Sitting of 7 December 1812

PETITION FROM LEICESTER CLERGY RESPECTING THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.
Mr. Lee Keckpresented a Petition from the archdeacon and clergy of the archdeaconry and county of Leicester, setting forth,
"That the archdeacon and clergy aforesaid, take the liberty of stating to the House, that although they have hitherto been passive observers of the growing claims of our Roman Catholic brethren, the period is now arrived when silence might seem to sanction those general claims of freedom from all disabilities, which they beg leave to oppose for the following reasons; viz. that the repeal of the restrictive statutes, graciously intended to pacify the discontents of the Roman Catholics, hath only served to render their discontents less peaceful; that civil privileges awarded to them as the ultimatum of their desires, and, upon their own avowal, as closing the doors of parliament against them, were received with a secret reserve of being only pro hae vice, and have opened a still wider door for future demands: that concessions seem only to have begotten fresh concessions, to be repeated till nothing be left to be conceded, and that in the original formation of a civil government, the Roman Catholics might perhaps demand the allowance of their claims, but in one already formed, and whose constitutional laws are fundamentally hostile to such claim, they can only be granted upon the principle of expediency, and as an experiment which is pregnant with danger to civil and religious liberty, and therefore not to be hazarded; and that the petitioners do not and cannot consider this question in a political view, to the exclusion of religious principles, all the actions of moral agents being in one sense, and that the only guarantee of integrity strictly of a religious nature, not less so in the cabinet than in the church; and that the resistance of the petitioners is not founded merely upon any difference in the creeds of Protestants and Roman Catholics considered in the abstract, but upon the nature of this difference as involving tenets of exclusive salvation, foreign allegiance, and infallibility of ge-
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neral councils; that the baneful influence of these tenets is not to be ascertained from the exterior of society in Protestant establishments, where the number of Roman Catholics is comparatively small, not in Great Britain, where they are kept in check by the strong arm of Protestant power; but in Popish governments, by the persecutions of all without the pale of their own Church, but exclusive of facts, that their tenets are so incompatible with the civil and religious liberty of our constitution that they cannot harmonize together, there can be no communion of amity and unity between them; and is it to be imagined that the possession of political power will operate as a soporific on tenets always active in self-aggrandizement, and never quiescent unless in a state of compression; and that the petitioners cannot by any casuistry conscientiously pronounce a religion to be corrupt and idolatrous, yet appear to support it; renounce communion with it as erroneous, and yet do any thing that may contribute to the spread of its errors; invest its members with honour and power which may render their example more attractive, without participating in the corruption and idolatry of those who may thus be misled; and that the principles avowed at the Revolution, recognized and interwoven in the very texture of the Coronation Oath ever since, and with most religious firmness adhered to by the father of his people, our most gracious, venerable, and beloved monarch, throughout his very arduous reign, embolden us to hope that no peculiarity of times and circumstances will lead to the removal of those sacred bulwarks by which our ancestors have happily secured the safety of the Church, the throne, and the Protestant community at large; and that however desirious the petitioners may be to conciliate the esteem and prove their charity for their Roman Catholic brethren, by acquiescing in their claims, yet the paramount duty of preserving the existing establishments denies them that satisfaction, and obliges them to declare, in conjunction with the great mass of the Protestant population of the empire, and it is humbly hoped of Protestant Houses of Lords and Commons—Nolumus Leges Angliœ mutari."—Ordered to lie on the table.

GREAT GRIMSBY ELECTION—PETITION OF ELECTORS.
A Petition of Charles Lowcock, William Wray, and William Nundy,

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free burgesses, voters, and electors of the borough of Great Grimsby, in the county of Lincoln, who were voters and voted at the last election for members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough of Great Grimsby, on behalf of themselves and others, free burgesses and voters of the said borough of Great Grimsby, was read; setting forth,
"That, at the last election for the borough of Great Grimsby, on the 6th of October 1812, John Henry Loft, esq., Ebenezer John Collett, esq., Sir Robert Heron, bart., and John Peter Grant, esq., were candidates; and that the said petitioners, who have thereunto signed their names, were then and now are free burgesses and voters of the said borough, and voted at the said last election; and that, on the 5th of October last, being the day preceding the election, William Wardale, esq., the mayor of the said borough, and returning officer, held a full court of mayor, aldermen, common councilman, and burgesses of the said borough, at which said court the said W. Wardale did partially and corruptly, wilfully, unlawfully, and of his own authority, admit certain persons to the freedom of the said borough who were not entitled thereto, and did neglect and refuse to submit to the consideration and judgment of the said court, the claimed right of such persons to be admitted to their freedom, which by the constitution and usage of the said borough he ought to have done; that the said W. Wardale did also partially and corruptly, wilfully, unlawfully, and of his own authority, refuse to admit certain other persons who were entitled and claimed at the said full court to be admitted freemen of the said borough, to their freedom therein, some of whom had been declared, decided, and established by a Committee of the House to have such claims, rights, and titles, and did also neglect and refuse to submit to the aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses of the said borough, in the said full court assembled, the rights and claims of such persons to be admitted to their freedom of the said borough, and which, by the constitution and usage of the said borough, be ought to have done; that the said W. Wardale did wilfully, partially, corruptly, illegally, and of his own authority, in direct violation of the laws of the realm, the constitution and usage of the said borough, and also in wilful opposition to the decisions of Committees of the House, and which
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decisions had been established by Orders and Resolutions of the House, persist in discharging the said full court of mayor, aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses on the evening of the said 5th of October, although he then knew that many persons who had rights and claims to be admitted to their freedoms of and in the said borough were then waiting and remaining in the said borough for that purpose, who had spoken to him the said W. Wardale thereupon, and to whom he had given his promise that the said full court should be adjourned until the next morning, as was usually and heretofore the case, and on which day, being Tuesday, it ought to have been held: but he, finding that the whole, or nearly so, of the persons then within the borough, who were likely to vote for the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant, whose cause and interest he had most publicly and glaringly espoused, had gained their admissions, he, by the most determined, wilful, and flagrant injustice, discharged the court, not only without putting it to the consideration and judgment of the aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses, but in direct and positive opposition to the almost unanimous claim of them all, upon a motion put by one alderman, a burgess, and seconded by another alderman, a burgess, to have it adjourned to the next morning, as by law and the custom and usage of the said borough he ought to have done, but he actually did order the discharge, and did discharge the said court accordingly without any adjournment; and that, on the next day, the 6th of October last, being the day of election, great numbers of persons having undoubted rights and claims to be admitted to their freedoms of the said borough, did make application to and demand of the said W. Wardale, in court, to hold a full court, that they might be legally admitted, and did demand and claim to be so admitted to their freedom of the said borough, without which they were incapable of using their elective franchises and birth-rights at the said election for members to serve in this present parliament, and which said demands and applications for the said full court and admissions to the freedom of the said borough were supported by great numbers of the aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses, to prevent such wilful, determined, and flagrant acts of injustice; but the said W. Wardale, did most wilfully, wantonly, vexatiously, cor-

