Sitting of 13 May 1806

MINUTES.
Mr. Fellowesbrought up a Report from the Committee to examine into the Returns of the Bishops under the Clergy Residence act, and mentioned that it was his intention to proceed in the same manner every year in order to ascertain how far the Act had been efficient.—A message from the lords announced their intention of proceeding in the trial of lord Melville to-morrow, and their having passed a bill to permit the King in Council to allow certain goods to be exported from and imported into the West India Colonies in neutral vessels during the war, to which they desired the concurrence of the house—Mr. Hurst presented Petitions from the Lawyers, Solicitors, and Attorneys practising in the Marshelsea Court, against the Small Debt Court Act. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. Owen presented Accounts from the East India Company, pursuant to an order
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of the House of the 27th February last. Ordered to lie on the table.—Lord Morpeth moved, that the accounts, stating the amount of the bonds, deeds, and other debts of the East-India Company, in the several presidencies, with the rate of interest, and its annual amount, presented on the 13th of April, 1805, should be printed. Ordered.—Sir Philip Stephens presented an account of the Iron and Iron Wares furnished for the Navy, by contract, during the last five years. Ordered to lie on the table.—The Turnpike Amendment bill was read a first and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.—Mr. Robson gave notice, that, on Friday next, he would move for certain papers respecting the Barrack Department.—The Irish Annuity bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.—The Irish Loan bill, and the Treasury Bills bill, were committed,—Mr. Parnell gave notice, that to-morrow he would move for an account of the number of Irish and English bank-notes now in circulation.—On the motion of the Secretary at War, the Mutiny bill was read a second time. Ordered to be committed to-morrow.—Mr. Owen (from the Directors of the East India Company) attended at the door; he was called in; and at the bar presented to the house, pursuant to their orders; "An account of the Annual Revenues of the East India Company, in the Provinces of Bengal, Bahar, and Orrisa, and from Benares and Oude, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, Post Office Collections, Benares Revenue, Oude subsidy and revenue, land revenues, judicial fees, &c. customs, the receipts from the sales of salt and opium, and stamp duties, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same, for the year 1804–5, and an account of the annual charges defrayed by the East India Company, in the provinces of Bengal, Bahar, and Orissa, and in Benares and Oude, distinguishing the same under the respective heads of civil, judicial, military and marine, the charges of buildings and fortifications, of collecting the revenues and customs, the advances and charges on salt and opium, and the charges of the stamp office, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 2, A comparison of the East India Company, in the provinces of Bengal, Bahar, and Orrisa, and from Benares and Oude, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, post office collections, Benares revenue, Oude subsidy and revenues, land revenues, judicial fees, &c.

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customs, the receipts from the sale of salt and opium, and the stamp duties for the year 1803–4, and of the charges defrayed by the said company in the said provinces, and in Benares and Oude; distinguishing the same under the respective heads of civil, judicial, military and marine, and the charges of buildings and fortifications, of collecting the revenues and customs, the advances and charges on account of salt and opium, and the charges of the stamp office, for the same year; and also; 3, An account of the annual revenues of the East India Company, at the presidency of Fort Saint George, and the settlements subordinate thereto, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, post office collections, sea and land customs, subsidies from the Nabob of Arcot, from the Rajah of Tanjore, &c. and land revenues, and farms and licences, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5;—and an account of the annual charges defrayed by the East India Company, at the presidency of Fort Saint George, and the settlements subordinate thereto, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars; distinguishing the same under the respective heads of civil, military, buildings and fortifications, and the charges of collecting the revenues and customs, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 4, A comparison of the estimated and actual amount of the revenues of the East India Company, at the presidency of Fort Saint George, and the settlements subordinate thereto, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars, under the heads of mint or coinage duties, post office collections, sea and land customs, subsidies from the Nabob of Arcot, Rajah of Tanjore, &c. land revenues, and farms and licences, for the year 1804–5; and of the charges defrayed for the same year by the said company, in the said presidency and settlements, and in the Carnatic and Northern Circars; distinguishing the same, respectively, under the several heads of civil, military, buildings and fortifications, and collecting the revenues and customs; and also; 5, An account of the annual revenues of the East-India Company, at the presidency of Bombay, and the settlements subordinate thereto, under the heads of land revenues, customs, farms and licences, &c. for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; to-
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gether with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5;—and an account of the annual charges defrayed by the East India Company, at the presidency of Bombay, and the settlements subordinate thereto; distinguishing the same under the respective military, buildings and fortifications, and the charges of collecting the revenues and customs, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 6, A comparison of the estimated and actual amount of the revenues of the East-India Company, at the Presidency of Bombay, and the settlements subordinate thereto, under the heads of land revenues, customs, farms, and licences, &c. for the year 1803–4, and of the charges defrayed for the same year by the said Company, in the said Presidency and settlements; distinguishing the same, respectively, under the several heads of civil, marine, military, buildings, and fortifications, and collecting the revenues and customs; and also; 7, An account of the annual charges defrayed by the East-India Company, for the management of their trade and commerce in Bengal, at Madras, and at Bombay, so far as the same can be distinguished from the civil or other charges, respectively, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 8, An account of the expenses of the residency of Fort Marlborough and its dependencies, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 9, Amount of the expenses of the island of Saint Helena, and the factory of Canton, for the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; and also; 10, Abstract estimate of the probable resources and disbursements of the Bengal government, from 1st of May, 1804, to 30th April, 1805; and also; 11, Abstract estimate of the probable resources and disbursements of the Madras government, from 1st May, 1804, to 30th April, 1805; and also; 12, Abstract estimate of the resources and disbursements of the Bombay government, from 1st May, 1804, to 30th April, 1805; and also; 13, A general abtract of the estimates of the revenues and charges of the presidencies of Fort William, Fort Saint George, and Bombay, from 1st May, 1804, to the 30th April, 1805; and also; 14, An account of the amount received at the several presidencies of Fort William, Fort Saint George, and Bombay, for sales of import goods and stores, and for certifi-

