Sitting of 27 March 1809

TREATY WITH SPAIN.
Mr. Secretary Canningpresented to the house, by his majesty's command, the Copy of a Treaty of Peace, Friendship, and Alliance, between his Britannic majesty and his Catholic majesty Ferdinand J, signed at London, 14th January 1809; with two separate and one additional Article: viz.
TREATY of Peace, Friendship, and Alliance, between his Britannic majesty and his Catholic majesty, Ferdinand the 7th Signed at London, the 14th day of January, 1809.
In the Name of the most Holy and Undivided Trinity.—The events which have taken place in Spain having terminated the state of hostility which unfortunately subsisted between the crowns of Great Britain and Spain, and united the arms of both against the common enemy, it seems good that the new relations which have been produced between two nations, now connected by common interest, should be regularly established and confirmed by
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a formal Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Alliance: wherefore, his majesty the king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and the Supreme and Central junta of Spain and the Indies, acting in the name and on the behalf of his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, have constituted and appointed; that is to say, his majesty the king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the right honourable George Canning, one of his majesty's most honourable privy council, and his principal Secretary of State for foreign affairs; and the Supreme and Central Junta of government of Spain and the Indies, acting in the name and on the behalf of his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, Don Juan Ruiz de Apodaca, commander of Vallaga and Algarga in the military order of Calatrava, rear admiral of the royal navy, named by the Supreme and Central Junta of government of Spain and the Indies, as envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary of his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, to his Britannic majesty; their plenipotentiaries, to conclude and sign a Treaty of peace, friendship and alliance: who, having communicated their respective full powers, have agreed to and concluded the following articles;
Art. I. There shall be between his majesty the king of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, king of Spam and of the Indies thereunto appertaining, and Between all their kingdoms, states, dominions, and subjects, a Christian, stable and inviolable peace; and a perpetual and sincere amity, and a strict alliance during the war against France; together with an entire and lasting oblivion of all acts of hostility done on either side, in the course of the late wars, in which they have been engaged against each other.
Art. II. To obviate all complaints and disputes which might arise on the subject of prizes, captured posterior to the Declaration published by his Britannic majesty on the 4th of July of the last year, it has been mutually agreed, that the vessels and property taken posterior to the date of the said Declaration, in any seas or ports of the world, without any exception and without any regard either to time or place, shall be restored by both parties. And, as the accidental occupation of any of the ports of the peninsula by the common enemy, might occasion dispute respecting any vessels, which in ignorance of such occupation

