Sitting of 22 May 1811

PETITION FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF TIPPERARY.
Mr. Montagu Mathewpresented a Petition from the freeholders and inhabitants of the county of Tipperary, comprising persons professing various religious persuasions, setting forth,
"That the petitioners, being actuated by sentiments of attachment to the true principles of the constitution, and sincerely desirous to promote the internal concord and general prosperity of the country by every measure of conciliation, good will, and justice towards all classes and descriptions of their fellow subjects, beg leave to represent to the House, that they view, with particular regret and disapprobation, the existing code of penal and disabling statutes, which aggrieve and degrades the Roman Catholics of these realms adhering to the faith of their fore-fathers; and that this obnoxious code, at all times unjust in its principle, and violating an ancient and solemn treaty, appears to us, at this critical period of national exigency, to be peculiarly ill-timed and unwise, and that, besides infringing the sacred rights of private conscience, and violating the first principles of legislation, it insults and depresses every individual of the Catholic community, stigmatizes them as unworthy of confidence, and proscribes them as aliens in their native land; and that thus disuniting the people, thus prolonging needless dissentions, and alienating the great majority of the Irish population from the state, this code is the certain source of national weakness and imminent public danger: without the zealous co-operation of the Catholic community, that right arm of Ireland, no reflecting man can confidently reckon upon an effectual resistance to the common foe in the trying hour of peril; and it is but natural to presume that such co-operation will be best ensured by augmenting their interest in the maintenance of the constitution, by extending to them its full benefits without reserve or restriction, by acts of substantial justice, and even of marked kindness, towards this faithful and well-deserving people, from whom, perhaps, within a very short period, the most arduous services, and of inestimable value, will be necessarily and anxiously demanded; and that the petitioners are of opinion, therefore, that no other measure can so effectually tend to the firm defence and
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preservation of these islands, to internal union and general security, as a full and complete restoration of all the rights and benefits of the constitution to the Catholic people; justice no less than sound policy demands the immediate adoption of this measure; liberty of conscience, and the unfettered exercise of private judgment in the choice of religion, are the inalienable birthright of every man, and cannot be invaded by human power without disrespect to that merciful Deity who tolerates all religions, and graciously accepts from all men the genuine worship of the heart in whatsoever language, and under every form; and that the experience of nation" has also shown that intolerance can never be practised with impunity; in its gloomy train are ever to be found national discord, disgrace, decay, and finally desolation of the most disastrous nature: may the Almighty avert such dire calamities from this empire; and that, as members of various religious communities, Protestants as well as Catholics, the petitioners disclaim all coercive laws concerning religious subjects, and they solemnly protest against the prolongation of a code founded in such coercion; and, however different their respective mode of faith, yet they cordially concur in earnestly praying) as the first and choicest blessing to Ireland, that those odious laws which inflict discord upon our country, and have long been reprobated by all humane and liberal men, may be altogether abandoned, and give place to such healing and conciliatory measures as shall restore to us the benefits of domestic union and tranquillity, efface even the remembrance of religious intolerance, and suffer not a vestige of it to remain in these islands; and that the petitioners, therefore, seriously beseech the House, to repeal all and every the penal disabling and exclusive laws which aggrieve and injure the Roman Catholics of these realms, and to reinstate them effectually in the full participation of all the rights and benefits of the laws and constitution of this empire, equally and in common with their fellow subjects, without any distinction of religious communion."
Ordered, That the said Petition do lie upon the table.

MR. MALLISON'S LIFE PRESERVER.
Mr. Whitbreadrose to call the attention of the House to the Petition of Mr. Mallison, presented by him yesterday, praying for an inquiry into the merits of an invention