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cates on the Court of Directors, within. the three years 1801–2, 1802–3, and 1803–4; together with the estimate of the same for the year 1804–5; and also; 15, Amount of the bond and other debts owing by the East-India Company at the several presidencies in the East-Indies, on 30th April, 1804; the rates of interest which such debts respectively carry, and the annual amount of such interest; and also; 16, An account of the amount of debts subscribed in India, between 30th April, 1803, and the 1st May, 1804, agreeable to the Court's orders of the 25th June, 1793; and also; 17, Abstract statement of the receipts and disbursements of the Bengal government, from the 1st of May, 1803, to the 30th April, 1804; and also; 18, Abstract statement of the receipts and disbursements of the Madras government, from 1st May, 1803, to 30th April, 1804; and also; 19,. Abstract statement of the receipts and disbursements of the Bombay government, from 1st May, 1803, to 30th April, 1804; and also; 20, An account of the balance of quick stock, exhibiting a state of the Company's affairs in respect to their debts and assets, as they stood at the several presidencies of Fort William, Fort Saint George, and Bombay, and at the residency of Fort Marlborough, at the conclusion of the year 1803–4; and also; 21, An account of the prime cost of all cargoes purchased in India, and shipped for Europe, in the year 1803–4, together with the commercial charges at each presidency, not added to the invoice; and also; 22, An account of Stock, per computation, of the East-India Company, exclusive of their capital stock, on the 1st day of March, 1805; and also; 23, An account of the amount of all goods sold at the East-India Company's sales, from 1st March, 1804, to 1st March, 1805; and also; 24, An estimate of profit and loss on the East-India Company's sales in England, and other profits, for the year ending 1st March, 1805, with other payments in England deducted therefrom." Together with a list; and then he withdrew; and the said list was read. Ordered, That the said accounts do lie upon the table, and be printed for the members of the house.—A petition of several barristers at law and counsel in the ancient Court of Marshalsea of the King's household, and of the Court of his Majesty's palace of Westminster; and also, A petition of several persons, being sworn attornies of the ancient Court of the Marshalsea of the King's household, and of
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the Court of his Majesty's palace of Westminster; were severally presented to the house and read; taking notice of the bill to explain, amend, and render more effectual, two acts passed in the 22d and 32d years of his late Majesty, for the more easy and speedy recovery of small debts within the town and borough of Souhwark, and the several parishes and places in the said acts mentioned; and setting forth, that the petitioners have, at a very great expense to them, been duly appointed counsel and attornies to the said courts, where they enjoy a tight of practising exclusively and possess freeholds in such their offices; and that their rights and interests will be most materially injured by the bill; and no provision is made to remunerate them for the great losses which they must of necessity sustain if the same should pass into a law; and therefore praying, that they may be heard, by themselves or counsel against the said bill, or that they may be otherwise relieved, in such manner as the house shall think fit. And the said petitions were severally ordered to be referred to the consideration of the committee, to whom the said bill is committed; and the petitioners are to be heard, by themselves or counsel, before the said committee, upon their petitions, if they think fit. Ordered, That it be an instruction to the said committee, that they do admit counsel to be heard, at any time, in favour of the said bill against the said petitions; and that all who come to the said committee have voices.—A petition of several inhabitants of the city of Glasgow, in the county of Lanark, was presented to the house, and read; setting forth, "that in pursuance of leave granted by the house, upon 25th day of April last, notices have been given of the application to the house, for leave to bring in a bill for supplying the city and suburbs of Glasgow with water from the river Clyde; and that the map or plan of the aqueduct therein described was deposited with the clerk of the peace of the said county on the 3d day of May instant; and therefore praying, that leave may be given to bring in a bill for the purposes aforesaid." Ordered, That the said petition be referred to the consideration of a committee; and that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, as it shall appear to them, to the house. And a committee was appointed accordingly; and they have power to send for persons, papers, and records.—Mr Lee reported from the committee, to whom the bill for the

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amending and repairing of the road leading from the town of Kilcullen, in the county of Kildare, to the town of Carlow, was committed; that the committee had examined and found that the order of the house, of the 13th day of March last, directing notices to be given of the application to parliament for the purposes mentioned in the petition for the bill, three times in the Dublin Evening Post, and by affixing the said notices for seven days on the respective doors where the sessions are held for the counties of Kildare and Carlow, had been complied with; and that the committee had gone through the bill, and made several amendments thereunto, which they had directed him to report to the house; and he read the report in his place, and afterwards delivered the bill, with the amendments, in at the table, where the amendments were read, and agreed to by the house. Ordered, That the bill, with the amendments, be in-grossed.—Sir Hew Dalrymple Hamilton presented to the house (according to order) a bill to provide a fund for repairing and improving the harbour of Dunbar, and other public works, within the Burgh of Dunbar; and the same was received, and read the first time, and ordered to be read a second time.—Mr. Henry Shelly reported from the committee, to whom the bill for paving, lighting, cleansing, watching, repairing, improving, and regulating the roads, streets, and other public passages and places, within the borough of Lewes, in the county of Sussex, and for removing and preventing nuisances and encroachments therein, was committed; "that the committee had examined the allegations of the bill, and found the same to be true; and that the committee had gone through the bill, and made several amendments thereunto, which they had directed him to report to the house; and he read the report in his place, and afterwards delivered the, bill, with the amendments, in at the table, where the amendments were read, and agreed to by the house." Ordered, That the bill with the amendments, be in-grossed.

REPEAL OF THE ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL.
Mr. Secretary Windhammoved the order of the day for the third reading of the Additional Force Repeal bill. On the question being put,
Sir J. Pulteney roseand said, he did not mean to detain the house, but wished to offer a few observations on the mode of proceeding that had been followed, and the line of argument that had been pursued through
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the whole of this question. When on that side of the house they had adverted in the course of argument to the plans proposed by the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) they had been told that they ought to confine themselves to the merits of the Additional Force bill alone. This he thought, however, was by no means a just way of reasoning, because it was not possible they could fairly estimate the merits of that bill, without taking into their calculation at the same time the measure that was intended to succeed it. Could the measures intended to come in the room of this bill be pointed out to the house as in any respect superior to it, either in its immediate effects or permanent consequences, the best mode of convincing them of the propriety of abolishing the bill, was to point out this superiority. On the contrary, if they were convinced of the Superiority of this mode of raising men, to any of the new measures proposed by the gentlemen over the way, it was most natural for them to compare it in its effects and bearings with those new measures in contemplation. Though those measures had not been specifically and individually before the house, yet it could not be supposed they should yet be ignorant of them after they had been so ably developed in a speech of four hours by the rt. hon. secretary; else, to what purpose a speech of such length and minuteness? He thought if fair, therefore, to view those projects as already before the house, and therefore justifiable to compare their probable effects with the effects already produced, and those still likely to be derived from the Additional Force bill. The hon. bart. then recapitulated most of the arguments he had used on a former day against the repeal of the bill, though he readily concurred with any measure that would render the life of the old soldier more comfortable; approving, for this reason, of an additional Chelsea allowance to the soldier who retired from service, either from the length of time he had been in the army, or from any particular suffering he had experienced in the execution of his duty. While he approved of this, however, he was decidedly hostile to any thing like affluence being connected with the soldier, while engaged in the service, convinced as he was of the remarkable tendency of any such advantages to destroy discipline, to enfeeble the ardour, and diminish the spirit of enterprise in the soldier. The gentlemen opposite acknowledged, he said, that no immediate effect was to be expected from their new measure, and if no beneficial result was to