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ruptly, partially, illegally, and of his own authority, refuse to hold such full court for the admission of the said persons to their freedoms of the said borough, and did refuse to put their claims for their admissions to their freedoms of the said borough to the aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses then and there assembled, but did most wantonly, vexatiously, and corruptly refuse to grant them their said freedoms of the said borough, and did proceed to the election without attending to those persons who unimpeachably claimed their freedoms by the unquestionable rights of birth, marriage, and servitude, which claims and demands were many times repeated in the course of the said 6th of October by the said parties, and by burgesses on their behalf, which said claims and demands the said W. Wardale constantly resisted and refused, as also to put their said claims and demands to the judgment of the said aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses so assembled for their decision, which, according to the usage and customs of the said borough of Great Grimsby, he ought to have done; and, for the neglect of so submitting the said claims to the said aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses so assembled, the said W. Wardale could not use the plea of ignorance, having been a go woman on the bench, and taking an active part and opposition to John Simpson the mayor and returning officer of the said borough in July 1802, when the said John Simpson took upon himself to decide like claims and rights without submitting them to the judgment and decision of the aldermen, common councilmen, and burgesses then and there assembled, for which the House, to mark its indignation, and to be a warning and example to other mayors and returning officers of the said borough of Great Grimsby, did commit the said John Simpson, the then said mayor and returning officer, to his majesty's gaol of Newgate: That the said W. Wardale, at and during the said last election, did act most partially and corruptly in the execution of his said office of returning officer, and did at the poll reject the votes of many persons having right and rights to vote at the said election, and who tendered their votes for the said J. H. Loft and the said E. J. Collett esquires, and which votes he, as such returning officer at the said election, ought to have received and admitted on the poll; and the only reasons that they
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were not so received and placed on the said poll, were his own acts of injustice, partiality, and corruption, in not holding the full court for their admissions to their freedoms of the said borough, and some of which persons had been decided to have legal rights by a decision of a Committee of the House on a former Petition being tried: That the said W. Wardale, the said mayor and returning officer, did, at the said last election, receive and admit on the said poll, for the said sir R. Heron, bart., and J. P. Grant, the votes of divers paupers, felon-convicts, non-resident or foreign freemen, and others who had no right to vote at the said election, and which votes he, the said W. Wardale, as such returning officer, ought to have rejected: That persons having rights to vote at the said last election, and who went for the purpose of tendering their votes for the said J. H. Loft, and E. J. Collett, were prevented going into the hall by armed persons, stationed at the door by the said W. Wardale, the said returning officer, and never could tender their votes; and that the said sir R. Heron, bart., and J. P. Grant were, and each of them, by himself, his agents, managers, and others, on their and his behalf, before, at, and during the said election, and before and during the poll taken at the said election, guilty of the most open and notorious bribery and corruption of the electors of the said borough, to give their votes for them and each of them the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant, and to refuse and forbear to give their votes for the said J. EL Loft and E. J. Collett, in order that they the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant might be returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough: That the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant, and each of them, by himself his agents and managers, and by other persons on his and their behalf, at and during the said election, and previous to the same, did, by gifts, loans and rewards, and by threats, promises, agreements and securities for gifts, loans and rewards, corrupt and procure, and attempt to corrupt and procure, divers persons, being electors of the said borough, to give their votes at the said election for them the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant, and each of them, that they the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant might be elected and returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough; that they and each of them also did, by gifts, loans and rewards,

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and by threats, promises and agreements, and securities for gifts, loans and rewards, corrupt and procure, and attempt to corrupt and procure, divers persons being electors of the said borough to refuse and forbear to give their votes at the said election for the said J. H. Loft and E. J. Collett, that the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant might be elected and returned for the said borough: That the said sir R. Heron, bart., and J. P. Grant, and each of them, by himself, his agents, managers, friends, and other persons on his and their behalf, were guilty of the most open and public bribery and corruption, in giving sums of money, and promises and securities for sums of money to the corporation, and to and for the use and benefit of the corporation and corporators, such corporators being voters, and having had votes in the said last election for the said borough, and that they were also guilty of bribery and corruption in giving sums of money to and for the use and benefit of the said borough previous to, at, and during the said last election of members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough, in order that they the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant might be elected and returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough: That the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant did, after the dissolution of the last parliament, and after the issuing of the writ for the election of this present parliament, and at and during the said last election, by themselves and their agents, managers and friends, and by others on their behalf, and at their charge, and each of them, by himself, his agents, friends, and managers, and by others on his behalf, and at his charge, give, present, and allow to divers persons having voices in the said election, and to and for their use and benefit, money, meat, drink, entertainment, and provision, and make presents, gifts, rewards, and entertainments, and promises, agreements, obligations, and engagements, to give and allow money, meat, drink, provisions, presents, rewards, and entertainments to and for divers persons having voices in the said last election, and to and for the use, advantage, emolument, benefit, profit, and preferment of such persons, in order that they the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant might be elected and returned, and for their being elected and returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough, contrary to the common laws and customs of parliament, in
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violation and defiance of the standing order and orders of the House, and of the laws and statutes of this kingdom, particularly an Act of the 7th and 8th of king William 3, intituled, An Act for preventing charge and expence in the elections of members to serve in parliament, an Act of the 2d of king George the 2d, intitled, An Act for the more effectual preventing bribery and corruption in the elections of members to serve in parliament; an Act of the 49lh year of his present Majesty, intitled, An Act for better securing the independence and purity of parliament, by preventing the procuring or obtaining of seats in parliament by corrupt practices; and that the said sir R. Heron end J. P. Grant did each of them declare to those persons having voices in the said election, and which statements were made previous thereto, that they had the interest of two peers of parliament, by which means they acquired an undue influence over many of the voters who would otherwise have voted for the said J. H. Loft and E. J. Collett; and that by this unconstitutional mode, in violation of the orders of the House, and by other undue influence and means which were used, many votes were lost to the said J. H. Loft and E. J. Collett, for the purpose of the said sir R. Heron and the said J. P. Grant being elected and returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough: that by the above-stated and other unlawful means the said sir R. Heron and J. P. Grant obtained a colourable majority over the said J. H. Loft and E. J Collett of votes upon the poll of the said last election, and were returned members to serve in this present parliament for the said borough of Grimsby, to the very great injury of the petitioners, and many other of the legal electors of the said borough, in manifest violation of their privileges and rights, and in open defiance of the law" and freedom of election: that the petitioners humbly conceive that the said J. H. Loft and the said E. J. Collett had the greatest number of legal and uncorrupted votes at the said last election; and praying, that the House will be pleased to take their most peculiarly hard case under their most serious consideration, and that they will grant them such relief as to the House may seem meet."
Ordered to be taken into consideration on the 16th of February.

SUDBURY ELECTION—PETITION OF FREEMEN
A Petition of the rev. John Newman, clerk, Thomas Fenn esq. John Addison esq., Robert Anderson, Robert Daking, Henry Hayward, John Holman the younger, Joseph Herbert the elder, John Burkitt, Edward Burkitt, James Ablitt the elder, and John Barker the younger, freemen of the borough of Sudbury, in the county of Suffolk, was read; setting forth,
"That, previously to, and at, the last general election, the petitioners were freemen of the said borough of Sudbury, and had, and claimed to have, a right to vote for members to represent the said borough in parliament; and that, at the said last general election, sir John Cox Hippesley bart. and Charles Wyatt esq., were candidates, and were returned as members having been duly elected for the said borough; and that, after the teste of the writ of summons for the election of proper persons to represent the said borough of Sudbury, and before the said election, and also at and during the time of the said election, and before the return made, the said Charles Wyatt did, by himself, and by his agents and friends, with his privity and consent, and by his directions, and on his behalf, give to divers electors of the said borough, or persons being, or claiming to be, electors of the said borough, and having votes at such election, money, meat, drink, entertainment, and provision, and the said C. Wyatt, his agents and friends, with his privity and consent, and by his directions, did also make and give such persons, so having votes as aforesaid, presents, gifts, rewards, and entertainments, and did also, previously to and at the time of the said election, make promises and agreements, and enter into obligations and engagements, to give and allow such persons money, meat, drink, provision, presents, rewards, and entertainments, in order that the said C. Wyatt might be elected as one of the representatives in parliament for the said borough; and that, by reason of such conduct, the said C. Wyatt acted in defiance of the standing orders of the House, and in violation of the laws and statutes of the realm, and thereby the petitioners submit to the House that the said C. Wyatt became and was incapable of being returned or elected to serve in parliament for the said borough; and that the petitioners submit to the House, that the said C. Wyatt, having so become legally incapable of being returned and elected as one of the representatives for
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the said borough, such votes as were given to him and in his favour are and ought to be considered as null and void; and that the return and election of the said C. Wyatt, ought also to be considered as null and void; and that the said C. Wyatt ought to be deemed no member duly elected for the said borough; and praying, that a day may be appointed by the House for taking the premises into consideration, and that the election of the said C. Wyatt may be declared null and void, and his incapacity to sit and vote as member for the said borough of Sudbury, be declared, and that the House will otherwise grant to the petitioners such relief in the premises as to the House shall seem meet."
Ordered to be taken into consideration on Tuesday the l6th of February.