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for preserving the lives of seamen in cases of shipwreck, &c. The plan, he stated, had been brought forward two years ago, and the Treasurer of the Navy, he himself, and various others had subscribed, with a view to have the merits of the invention brought to the test. The result of the experiments was a favourable impression as to the utility of the plan. The invention was indeed very simple: it consisted merely of a piece of cork united by a strap, such as boys often swim upon. But the mode of application was new, and the simplicity of the thing was no good ground of objection to it. He had referred it to some naval friends, captains Ballantyne and Paget, who had tried it, and stated that it was effectual, for that no man who had it on could sink or drown. He therefore had thought it his duty to present the Petition yesterday, and he would now move for a Committee to take it into consideration.
Mr. Crokerwould not oppose the appointment of a Committee, if the House thought proper to agree to the motion; but he would propose the names of some gentlemen connected with the Admiralty. This was in truth no invention at all. It was exactly what they had all often swam upon—two pieces of cork, with the addition indeed of a covering of green baize, and a strap instead of a rope. Of the 87 inventions presented to the Admiralty Board within these few years, this was the worst and the most simple. Colonel Hanger had presented a very ingenious one. The Admiralty stated to him, that his invention was completely effectual for keeping a man afloat; but it was so cumbersome that he could do nothing else with it. He adverted to the furious attack made on the Admiralty Board by Mr. Mallison for their illegal and hellish opposition to his plan; and concluded by stating, that it was too trifling for any gentleman to waste his time upon.
Mr. Rosehad no doubt, that the invention was effectual to its object, though it was certainly a very simple one. But he did not think the simplicity of the invention a serious ground of objection. It was little else than the cork jacket in use long before; but Mr. Mallison certainly appeared to have the merit of applying it to a new purpose.
Mr. Whitbread,in reply to Mr. Croker, observed, that Mr. Hogarth, the inimitable caricaturist, had ridiculed the extravagant taste for projects, by representing a ponderous
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machine for drawing a cork out of a bottle. But he never before heard of an. attempt to turn an useful discovery into ridicule, merely on account of its simplicity. The hon. gent. had said, that one of the most ingenious inventions submitted to the Admiralty, was too cumbersome to enable the man who had it on to do any thing else than float. But this plan was not of this description, for a seaman who had it on might do any part of his duty. He then read an extract from a letter of captain Ballantyne, stating, that if he had these jackets on board, much anxiety, as to the safety of his crew, would he removed from his mind. When a boat went on dangerous service the captains would take care that the men were furnished with these jackets.
Captain Pagetstated his conviction of the utility of the plan; a conviction founded on experiments made by himself.
Mr. C. Adamsstated the great merit of the invention to be, that when a sailor had these corks attached to him, he was not encumbered in such a way as to prevent him from doing any duty whatever.
After a few words of explanation from Mr. Whitbread and Mr. Croker, the motion: was agreed to, and a Committee appointed accordingly.

COTTON WOOL BILL.
On the motion for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on the Cotton Wool Duty Bill,
Sir Robert Peelopposed it on the ground of the impolicy of imposing a tax upon the raw material, especially at a time when: the cotton manufacturers were starving. There was hardly an instance in which a tax had been laid on the raw material. He hoped this tax would not be persevered in, and inquired of the hon. gent. opposite, one of the members for the county of Lancaster, whether any application had been made to him on the subject.
Colonel Stanleyobserved, that he had made a communication on the subject to his constituents in Lancashire, whose interests were so nearly concerned, and he was anxious that the further proceedings upon it should be postponed for a few days, to give him an opportunity of receiving their sentiments.
Mr. Rosedeclared, that if he thought the manufacturers would sustain so serious an injury as that supposed by the hon. baronet, he would be the last man in the House to press the adoption of the measure; but when it was considered that the duty