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be expected this year, what right had they to expect such effects next year? Were we to look then forward, he added, through a period of eight years years before we could receive any benefit from their arrangement? This he thought a very capital objection to the repeal of the Additional Force bill, the good effects of which they had already felt. This plan had nothing immediate in it. The object was to enlist men for a shorter time, in the opinion that they would engage in greater numbers, and that on the expiration of the term, they would engage again, or others would more easily be found in their room. This was a speculation in which he was not so sanguine as the rt. hon. gent. but at all events he was averse to the diminution of the army during war. Of the fourteen general officers whose opinions had been taken on this point, eleven were decidedly against discharging the men in time of war; the other three were not so decided, because that part of the question had not come under their consideration. It was not the practice of any country in Europe to discharge men in time of war, though their term of service may have expired. The Ordonnance of the French Monarchy in 1788, contained an express exception to discharging the men in time of war, though their service of eight years may have expired; they had only an additional allowance per month till the end of the war, when they were discharged. He thought the second batallions under the Army of Reserve act, and the Additional Force act, the best system for keeping up the army of this country; and he could not consent to the repeal of the Additional Force act, until a better system was offered, than that proposed by the rt. hon. gent. He had no objection to see the experiment tried: but it should be without risking the diminution of the existing army. It was contended, that unless the practice was general, it would give rise to inconvenient and invidious distinctions. But he maintained, that there would be a vast expence and inconvenience in re-engaging the men, if it was general.
General Loftushad voted for the Additional Force act, in the hope that it would have been effectual. If the parishes had raised the men, he was sure the act would have been highly beneficial, for local knowledge and personal connection would have prevented desertion. But the parish officers, instead of raising the men themselves, raised them by the; intervention of
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recruiting serjeants and crimps, and thus the benefit was lost. A certain district which had to furnish sixteen men, had obtained them from London, by the aid of a recruiting serjeant; they were taken down and passed, and the next morning fourteen of the sixteen deserted. Thus it was the ordinary recruiting, and the high bounties, that found the men; and however willing he was to vote for the repeal of this bill, which now proved inefficient; and convinced, as he was, of the honourable, patriotic, and zealous motives which induced his rt. hon. friend (Mr. Windham), to propose the new plan he had suggested, yet he could venture to assure his rt. Hon. friend. that in many of the sanguine hopes he had expressed for the success of that measure, he would find himself egregiously mistaken, more especially in that part where he expected to do away large bounties, without any disadvantage to the recruiting service; for he really feared, that the system of large bounties had prevailed too much of late years, and was too deeply impressed upon the minds of the common people, to be abandoned during the continuance of the present war, without totally destroying the recruiting service. With respect to enlistment for short periods, he was convinced it would be rapidly productive of recruits. He had himself been employed on the recruiting service, during the American war; and when a limited period of enlistment for five years was proposed, the effects were immediately and rapidly felt, in an extraordinary accession of men. But, as to the idea of discharging men during a war, he could by no means agree to it, convinced, as he was, that it might be ruinous to the service, and especially the colonial part. With the insertion of the word "five, or seven years, or during the war," he was ready to vote for the plan of his rt. hon. friend, convinced, as he was, that it could not injure the service, and that the very young men, so discharged, after being a short time with their friends, would be anxious to re-enlist; but there was no principle that would be more truly advantageous to the recruiting service, than that of ascertaining to the veteran soldier, that, after a service of twenty-one years, he should enjoy his pension for the remainder of his life, without being again liable to be dragged from his family, to eke out, at a distant place, the remainder of twenty-five years, as had been the case, and had excited sensations of disgust, extreme-

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ly detrimental to the service, and particularly to that of recruiting.
Lord De Blaquieresaid a few words in support of the enlistment for term for years.
Mr. Yorkesaid, he rose once more to oppose the repeal of this bill, and to express some degree of astonishment at that sort of dignified and determined silence with which the rt. hon. gent. had treated every endeavour to elicit from him some further, and more detailed explanation, of the measure which he proposed to substitute in place of this bill, which he now called upon the house to repeal, without condescending to shew them, by any explanation or argument, that in such terrible times as the present could justify them in abandoning a bill, which, though not so productive as it was expected to be by the rt. hon. gent. Who introduced it, was yet productive to a degree far beyond what he (Mr. Yorke) could have supposed. It was surely but reasonable, before the independent members of that house could be expected by any set of ministers to abandon a bill, by the operation of which, 10,000 recruits a year were superadded to the production of the ordinary recruiting service, which was 12,000 men per annum, that some candid explanation should be given of the plan to the substituted in its place, and the merits of that plan fairly submitted to some discussion, in order that the house might be enabled to form an estimate of the value of that which they were to offer in lieu of that which they abandoned, and of which they already knew the value from experience. But the rt. hon. gent. notwithstanding all the questions put to him, all the solicitation by which he was repeatedly urged to come to some discussion on his plan, preserved the most inexorable taciturnity, and would not deign to enter into any further explanation of a measure, which went to involve the very existence of the country, the discussion of which should of absolute necessity precede any repeal of the present measure. The rt. hon. gent. then proceeded, at considerable length, to recapitulate many of his former objections against the plan proposed by the rt. hon. secretary, which, so far from being digressive or irregular, he considered as intimately connected with, and perfectly relevant to, the subject now before the house. It was obvious already, from returns before the house, that the annual decrease of the army by casualties was 15,000 men, and that the supply by recruits, under the ordinary system, was 12,000 men, and by the bill now in question
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10,000; which made a surplus of 7000 per annum to the force of the country. Would not the rt. hon. gent. then vouchsafe to shew how his measure was likely to produce such a supply of men, before he ventured to call upon that house to abandon, and set loose all the old and established systems of recruiting the army, which had raised the public force of this country to a pitch unparalleled in any former period of its history, and greatly beyond the proportion of its population, upon any scale ever witnessed in any country of Europe. In fact, the only rational principle in the rt. hon. gent.'s plan, was copied from the Army of Reserve bill, which gave men the option of enlisting for a limited, or long service; and that bill would be abolished by the present, as well as every other mode of recruiting hitherto adopted with advantage. The system of balloting, which had been so peculiarly advantageous in raising the force of the country to its present pitch, was also to be abandoned for a system of voluntary enlistment with low bounties, which every man must be convinced, from the experience of the last ten years, was totally inadequate to keep up the army to its ordinary force, even under the present annual diminution of casualties. But what would become of such a system, when the probable losses in battle were to be added to the computation? Hitherto, this country had been in the habit of making war upon easy terms, and rarely lost a great number of men in the field since the affair of Fontenoy, when she lost about 2000 men: but, supposing that the seat of war with the enemy should be in England or Ireland, it was clear that if ever the enemy were able to effect such an invasion, it must be with an immense force, and we must be prepared to reckon upon a probable loss of even 30,000 men in the first few battles. How then was the system of the rt. hon. gent. to provide for such a contingency, and supply such a loss, when the salvation of the empire might depend upon a critical moment? It was impossible to excuse the pertinacity of the rt. hon. gent. and those who supported him, in continuing to advise his majesty to the adoption of a system which they knew in their hearts was precarious, uncertain, and therefore dangerous, and to abandon one which had been found adequate to every good purpose. He could only account for it by supposing them infatuated with a foolish persuasion, that now, when they were his majesty's sworn servants and counsellors, they were bound by some former pledge to carry into operation those