HASLEMERE ELECTION—PETITION OR MESSRS. GRAVES.
A Petition of Richard Graves and of Samuel Colleton Graves, of Hembury Fort, in the county of Devon, esquires, was presented and read; setting forth,
"That, at the last election of members to serve in this present parliament for the borough of Haslemere, in the county of Surrey, the right hon. Charles Long, Robert Ward esq., and the petitioners, were candidates; and that George Frederick Gordon, who then exercised the office of bailiff of the said borough, and acted as returning officer thereof, did, after a poll had been duly demanded at the said election, postpone the commencement thereof unnecessarily and illegally to the next day at 12 o'clock, under a false pretence, for the purpose of harassing the petitioners by delay; and that the said G. F. Gordon was, at and before, and during, the said election, guilty of gross and corrupt partiality in favour of the said C. Long and R. Ward, to the injury of the petitioners, and did, by himself or his agent, after the dissolution of the last parliament, and the issuing the writ for the said election, and previous to the closing of the poll, allow, or cause or procure to be given and allowed, by various ways and means, to divers persons who had or claimed a right to vote in the said election, money meat drink entertainment and provision, and did make, and allow to be made, promises to give and allow money meat drink and provisions to such persons, or to the use and benefit of such persons, in order to obtain their vote at

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the said election for the said C Long and R. Ward; and that the said C. Long and R. Ward, by themselves or their agents, their friends or their adherents, after the teste of the writ, before and during the said election, by various ways and means, did give, allow, and promise and permit to be so given, allowed, and promised, money meat drink provision and entertainment to divers persons, or to and for the use of divers persons claiming a right to vote at the said election, in order to obtain their votes, contrary to the express law of the land; and that the said G. F. Gordon, as such returning officer, did illegally admit divers persons to vote at the said election for the said C. Long and R. Ward, who had no legal or good right to vote at such election, and rejected and disallowed the votes of several persons who had a good and legal right and title to vote at such election, and who tendered themselves to vote for the petitioners, and whose votes ought to have been received and entered on the poll; and that divers other persons, who were duly qualified to vote at the said election, and who were then and there present at the time and place of the said election, who were ready, willing, and desirous to vote for the petitioners, were intimidated by threats, and were thereby and otherwise prevented by the said C. Long and R. Ward, or their agents or others on their behalf, from giving their votes for the petitioners as they otherwise would have done; and that, by the aforesaid illegal and corrupt conduct of the said G. F. Gordon, as such returning officer, and by the said unlawful and corrupt practices of the said C. Long and R. Ward, by themselves, or by their agents or others on their behalf, the said C. Long and R. Ward obtained a colourable majority over the petitioners, and procured themselves to be returned for the said borough, to the prejudice of the petitioners, and in violation of their rights; whereas the petitioners allege that they had a majority of good and legal voters, who were willing to vote for them, and tendered their votes; and that the petitioners ought to have been returned for the said borough; and that the said C. Long and R. Ward were not duly and sufficiently qualified by law to serve in parliament for the said borough, and that they are also disqualified from being elected as members of the House by the pensions and places possessed by them or either of them, or to and for their use and
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benefit, contrary to the usage and privileges of the House, and to the express law of the land; and praying, that the said C. Long and R. Ward may be declared not duly elected, and that the petitioners may be declared duly elected, and the return amended accordingly, and that the petitioners may be allowed such relief as to the House shall appear meet."
Ordered, to be taken into consideration upon the 18th of February.

ADDRESS FOR COMMUNICATIONS RESPECTING THE SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. Wilberforce,observing that there had been recently published in the daily prints some circumstances of a nature calculated to excite the attention and anxiety of all those who felt an interest in the complete accomplishment of that most important object, the Abolition of the Slave Trade, and that it was highly advisable that the most satisfactory information relative to these circumstances should be laid before parliament, moved "That an humble Address be presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, that he will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this House, copies of all communications from the governor of the Cape of Good Hope, and from the governor of the islands of Bourbon and Mauritius, received since the capture of those settlements respectively, so far as they relate to the carrying on of the Slave Trade in those settlements, or in any of the neighbouring islands."
Mr. Brownesaid, he did not rise to oppose the motion, but he could not refrain from saying that if an excuse were wanting for that sort of evasion of the Abolition Bill, of which the honourable member complained, it was to be found in that system of recruiting in Africa which had been lately established under the authority of government for the purpose of filling up the ranks of the Black regiments in the West Indies; a system which, while it had the effect of reviving, nay and of perpetuating all the evils of a trade which had been characterised as inhuman and unjust, had, at the same time, the effect of inducing in the eyes of Europe, a doubt of the sincerity and good faith of our intentions on the great question of the abolition of that trade, and at a time, too, when as his Majesty's ministers had before informed the House, they were using their utmost endeavours to effect a general

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co-operation in the total abandonment of the trade, upon which that amelioration in the state of Africa which we contemplate must mainly depend. It was no answer to say, that the object of this recruiting establishment was to procure free persons only. He was at a loss to know where persons were to be found in Africa to exercise any discretion upon the question of enlistment, but admitting it to be practicable; still, as the procuring of men there was the object in view, and as that object might be accomplished by means not unlike the means resorted to during the continuance of the trade, which it would be out of the power of the government there to controul or prevent, that of itself, should have been a motive sufficient to prevent this evil establishment, at least with those who sincerely felt anxious to see the practical benefits of the abolition manifesting themselves in Africa.
Lord Castlereaghremarked, that as no objection was made to the production of the papers moved for by the hon. gentleman near him, whatever foundation there might be for the apprehension of the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, would be a subject better fitted for discussion on some future day when these papers might be on the table of the House.
Mr. Bennetwished to know whether or not, in spite of our efforts to prevent it, the Portuguese and Spaniards did not carry on a traffic for slaves with the British colonies—a traffic composed of piracy and oppression? He wished also to make another inquiry connected with this interesting subject. We had a chain of forts in Africa, which, during the existence of the Slave Trade, were used as depots for slaves. He was positively informed, that during last summer, the governors of some of these forts actually supplied no less than 47 Portuguese vessels with slaves. Had steps been taken by government to put an end to this shameful abuse?
Lord Castlereaghexpressed his regret at not being able at that moment completely to satisfy the hon. gentleman's enquiries. He could assure him, however, that the exertions of his Majesty's government had been used most sincerely to prevail upon those countries with which they had any influence to concur in terminating this abominable traffic. He trusted that these countries were inclined to adopt the measures suggested to them for
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that purpose, and that the trade would soon be wholly suppressed. With respect to the statement made by the hon. gentleman, relative to the conduct of the governors of some of our forts in Africa, all he could say was, that the information alluded to by the hon. gentleman had not come within his knowledge,
The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that the forts mentioned by the hon. gentleman were under consideration at the time of Mr. Perceval's death, but the change of government, which followed upon that event, prevented, as yet, any further consideration of the subject.
Mr. Bennetwished to know whether the government had received any communication respecting the breach of the Abolition Act by the governors of any of these forts?
Mr. Goulburnsaid, there had been one communication to that effect, made to the naval commander upon that station, but upon investigation it was found to have been groundless.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. Wilberforceproceeded to move for further papers connected with the same subject. He confessed that he had listened to the speech of the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Browne) with some disquiet, as, in the early part of it, there seemed an intimation similar to that which had so frequently been urged in parliament against the abolition itself, namely, that the existence of an enormity in one place justified the practice of an enormity in another. This disquiet, however, was removed by the conclusion of the hon. gentleman's observations. With respect to the scheme of enlisting Africans on the coast, to fill up the black corps in the West Indies, he confessed that he was acquainted with the original intention of carrying that scheme into effect, and that he thought it was accompanied by guards sufficient to prevent it from being abused. How far these guards had actually turned out to be adequate to their object, was certainly a question of considerable importance; and one which ought to be investigated deliberately, and not incidentally. But at any rate, it appeared to him that all idea of compulsion—of slavery—was wholly out of the question.—With respect to the conduct of our navy on the African station, it had been such as reflected upon it the highest credit. Even the common sailors had refused to share the wages of iniquity; in one case in particular, in which a number of

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unfortunate African slaves, men, women, and children, had been discovered hidden on board a vessel professedly laden with cattle. These wretched beings had been induced to conceal themselves and to abstain almost from breathing, by the master of the vessel, who told them, that if they were discovered, they would be killed and eaten. They were, however, discovered and released, and this occurrence afforded an additional proof of that humanity by which our naval officers and seamen were no less distinguished than by their bravery, and the eminent services they had rendered to their country. As to the abuses that were alleged to have crept into the enlisting for the black corps, he repeated that they ought to be enquired into, and if they really existed, to be stopped. But he confessed he did not believe, that with the guards which had been devised, any such abuses could prevail. He concluded by moving, "That there be laid before this House, copies of all communications received by the lords commissioners of the Admiralty from the chief naval officer at the Cape of Good Hope, so far as they respect the carrying on of the Slave Trade in that settlement, or in any of the neighbouring islands."—Ordered.