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was only a penny a pound on an article selling at the price at which cotton did, he was persuaded that the apprehensions of the hon. baronet were groundless. Besides, it must be recollected, that the duty was not imposed on all cotton wool imported, but only on that which came from America.
Mr. Baringopposed the Bill as pregnant with danger and mischief to the country. When gentlemen had screwed up their courage to bring forward the Budget, it was pleasant, no doubt, to be informed that the dreaded new taxes had already been imposed. But there was this inconvenience in departing from the old mode of proposing the taxes, if any new taxes were to be imposed at the time of bringing forward the Budget, that those concerned had not sufficient notice of these Bills. The consequence was, that most pernicious plans of taxation might be carried into effect, while those chiefly interested were ignorant that any such plans were in contemplation. He admitted that taxes had, unfortunately, at times been imposed on raw materials; but these were comparatively harmless, because the amount was trifling. Here, however, the tax amounted to about 33 per cent. If the state of Europe had not been very much changed, ministers would never have ventured to impose a tax on the raw material, as the manufactures of Germany, &c. would have, in that case, driven ours out of the market. But he reminded them that the cotton manufactory was a very growing one in the United States; that a great number of cotton mills had been established in the neighbourhood of Boston; and that the United States already exported a large quantity of cotton twist. The whole quantity of cotton wool imported was 1,449,000 bags, and of this only 40,000 were imported from our own colonies. The United States preferred our manufactures, which was not the case with the inhabitants of Brazil. He was fully aware that America was at present commercially hostile to us, and all he wished to impress was, the danger to ourselves of adopting measures which we could not afterwards counteract. The branch of manufactures affected by this tax was one of the very first importance, and if it should be injured, the subsequent lowering of the duty would not avail to remedy the evil. He thought the raw material a very injudicious object of taxation, and more particularly as it was di-
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rected against our best customers. Sheep's wool, in his opinion, was a much fitter article, whatever might be at first the prejudices of the country gentlemen against any imposts upon it. Our cotton manufactures might be undersold or excluded, but our woollens could not be rivalled. Under all these circumstances he hoped the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consent to postpone the motion for a few days.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerexpressed much surprise at the exaggerated statements of the hon. gentleman. He contended that the duties had not hitherto depressed the manufacture, and that the price of cotton wool, which had varied from 12 d. to 2s. 6d. a pound clearly showed that an additional tax of 1d. could have no prejudicial influence. In the last year we have imported 136,000,000 pounds, while the average of the preceding six years was but 70,000,000 pounds. From America last year we received only 55,000,000, about one third of the whole quantity. He was aware that the East India cotton wool was inferior to that of America, but that of America was also inferior to that of Brazil. But when the House reflected on the state of the relations between this country and America, they would see the policy of persevering in the present measure. If, instead of increasing the duty as it regarded America, for the purpose of encouraging our own shipping, we were to take off the existing duties, the effect would not be to introduce a single yard more of our manufactures into the American States. The question was, whether in the situation in which we were placed, we should not give encouragement to trade in British cottons rather than in foreign cottons.
Mr. Whitbreadcensured government for not having taken the opinion of the hon. baronet and others who were qualified to judge on the subject, before they introduced the present measure. There was a Petition on the table from the cotton manufacturers, declaring that they were in a state of starvation. To these petitioners this new duty on the raw material was a direct affront. He reprobated the mode in which such taxes had been for five and twenty years introduced, from time to time, by the right hon. gent. opposite. (Mr. Rose), under the specious name of regulations. These regulations, however, always failed of success, although the commercial regulations of the enemy com-

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pletely succeeded. The emperor of France undertook to lock up the continent against our trade. By the Resolutions of that House it appeared that he had succeeded. We undertook to unlock the continent. By our own Resolutions it appeared that we had completely failed. Before the end of the session he would move for the recent correspondence between the British and American governments, and till that period he would delay entering upon the subject. If any thing could rouse the public attention, it would be the permanently injurious effects on the revenue of this country, which the perseverance in commercial hostility of Great Britain and America towards each other, must necessarily produce. He thought that, on consideration, the right hon. gent. would see the propriety of waiting till the hon. member for Lancashire had received the instructions of his constituents on the subject.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerrepeated that the new duty was not such as could possibly operate injuriously on the manufacturer. If the whole duty on the raw materials were taken off, he was persuaded that not an additional yard of our manufacture would be imported into any part of the world. He had no objection, however, to postpone the Committee on the Bill until tomorrow.
Sir R. Peelpressed the necessity of giving time for consideration.
Mr. Whitbreadrepresented the childishness of any delay which would be insufficient for the attainment of the wished for object. The right hon. gent., after speaking in such high terms, the other day, of the trade and revenues of the country, now confessed that America and the ports of the continent were so hermetically sealed against our trade, that even were all the duties taken off cotton wool, not a yard more would be sold than at present. Things could not continue long thus. Some convulsion must soon happen, whether triumphant to this country or to the enemy he would not anticipate; but if all the ports of the continent were open to British manufactures, still it would be found that, owing to our injudicious measures, America was able to supply herself.
Mr. Rosecontended that he had given sufficient notice of the introduction of this measure. America had over and over again imposed duties on British manufactures. This country had shown great forbearance in that respect; and the present
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measure was for the purpose of encouraging our own shipping.
After a few words from Mr. Baring, the Committee on the Bill was postponed to Friday, and the Bill was ordered to be printed.