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wild theories they had suggested while out of office, to embarrass those ministers whose places they now filled. But, upon themselves would fall the heavy responsibility for any ill consequences resulting to the country from those philosophical theories and sentimental speculations, with which they had amused their fancies, upon the feelings and opinions of common soldiers. For his own part, he would not agree to surrender the present bill without something obviously better to put in its place. He never would consent to abandon the system which had upheld the force of this country since the revolution, in complaisance to any system adopted in France, Germany, or elsewhere; he never would consent to relinquish the balloting system in times like these, which had proved so certain and efficient in strengthening our armies. And as to raising a militia without it, if he could suppose it possible that any minister would advise his majesty to such a measure, without the sanction of an act of parliament, and that any failure of the public safety should be the consequence, he did not hesitate to say, that such ministers would deserve to lose their heads.
Colonel Eyreconsidered the bill for the repeal of the Additional Force act not as part of the right hon. gent's. plan, but as making way for it. When this impediment was removed the plan would come after. The Additional Force act was a bad measure, and therefore, it was right to get rid of it. This he said, considering it without reference to any thing else. If it had not produced the men by the exertions of the parish officers, but by a competition which checked the ordinary recruiting, the mischief was evident. The act is was said, had become operative from the time that it had been explained by the inspecting field officers. He disliked this explanation. These were not the constitutional explainers but the deputy lieutenants. They were better explainers to the crimps than to the parish officers, and therefore the men were not had for less than 26 guineas. If a reduction was not made in this, the country would not have less than 5 million to expend in bounties. It was not only a more efficient system that was necessary, but a more economical one. The improvement of the condition of the soldier would afford great inducements to enter into the service. The limitation of the term would also attract greater numbers, and better men. These things would tend to im-
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prove the character of the soldier, which was also a most essential point.
Mr. Secretary Windhamdid not feel himself called upon to enter at length into the arguments which were now brought forward: but as a right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke) had seemed to consider his silence as in some degree contumelious to the house, he must say that there could be no contumely in not replying to arguments which did not properly belong to the subject of debate. He did not mean to say, that there was any impropriety in the right hon. gentlemen's introducing those topics, or that they ought not to have been introduced, but he must complain that they dwelt exclusively upon topics that had a very distant connexion with the subject, and hardly said a word upon the subject itself. Surely the nature of the bill that was to be repealed, was a consideration as material as any topic that could be connected with it. He had expected a different line of argument when the noble lord (Castlereagh) moved for such an immense mass of papers; but instead of that, he was much astonished at hearing that noble lord himself afterwards say, "that he gave little weight to arguments that were drawn from papers." The argument from the papers must have been much against the noble lord before he could make such a declaration. It reminded him of the very bad symptom in the case of Sir Roger de Coverly, when he "lost his roast beef appetite;" and when the noble lord could speak with contempt of papers and details, it was pretty evident the arguments they afforded were much against him. Not being willing, however, to imitate the example of the gentlemen opposite on this subject, he would confine himself to the consideration of the act, the repeal of which was now before the house. For a year after it had passed, nothing was heard of it; not only in the town but in the country. Every body was asking what had become of it. At last it was considered dead. Then came the famous letter from lord Hawkesbury, and, as appeared by the first volume of papers on the table, a kind of coroner's inquest sat on the act. As a it seemed to be the fashion in modern novels, to begin instead of ending with a marriage, by way of giving a new turn and astonishing their readers, so in the details in these papers, they commenced with the death of the hero of them. He should be very unwilling to disobey the admonition "de mortu's nil, nisi "bonum," but the fact was that he was not

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really dead. This was soon suspected. A looking glass was applied to his mouth, and it was with joy found that he stained it with his breath. Immediately the whole apparatus of the Humane Society was set to work. Bellows, flannels, hot water, and friction, were used with persevering industry, and by slow degrees resuscitation began to take place. The act, it seemed, was like those aromatic plants which would not yield their scent, until they had been chafed and rubbed a little. The title of the bill was "a bill to provide a permanent force for the defence of the country;" but in its operation it was any thing else. There was a mortal principle in the very stamina of it, which went to destroy it. If it succeeded, it would have been but a temporary measure. He must, indeed, allow that there never was any great danger of that, or any likelihood of its becoming felo-de-se on account of its success. If the quota it was to raise was 9,000 men, after a certain time, no more could be expected from it than to supply the casualties of that quota; it could not be expected that it should repair the casualties of the whole army. The bill was as dangerous in the case of success as in the case of failure; for there was no other way in which it could succeed, but by cutting up the sources of the general recruiting of the army. Instead, then, of allowing that any men had been raised in addition to the general recruiting, he should say, that whatever men were raised under the bill, were raised in derogation of the recruiting service. He did not know that a single man had been gained in all England from this bill. Those who were said to have been raised by it, could, as he believed, have been as well got, if no such bill had ever been passed. He thought nothing but mischief had resulted from employing parish officers to recruit. The men were only to be raised by the operation of money, acting, in such cases, through the medium of oppression. How very incompatible was the character of churchwarden and recruiting serjeant! The churchwarden or overseer, was generally looked upon to be a grave and solemn man, whose conduct and behaviour were expected to set a good example to his fellow parishioners; a kind of custos morum in the parish. Would you have such a character go skipping about the parish, from alehouse to alehouse, diverting and seducing the lads of the village; and like Serjeant Kite, with his jovial recruits, Thomas Appletree and Costar Pearmain, singing—
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"We shall lead more happy lives,
By getting rid of brats and wives,
That scold and brawl, both night and day,
Over the and far away."
When such language, however, should come from a churchwarden, it would not exactly produce the same effect. There was a story of two French officers, who, in addressing their men, differed in this point: the one said "go;" the other, "let us go;" and the men liked the one who said, "let us go," much better than the other. In the same way, if a constable were to come up to a young lad, and tell him, "It is a pity such a fine young fellow as you should wait behind your master's chair, or clean your mistress's clogs; you ought to be a soldiers, there is no life like a soldier's;" the fellow would very naturally reply, Mr Constable, if a soldier's life is so very pleasant, why are not you a soldier? It really appeared to him, that parish officers could not entice young men to enter the army without destroying the morals of their parishioners, which it was their duty to protect. He was aware, however, that some gentlemen would call it merely philosophical and sentimental to speak of morality or justice in the manner of raising men for the army. He hoped, however, that the house would not be of that opinion, but would consider it a most serious objection to any military plan, if it could not be executed without a havock of the morals of the country, and without injustice and oppression. There were gentlemen who appeared entirely indifferent about the means, provided men could be got. Their sentiment was like that rant, "Ye gods! Annihilate both space and time, and make two lovers happy." But whatever confidence they professed in their schemes for raising men, experience had shewn that they were inefficient. Although the parish officers were so stupid and incapable of understanding the bill, there was one who, it seemed, most perfectly understood it. This parish officer lived in Leicestershire, and by his knowledge of the bill had made pretty pickings for himself, probably about fifty guineas a month, for a considerable time. In short, this famous recruiting parish officer was one of the most experienced crimps in the whole county. Thus men were raised by the most immortal means, and to the perversion of all the decorum of society, besides the tyrannical power which every overseer was enabled to exercise over the miserable wretches of his parish. He recollected to have heard the supporters of that

