subsequent to the last negociation, with a view to the attainment of this object; and whether if it was found not attainable consistently with the honour and interests of the country, it was not intended by ministers to institute an investigation into the causes which had prevented the attainment of this object, so essential to the interests of humanity?
The Earl of Liverpoolstated, with regard to an exchange of prisoners, that

319
every effort had been made by the Prince Regent's government, consistently with the honour and interests of the country, to effect an object, which, in every point of view, was so highly desirable, but unfortunately in vain. That no proposition had lately been made by the enemy was to be accounted for by the events which had occurred during the last six months. As to the Slave Trade, however hostile he had been to the abolition of it, nevertheless when that abolition had become the law of the land, he became as anxious as any one, that foreign powers should also abolish the traffic. He assured their lordships that this object had not been lost sight of by any of the governments in power since the act of the legislature. There had been, however, great difficulties to encounter in the progress of the negociation, but with one of the powers alluded to, the negociation was in a train to lead him to hope that it would speedily be brought to a successful termination. With the other power greater difficulties had occurred, from the unsettled state of its government; but the object had not been lost sight of, nor would any effort be wanting on the part of ministers, to bring the negociation to a successful termination.

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RERPECTING THE INVASION OF RUSSIA.
On the order of the day for taking into consideration the Prince Regent's Message respecting the Invasion of Russia,
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that in rising to move an Address in answer to his Royal Highness's most gracious Message, he should perhaps have thought it only necessary to move the Address, leaving to that feeling which he was satisfied actuated the great majority of that House and the country, to express a concurrence in an object, which embodied so many sentiments congenial with, and characteristic of genuine British feeling. Understanding, however, that elsewhere some sentiment had been expressed hostile to the purpose of the Message, he felt it necessary to draw the attention of the House to the circumstances which gave rise to it. A greater exertion had been made by the ruler of France against Russia, than he had put forth against any other power. He had entered Russia with a force of not less than 360,000 men, including 60,000 cavalry, and this at a time when, from various circumstances, not now to be entered
320
into, one of which, however, was the delay which arose in making peace with the Turks, which detained a large portion of the Russian force in a remote part of the empire, the Russian army was numerically inferior to the invading army of France. Under these circumstances, the advice was followed which had been given from various quarters, but particularly by the gallant commander of our armies in the peninsula, to act upon a defensive system. In conformity with this system, the Russian troops retreated, but in a manner that gave birth to the most sanguine hope of the events which ultimately followed. During the course of the retreat not a corps was cut off nor a detachment made prisoners, except in partial conflicts. At length the opportunity arrived for offensive operations, and the events that followed were already before the public. To give effect to this offensive system, the greatest sacrifices had been made. There was no example in modern warfare of so great and magnanimous a sacrifice as that of the burning of Moscow. Look at a population of 200,000 persons, voluntarily quitting their homes, and sacrificing their houses and their property, in order that Moscow might not afford quarters and become a place of arms for the enemy. It was not merely, however, at Moscow, that these sacrifices were made, but hundreds of villages were destroyed, upon the approach of the enemy, by the inhabitants, who, after making this sacrifice, in numerous instances, retired into the adjoining woods, and returned with whatever arms they could procure to encounter the invaders of their country. In every other instance of an invasion by the French arms, except in the peninsula, the people had stood for nothing; in Russia they had stood for every thing—actuated by an universal spirit of patriotism, they had voluntarily made the greatest sacrifices, they had offered up every selfish consideration, every sentiment of mere personal enjoyment, every private object, at the shrine of their country. In these sacrifices, and in such a contest, it was evident, that much individual misery must have been endured. To contribute in some degree to the alleviation of that misery the generosity of Britons was called upon—a generosity which was characteristic of British feeling in all its warmest impulses, where no other consideration intervened. But here, to the feelings of generosity, every consideration of interest was added. Why did