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might direct their course to those ports from any other harbour, either of the peninsula or the colonies; and as cases may occur in which Spanish inhabitants of the said ports or provinces so occupied by the enemy, may, with their property, endeavour to escape from his grasp; the high contracting parties have agreed that Spanish vessels, not aware of the enemy's occupation of any harbour which they are desirous to enter, or such as may succeed in making their escape from any harbour so occupied, shall not be captured, nor themselves nor their cargo be considered as a good prize; but, on the contrary, that they shall meet with every help and assistance from the naval power of his Britannic majesty.
Art. III. His Britannic majesty engages to continue to assist, to the utmost of his power, the Spanish nation in their struggle against the tyranny and usurpation of France, and promises not to acknowledge any other king of Spain and of the Indies thereunto appertaining, than his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, his heirs, or such lawful successor as the Spanish nation shall acknowledge: and the Spanish government in the name and on the behalf of his Catholic majesty Ferdinand 7, engages never, in any case, to cede to France, any part of the territories or possessions of the Spanish monarchy, in any part of the world.
Art. IV. The high contracting parties agree to make common cause against France; and not to make peace with that power except by common consent.
Art. V. The present Treaty shall be ratified by both parties, and the exchange of the ratifications shall be made in the space of two months (or sooner if it can be done) in London.
In witness whereof, we the undersigned plenipotentiaries, have signed, in virtue of our respective full powers, the present Treaty of peace, friendship and alliance, and have sealed it with the seals of our arms.
Done at London 14th January, 1809.
(L. S.)GEORGE CANNING.
(L. S.)JUAN RUIZ DE APODACA.
Art. I. (Separate). The Spanish government engages to take the most effectual measures for the preventing of the Spanish squadrons in all the ports of Spain, as well as of the French squadron taken in the month of June, and now in the harbour of Cadiz, from falling into the power of France. For which purpose his Britannic
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majesty engages to co-operate by all mean in his power.—The present separate Article shall have the same force and validity as if it were inserted, word for word, in the Treaty of peace, friendship and alliance signed this day, and shall be ratified at the same time. In witness whereof, we, the undersigned plenipotentiaries, have signed, in virtue of our respective full powers, the present separate Article, and have sealed it with the seals of our arms.
Done at London 14th January, 1809.
(L. S.) GEORGE CANNING.
(L. S.) JUAN RUIZ DE APODACA.
Art. II. (Separate). A Treaty shall forthwith be negocialed, stipulating the amount and description of succours to be afforded by his Britannic majesty, agreeably to the third Article of the present Treaty.—The present separate Article shall have the same force and validity, as if it were inserted, word for word, in the Treaty of peace, friendship and alliance signed this day, and shall be ratified at the same time.—In witness whereof, we, the undersigned plenipopotentiaries, have signed, in virtue of our respective full powers, the present separate Article, and have sealed it with the seals of our arms.
Done at London, 14th January, 1809.
(L. S.)GEORGE CANNING.
(L. S.)JUAN RUIZ DE APODACA.
Additional Article.—The present circumstances not admitting of the regular negociation of a Treaty of Commerce between the two countries, with all the care and consideration due to so important a subject, the high contracting parties mutually engage to proceed to such negociation as soon as it shall be practicable so to do; affording, in the mean time, mutual facilities to the commerce of the subjects of each other, by temporary regulations founded on principles of reciprocal utility.—The present additional Article shall have the same force and validity, as if it were inserted, word for word, in the Treaty of peace, friendship and alliance signed at London the 14th day of January, 18O9.—In witness whereof we, the undersigned plenipotentiaries, have signed, in virtue of our respective full powers, the present additional Article, and have sealed it with the seals of our arms.
Done at London, 21st March, 1809.
(L. S.)GEORGE CANNING.
(L. S.)JUAN RUIZ DE APODACA.

PETITIONS OF MESSRS. WHITE AND HART.
Mr. Whitbreadrose, and said he held in his hand a Petition, signed H. White, a

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prisoner in the gaol of Dorchester, under the sentence of his majesty's Court of King's Bench, in consequence of a conviction of the publication of a libel; and another petition from Mr. Hart, confined in the gaol of Gloucester, under a similar sentence and for the same offence. For the veracity of the circumstances alledged in these petitions he did not undertake to vouch; but he considered it his duty, as a member of parliament, to comply with the request of the parties, in presenting to that house the petition of any British subject, when couched in respectful and decorous language, more especially upon a subject so nearly concerning the liberties of every individual. The petition complained not only of informality in the proceedings of the court upon the Petitioner's trial, but of extreme hardship and severity sustained in prison since their commitment, and which he should hope it never could have been the intention of the court to inflict. If these allegations were founded, they ought to be enquired into, in order that they might be redressed; and if they were untrue, it was right, nevertheless, that they should be stated, in order to give an opportunity for their disproof, that the public might really know the facts, not only as they concerned the petitioners, but every British subject. He moved that the petition be now received.—It was accordingly received, and read. It was of considerable length, and signed by H. H. White. It stated that the petitioner was proprietor of a Sunday newspaper called, The Independent Whig, published in Warwick square, London, and that in consequence of certain letters published in the said newspaper in December, 1807, and January, 1808, alledged to be libellous, proceedings were commenced against him by his majesty's attorney-general, ex officio, in his majesty's court of King's Bench, and that the information filed thereupon did not allcdge that any part of the said letters so stated to be libellous, was untrue, which circumstance was contrary to the legal usage of the said court; as, for above thirty years, no information had been filed in that court for any publication alleged to be libellous, wherein such publication was not also stated to be false. That in selecting a special jury for the trial of the said charge, the choice of the pannel was not left to the Sheriff, as it ought to have been conformably to the constitutional administration and usage of the laws of England, but was left to the master of the Crown-office, who
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had thereby a power of acting partially in the selection of jurors, which was accordingly the case; for the jurors nominated and summoned were not called upon for their fines, as is usual in such trials, but their names passed over, upon a mere alledgement that they could not attend: that such practice was subversive of the constitutional administration of the laws of England, which, in order to secure impartial juries, require that no sub-sheriff shall act for two years in succession, lest, by knowing intimately the jurors of his bailiwick, heshould be thereby enabled to make a partial selection. That the petitioner, when convicted by such jury, was sentenced to a punishment not only equal to, but greater than in the generality of other cases wherein he publication charged has not been proved to be false. That the petitioner was committed to Dorchester gaol, instead of being, as he ought, committed to the custody of the sheriff of the bailiwick wherein he was convicted, the Magistrates of the county of Dorset having no power in such case, but under a partial exercise of the law. That submitting these circumstances to the wisdom of that hon. house, he begged further to state, that at the time of his committal, on the 6th of July, 1808, he was in a dangerous state of health, a certificate of which was produced from an eminent physician; notwithstanding which, he continued, for the first three months of hrs imprisonment, confined to a small apartment, without the benefit of free air, except for about half an hour each day in a confined space, crowded with persons imprisoned for smuggling and other offences, and that being affected with a bilious complaint in his head, the circular direction in which he was obliged to walk, in a space so confined, greatly affected him. That he applied to the magistrates to be allowed to walk in the garden of the prison, a liberty which had been granted to Mr. Gilbert Wakefield and Mr. Redhead Yorke when confined there; but that this liberty was positively refused to him, until, through the interference of a humane magistrate, he was allowed, since the month of October last, to walk in the garden for a quarter of an hour per day, accompanied by the gaoler. That he had a wife and two children, with whose company and attendance he was desirous to be indulged during his ill-state of health; but that this consolation was refused him, until after the interference of the humane magistrate before mentioned, and since that time they were only ad-