GRANT TO THE MARQUIS OF WELLINGTON.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, for the purpose of taking into consideration the Prince Regent's Message, relative to the marquis of Wellington. On the Message being read by the chairman,
Lord Castlereaghsaid, that in calling the attention of the House to the Message which his Royal Highness had been graciously pleased to lay before them, he might, he believed, feel and express a confidence that, at least upon the principle of the Message, there could exist but little, if any variety of opinion. There was, he was convinced, no person who then heard him, that could feel any unwillingness to repay the services of so gallant and so distinguished an officer as the marquis of Wellington, with every title of honour that the crown could confer, and every pecuniary reward the country could afford to bestow. Whatever difficulty there might exist in the calculation of what was due to his services, and what was due to the nation; whatever might be the limits they would feel it necessary to impose upon the principle of the Message, and the generosity that dictated it, upon the claims of
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the gallant general, upon his signal services, upon his high merits and great achievements, there could exist no difference of opinion. The House should recollect, that the honours which had been hitherto conferred on lord Wellington by his sovereign, were not sought for by him; that such honours were not conferred merely for the gratification of the individual, to be worn by him as memorials of his military greatness, and testimonies of his sovereign's regard, they were conferred as an example to others—that they might feel those motives to noble exertion, to gallant service, and military fame, which could not fail to hold out a generous excitement to every person that had the happiness to live under our free and happy constitution. Honours of such a nature should be always conferred less with a view to the individual than to their general effects; but the House must also feel, that in conferring such honours, there was at least an implied engagement that they should be neither burthensome nor painful to the person who received them, but conferred in such a way as to make them worthy both of the crown and of the people. The honours with which the marquis of Wellington had been graced, were not merely bestowed by the crown, but were called for by the voice of the nation. And he might say with truth, that the sanction and approbation of that House had followed so closely upon the gift of the sovereign, that the honours of the brave general were not less under the sanction of parliament than of the crown. By such conduct they had, at least, marked the extent of his claims. Lord Wellington, though yet a young man, though much he hoped of his valuable life would be yet spent in the service of his country; however, young as he was, he had received more testimonies of his sovereign's favour than any subject who lived before his time, not excepting even the great duke of Marlborough. It was the singular fortune of that distinguished officer, that in addition to the rewards and honours bestowed by his sovereign, he had received upon six different occasions what was not less flattering or less honourable, the thanks of that House:—on lord Wellington, who was younger in years but not in experience, the thanks of that House had been conferred not less than eight times, six of which had been for his services on the peninsula, where he was opposed, not as he had been before to an Indian enemy, but to armies long accus-

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tomed to victory, to armies commanded by men of the first military talents, trained in the school of danger and experience, confident of success, for they had been accustomed to conquest, with their laurels fresh and yet blooming round them. Such were the armies, such were the captains whose laurels withered before the brightness of his fame. Fortunately for the world, those laurels had been transplanted to another region where they would flourish, he hoped, for ever, not for the destruction of mankind, but for the protection of their liberties and their religion, and their rights. Never did the country produce a man who had received so large a measure of parliamentary and national approbation. No man had been ever so greatly and so justly distinguished. In the peninsula, taking all together, his catalogue of successes unchequered by any thing to diminish their glory, was the greatest that any individual ever before had to boast of. Those successes were in the recollection of the House. Every person who heard him must recollect the battle of Busaço, in which a victory was gained over nearly double numbers; the battle of Fuente de Honore, and other battles which, if not fought immediately under his eye, were fought at least under his direction; also the battle of Albuera; but, above all, the attack upon the bridge of Almarez, conducted by general Hill, under the direction of lord Wellington. Soult confessed, that from the moment of that successful attack, the measures he had planned with Marmorn were completely deranged. The army of Spain was forced to act in two divisions, and its generals were prevented from their intended cooperation. It was indeed true, that his splendid course of military successes was not unchequered by retreat. Retreat, however, was not defeat: and in the retreat to which circumstances obliged him, he still gave evidence that the resources of a great mind did not forsake him. In short, within the space of four years, he had beaten the proudest marshals of France. He had beaten Marmont, he had beaten Soult, who was himself considered as a host; he had beaten Massena and Key, and Jourdan. In no one instance did he lead a British army into the field, in which they were not crowned with glory and success. He presented the new and grand spectacle of four years successes, without any of the disasters that are naturally attendant upon military
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operations. It was not necessary to press these things upon the attention of the House, they were in the recollection of every person. The questions now for them to consider were; first, What was the policy; and, 2dly, What were the means of rewarding such services? With respect to the policy of rewarding military services, although there were many questions of policy, in the consideration of which he would not refer for examples to the councils of the enemy, there could not however be a better policy than theirs, in so far as it regarded rewards for military service. Let them look to France; could they find in that country one general of any merit, who was not loaded with all the rewards and the honours that it was in the power of their ruler to confer? Different, indeed, far different were they from the rewards and the honours of the gallant marquis; different in the grace that belonged to them; different in the services that gained them, and in the principle on which they were bestowed. They, it was true, were highly rewarded, but their rewards were such as the brave Wellington would disdain to accept. A right hon. gentleman (Mr. Canning) had truly stated upon a former occasion, that though placed at the head of the Portuguese army, the pay attendant upon which situation was not less than 8,000 l. a year, when asked to accept that pay, he answered, that whatever services were in his power, he would be always willing to perform for Portugal; but as he received the pay of his own sovereign, he would not accept of it from another. The pay had been suffered to accumulate in the expectation that his feelings might at some time be prevailed upon to accept it. He was apprised that the money was to be delivered to him, but with a generosity never before excelled, with the noble self-denial of a soldier, he begged it should be disposed of for the Portuguese army.—Reverting to the system of the French army, the noble lord observed, that not only were the successful officers of that army rewarded with such honours as could be bestowed on them, but with possessions (which it was a disgrace to accept) granted out of the countries which they had devastated, in pursuance of that unjustifiable principle on which modern France had uniformly acted, of making the territory of one sovereign afford the means of desolating the dominions of another—Happily a different system pre-

