Sitting of 2 May 1806

MINUTES.
A message from the lords informed the house that their lordships had agreed to the Appraisement Duty bill, and the Wine Duty bill, without any amendment. Also, that their lordships would proceed further with the trial of lord Melville to-morrow at 10 o'clock, in Westminster-hall.—Mr. Baker presented a petition from the malsters and makers of malt,
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in the county of Hertford, praying relief from certain regulations in the mode of collecting the duty on malt.—Sir J. Sinclair brought up the report of the committee for augmenting the salaries of the judges of the Admiralty in Scotland, and the judges commissary of Edinburgh. The resolutions were agreed to, and a bill ordered accordingly— The West-India Indemnity bill passed through a committee without any amendment.—Lord H. Petty, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a bill for the better regulation of the office of receiver general of the excise. The measure was founded upon the same principle which the house had acted upon in passing the bill for regulating the office of Treasurer of the Ordnance. The object of it was to prevent balances accumulating in the offices, and to provide that so much of the public money as was not wanted for the necessary payments in the office, should he lodged in the Bank. Leave was given.—The noble lord also obtained leave to bring in bills for the better Regulation of the offices of receiver general of customs, stamp duties, post Office, and surveyor general of woods and forests.

PIG IRON DUTY BILL.
The order of the day for the house going into a committee on the Iron Duty bill being read.
Lord Henry Pettyobserving that it was the wish of government to obviate, if possible, the various objections that had been, made to this measure, and that it was intended to introduce several amendments for that purpose, hoped there would be no objection to the bill's now passing through a committee, pro forma, with a view to its being recommitted on Thursday.
Mr. Rosesaid, be should not object to the proposition, though he did not think that any alteration or modification would make it palatable, or fit to be adopted,
Mr. Wilberforcecoincided in sentiment with his right hon. friend, but this was a strong reason why he should also consent to the proposition made by his noble friend opposite to him. For so full of confidence was he in the grounds of his opposition to this bill, that he was sure the more the objections to it were weighed the stronger they would appear. The tax would branch, out into such a variety of ramifications, and affect such a variety of important interests, that it could not be agreed to allow the noble lord the delay which he asked, and he had no doubt, that the noble lord himself would be

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better prepared to discuss the subject at a fixture period and to perceive the force of the objections to it. He therefore gladly acceded to his desire of an opportunity of re-considering it. Those who opposed the tax would lose no opportunity of stating their objections. They would lose no stage of the bill, and might afterwards object to the Speaker's leaving the chair. They would in the mean time have an opportunity of gaining information on point which might otherwise remain doubtful, such as the drawback, &c. It was the interest of all therefore to accede to this proposition.
Lord A. Hamiltondid not think he should discharge his duty to that part of the country which he represented, if he did not enter his protest against the measure,
Mr. Vansittartobserved, that though he did not think any thing could alter the opinion he entertained on the propriety of the measure, yet he should be glad to have time for considering a statement on the subject, which was this day put into his hands.—The bill was then committed pro forma, and ordered to be re-committed on Thursday.

SLAVE IMPORTATION BILL.
Mr. Wilberforcein consequence of a difference of opinion, which took place the preceding night, on a matter of fact respecting tin Slave-trade, thought it was necessary for him, in support of his opinion, to move for certain papers. It had been stated, that very considerable trade in slaves had existed for a long time between the merchants o this country and the Spanish colonies it South America, He thought, in justice to his late right hon. friend (Mr. Pitt), and to himself, it was necessary to state the nature and origin of this trade. In the year 1797, when this country was actually at war with Spain, the government, having understood that there was no objection to receiving certain quantity of British manufactures in the Spanish colonies, issued an order of council from certain free ports in the West-Indies to the Spanish colonies. Afterwards they found, with gnat pain, that this order, which was made only with a view to the introduction of British manufactures, was made use of to cover a slave-trade. They therefore, in March, 1798, issued another order in council, and directions to the commanders of his Majesty's cruizers, in which order the word slaves was purposely omitted. The intention of the government had therefore been manifested for a long time against this branch of the slave-trade,
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and what was carried on was by a species of smuggling, that was perfectly unauthorised. There were subsequent orders that the trade should be allowed to be carried on during the present war as it was during the last. To confirm his statement in this respect, he should move for copies of the instructions given to the captains of his Majesty's cruizers upon this subject, on the 20th of November, 1797.
Mr. Rosecontended that the Slave-trade, which was carried on in this manner with the Spanish colonies, was the means of introducing an immense quantity of British manufacture, which would otherwise have been excluded. In the course of a single year he had known no less than 113 vessels, laden with British manufacture, to arrive in the ports of Spanish America, carrying with them on an average about seven slaves each, which was but a colour to the more important trade, the sale of British manufactures. From the acquisition of Jamaica, down to the present reign, there had been always a trade with the Spanish colonies; and it appeared to him that the orders which were only relative to prize and capture could not interfere with the legality of the trade.
Mr. Francisasked what the right hon. gent. supposed to be the average value of the cargoes of manufactures which had been in tins manner introduced?
Mr. Rosereplied, that vessels worth 50,000l. had found a market in the Spanish colonies for their cargoes under the colour of selling 12 or 15 slaves.
Mr. Wilberforcedenied that the sale of British manufactures was at all connected with that of slaves. The Spanish colonists could be supplied directly with slaves from the free ports under neutral flags, and therefore the 7 or 8 that might be brought in a British vessel could not be the reason of allowing the sale of British manufactures. He did not like the defence set up by the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) of the morality of smuggling, if the parties were content to run the risk of capture. He thought that this would not be a very safe doctrine for him to preach to his friends on the southern coasts of England.
Mr. Rosedeclared himself to have been a friend to the abolition originally, and that he thought it might have taken place long before this, if it had not been for the ill-judged manner in which the rt. hon. gent. introduced it, and the pertinacity with which he persevered in it.
Mr. Wilberforcesaid, that it was an odd

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way for the hon. gent. to shew his friendship to measure, by constantly opposing it in every stage. As to the manner he had thought proper to bring the measure forward, it was a manner that had been approved of both by the late and present first lord of the treasury, and by many persons for whose judgment he had the highest value.
Mr. Manningsaid, that the laws of Spain prohibited the introduction of British of manufactures into its colonies; and it was only having slaves on board that protected the vessels from seizure by the Guarda Costas.— After some further conversation the motion was agreed to.

MINUTES.
The house met at 10 o'clock, and proceeded about 11 to Westminster-hall, to attend the trial of lord Melville. Their lordships returned about 4 o'clock when an order was made to proceed again on the trial the next day, and a message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith. —The Wine Ditty bill and the Appraisement Duty bill were read a third time and passed. Lord St. Vincent's Annuity bill, the Longitude bill, and the London Docks bill, were read a second time. The Admiralty Jurisdiction bill was also read a second time.—Lord Holland presented petitions from the prisoners confined for debt in the county gaols of Chester, Gloucester, Worcester, and Surrey; and also a petition from a person confined in the four-courts marshalsea, Dublin, praying for relief; all of which were ordered to lie on the table.—The Attorney General brought up the Slave importion bill from the Commons, which was read a 1st time.—The Duke of Clarence professed himself decidedly hostile to the bill, and declared that he should give it his most strenuons opposition.