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mitted to him three days in a week, and this at a late hour of the day, which considerably shortened the time of their continuance with him; and finally, that by the expence of removing his wife and children to such a distance from London, and the charges of finding for them a separate residence, he was involved in expences more heavy and severe than the court would have inflicted, had his punishment been awarded in the way of fine. Submitting, therefore, the premises, he prayed such relief as to the wisdom of the house should seem meet.
Mr. Calcraftsaid, that as a Magistrate of Dorset, and knowing something of tins business, he felt it his duty to state what he knew to the house. In consequence of some representations made to him by a worthy member of that house, he was induced to visit Mr. White, who stated to him that in his ill state of health he wished to be indulged by the admission of his wife; and upon his (Mr, Calcraft's), enquiring of the Gaoler, he was informed that ever since Mr. White came there life wife and son were admitted several hours in the day, and during his illness, constantly by day and by night, and since that regularly for eight hours a day, six days in the week. He then complained of the confined space in which he was allowed to take the air for an hour each day, and expressed a wish to have the same indulgence of walking in the garden as Mr. Gilbert Wakefield and Mr. Redhead Yorke had; but, upon application to the magistrates for this purpose, their answer was, that he could not be allowed this indulgence, because Mr. Gilbert Wakefield had made a very bad use of it; for the garden communicated with several parts of the gaol, and he employed, this indulgence in exciting disturbances among the prisoners. They however agreed that Mr. White should take the air in the garden for an hour per day, accompanied by the gaoler, or some trusty person, either all at once or in such divisions as he chose. This he communicated to Mr. White, who expressed himself perfectly satisfied and thankful, and promised that if he should have any future cause of complaint, he would communicate it to him (Mr. Calcraft) and as to his allegement of close, confined, and unwholesome apartments, he could only say, that although the gaol was not provided with apartments on purpose for persons of his description, yet as there were no female debtors now in the prison, he was
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accommodated with the apartments allotted for them; and that the room in which he was lodged, was as airy and comfortable as any he himself had ever occupied in any of his majesty's Barracks where he had been quartered. He therefore lamented that Mr. White should have suffered himself to be prevailed on to present such a Petition.
Mr. Ashley Cooperbore testimony to the same report, as having been Foreman to the Dorset Grand Jury.
Mr. Whitbreadreminded the house, that he did not pledge himself for the truth of the petitioner's allegations. It was the petitioner's son who delivered the Petition to him, and he fell it his duty, as an independent member of parliament, to present it to the house. If the grievances complained of had been remedied, it was to the honour of the magistrates: but why such severities were at all inflicted, might hereafter be matter for enquiry. Why the magistrates of a county should assume an authority to inflict punishments upon persons imprisoned more than were authorised by the court who committed them, he was at a loss to conceive. He was glad, however, the petition had been presented, as it might lead to enquiry touching such abuses, and settle some regulation in similar cases.
The Speaker,on looking at the Petition, felt it necessary to apprize the house, that there appeared on the face of it several erasures and interlineations, and therefore, in point of form, it could not be considered as the Petition of the person who signed it.
Mr. Whitbreadsaid he was not conscious of any informality in these circumstances; the erasures and alterations were made by the son of the Petitioner, who had delivered the paper to him. He would, however, with the leave of the house, withdraw the Petition, on the ground of its informality.—Leave given.