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vailed, and he trusted would ever prevail in this country. The troops of Great. Britain went forth to fight for the interests and tranquillity of other nations as well as of their own; and their officers, although they might accept the honours conferred on them by the legitimate sovereigns of the countries in whose cause they were contending, were not disposed to avail themselves of any pecuniary advantage, unless it flowed from the country to which they belonged.—He now came to consider what, under all the circumstances of the case, it appeared to him to be becoming in parliament to grant in the present instance. If he had to consider lord Wellington's services in a similar point of view to that which called forth the munificence of parliament on a former occasion—if he had to consider them under circumstances similar to those under which lord Nelson's services had been considered—if such a calamity had occurred as the death of the noble marquis (and no greater calamity could befall the country than the loss of such a treasure);'if the noble marquis were by such a melancholy occurrence put out of the reach of the further favour of the crown and the further notice of parliament, he should then, in submitting a proposition to the Committee on behalf of the noble marquis's family, be influenced by a very different feeling; but, considering that lord Wellington was comparatively young in the service, considering that he was placed in a great crisis, which had, indeed, principally arisen out of the noble lord's own exertions in the peninsula; considering that he might yet render important advantages to his country and to the world, he was not willing, however high his merit, that the honours of the crown and the bounty of parliament should be at once exhausted upon him. Under these circumstances he was anxious to submit to the Committee such a proposition as should at once mark their sense of his great and glorious services, and their recollection that he might, and in all probability would, experience the further favour of the sovereign and the further bounty of parliament. An additional motive to a concurrence in the vote which he should have the honour to propose, and which he was sure that the Committee would seize with avidity, was, that by a happy coincidence of circumstances, the manor of Wellington, from which the noble lord derived his title, had passed from its former owner
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into the possession of an individual who would be too happy, if parliament agreed to the proposed vote, to surrender it in order that it might be handed down to posterity, as the spot granted by the legislature in testimony of their approbation of the services of that illustrious individual by whom that title was first assumed. With this view, he was persuaded that the Committee would deem that he best discharged his duty by proposing that a sum of money should be vested in trustees for the purchase of lands to descend with the title of Wellington, and to be enjoyed by the future representatives of the noble marquis. He would, therefore, not trespass further on the time of the House, but conclude with moving, "That it is the opinion of this Committee, that a sum, not exceeding 100,000 l. be granted to his Majesty, to be vested in trustees, for the use of the marquis of Wellington and such other persons on whom the title of marquis of Wellington shall descend, and to be employed in the purchase of lands, tenements and hereditaments to accompany the said title, and that the said sum be issued and paid without any fee or other deduction whatsoever."
Mr. Whitshed Keenedid not rise for the purpose of opposing the motion. In all military cases, when a reward was asked, proper attention should be paid in proportioning it to the quantity of forces by which the achievement had been performed; but the success of the marquis of Wellington, especially considering the means he had at his disposal, had far surpassed the most sanguine expectations. Considering the price of landed property, he did not conceive the present grant as too considerable, and when he reflected that the marquis of Wellington's services were warm in the minds of every one he even thought that the House might have gone farther.
Sir Francis Burdettsaid, that however strong the claims of lord Wellington might be, he could not think that they were much advanced by the advocacy of the noble lord or of the hon. gentleman who had just sat down. The noble lord had dwelt, with much satisfaction, on the peculiar advantages and blessings of our happy constitution, under which such opportunities were afforded of rewarding merit; but before this praise was entirely acquiesced in, there were two considerations which presented themselves to those who were appointed the guardians of the pub-

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lic property—namely, the merit of the claimant in the first place, and in the second, one of not inferior importance, out of what fund the proposed remuneration ought to come. On this last point he was of opinion, that while such enormous funds were in the hands and at the disposal of government, and while the amount of taxation was so great and so complicated, as to render its collection in a great degree impossible—while all this was the case, ministers ought to be ashamed to apply to the public purse. In the resources and the patronage they possessed, there were surely abundant means of remuneration; and it should be recollected, that when there was a general outcry against the number of sinecure places, the ready and constant answer was, that these places in the hands of government enabled them to reward the services performed by the servants of the public. If this were the defence, there could be no doubt that the funds accruing from those places should be appropriated as they were said to be. But there was also another fund on which it would have been more becoming in ministers to have drawn—he meant the Droits of Admiralty, which strictly ought to be appropriated to reward the services of naval officers, except where they were applied to the purpose which had been stated the other night, of indemnity in the case of American captures, in the event of a peace with that power. But when this fund was employed in grants to the princes of the blood, who did not hesitate to accept of them, and in other purposes equally foreign from their original and proper designation, he then thought that it might also be found fit to apply them on the present occasion also. With respect to the conduct of the noble marquis who was the subject of the present motion, the noble lord had told them that retreat was no proof of demerit; unquestionably not; and there were many instances on record of late years, in which retreats had been conducted in such a manner, and under such circumstances, as placed them far beyond the most brilliant victories; but this was the first time he ever heard that there was merit or glory in a most disastrous retreat. He was not perfectly sure that the military hospitals had not been abandoned, but from all that could be known from returns, private letters, &c. there was reason to believe that the losses incurred in the retreat from Burgos were not much less than in
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that of general Moore. Though a retreat might be no proof of demerit on the part of a general, he could not think it furnished grounds on which to call for parliamentary remuneration. To him, as a man of a plain way of thinking, it appeared, that the results of the campaign had been disaster and defeat. The victory of Salamanca appeared to be a victory forced upon lord Wellington. After that victory he could wish it to be explained whether it was good conduct to proceed against Burgos, whether in the conduct of that siege there was a want of ability in the commander, whether the project was a bad one, or whether the ministers of this country had given him positive orders to advance against it without furnishing him with the means of taking it. In one of lord Wellington's dispatches there was a singular paragraph; "Your lordship is aware I had little hopes of success at Burgos; yet after the battle of Salamanca it was necessary to proceed against Burgos, to ensure the success of the campaign." Thus, then, the consequence of that victory was disaster. He did not wish to undervalue the services of Lord Wellington, but the victories he had gained in Spain had none of the characteristics which distinguished those of the duke of Marlborough. The advantages that general gained he retained; yet it was not till after the decisive battle of Blenheim that parliament rewarded his services. Now in the peninsula it had been observed, and by military men too, that marquis Wellington had brought his army into difficulties, but his men had fought him out of them again, and that in the capture of the fortresses which he had won, a waste of life was to be complained of. This he understood to have been the case at Ciudad Rodrigo and Badajoz, which places had been stormed without a breach being previously made. A similar complaint he had heard respecting Burgos. He did not wish to divide the House on the grant, but he wished to move that the consideration of the grant should be deferred till some enquiry had been made into this extraordinary campaign. He did not see that flattering success which the noble lord thought he saw in the siege of Cadiz having been raised by the enemy. The cause of Spain to him appeared infinitely more hopeless than it was at the commencement of the campaign. If lord Wellington had never marched to Madrid, and if he had not

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gained the battle of Salamanca, there would have been infinitely more hope than there was after those events had taken place, seeing the Spaniards had not joined us with that spirit with which ministers deluded themselves, and would fain delude the House to believe in existence. The reverse of this appeared to him to be the fact, and therefore he thought the case of the peninsula more deplorable than ever. He wished to move, "that the consideration of the grant be deferred till after the holidays."
Mr. Robinsonobserved, that though the hon. baronet had professed his ignorance of military affairs, he had nevertheless dealt with no sparing hand in military censures. The hon. baronet's opinions were so erroneous, that he could not possibly conceive how he had formed them, or where he had procured his information. He had talked indeed of military authorities, but without naming them, and he was aware that it would be useless to press the hon. baronet on that head. He had asserted that Ciudad Rodrigo had been stormed before a breach had been effected; the contrary was notorious; a breach had been first effected, and that breach, although most gallantly defended, was stormed afterwards; nor did he think that all the anonymous military authorities, quoted by the hon. baronet, could point out to him any other way of taking a town. At Badajoz two breaches had been effected, and it was owing to the attention of the enemy being diverted by a front attack on those very breaches, that general Picton succeeded in converting his false attack on the castle into a real one—a case not unfrequent in war, and always within the calculations of the general, as was the case with the marquis of Wellington. The same mistake seemed as if fatally to follow the hon. baronet when talking of the attack on Burgos, for no less than five breaches had been effected in that fortress, by sapping and mining. It was true the storming did not succeed, because the place was most bravely and ably defended; indeed such a resistance seldom was exhibited; but in the failure of that enterprize, of which he never entertained any sanguine hopes, he was at a loss to discover how lord Wellington was to blame. The hon. gentleman next adverted to the picture drawn of lord Wellington's retreat by the hon. baronet, at which he could not sufficiently express his astonishment. Where could the hon.
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baronet possibly have got his information? He had talked of our hospitals having been abandoned; in this, however, he could assure him, that he had been completely misinformed. Some few of our sick, whose removal would have been attended with certain death, had been, perhaps, left behind in the hospitals, as was usual in such cases; but he could assure the hon. baronet for his satisfaction, that the retreat had been effected in the most complete order. There was no haste, no trepidation, no uncertainty; the measure had been foreseen, formed a part of a general plan, and all the necessary precautions had been taken. The enemy did not come up in force against our army—there were only partial affairs between the van-guards and the rearguards, and the amount of the loss on each day, except the last, had been transmitted by the marquis of Wellington, and regularly inserted in the Gazette. On that last day, the noble general had indeed mentioned that our troops had suffered severely, but nothing very disastrous could be concluded from that expression, as the distant cannonading had lasted only one day, and as the enemy had afterwards desisted from following our troops.—Adverting next to the hon. baronet's historical recollections, the hon. gentleman was sorry to find that in this he was no more at home than he was on military affairs.—The hon. baronet had stated that it was not till after the battle of Blenheim that the duke of Marlborough had received parliamentary remuneration; it was a fact, however, that long before that battle, and as early as the 10th of December in the year 1702, the duke of Marlborough had received from parliament an annuity of 5,000 l.;* and Blenheim was, besides, the first victory of any importance he had obtained. Not so with the marquis of Wellington: it was not for the victory of Salamanca alone that the vote of 100,000 l. was demanded for the noble marquis. The whole of his life had been devoted to the service of his country. All the advantages obtained in Spain were owing to his military genius, and if ever there was a case which called for an expression of national gratitude, it was the case of the marquis of Wellington.
Sir Frederick Floodwas sorry that the defalcation in the revenue, during the two
* See the Parliamentary History, vol. 6, p. 57.