321
France invade Russia? not for the sake of invading Russia, but because Russia would not adhere to the continental system; because the government of Russia would not consent to exclude from her ports the produce of our industry. Great Britain was, therefore, attacked through the medium of Russia, and to look at the question merely in a mercantile point of view, the greatest benefit had already accrued to our commercial interests from the Russian successes. Was it nothing to have the market of 36,000,000 of people? Already had our commercial interests been materially benefited. The great interests connected with our colonies, had experienced the advantage flowing from the rise in the price of all colonial produce; our I manufacturing interests had been benefited by the increased demand for the produce of their industry. Every channel of commerce had received fresh life and vigour, through the successes of the Russians. Looking at the question, therefore, in the narrowest point of view, the proposed aid was eminently called for—but in how much greater a degree, from other causes, and other feelings? Had it been merely a check to that torrent of ambition which had deluged so many other countries, still he would have contended for the grant; but here, where British interests were concerned in the contest—where British interests were so materially benefited by the result—how much more was such an aid called for? Let it not be supposed 'that he was insensible to the privations and the sufferings of the people of this country; but let it be recollected that here we were exempt from the actual calamities of war. The sending out fleets and armies on foreign expeditions, or the taxation consequent upon war, were as nothing, compared with those calamities which arose from a country being made the actual theatre of war. From these horrors we were exempted, but let us look with an eye of generosity to those who were suffering all the horrors of such a calamity. Was it not of importance to shew a disposition to aid the suffering people of Russia, and thereby cement the union of the two powers? The French in their invasion of Russia, by the cruelties they had committed, and by the sacrilegious destruction of their sacred edifices, had inspired the Russians with a detestation which would not only be felt by those now in existence, but by generations still unborn. Was it not of importance then, by the aid af-
322
forded by this country, to fix the sentiments of the Russian nation in unison with our own, and thus cement the union of the two governments? The noble earl concluded by moving an Address of concurrence, and mentioning that the sum proposed to be granted was 200,000 l. The higher ranks in Russia had begun a contribution which this sum was intended to aid.
Lord Hollandnever felt himself more embarrassed than upon the present occacasion, and had it not been an established rule with him, never to shrink from his parliamentary duty, he would have preferred being absent. His embarrassment arose from this, that he thought the proposition impolitic, but at the same time that it would be unwise and unsafe to reject it. He perfectly agreed with the noble earl in his praise of the patriotism of the Russian nation, and this praise was more particularly applicable to the peasantry, who in sacrificing the produce of their earnings, had not the consolation of those feelings which were inseparable from the soldier, but were actuated solely by motives of pure patriotism. He could not, however, agree in the propriety of the mode proposed, nor did he see that the aid could consistently be afforded, if such a sum was disposable for this purpose, why had it not been applied to replenish lord Wellington's military chest; and might not the emperor of Russia say, if this money had been applied in time to replenish lord Wellington's military chest, it would have been of greater advantage to my cause than sending it now to me? The only argument that could induce him to accede to the proposition, was that used by the noble lord, of shewing a disposition to aid the Russian nation. He agreed that this was of importance, and he trusted, at the same time, that in the alliance of the courts of Peters burgh and London, there was a perfect understanding as to their objects, not only as to carrying on the war, but as to the means of bringing about a secure peace. Whether the emperor of France should escape or not, he trusted that the events that had happened would clear the way for that situation of affairs, which might render a peace upon secure grounds, less difficult of attainment; and that upon this point there was a thorough understanding between the courts of Peters burgh and London. For such an object, so highly to be desired, he anxiously looked to the effects

323
of this alliance, nor would he for a moment suppose, that any intention existed of endeavouring to force any other government upon France; which could only have the effect of rousing against us the yet remaining considerable resources of that power. With respect to the proposition now made, it must rest upon the responsibility of ministers. He did not think enough had been laid before the House to shew the propriety of the grant, but he was willing to believe that ministers had in their possession information to warrant the proposition. If any hint had been given to ministers that such a grant would be acceptable to the Russian government, or the Russian nation, then he should not hesitate a moment in agreeing to it. Under this impression, he would not withhold his vote from the proposition.
The Address was agreed to nem. dis.

GOLD COIN BILL.
On the order of the day being read, for going into a Committee on this Bill,
The Marquis of Lansdowneexpressed a wish, that the Bill had been divided into two. To one part of it he was disposed to agree, namely, that which respected distress for rent; it was true, it was a part of a faulty system, but it was certainly necessary to protect tenants from oppression in being called upon to do that which would be, under present circumstances, a violation of the original contract with the landlord; for though a noble friend of his in calling for rents in specie, had laid down rules which were perfectly equitable, yet other landlords might not be actuated by the same equity. So far, therefore, he agreed in the measure; but to the other part of the Bill, which went in fact to declare, that no person should part with gold, except for less than its value, nor take paper except for more than its value, he considered it as a system pregnant with incalculable mischief. He would not now enter into the question of depreciation; but confine himself to the more immediate object of the Bill, and he contended that it was perfectly absurd to attempt by a legislative provision to give a currency to paper, which was not worth the value set upon it. Similar expedients had been the resort of all weak and tyrannical governments, and had successively failed. The natural consequence was, the driving all the gold out of the market, and thus precluding' the means of returning to payments in specie. What good had been ef-
324
fected by resorting to this measure? Had it tended to support the war in the peninsula? It was a well known fact, on the contrary, that ministers had been unable to send a requisite supply in specie to lord Wellington, and that his lordship had only been enabled to procure a supply from the circumstance of there being two prices in Portugal, a gold price and a paper price. Had a similar legislative enactment to this prevailed in Portugal the supply could not have been obtained. Thus it would be seen that it was only upon the principle of two prices that our army was supplied in the peninsula, a principle which, in fact, prevailed in this country, but in ineffectually endeavouring to counteract which by this measure, ministers had precluded the means of adequately supplying our army there from hence. The same principle also of two prices prevailed in Canada, where 100,000 l. in Bank notes I had been sent, and had been discounted, being taken at the rate of 14 s. in the pound. Impressed with the idea of the futility of enacting what was in itself absurd, and in its consequences mischievous, as it could not prevent the two prices which it was its object to counteract, and as it operated by driving the gold out of the market to prevent a return to a sound and healthy circulation, he intended to have taken the sense of the House upon a motion for dividing the Bill into two; but as the House was thinly attended, he should not put it to the vote.
The Earl of Clancartycontended, that the most mischievous consequences would result from having two prices, and that the supply to our army in the peninsula was best secured by the present measure.
The Bill then passed through the Committee.