PETITION OF CAPTAIN SANDON TO BE DISCHARGED.
Mr. J. Fanepresented a Petition from captain Huxley Sandon, now confined in Newgate by order of the house; setting forth. That the Petitioner has served his majesty in the West Indies, on the Spanish Main all the American War, on the Continent of France during the years 1794 and 1795, under the command of his royal highness the Duke of York, and in Spain during the late contest, making a period of thirty-two years; was once wounded, and at the capture of Fort Omoa caught a fever, which deprived him of the sight of one of his eyes; and that he

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has hitherto served with reputation and honour to himself, and until the unhappy occasion at the house, his reputation was never sullied; and that the Petitioner begs leave to state, that a concussion of the brain, which he experienced a few years since from his horse falling down a precipice with him (to corroborate this fact, a certificate of the Surgeon who attended hint is hereto annexed), sometimes much affects and confuses his faculties, and he felt himself more disordered on appearing before so awful an assembly than he anticipated; and that the effects of attending the house for three successive nights, before he had recovered the excessive fatigue of body and mind which he experienced during the late harassing retreat of the British army in Spain, in which his duties as Baggage Master General were arduous and unceasing, contributed to increase his confusion and bewilder his faculties; and that his agitation of mind, at an examination by so many honourable members, placed as he was in such a new and unexpected situation, so distracted and confused him, that he unintentionally and unfortunately lapsed into those contradictions by which he incurred the displeasure of the house, which he most seriously laments: and that the Petitioner has now been confined in the gaol of Newgate, by order of the house, for nearly five weeks; and his long confinement, and great anxiety of mind, added to what he had suffered from excess of fatigue, and the effects of former complaints, is materially injuring his health; and that the Petitioner has nevertheless submitted, with due resignation, to the punishment inflicted upon him by the house for his misconduct, of the impropriety of which he is fully sensible, and was aware that it would have been highly unbecoming in him to have obtruded his situation, however unfortunate, upon the attention of the house at an earlier period, but now implores humbly that his unfortunate condition may meet with the compassionate attention of the house; and praying, that the house, taking the aforesaid circumstances into consideration, will be graciously induced to mitigate the rigour of his unfortunate situation, by a restoration of liberty".—The Petition, together with Dr. Lynd's certificate of the Petitioner's ill health, was then read; and it was ordered, that capt. Huxley Sandon be brought to the bar of this house to-morrow, in order to his being discharged.

LOCAL MILITIA BILL.
LORD Castle reaghrose, according to his notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend and render more effectual a Bill passed in the last sessions, for establishing a Local Militia. He began by shortly stating to the house, what had been the result of the experiment of last year. There were at present 250 regiments of Local Militia—of these 184 regiments were for England, amounting to 149,440 men, and 66 regiments were for Scotland, amounting to 45,721 men, making together a force of 195,161 men. The 250 regiments would then be rated at an average of 800 rank and file for every regiment; of these 125,000 men volunteered into the Local Militia, the remainder had been established by what were called Volunteers under the Act, those who had voluntarily entered the Local Militia without having been in any former corps; to the 125,000 before-mentioned there might be added for the volunteers under the Act 50 or 60,000 men. Now, according to the plan of last year, each of the volunteers under the act received an additional bounty of two guineas per man, but owing to the strong representations which had been made to government from different parts of Great Britain, particularly from Scotland, where the assessments on the parishes were felt to be peculiarly heavy, it has been thought advisable to do away that bounty of two guineas, and leave it to the separate districts voluntarily to assess themselves at any rate not exceeding one guinea per man. Another consideration that made this alteration less objectionable was, that it did not appear that there was any necessity for this bounty, in order to encourage the volunteering into the Militia. It would therefore be one of the objects of the Bill he should move for, to abolish that Clause in the Act of last session, that gave the two guineas bounty. As there were counties so peculiarly circumstanced ill which persons residing in certain parts of them could not conveniently attend the training, he should introduce a clause for the purpose of enabling such persons to be trained in any other adjoining county. He also should suggest an alteration with respect to the Stamp Duties on Commissions. It was also his intention to equalize the allowances for June and August to the Yeomanry Cavalry; and as the one was 5l.and the other 2l.a year, he meant to reduce the former and raise the latter to 4l.a year, as he thought such a disparity of provision for the same troops-ought not to continue. The whole