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last years, prevented him from making the motion he at first intended to submit to the House, which was to double the sum proposed to be voted for lord Wellington, besides a monument to be erected in the country which gave him birth, he meant Ireland, for he was Ireland's pride and England's hope. It was cruel to impose titles on men who had served their country, without at the same time giving them the means of supporting them. He was now a marquis: he might next be made a duke, without the means of supporting those high dignities. It was a maiden grant, and ought to be vigorously executed (a laugh.) We should have in this metropolis a Wellington-house, as well as a Marlborough-house, and he should give his most hearty assent to a proposition for such an object.
Mr. Protheroe,in a maiden speech, said he should not follow the noble lord, or the hon. baronet, through the military details into which they had entered; but he must say, that he thought the hon. baronet had been guilty of the indiscretion which he unfoundedly charged on the marquis of Wellington—he had made an attack where there was no breach. Had the hon. baronet considered the subject with more deliberation, he must have seen, that there might be such a thing as a bold advance without rashness, and a skilful retreat without disgrace. He thought the House should cheerfully agree to the Message of the Prince Regent. Even posthumous honours were useful, and were paid to the immortal lord Nelson, as a stimulus to naval exertion: but with how much greater satisfaction should we be struck, if we could see the Nelson of the army,—the man whose name, like his, might become the common appellative of a hero,—living among us, and reaping the honours due to his services, in the munifificence, the admiration, and affection of his countrymen? He hoped that nothing would interfere to detract from that munificence, and to diminish that admiring affection. The hon. baronet had alluded to the distresses of the country; but, although he thought himself as well acquainted with them, at least with the mercantile distresses, as the hon. baronet, he should not enter on the topic at present, as a fitter time would by and bye occur for that discussion: he felt as deeply for them, and wished as ardently to relieve them, as any of those persons who most indulged in lamentations over them; yet he
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thought, with respect to those distresses, that there was a time to speak of them, and a time to forbear. And he was sure, that the commercial interests of the country would feel indignant, were they to hear that their distresses stood in the way of the munificence of parliament. Instead of looking upon these distresses as a reason for a small or inadequate remuneration to lord Wellington, he would recommend to his Majesty's ministers a rigid economy in the several departments of the state and in the public expenditure, and this was the source from which he thought that a well-timed generosity might most effectually arise. By an union of the one and other, this would not only be a great and a powerful, but a prosperous, an united, and a happy nation.
Lord Cochraneexpressed his regret, that instead of internal warfare, a system of external annoyance was not adopted, which, he contended, would be productive of the greatest advantages to the country, and would not only be more serviceable to the cause of Russia, but would enable government to dictate terms of peace to Buonaparté. This the noble lord thought so plain, as to preclude the necessity of demonstration. He concluded by assenting to the motion, as he was convinced that lord Wellington had done every thing which he could possibly have done, under all the circumstances in which he was placed.
Mr. Whitbreadhad had the misfortune to differ heretofore with a majority of the House, both with respect to the merits and services of lord Wellington, and the remuneration which was bestowed upon them. With respect, however, to the grant which was now proposed, it met with his entire approbation. By acceding to this vote, he did not conceive that he was expressing any opinion with respect to the situation of things in Spain: he at present wished to be considered as having consented to the vote merely in consideration of lord Wellington's own merits. If he had differed in opinion with others when the thanks of the House were asked for lord Wellington after the battle of Talavera, it was not because he did not think that the battle of Talavera was a great affair, but because he thought that lord Wellington had got his army into a great scrape, and that his army had fought bravely and extricated him. But he did not wish now to repeat what he had thought or said on former occasions. He

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was not a military man; and when he was called on in his place to decide on the merits of military men, it was his duty to give the best opinion which he could form under all the circumstances of the case. It was the less to be wondered at that he had not formed a correct estimate of the merits of lord Wellington at that time, as his plan had not developed itself till the first retreat of marshal Massena, which led to operations at last terminating in the battle of Salamanca. By this development he had stamped his character as a great general. The operations of both the French and the English generals were masterly. It had been acknowledged by lord Wellington, that he had never seen a more masterly retreat than Massena's; and the emperor of the French was understood to have been well pleased with that retreat. It had in particular been recorded of the part which marshal Ney had had in that affair, that it was one of the most meritorious military retreats ever known. With respect to the sieges of Ciudad Rodrigo, Badajoz and Burgos, never was more consummate valour and desperate courage shewn than on these occasions. At the siege of Badajoz, Philippon, and his brave troops, did every thing it was possible for men to do, before surrendering; but by the masterly conduct of the British, and in a particular manner by the efforts made by general Picton, that important fortress fell into the hands of lord Wellington. In war, the commander who attempted such daring achievements as these had only to show that they had succeeded to justify the undertaking them. He must pity the brave men who fell in the siege of Ciudad Rodrigo; but my lord Wellington had succeeded in that undertaking; and by that noble daring he had saved many lives which would have been lost at other places, so that the waste of lives during the whole campaign was on that account less than if that siege had not taken place. The plan of lord Wellington had been brought to a close, at the battle of Salamanca. He believed he had never intended to fight that battle; he was then in full retreat, and determined to continue that retreat. The most skilful manœuvring took place on both sides for two days, till at the last an opportunity was given him, by the fault of the French general, which led to the victory. The pursuit of the French was carried on for some time, and at last abandoned. Its object was the liberation of Madrid, and that object had been at-
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tained. He had beaten Marmont, Massena, and the pretended king of Spain; and he thought that by the taking of Madrid he would rouse that spirit in the Spaniards, which then lay dormant, and which is still latent. He hoped that they would begin to do better than they had formerly done. He afterwards advanced and commenced the siege of Burgos, and during that advance he believed that general Clausel had shewn himself a worthy antagonist. In the siege of Burgos he had certainly failed,—not because he had not made both breaches and assaults;—for, from the account of the gallant Dubreton himself, which he had that day seen in the newspaper, it appeared that no fewer than five breaches and assaults had been made,—but because these breaches and assaults had all been successfully withstood. An hon. gentleman who had spoken before him, and who always spoke well on every question (Mr. Robinson), took off from the merit of lord Wellington, by not stating the case as it exactly was. Whether the siege of Burgos was proper or not was a military question, which it was not for him to decide; but he was bound to suppose that lord Wellington had good reasons for the siege. After what he had seen, he thought it was no wonder if he expected to make up in celerity what he wanted in strength. He certainly had in the course of this campaign afforded Spain a great opportunity of making exertions in its own cause. He could not agree with the noble lord in the soliloquy which he, the other night, put into the mouth of that gallant commander, beginning with My great genius;" but he believed that the noble lord had conducted the campaign with considerable military skill; and it appeared by intercepted communications and other channels of information, that the French marshals themselves, entertained an high opinion of his lordship's military skill, from the manner in which he conducted his retreating army across the Agueda. He was convinced that the House and the country at large, were fully sensible that lord Wellington had performed great military services; and if the crown thought proper to reward them with the honour of a marquisate, the House and the public would think it right to vote him immediately the means of supporting that dignity, without waiting for the discussion of what might be spared from indirect and precarious funds, the application of which might