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bill protesting, till they were black in the face, that they wanted the men only, not the money which they proposed to levy by way of fines on the parishes; but the people of the parishes did not believe them: they said, "we know better; it is money you want, and money you shall have." They very clearly that the avowed object of the bill could never be attained; and they never could persuade themselves that such was the intention of the legislature. The vestries seemed to be better judges of these matters than the politicians of Downing-street; they therefore agreed to pay the money at once. He would only say one word more, which was in answer to the objection started by an hon. friend of his on a former night, against the clause for returning the bounties. He thought the evil of refunding was the least of the two. If those who had already paid the fines, were to be held to it, and obliged to lose the money, injustice and oppression would take place; they had been compelled to pay for not raising men, which it was not in their power to raise, and the house should not lose sight of that excellent adage—"Nemo tenetur ad impossibilitatem." This was not a tax, but a penalty; and there was no proportion between the inconveniencies that would result from the exaction of the fines, and the expense to the public of repaying them back. Under all these considerations, he must press the third reading of the present bill.
Mr. Percevalsaid, he could not let this subject pass without making some farther observations upon it, in addition to those which fell from him on a former night. And first, with respect to the clause in the bill which the right hon. gent. had just alluded to, it was an at that would be a disgrace to the parliament, and weaken the legislative authority. Whether this clause was looked at retrospectively or prospectively, it was most glaringly unjust. It was neither more nor less than telling the subjects of the country that they had always a means of retreat, by which they could escape in case of disobedience to the laws. His majesty's ministers, however, blinded by their own success, and infatuated by the sweets of their situation, persisted in hurrying this measure through the house. And here he could not help observing on the triumphant manner in which the present ministers acted, with respect to this bill: they thought it a high honour to triumph over the measure of that great man, now no more, being well aware that they never could have done it in his
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life time. But he would advise the right hon gentlemen not to be so much intoxicated with the sweets of office, as to prevent them from paying that attention to the affairs of the nation, which the circumstances of the time required. The more he considered the effect that this clause would have, the more he was convinced of its impropriety; it would create a sort of appellant jurisdiction over the legislature of the country, and would give the great mass of the people the power of judging of the propriety or the utility of any act of parliament. Henceforth, instead of the different branches of the legislature receiving petitions against any bill, they should, collectively, when about to pass an act, petition the people for leave to do it; and, instead of the act running, "May it please Your Majesty, be it enacted, &c." it should be worded, "Be it submitted to the good sense of the people." This would be the situation we should be brought to by this clause; and he should have thought the right hon. gent. would be the last person who would have legislated in this manner; and, indeed, he did think that if the bill passed, as it now stood, the right hon. gent., after he had the triumph of carrying it through the house, would see the absurdity of this clause. The right hon. gent. said it would be an act of great injustice to force men to impossibilities. But the very same principle prevailed under the militia laws. First, the men must be balloted for, and those who were drawn, and could not find a man, were forced to pay a penalty; and this very ballot, which the right hon. gent. so unwisely rejected, must perhaps be resorted to in less than six months. There might have existed in some parishes a greater difficulty than in others of finding men; but he never could believe that there was a total impossibility of finding them. As to that act, which was so much condemned, he believed in his conscience that the right hon. gent. had never read it through, and that he had read one clause which he misunderstood. He said that the object of the bill went to raise 9,000 men a year, and after that number it would raise no more. Now the provision in the bill was to keep up a force of 58,000 men; and the 9,000 men in question were to be raised to supply the vacancies occasioned by those men who entered into the line. The parish officers understood the bill no more than the right hon. gent. They had never read it, but here was a bill brought in to repeal that, and according to the new species of modern

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philosophy that treated of the perfectability of human reason, probably this measure would be suffered to act by the force of its own merits. He had heard of persons attempting to make a plough on such an admirable construction that it would work of itself in any field. In the same manner, perhaps, he was to be told that this act would execute itself. Happily for the country, however, it was not yet turned loose upon it. It appeared that the framers of it had some distrust of its effect, for they had introduced a clause to enable parliament to alter or amend it during the session. This was certainly, in his opinion, the best clause in it. He believed the bill abounded with imperfections and blunders; and with all the great talents which the right hon. gent. possessed, he could not descend to all the minutiæ of that detail or examination, which would enable him to detect them. He hoped this would shew the right hon. gent. that he ought to be a little more merciful in treating the errors of others. He understood that a gent. of most approved knowledge in the framing of bills, was still retained by the present ministers (Mr. Abbott), but still faults would be found in every such performance. The bill sought to be repealed, was prepared under the eye of that great man now no more, who, though of a most capacious mind, was observed to be particularly versant even in this inferior department; and who had, as the right hon. gent. himself had happily expressed it, "a mind like the proboscis of an elephant, equal to the pulling up of a tree, or the picking up of a pin." The right hon. gent. had talked a great deal on a former night of the blind Cyclops, that after a good deal of puffing and hammering, had produced a most defective measure. He would tell that right hon. gent., however, that with all his accuracy, it would be found necessary to insert a clause in the bill before the house, to remedy an omission to provide for the wives and children of those who volunteered from the Army of Reserve for general service. He did not suppose the right hon. gent. meant to repeal that part of the act. He therefore hoped, that in his triumphal chariot he would suffer a clause to accompany him as a rider.
Mr. Windham,in explanation said, he never had expressed a wish totally to abolish the ballot. He did state, that in the uncertainty of human affairs, the country might again be driven to the necessity of resorting
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to it. If any error should exist in the bill it might be corrected.
Mr. Sheridansaid, he did not consider these constant insinuations of gentlemen on the opposite side of the house, wishing to triumph over the measures or memory of a great man, who was now no more, as being at all justified by any part of their conduct. He said, he had listened with great attention to the entertaining speech of the hon. and learned gentleman opposite him, who had never once attempted to defend the Additional Force act, which was now about to be repealed; on the contrary, the whole of his pleasantry went against that very measure. He could not help admiring the military spirit that seemed to prevail among gentlemen on the other side of the house. This was now the fourth debate which the house had had upon this bill. In the first, it seemed as if there had been a council held among the opposers of it, and that it had been resolved, "Let us attack all the measures that have been proposed or suggested, but let no man say a word about the bill." In that debate they therefore cautiously abstained from meddling with the bill itself. The second debate was began by a military general, certainly of very high consideration (sir James Pulteney). That general, however, entirely abstained from the military view of the question, and confined himself to its civil operation. In the third debate, both the civil and military questions were declined, and the argument was principally about the clause of refunding, which was the chief subject of the right hon. gent's argument upon the present occasion. If the gentlemen on the other side of the house had been twenty months before they could understand their own bill, they were not to triumph much even if they should find any omission in the present. He did not think it quite decent of the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Perceval) to say, that his rt. Hon. friend had not read the bill that he proposed to repeal: since he had made that assertion, he thought himself warranted in saying, that the Additional Force bill had been drawn up in a manner so confused and unintelligible, that he could not but consider the learned gentleman himself as the framer of it; and from the little knowledge he discovered of that bill, he was only the more confirmed in his opinion. The hon. and learned gentleman in ridiculing another system said, that some men had such an