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force would then amount to 200,000 of as fine athletic troops as no other country ever did or would produce. They no doubt would, in point of discipline, be inferior to the troops of the line, but in equipment they would be every way equal to them. The noble lord then concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to amend and render move effectual the Local Militia Act.
Mr. Whitbreadsaid, that the thing had taken a popular turn, and, no doubt numbers were raised, but as to the magnificent description of them given by the noble lord, he must have had it from officers who had not seen them. But when the noble lord talked thus, he ought to recollect that these men were so many taken out of the means of supply for the regular Militia and the Army. As the bounty of two guineas had been begun, he thought it should be continued, although he allowed that it had better be paid by the public than by an assessment on the parishes. If one guinea only was allowed, the volunteering would be at an end, and the men must be procured by ballot, and the Militia be made up of two descriptions of people, the one of which would be apt to look down on the oilier. This diminishing the bounty before the Bumber at present was complete, would create a great deal of dissatisfaction.
Mr. Windhamobserved, that the noble lord had triumphed in his success. He did not know what that success was. If the noble lord meant to say, that he had procured an army by this means, this was no great boast; because the ballot must procure men, and it never had been contended by any one that it would not. But the question was, what sort of soldiers it procured, and at what expence to the country? 'Prime men', his lordship said; he had not seen them to be sure, hut he (Mr. Windham) had no doubt the men were good as men, but the point was, what sort of soldiers they would make under this measure; and whether they would be of more value in this situation than another? Here was an army, his lordship said, such as no ether country could produce; they had more money in their pockets, better deaths on their backs, and officers of greater property than any other country could produce, respectable shopkeepers, attornies in great business. The noble lord spoke of an army, which might say like Cloten in the play, "Don't you know me by my cloaths!" and as if he thought that its
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greatest merit belonged to its taylors. But the effect of the measure was to render the men not disposable, who would otherwise have been disposable. The noble lord spoke of the feeling of the regular army in case of invasion when thus supported. The feeling of the regular army, seeing troops so organized, and so officered, would be terror.—The right hon. gent, then adverted to the Spanish Paper containing the 'Precautious', which had been regarded as new, but which, in fact, was nothing more than an adjudication of a subject which had often been discussed in that house. His lordship, he said, had triumphed over his own measures. He boasted that l25,000 volunteers had entered into the Local Militia. Why, he understood that the volunteers were the force on which of all others the country might depend. His lordship had now done that of which the insinuation had subjected him (Mr. W.) to reproach for two years. He contended, that the noble lord had put the country to a great expence, for which he had got worse than nothing, as he had only locked up the men who would otherwise have been disposable. The whole measure was merely an augmentation of the militia upon a very bad plan, and if it had not been adopted by others, it was because though it encreased the number of men it did not increase the force of the country; or if it did, it did not do so in a way proportionate to the expence and the injury to the regular army.
Mr. Curwendoubted the propriety of reducing the bounty, but said, that the measure had been received with great satisfaction throughout the country, and he approved of it. It would produce a strong military feeling in the country, which was a necessary object in the present circumstances of Europe. He hoped, in case of invasion, that this would be found a most adequate force, and worthy the confidence of the regular army and of the country Upon an emergency, there was no doubt that the officers would be willing to part With the men, if means could be found to have them commanded by officers of experience. He thought the people would not grudge the money necessary for placing the country in a stale of the fullest security, if real abuses were reformed.
Leave was given to bring in the Bill.