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form a subject of distinct consideration on a future occasion. He did not like the comparisons which had been made between the noble lord and the duke of Marlborough. Each of those illustrious commanders had sufficient merits of their own, upon which their fame might rest; but since the comparison had been made, he would say, that it was precisely upon pecuniary points that the character of the duke of Marlborough was vulnerable; whereas upon those points the disinterestedness of lord Wellington was perfectly known; and in those points he was a truly meritorious servant of the public. We were told that some great statesmen were somewhere to be found who would have done a great deal more in the peninsula, if they had been in office. He did not wish to see those conjurors in office, as he thought that the resources of the country were already strained as far as they would bear in the prosecution of the war. The right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had, in his defence of ministers, told the House, the other night, that they had spent upwards of eleven millions on this war, in the course of the last eleven months. Now as he was sure that every thing confided to lord Wellington had been employed with judgment, he thought a vote of 10,000 l. not too much to reward his great services. He, therefore, entirely concurred in the grant of the sum proposed, and thought that it should be given by a direct vote.
Mr. Canningdeclared, that he should deem it an encroachment upon the time and a waste of the attention of the House, if after the opinions expressed and the military criticisms delivered on this occasion, he were to attempt to do more than to state how fully he participated in the admiration felt at lord Wellington's achievements, and in a sense of the justness of that remuneration which had been proposed. He was inclined to concur most cordially with the proposition, not only on those grounds which had been adverted to, particularly by an hon. gentleman (Mr. Protheroe) who formed one example of the acquisitions which the new parliament had made, but on others of a more general nature. He concurred in it from a feeling, that we had within the last few years raised ourselves to the same equality at land, more than which we had possessed at sea, and that to the individual to whom we owed this augmentation of glory and advantage, no remuneration could be too
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splendid or too generous. No man who looked back at what our military policy was some time ago, and compared it with our present views and character, but must see that through the success and merits of lord Wellington we had become a military people, and that by a series of achievements, each rising above the other in grandeur, he had, although yet in the youth of his glory, acquired for himself a renown equal to that of the first captain of his age. When the House looked back to that period at which our warlike preparations were confined to plans of fortifying the Thames instead of driving the enemy beyond the Tormes and the Ebro, they could not fail, not merely to recognise in lord Wellington the decus et tutamen patriæ,' as one who had not merely formed a school in which others might be taught to succeed and follow him in his career of glory, but to perceive in him at the same time the hero, who, whilst he wielded the thunder of his native land, was the tutelar genius of allied and dependent states, the protector of oppressed and prostrate powers. The picture which history would trace, for the instruction of posterity, would unite, therefore, with the figure of the successful commander, the attributes of a benevolent spirit, extending a guardian influence over recovering, though fallen nations. All must admit, that by the exertion in Spain, Europe had been enabled to reflect on her condition; and when Buonaparté's situation, though perhaps not irretrievable, was contemplated, we had not only evidence of this, but an illustration of the different principles on which the war was conducted. Lord "Wellington advancing to the succour and liberation of Spain—Buonaparté marching to the devastation of Russia, exhibited striking examples of the different objects by which the two empires were directed in their mutual hostility. At such a moment, when
Expectation sits in the air And hides a sword from hilt unto the point, With crowns, imperial crowns and coronets—
it might not be useless to compare the rewards which Buonaparté was anticipating from conquest and desolation, with those pure enjoyments which lord Wellington sought for in the acknowledgments of a benefited and grateful country. An hon. baronet had expressed a wish that the sum proposed to be voted should be taken from other funds. For his own part he was confident that the people would feel de-

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frauded, were they to be deprived of the opportunity of doing justice to their great commander, and if the House were to attempt to scrape up a provision out of the leavings of obscure and secret funds, he felt that they ought not to pollute the vote, by seeming to apologise for the gratitude they evinced, or by endeavouring to show that they were grateful at no expence. He rather hoped that they would be anxious to show, that as the crown had run before them in one instance, they were resolved to keep pace with its wishes in another. He understood it was proposed to lay out the 100,000 l. in the purchase of lands to be attached to the title of Wellington. Now, lord Wellington's children were all sons, but they might have only female issue. He presumed that it was not intended the title should fail in that case. He thought it necessary not only that the immediate descendants of such a man should be provided for, but that the grant of that night should insure to their posterity that result which Englishmen could not but wish to see,—as a lasting monument to the memory of their great ancestor.
Lord Castlereaghobserved, that matter would come to be considered in the Bill. It was the wish of ministers that the grant should be made on the most liberal principles.
Sir F. Burdett's Amendment was then put and negatived without a division. After which the original Resolution was agreed to.

PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE RESPECTING THE MARQUIS OF WELLINGTON.
The order of the day being read, for taking into consideration his Royal High" ness's Message, respecting the marquis of Wellington,
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid:—In rising, my lords, to propose an Address in answer to his Royal Highness's most gracious Message, for the purpose of expressing your lordships' concurrence in forwarding his Royal Highness's intention, I am sure I should be wasting your lordships' time, if I were to say one word in recommendation of such a motion. After the able and eloquent speech of my noble friend (earl Bathurst) on a former evening, in moving the thanks of this House to that gallant and distinguished general, and after the able speeches of other noble lords, and of the noble marquis opposite (Lansdowne), upon the same occasion, it would be impossible, my lords, for me to add one expression which could evince more of my own admiration, or raise a higher opinion of the noble marquis's conduct. At the same time, I will venture to occupy a small portion of your lordships' attention in stating a few circumstances respecting this great general, which I think are entitled to consideration. His Royal Highness has stated, that in wishing to confer upon the noble marquis, by an act of munificence, what will enable him to support his merited dignities, he has taken into consideration the signal services the noble marquis has performed for his country, and these services, so constant and unwearied, cannot be too much valued. For four campaigns, my lords, has the marquis of Wellington devoted the powers of his body and mind, to the conduct of the war in the peninsula. In the course of that period, he has been opposed to the most celebrated and experienced of the French generals, to Soult, to Victor, to Jourdan, to Massena, and to Marmont, and not

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only, my lords, has he been opposed to all these, but he has overcome them. Indeed, when we reflect that the whole of this period has been devoted to the cause of his country, without the exception of a day, when we reflect what privations he must have endured, that no considerations of personal ease could divert him from his object, that no fatigue, that no considerations of private policy could shake him in the discharge of these important public duties, we are led to wonder at that strength both of body and of mind which could support him under all these circumstances, and for so long a period. The marquis of Wellington, my lords, is justly sensible of the high honours which have been conferred upon him, for no greater perhaps ever fell to the lot of any man; eight times he has received the thanks of parliament, and in six out of those eight times he was commander in chief. But in respect to any pecuniary compensation, independent of the reward which on a former occasion was voted by the legislature to lord Wellington, instead of having had, during all these campaigns, any opportunity of increasing his fortune, he has, I believe, on many occasions experienced its diminution. I shall not detain your lordships further, than by proceeding to make that proposition which I am convinced will be unanimous, because it is one in which you are called upon to concur, in justice to lord Wellington, and to yourselves. Because, my lords, in conferring upon lord Wellington a reward for his past and distinguished services, you only do that to which he is entitled as an individual; and when you take care to reward so great and undisputed services in such an individual, you adopt the wisest policy for the preservation and security of your country. I may here add what more properly comes first under consideration in another place, that it is the intention of government to propose a grant of 100,000 l. to be vested in landed property, for the use of the noble marquis and his heirs, and in such manner as will be more particularly described in the act for that purpose.—The noble earl concluded, by moving an humble Address to the Prince Regent, thanking him for his most gracious Message, and assuring him that their lordships will most readily concur in carrying his Royal Highness's intentions into effect.
Lord Hollandhad no disposition to make any observation upon the present
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motion, after the able and just mode in which the marquis of Wellington's distinguished services had been described; in every word of which he most heartily concurred. He had only to remark that the proposition of the noble earl had his entire approbation, and he felt satisfied in hearing the statement and extent of the grant intended, and the manner in which it was meant to be appropriated.
The Address was then agreed to nem. diss.