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idea of the perfectibility of human art, as to suppose a plough might be constructed to do its wok by itself. Now, certainly the parish bill was not a machine of that construction, for with forty team of horses, or rather with forty team of asses (for such it seemed the parish officers might be described), it did no work at all. The rt. hon. gent. had warned his majesty's ministers not to be intoxicated by the sweets of power, nor led away by the pleasure of triumphing over the measures of their rivals: he therefore thought that he had a right, from the "bed of roses" of which they supposed his majesty's ministers to be placed, to warn the gentlemen on the other side of the house not to be too much mortified by their disappointment, nor to be so excessively soured by their change of situation, as to look on every thing in an unfavourable light. The hon. and learned gentleman had said, that if his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham) would but take time to consider, he was sure he would change his sentiments; and yet the principal accusation against his right hon. friend had been, that he had taken too much time to consider, and that he delayed his measure too long. A noble lord (Castlereagh) particularly anxious for the well being of the ministry, had said, that if his wish had been to overturn the present government, the mode he should have taken would be to hold his tongue, and let them carry their own measures in such a way as must completely disgust the country. He believed, however, that that sort of hostility was not much dreaded by his majesty's ministers, and that they would be better pleased that those gentlemen should hold their tongues, than that they should misrepresent, and endeavour to inflame the country by those misrepresentations. He believed that it would hardly be contended that there was a single parish in England that had raised its quota of men in obedience to the law, and, therefore, when the hon. and learned gentleman spoke so much of the dignity of parliament requiring that the laws should be obeyed, he should have recollected that the parishes which violated the law, were those who raised men contrary to the provisions of the act, and the parishes that did not violate the law were those who raised no men. In Leicestershire, it appeared, there was a wholesale crimp, by whose assistance that county procured its quota. There appearing to be some difference of opinion on this subject, between two representatives of that county, it had
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been stated, in the course of the debate on a former night, that one of them did not reside in the county he represented, and that probably his constituents would remember it at the next general election. He must compliment the constituents of the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Canning) who made the observation for his residence among them. He wished, however, to know whether he had ever seen the place he represented (Tralee in Ireland), or whether he knew the name, or had seen the face of any one of his constituents? When it was seen, that in some districts a considerable number of men had been got, and in others none at all, it was impossible to suppose, that it was because there was a great deal of loyalty and zeal in one parish or district, and none in that which immediately adjoined i. The reason was very different. In some cases it was represented as necessary, in order to support the characters of the ministers who brought in the bill, that some men should be got, and for that reason exertions were made to procure them, by means that were contrary to the law. In the parish of Mary-bone, the same crimp offered his services who had raised men for other parishes, but his offer was refused, as that parishes, but his offer was refused, as that parish did not wish to violate the law. In St. Anne's parish, however, they were not so nice, and they got some men. Here the rt. hon. gent. read one of the hand-bills which had been printed in London, offering the largest bounties to recruits for the Army of Defence, and inviting all brave fellows to come forward; "Irishmen, Germans, and Boys expected". This was in the parish of St. Anne. In St. Luke's also, they raised some men, by adding 12l. to the government bounty. As to getting men at the bounties fixed by government, it was impossible. If government were to want a levy of cavalry horses, and would allow no more than 5 or 10l. to be given for them, the parishes might answer, that it would be as easy for them to raise as many elephants or rhinoceroses, or any other strange animals as to get good horses for such a price. It was the same thing in the case of the recruits. There was an utter impossibility of procuring them for the bounties stated in the act. He felt convinced that the rt. hon. framer of the bill would not (if he were now living) support the bill. When he himself moved for the repeal of it last session, that rt. hon. gent. expressly stated, that if upon trial it failed to produce the men, he should himself move for the repeal of it. The act

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had completely failed, and in order to give the appearance of its having partially succeeded, scandalous measures were resorted by the government. He considered the letter of lord Hawkesbury, of the 31st December, as a most atrocious act, which the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) would never have consented to. That letter of instruction allow the men to be raised contrary to law, and gave the recruiting serjeants a privilege to libel the regular army, and point out this additional force as much more eligible to enlist in. As the rt. hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Perceval) had suggested a form for acts of parliament to run, he also should name a title which would have been more fitting for the additional force act than that which it had. It should rather have been called an act "for degrading the Magistracy of the country, for raising the bounties, preventing the public morals, destroying the regular army, and encouraging mutiny and desertion. Such an act should be immediately repealed as a great evil. If he saw a person afflicted with a wen, or any other disorder, and spoke of curing him, he did not think he could fairly be asked, what other disorder he proposed to substitute in its place? Or if he were to see a mad dog in the street, he should conceive himself justified in killing it, without providing any substitute for it, and this was precisely his feeling with respect to the present bill. The famous letter of lord Hawkesbury began by stating: "Whereas, information has been received that the Additional Force bill has generally failed, on account of the negligence and supineness of the parish officers." He had read all the correspondence on the subject, and he would venture to say, that the earl of Essex was the only person who gave such information. The letter, therefore, began with a violation of truth, (in saying violation of truth, he did not allude to the noble lord personally, but to the act of the government), and proceeded to order the violation of the law by increasing the bounties. Colonel Campbell, who acted under the directions of the secretary of state, gave notice, that there was no occasion for being very nice in the manner the men were raised, so they were got. It was also a subject worthy of serious observation, that by the law the recruit was obliged to take an oath, that he was a native of the parish or district for which he served. Now, in the manner those recruits were raised in distant
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parts of the country, it was necessary that perjury should be added to the violation of the law before such recruits could be received. He then concluded by utterly denying that he or his hon. friends acted at all through hatred of the memory of the great and illustrious man who framed the bill. At the time that lord Hawkesbury's extraordinary circular letter of the 31st December was circulated, the late right hon. chancellor of the exchequer was on his death-bed. He should therefore be acquitted of having any share in that atrocious action. As for me, said the right hon. gent., there were many who flattered him more than I, and some who feared him more; but there was no man who had a higher respect for his transcendant talents, his matchless eloquence, and his inflexible integrity; and yet it has been often my fate to have opposed his measures. I may have considered that there was somewhat too much of loftiness in his mind which could not bend to advice, or scarcely bend to co-operation. I may have considered, that as a statesman his measures were not adequate to the situation of the country in the present times, but I always thought his purpose and his hope was for his greatness and glory of his country. Let not his friends, then, suppose they are dealing fairly with the house, in representing that we seek a triumph over the memory of that illustrious man, when we now move the repeal of a measure, which he would himself have repealed if he had lived. A right hon. gent. (Mr. Wilberforce), who had many opportunities of knowing his intentions, had told you that he intended to repeal it if it failed in getting men. It has failed. Let the failure of the measure be buried in his grave, and never remembered in his epitaph.—The question for the third reading of the bill was then put and carried without a division. Upon the question, that the same do pass.
Mr. Yorkesaid, he thought it was necessary that the bill should specifically renew the provision of the Additional Force act, that the men raised by it were not to be sent out of the kingdom.
Mr. Percevalsaid, that as by this bill both the Army of Reserve and the Additional Force acts were repealed, the greatest injustice would be done, if the same provision as those acts made for the wives and families of the men, was not retained in the bill.—A short conversation then ensued, in which Mr. Windham and Mr. Fox urged, that the amendments proposed would unne-