SALE OF OFFICES PREVENTION BILL.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerrose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the Sale and

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Brokerage of Offices. He staled that the only laws on this subject at present were the Act of the 12th of Richard the 2d, which went to prevent the Officers of Justice appointing improper persons; and the act of the 5th or 6th of Edward the 6th, which prohibited the sale of these Offices. The practices lately disclosed consisted not in the sale of offices by those who had the power to give them away, but in the arts of those who pretended to have influence over such persons, and issued public advertisements, giving occasion to the notion that these abuses prevailed to a much greater extent than they actually did. This was the description of abuse which his proposed law had in contemplation. He had already mentioned, that the persons in a certain office, who had carried on this trade, were under prosecution, (Kylock and Co.) As there were several persons in that concern, they, were prosecuted for a conspiracy, but if there had been only one individual, he did not see how the law, as it at present stood, could have reached him, though, perhaps, he might be indicted for obtaining money under false pretences. The material point then would be to make it highly penal to solicit money for procuring offices, or to circulate, any advertisement with that view. This circumstance would go further than any other to check this abuse. His object was not to trench on the exceptions to the sale of offices that were now expressly admitted of. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill.
Lord Folkestonewould not object to the motion, but he could not help observing, that the time chosen by the right hon. gentleman for proposing this law was very improper. That abuses existed to a very great extent had been proved before the house, and he was astonished when the right hon. gentleman said, that when the matter was examined, it would appear that abuses had not prevailed to any great extent. If he imagined that to be the case, why did he resort to a new legislative measure? He (lord F.) thought that abuses did exist to a very great extent; but he, at the same time, thought that this was an improper time for introducing the bill; for at present the house must be legislating in the dark. It did not exactly know how far the evil had gone, nor by what means it had attained such a magnitude. This could only be ascertained by examination of facts. It had been the fashion of late
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years to multiply laws beyond the necessity of the case. This was a great evil, and the right hon. gentleman was falling into it on the present occasion. Another reason why the bill should not have been introduced at present was, that there was an order on the list for an examination into these abuses, with a view to which he had moved, that the Report of the Evidence lately taken at the bar should be farther considered. The right hon. gentleman ought to have waited for the result of this examination, when his measure might be brought forward in the most efficient shape. His lordship then adverted to the prosecution of Kylock and Coleman, and expressed his disapprobation of the means taken to entrap these persons. It was an improper mode of disposing of the public money, and in a moral point of view it was extremely objectionable, as it was cooperating with them in that very crime for which they were to be punished. The right hon. gentleman had said, that this prosecution had commenced before the late inquiry. If that were the case, ha might have waited a little, to see whether the law, as it at present stood, might not afford a sufficient check upon these abuses. His lordship also observed, disclaiming however any thing offensive to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that there was something very suspicious in this prosecution, and in the manner in which it had been announced to the house, for if it had been found necessary to call these persons to the bar in the course of the late Inquiry, they might have refused to answer, on the ground of not being obliged to say any thing that might criminate themselves. But his main objection was, that the house was legislating in the dark, that it did not clearly see its way, and that an inquiry ought previously to take place. It appeared to him besides, that this bill would not go to the case of such a person as Mrs. Clarke, who might receive a compliment for her influence, which would not amount to such a sale as would bring the matter within the act. His lordship then thought it proper to stale precisely the object he had in view, in moving for the further consideration of the Minutes of Evidence, as several gentlemen had erroneously conceived that he meant to prefer some further charges against the Duke of York. He had no such intention. His object was, that as a vast scene of abuse had been disclosed, the house ought not to shut its