VICE CHANCELLOR'S BILL.
Lord Hollandwas desirous of submitting to their lordships' attention, a motion for further information respecting the Bill introduced by the noble and learned lord (Redesdale). The noble and learned lord, on a former night, had expressed his intention to oppose every proposition for delay. But he (lord Holland) was no further desirous of delay, than that before the House passed a measure of such importance, they should have every information requisite to form their judgment upon it. He, therefore, intended to move for the Report of the Committee of the House of Commons, appointed to inquire into the causes of delay, in the decision of suits in the Court of Chancery. He was the more desirous of having this information before them, as it would enable the House better to decide upon the propriety of the Bill, and give time for the attendance of several noble lords who, no doubt, would be desirous of delivering their sentiments upon the subject. There were many objections he entertained against this measure, which he would not enter into at present, but which would probably be stated upon the third reading; and he trusted the noble and learned lord would so far accede to a full consideration of his intended measure, as to postpone its final consideration till after the holidays. In the mean time he should make the motion of which he had given notice, and against which, he believed, there could be no objection.
Lord Redesdaledid not rise to oppose the motion of the noble lord, but he could assure the House, that no information could be derived from the Report alluded to, capable of altering their opinions upon the measure which he had the honour to propose. Their lordships would recollect that this subject had been under their consideration for nearly three years; that a committee had been appointed, who were unanimously of opinion that the evil com-

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plained of required immediate remedy; and that the same committee, composed of persons of all others most competent to suggest a remedy, had recommended the measure now proposed. With respect to the motion of the noble lord, it only went to the production of a Report which had little connection with the causes and grounds of the present measure. The Report was made by a committee appointed to enquire into the causes of delay in the proceedings of the Court of Chancery, and chiefly arose, he believed, out of a disposition to ascertain whether the causes in that court had increased. The causes in that court had certainly increased, and, from the increase of causes in all the courts below, the Lord Chancellor was precluded from deriving that assistance from the judges, which was given to my lord Hardwicke and others. But the increase of causes in the Court of Chancery did not apply to the increase of Appeals and Writs of Error in the House of Lords. The arrear of these Appeals and Writs of Error was enormous; it now amounted to more than 270, which would require from 12 to 13 years to decide, according to the mode in which these causes had been hitherto decided, without taking into calculation the accumulating arrear which would take place in the interval. This delay in the decision of Appeals was a growing evil, and one of enormous magnitude and great grievance to the suitor.—The noble and learned lord next proceeded to notice the hardships of many individual cases, where the parties were put to the most serious loss and the greatest inconvenience. In one instance, the rents and profits now depending, in consequence of delay, amounted to 30,000 l. and, in others, his lordship shewed what injurious effects might result from a further delay on the death of the parties. The measure proposed by the present Bill had been discussed in the last session, and neither the noble lord, nor any other peer, had then suggested any alteration in lieu of the present; When the Bill miscarried in the other House, he had promised to bring it forward this session; and, in now proposing it to their lordships' consideration, he had kept his word and discharged his duty. It was intended that a Vice Chancellor should attend to the business of Chancery, while the noble and learned lord on the woolsack sat from ten till three o'clock, for three days in the week, deciding cases now before the House. How-
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ever early this Bill might pass, a considerable part of the session was likely to elapse before it could be carried into effect. He was, therefore, inclined to oppose any measure whatever likely to produce delay, but at the same time he could not object to the motion of the noble lord.
Upon the order of the day being read for going into a committee upon the Bill,
Lord Hollandagain rose, and addressed the House upon the subject of this measure. He was the more induced to state his sentiments, in consequence of what had fallen from the noble and learned lord. The noble and learned lord had intimated his surprize, that no other measure had been proposed by him instead of that recommended in the present Bill. With respect to himself, he did not consider his knowledge equal to the task; and he deemed the argument a little extraordinary which would infer, that because he did not possess that legal knowledge which was most competent to suggest the fittest plan to be adopted, it was to be inferred that he could not consistently state his objections to the one proposed. The noble and learned lord would do him the justice to recollect, that on a former occasion he had not publicly, but privately, communicated to him his objections to the present measure. This was, however, a serious subject, as it affected the state and the law of the country; and although he was afraid he might discover ignorance in his own ideas respecting it, yet, when he saw the noble and learned lord so anxious to push this measure in the absence of those who could have more ably pointed out its impropriety, he felt himself particularly called upon to express his objections to the Bill. With respect to all that had been stated as to the magnitude of the evil complained of, and the immediate necessity for its being remedied, he and the noble and learned lord were perfectly agreed; but he entertained very serious objections against the mode now recommended, not because it would bean unconstitutional measure—no, he had formerly stated that this would be a material alteration in the constitution of this country, and certainly he thought so still—but with all the admiration he ever should cherish for the British constitution, he would be ever ready to acquiesce in any alteration which should be proved to be necessary, and likely to be effectual for the purposes for which it was intended. He begged,

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in speaking upon this subject, to be plainly understood, and that when he mentioned his objections, he meant them not to apply to the noble and learned lord who presided on the woolsack, for whom no one could entertain a higher opinion. With regard to that high office, no one was more anxious that it should be rewarded with a salary commensurate to its importance, and its utility in the constitution. In saying this, nevertheless, he lamented that a part of the income of that office arose from bankruptcies—from the distressed property of the subjects of the country. Not one farthing of this income did he desire to see retrenched; but it would be more satisfactory to the person filling that high office, that this portion of his income should arise to him by a direct grant in another manner. Perhaps if an officer were appointed to administer the bankrupt laws, instead of the lord chancellor, it might relieve that high officer so much as to enable him to dispatch the business of that House and the Court of Chancery. But he felt strong objections to the division of the office of lord high chancellor itself. That office he regarded as one most important in the state, and one most useful to the country. As it was now constituted, it could not be filled by an incompetent person; it must be filled by one deeply imbued with legal knowledge; and he left it for the House to consider how important it must ever be to the state, that such a person should have a seat in the councils of his sovereign, and how useful it must be to the country that the head of the law should be dignified by such a station in the government. He was not speaking these sentiments with consideration to the conduct of the noble and learned lord on the woolsack; but when he looked to future times, he was apprehensive that the consequence of this division of the office would be, that the lord high chancellor would become a mere political character in the state, and that the vice-chancellor would be the real and only legal decider of the law. There might be other means of remedy more effectual, and not likely to be attended with mischiefs greater than those it was intended to cure. He instanced the relief the lord chancellor might experience in altering the administration of the law respecting bankruptcies. The noble and learned lord who spoke last was entitled to much praise for the attention he had paid to the alteration of a part of the law
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similar to that of bankruptcy; and he trusted he would pursue his intention of supplying the remedies which had been so often applied to the shame of the legislature—he meant temporary acts of insolvency. That measure of the noble and learned lord would require the appointment of a distinct court, and he did not perceive why a similar and distinct provision might not be made in the case of bankrupts.
Lord Redesdalehad no desire to have this measure passed through parliament before the holidays; but under the consideration of its necessity, he trusted their lordships would agree to its passing that House, in order that it might go to the Commons as speedily as possible. With respect to the objection mentioned by the noble lord, as to the division of the office of chancellor, it must be recollected, that still the lord high chancellor would be constantly occupied in the decision of most intricate and important points of law before that House. It was impossible, therefore, that the office could be filled by an incompetent person, any more than in its present constitution. The lord chancellor would then equally, as now, be under the observation of the public; and, considering the importance of his legal knowledge in the advice of the crown, it was highly improbable that any minister would venture to appoint any other than a person whose talents and learning fitted him for the situation. The noble lord had suggested the propriety of separating the administration of the bankrupt law from the office of chancellor; but cases of vital consequence to the commerce of the country, more so than all the cases put together in the courts below, came before him for decision; and it would be perhaps dangerous to this department of the law, if the adjudication of these cases were committed to any other jurisdiction.—With regard to the salary of the new judge, there were other sources from whence it might be paid, without burthening the people. It would be considered, that the property of suitors, by various accidents, fell into the hands of Chancery, and had created a fund of considerable magnitude. The amount of this property now vested in the bank of England, exceeded 400,000 l. and it would not require half of that sum to create a permanent salary for the vice-chancellor, and there could be no objection to the application of that fund for the purpose.
The Bill then passed through a Committee, and was ordered to be reported tomorrow.