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cessarily delay the passing of this bill, and that they would be the subject of another bill.
Mr. W. Smiththought there was much weight in the amendments, and that it would be preferable to delay the bill a short time, in order to make it complete, than to pass another on purpose to supply an omission.
Mr. Percevalsaid, that the injustice which would result from the omission was so apparent, that the amendments would certainly be made in the house of lords; the consequence of which would be, as they related to the dispensation of money, that the bill would be altogether rejected on its return to this house.—After the Speaker had explained away a doubt of Mr. Fox's as to the forms permitting the bill to stand over, Mr. Secretary Windham withdrew his motion, that the bill do pass, and the bill stands over for to-morrow, in order to have the amendments added.
Mr. Yorkesaid, he had before put a question to the right hon. secretary (Mr. Windham) as to the time when he would bring forward the measures which the country had been for some time expecting? As neither courtesy, nor a sense of duty on the part of the rt. hon. secretary had induced him to return an answer, he (Mr. Yorke) repeated the question.
Mr. Windhamreplied, that he did not know that he was bound to answer the interrogatories of the right hon gent., but he would say, if a day had been open which he could have fixed upon for the purpose of bringing those measures before the house, the right hon. gent's. question would have been unnecessary. He had already said, that what he had to submit was ready; and he would not add, that a day would soon be mentioned for the purpose.
Mr. Yorkereplied, that he had asked the question as a matter of courtesy. He did not know whether, after the bills were ordered, it was not in the power of any member to move that they be brought in forthwith.
Mr. Windhamobserved, that if so, the right hon. gent. might make a motion on the subject, but could not compel him to answer his question.

NELSON GRANT.
On the motion of lord Henry Petty, the house then went into a committee to consider his majesty's message of yesterday, lord viscount Howick in the chair.
Lord Henry Pettythen rose and said that, in the terms of his majesty's most gracious
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message, he should have to move, first, that a sum of 5000l. per annum for ever be granted to his majesty out of the consolidated fund, as an annuity to the family of the late lord viscount Nelson, and the persons succeeding to the title of earl Nelson; and, secondly, that a further sum of 120,000l. be granted to purchase an estate to descend to that family. Although he was convinced no persuasion could be necessary on his part to induce the house to adopt these propositions, indeed that there was not a man in the kingdom who could be brought to think any tribute too great to the memory and services of such a person, yet he could not bring himself to submit the proposition altogether without comment. He felt it to be one of the highest gratifications of his life that it had fallen to his lot to submit this subject to the house. Much as it was his duty, strongly as it would accord with his inclinations, to bring forward any measure which could increase the finances and add to the resources of the country, not even that agreeable duty could he perform with more pleasure than he now called on them to pay away this large grant. From the consequences of that grant, he hoped, would spring more valuable advantages to the country than any money could bestow, in the emulation which the respect and admiration in which his glorious deeds would be seen to have been held, must inspire into the breasts of our future commanders. The pages of history, the noble lord said, did not afford so numerous, so great, and so closely continued a series of successful and meritorious services rendered his country, as that which the history of the noble viscount, whose family, and the perpetuation of whose memory were the objects of the present resolutions, presented. If we looked to the early part of his life, we were struck with admiration, and felt ourselves almost led on to form presages of his future greatness. It undoubtedly, however, did happen, in the present instance, that high as his services and merits then were, and high as the expectation which they may have been presumed to have excited, the former part of his life has been eclipsed by the transcendent brightness of the latter. It happened, fortunately for his country, that with his increasing age his vigour, too, increased, and that he was enabled to give full scope, in a close and unbroken series of successes, to those talents, virtues, and abilities with which he was endowed. Off Cape St. Vincent, against the Spaniards, it was his good fortune to be eminently serviceable; and, when the fleets of France, in pursuit of