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eyes, but that it ought to go on to probe the matter to the bottom; to search into the abuses of all departments, and then apply a radical and effectual remedy for the evil, with respect to which it was now legislating in the dark.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerstated, that he had not said that abuses did not exist to a great extent. He had only said that they did not exist to so great an extent as had been imagined; and this he believed to be the case. With respect to the time of bringing forward the bill, the house would recollect that he had given notice of his intention long before the noble lord had proposed the further consideration of the Report of the evidence. The house, he observed, was already in possession of the mode in which these abuses were carried on; and the remedy would apply whether the extent was small or great. With regard to the prosecution to which the noble lord had alluded, he said that these persons would have had an equal right to have refused to answer questions that might criminate themselves before as after the prosecution; and besides, it was satisfactory to know, now, that they had not been wanted on the late inquiry, and therefore no inconvenience had in fact arisen. As to the co-operation in the offence of these men, he agreed that it would have been most improper to have tempted them to commit a crime which they would not have committed had it not been for the temptation. But they had been before going on with these offences; and us to the application of the public money in this way, he saw nothing improper in it. As to the remedy not applying to a case like that of Mrs. Clarke, it was exactly the sort of case to which it would apply most particularly.
Mr. Parnellsaid, that the allegation of his noble friend was, that upon examination different plans for carrying on these abuses might be discovered, to which the bill would not apply, and therefore he had thought this an improper time for proposing the law.
After a few words from the Attorney-General, the Bill was ordered to be brought in.

CAMPAIGN IN SPAIN.
The Earl of Durnleyconsidered it his duty to call for the production of a Letter written by sir John Moore to lord Castlereagh, which, in his opinion, was necessary, with the other papers already moved for, to assist the house in deciding upon the measures adopted during the Campaigns in Spain and Portugal. He should, therefore, move, "That there he laid before the house a copy, or extracts, of sir John Moore's letter of the 13th of January last, to lord Castlereagh."
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that, at the time the other papers were communicated to the house, respecting the measures which had been pursued in Spain, it had been thought improper to produce the document just now moved for. He would assure the house, when this letter came to be placed on their lordships' table, they would then clearly perceive the impropriety of its being produced before them. When sir John Moore wrote the letter alluded to, he expressed himself as desiring it might not be considered a public and official communication, because he was not enabled at that instant to convey a more correct statement, but should take an early opportunity of sending a more accurate dispatch. The letter also contained other matter, which clearly shewed sir John Moore never intended it to be considered or produced as a public document. These were the reasons which would have inclined his majesty's government not to have acceded to the production; but when noble lords opposite were so strenuous in maintaining a contrary opinion, upon second consideration he should think it right not to resist the motion, because, although considerable detriment was done by acceding to the production of letters of this description, still more injury might arise, if, after being repeatedly called upon, they should withhold the communication. He was therefore disposed not to resist the noble earl's motion, but was the more readily inclined to accede to it on account of its being worded in that way which left the production discretionary as to a copy or extracts.
Earl Greyacquiesced in the propriety which ought to be attended to in not producing letters and papers which might be of a private nature only. But with respect to the letter of sir John Moore, it must be allowed it was not altogether private, but
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related to measures of which the house would not be enabled from other sources to supply the information. It probably was very true, when that officer wrote he was not prepared to communicate in that correct manner which he afterwards intended to do by a regular dispatch; however, such was the event and the mournful calamity that ensued, he had no doubt sir John Moore never could find an opportunity to fulfil his intentions on that subject. Without this letter, therefore, the house would not possess all the necessary information; and on that ground bethought there could be no impropriety in the production. For in cases of great moment, and where it was necessary for parliament to have every public document to guide their judgment, even what were termed private letters, if they contained public matter, and which could not be produced elsewhere, however inconvenient, ought certainly to be laid before the house; and he was glad the noble Secretary had shewn so much wisdom and propriety of conduct as at last to accede to the motion. The motion was then agreed to.
The Earl of Rosslyntrusted that the noble earl, who had upon second consideration acceded to another motion, would also be induced to accede to the one he was about to propose, particularly if the noble earl reconsidered that what before he entertained as a doubt, could not form any serious objection. It would be observed, on reference to the papers already produced, there was a deficiency which ought to be supplied, and he could perceive no ground for objecting to the production of all Instructions given to our different ministers resident in Spain, and their communications respecting the same to his majesty's Secretaries of State. After a few observations in support of its being proper and necessary, the noble earl moved. "That a copy of all Instructions and communications which had passed between the three Secretaries of State, and any of the ministers in Spain or Portugal, respecting the arrangement of Military measures, and every provision for carrying them into effect, be laid before the house."
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, if reference were had to the papers already laid on the table, he thought they were voluminous enough, so voluminous that their lordships would not have patience to peruse the whole of them. But although his majesty's ministers had with great readiness