MR. PALMER'S CLAIMS.
The Earl of Radnorcalled the attention of the House to the votes of the House of Commons of last night, by which it appeared, that an Address had been voted to the Prince Regent, praying his Royal Highness to order the sum of 54,000 l. to be paid to Mr. Palmer. He wished particularly to call the attention of their lordships to this circumstance, they having, on a former occasion, decided against the claim of Mr. Palmer.
The Earl of Lauderdaleobserved, that the proceeding alluded to by the noble earl, was inconsistent with the dignity and independence of that House as a separate branch of the legislature, namely, the voting, by address, of a considerable sum of money to an individual in a way in which their lordships could not regularly exercise their controuling or separate power as an independent branch-There were not many instances of proceedings of this kind. The last within his recollection was when the House of Com-

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mons, in a fit of enthusiasm towards a great and illustrious character in this country, voted the payment of his debts. That was a case of a very different nature. There, the House had not given any previous opinions. In the present instance, the Commons knew the decision of the House upon the subject, and that decision was, in the greater part, upon evidence communicated to their lordships by the Commons. It was a question of right upon which the House (the supreme court of Judicature) had decided. Let their lordships consider in what a situation they were placed. He could not devise a more flagrant case. The claims of Mr. Palmer had no just foundation; and the bringing forward again the subject so many years after the death of Mr. Pitt, who treated with that gentleman on the part of the public, was at least suspicious. It Was what he could net have expected, and be regarded the proceeding as most unjust.
The Earl of Moiraentertained a very different sentiment from his noble friend, as to the case of Mr. Palmer. The contemplation of no case whatever, gave him so much pain as that, as he thought the principles of justice were far departed from. The procedure in that House upon that occasion was what he highly disapproved. Ought that House to have proceeded upon evidence stated before the Commons? He retained his former sentiments as to the justice of Mr. Palmer's Claims, and never could he hear the subject mentioned without expressing those sentiments. This however, was a point distinct from that first touched upon by his noble friend, a point upon which he would, at present, offer no opinion.
The Earl of Harrowbyexpressed his satisfaction that the late proceeding of the Commons had been so properly noticed in that House, and on the earliest possible opportunity. With reference, however, to his own convictions upon the subject, and the deliberate decision of the House upon it, he could not possibly hear what fell from the noble earl who spoke last, without entering his protest against it. Their lordships had decided, after the most full and deliberate consideration of the subject, not only upon evidence transmitted by the House of Commons, but on further and original evidence laid before their lordships. After what had taken place, he, for one, thought the subject would never be brought forward again.
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He could not avoid expressing his surprise at hearing from the noble earl, the comparison he had made between the vote of compensation to Mr. Palmer, and the vote for the payment of the debts of Mr. Pitt. In the last case it was not what had been termed fancy or generosity; it was a testimony due to the great public services rendered. It was the tribute of a grateful country to the greatest man that country had ever produced, from that country which he had saved. The vote for Mr. Palmer went to give a recompence, where punishment was deserved.
The Earl of Lauderdalerose to explain. He had not used words bearing the construction the noble earl had put upon them. Whatever difference of opinion he entertained from the noble earl respecting the public character and merits of the noble earl's illustrious and great friend, he never brought that grant into comparison, far less into a precedent, with respect to the case of Mr. Palmer; and that must be the more evident to the noble earl, who was entirely in possession of his sentiments on the latter ease.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that he was one of the majority who had voted against Mr. Palmer's claims; and, in giving that vote, he considered the case, both as it purported to be a claim in justice and a claim in equity.—In both views of it, to him it appeared unfounded; and that opinion he delivered, after giving it as much attention and consideration as if he had pronounced that opinion in a court of justice.
The Duke of Norfolkasked if any notice had been given by the noble earl of his intention to bring Mr. Palmer's case before their lordships that evening? If not, he did not think it fair to enter upon the discussion in so thin a House. Besides, their lordships would do well to consider in what difficulties they might involve themselves by objecting to the vote.
The Earl of Radnorconfessed he had given no notice of his intention to mention the circumstance to the House, but had brought it under their consideration merely from what he conceived to be his duty. Neither had he any intention of renewing the question, but should leave it to any noble lord whom it might please to take it up.
After a few words in explanation from the Lord Chancellor and the earl of Lauderdale, the subject was cropped without further notice.