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that spirit of aggrandisement which then began to manifest itself, sailed to the east, it was his lot to defeat their hopes in that quarter, by a total destruction of their fleets. Not long after, when a combination was formed against us by the northern powers, he, under the walls of Copenhagen, terminated the war and the confederacy. His last memorable battle was in the recollection of every one, when the fleets of France and Spain, having united, for a while menaced our trade and colonies, till driven by the fame of his name from the West Indies, he pursued them to Europe, and, watching the first opportunity of their coming out of Cadiz, brought them to action, and had again the satisfaction of knowing, though his own valuable life was the forfeit, that he had totally annihilated the enemies of his country. Of him it might be truly said, what was addressed to a great person of antiquity—"Tu felix Agricola non tantum vitâ sed etiam opportunitate mortis." Such was the life, and such the death of the man, in honour of whose memory, and on whose family, they were this day called on by their sovereign to bestow a mark of the gratitude of a generous people. His family, honoured, enobled, and enriched, as it unquestionably would be, would be the means of inducing others to follow his brilliant example, and of handing down to posterity our ideas of his eminent services. They would also bear testimony to the truth of this, that burthened as this country at present is, she still knows how to reward liberally, when her liberality is called forth by such transcendent merit and services. His lordship concluded by moving, "that it is the opinion of this committee, that the annual sum of 5000 l. be granted to his majesty, out of the consolidated fund of Great Britain, to commence from the 21st day of October, 1805, and be settled, in the most beneficial manner, upon the present earl Nelson and the heirs male of his body, and such other persons to whom the title of earl Nelson may descend, pursuant to the limitations of the patent whereby the said dignity is granted."
Mr. Rosewished to know whether in the 120,000 l. was included any provision for other members of the noble lord's family, or whether any further provision for them was intended.
Lord Henry Pettyreplied, that 90,000l. were to be laid out in the purchase of a mansion and lands, to be annexed to the title; that 10,000l. were to be given to earl Nelson to make such reparations or improvements therein as he should deem ne-
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cessary, and that 10,000l. each were to be granted to his lordship's two sisters.
Mr. Roseexpressed great satisfaction at the statement of the noble lord, because he knew that nothing had been so near the heart of the noble person now no more, as some provision for those sisters.
Mr. Francisrose and said: On the merits and services of the great admiral, whom we have lost, there can be but one sentiment, of united admiration and gratitude, in this house and in this country; and in that sentiment no man can participate more heartily and sincerely than I do. Yet even this feeling, just as it is, and powerful as it ought to be, must in some reasonable degree be subject to the regulation of other principles in particular circumstances. We live in times of great public services, and great rewards. But we ought not to forget that the times we live in have another character, which indicates other duties; I mean the difficulties and distresses, that belong to our situation. Even in the distribution of the best deserved liberality of parliament, we ought not to forget that the present means of the country are not quite equal to all the claims, which great services may have on the public gratitude. On this principle, painful as it is to me, I cannot refrain from expressing a doubt, whether one part of the proposed vote, I mean the sum of 120,000, (in addition to the annuity of 5000l. a year,) may not be more, not than is due to the merit of lord Nelson; far from it, but than can fairly be expected in circumstances, which demand economy from us, even in the exercise of our virtues. The rewards given to the earl of Chatham, fell far short of this grant. Those given in the first instance to John Duke of Marlborough, who placed England at the head of Europe, I believe, did not exceed it. If, happily for his country, the noble admiral had lived to enjoy these proofs of its gratitude; or, if he had left children to represent his person, and to transmit his memory, with all its honours, to an illustrious lineage directly descended from him, I should never have thought of uttering one word, but in support of the question. All my doubt is, whether the claim on the nation stands exactly on the same footing in the person of a collateral relation, as it would have done, if it had been possible to preserve the reward of his services, united with his name, in direct descent to his own offspring, and to their posterity.
Mr. Rosestated that Blenheim had cost the country 540,000l.
Gen. Tarletonhad always been an admirer of the military glory of the duke of Marlborough, but his victories had not been achieved by English armies exclusively. Lord Nelson, on the contrary, had conquered with British fleets. Never had triumphs been more completely English than those acquired by him.
Mr. Wilberforcecomplimented his hon. friend (Mr. Francis), for his upright, manly, and conscientious declaration of the sentiments which he had expressed; such conduct as that of the hon. gent. on a subject of so much delicacy, he conceived to be a victory of principle over personal feeling, and as such it met with his highest approbation. That hon. gent., however, should consider that the value of money was now considerably altered, and that the sum proposed to be given, would not make the family of the hero, whose high merits we meant to commemorate and reward, by any means too affluent for the situation which they were to hold in society. It was, in fact, no more than what he thought they were entitled to from the country; and, as an incitement to heroic actions in future, he suggested that the building to be erected for the Nelson family, should be placed in such a situation as to be conspicuous to our seamen on their approach to England, or on their setting sail, perhaps, in quest of an enemy. When they beheld such a testimony of the gratitude of the country, it could not fail to inspire them with an ardent desire to imitate his glorious example.
Lord Henry Pettyagreed in the suggestion of the right hon. gent. The idea had occurred to himself, and the trustees, in whom the money was to be vested, would, he was sure, pay every attention to it.—The Resolutions were then agreed to, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.

Minutes
The house proceeded, as usual, to Westminster Hall. They returned soon after three, when an order was made to proceed further on the trial of lord viscount Melville to-morrow and a message was sent to the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith.—The order of the day on the Slave Importation Restriction bill was discharged, on the motion of the duke of Clarence and renewed for Friday.—The American Intercourse bill was read a third time and passed, and a message sent to the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith.—Strangers were for a short time excluded whilst the house discussed some matter of privilege. After our re-admission the earl of Westmoreland presented a petition from certain Merchants and traders of Manchester against the Slave Importation
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Restriction bill, which was ordered to lie on the table.—Strangers were again for a short time excluded. After our re-admission, the consideration of his majesty's message relative to earl Nelson was, on the. motion of lord Auckland, deferred till to-morrow.

PROTEST AGAINST THE AMERICAN INTERCOURSE BILL.
A bill intitled "An Act for enabling his majesty in council, to permit the Importation and Exportation into and from his majesty's territories in the West-Indies, and Continent of South America, of certain Goods and Commodities in Neutral Ships in time of War. Dissent.—1st, Because no proof whatever has been adduced to show either the expediency or necessity of a measure which facilitates and systematically establishes the suspension of our Navigation and Colonial Laws; and thereby sacrifices to Foreigners, the Supply Trade of the British West India Settlements, to which the United Kingdom and its dependencies are rightfully entitled in return for the monopoly they afford at their own market to the produce of those Settlements, 2dly, Because the bill will transfer responsibility from the West India Governors to his majesty's ministers at home; that is, it will take responsibility from those who alone can be judges of the necessity, and will give it to his majesty's ministers at a great distance, who cannot possibily have any information in due time to enable them to act on emergency; therefore the power of suspending the laws must be ultimately delegated to the persons from whom the responsibility will be removed, to persons who actually derive great emolument from the frequency of the abuse. 3dly, Because it will ultimately render our West India settlements dependent on the American States. 4thly, Because the British Colonies in North America will be ruined, or greatly prejudiced, in consequence of the admission of foreign American Shipping to the Supply Trade to the British West Indies. 5thly, Because Ireland in particular will be dependent on the discretion or caprice of Ministers or Governors for the Provision trade to the West Indies. 6thly, Because, through the relaxations and suspensions of the navigation-laws, our carrying trade and commerce are transferred to foreigners, the value of British shipping greatly depreciated, and the increase of foreign shipping employed in our trade, compared with the increase of British shipping being in the proportion of 12 to 1, ship-building is so alarmingly discouraged in this kingdom, that only two ships for the merchant service have been built in the

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River Thames since December 1802, a period of nearly three years and a half, and only two more are now building there, and ship-building in general in the several ports of this kingdom has decreased nearly in the same proportion. 7thly, Because if the United Kingdom and its dependencies cannot, at all times, furnish the necessary articles to the British West Indies (the contrary of which, however, may be proved) the intercourse with the American States for supplies may and can be most surely and steadily carried on as heretofore in British Shipping, navigated according to law, of which there is and has been a large number unemployed since neutral vessels have been permitted to enter the ports of the British West India settlements. 8thly, Because, if the Ships of the American States are permitted to enter the ports of the British West Indies, they will at the same time introduce, as they do at present, all East India and European goods, to the detriment of the British East India Company, and to the shipping, the manufactures, and commerce of the United Kingdom and its dependencies. Lastly, Because the Petitioners against this bill, who prayed that they might be allowed to state how they shall be aggrieved thereby, have been refused to be heard, notwithstanding the strong allegations stated in their petitions which they offered to prove by the most respectable evidence at the Bar of the House.
(Signed) SHEFFIELD