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agreed to their production, yet the noble lords opposite, in respect to their desire for the production of papers, seemed to be possessed of a disposition like the amor nummi,for as the papers themselves increased, the desire for more increased in the same proportion. He believed there never was an inquiry instituted into the conduct of any administration, where more information had been granted; for the papers already produced contained a succinct account of all measures adopted from the commencement, throughout the whole campaign, and every information might be obtained from them which could be reasonably desired. In regard to the motion now made for the production of all Instructions given to ministers, upon which were founded the subsequent military proceedings; he had to remind the house it was riot usual for those who wished to form their opinion, whether favourable or unfavourable, upon the conduct of administration, to judge them by the Instructions given, but by the acts themselves, for which they were accountable. Had any proceedings been adopted, which were contrary to the Instructions given by ministers, it would then be their care to produce the instructions themselves, thereby to exonerate them from responsibility. Thus, if it were proper to produce the Instructions at all, that would be the care of ministers; for if they were not produced then administration would be considered responsible for the whole of the measures brought under their consideration. Therefore, could the house desire on this occasion any other information than that which regarded their conduct in the affairs of Spain? They were ready to take upon them all the acts which had been done, and so far to give every information moved for; and he did not consider it proper to assent to the production of those Instructions. He would also observe, that the miliiary arrangements in Spain were such as were highly judicious, and all the provision made for forwarding their march, for supplies during the march, and for comfort and convenience to the whole army, was satisfactory to his mind, and was approved of by every officer on the expedition. For the reasons which he had already stated, he should consider it his duty to resist the noble earl's motion.
Earl Greyrose, for the purpose of supporting the motion of his noble friend. The noble Secretary had justly represented be papers on their lordships' table to be
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very voluminous; still, that was no excuse for the production of more, if they did not contain the information necessary to guide the judgment of that house, when they came to decide on the conduct of his majesty's ministers. He did not presume to ascertain the minds of others by the impression made upon his own, in respect to the contents of those papers; but for himself he could declare, he never required more patience than in their perusal; nor, when he reflected upon the result of those measures therein described, did he ever read any papers with more displeasure, and even disgust. The noble Secretary had also stated, it was not proper, on this occasion, to refer to the Institutions, but the acts themselves which ensued, and that the production would he inconsistent with what was usual and precedented. To what precedents the noble Secretary referred, it was impossible for him to imagine; but he was certain, that all the precedents which were in his knowledge tended to shew that this sort of information had never been refused when necessary, and accordingly moved for. He begged their lordships to recollect when the campaign was carried on previous to the battle of Austerlitz: at that time information was moved for respecting the conduct of administration, and a motion for the production of all instructions and communications which had passed between this government and their accredited ministers was agreed to. In a still more modern instance, when the conduct of the late administration was called in question relative to the mission of an expedition to Portugal: on that occasion all Instructions and communications which had passed between the Secretary of State and his noble friend (the earl of Rosslyn) had been readily communicated. If he reverted to all former instances, he should find the conduct of his majesty's ministers unprecedented, and the doctrine just now held forth by the noble Secretary, most novel in its principle. No doubt could be entertained but these Instructions and communications were essentially requisite to be laid before the house, precedent to the motion intended to arraign the conduct of ministers in the late campaigns of Portugal and Spain. How was it possible to come at the reasons of many of the acts themselves which took place? When the delay attended sir David Baird's landing the army at Corunna, there was either blame to be attached to ministers for giving defective or improper Instruc-

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tions; or it was the misconduct of others; or it was the effect of unavoidable accident; but how it was, could only be truly ascertained by complying with the present motion. There was also less objection to the inconvenience of producing these papers at the present, than on former occasions; because there was not much danger of their communication affecting the negotiations or treaties of other continental powers. The house would consider that every information ought to be supplied on the present question, with regard to the military arrangement, and every provision made for the British army. How was the fact? Did not every calamity ensue, every distress which could harass the soldiers, and which could wear out the patience of a skilful Commander? Such was the situation into which the English were led, that all the personal valour of the troops, and the wisdom of their commander, could not extricate them from their difficulties. Fortune herself, in the most capricious hour of her changeable dispensation, could not have afforded them relief. The noble earl concluded with many other forcible observations in support of the motion.
The motion was then put by the lord Chancellor, from the woolsack, and negatived without a division.