Sitting of 1 May 1806

MINUTES.
The Foreign Linen Draw. back bill was read a first time.—A message was brought from the lords stating, that they had agreed to the Export and Import Duty bill, and to the Excise Duty bill, without any amendment. Also that their lordships would proceed farther in the trial of lord Melville to-morrow.—The Speaker informed the house, that he had received a letter from lord Collingwood, dated on board the Queen, at sea, March 24, 1806, in answer to his letter communicating to his lordship, to lord Northesk, and the captains, officers, seamen and marines who served under them in the Battle of Trafalgar, the thanks of the house for their conduct on that occasion, in which his lordship expressed his due sense of the honour conferred on them by so signal a mark of the approbation of the house, and declared his confidence that when a fresh opportunity presented itself, the fleet under his command would continue to merit the approbation of their country.—On the motion of the lord advocate of Scotland, the house went into a committee to consider the act of the 26th Geo. 3. ch.47, settling the Salaries of the Judge of the Admiralty in Scotland, and of the Commissaries of Edinburgh. On the motion of the learned lord, resolutions were afterwards introduced in the committee granting an additional salary to the judge of the admiralty in Scotland, of 4001. per annum; and to each of the judges of the commissary court, of 1501. per annum. And, on the motion of Mr. W. Dundas, it was ordered that these, together with the former salaries, be net salaries without any deduction.—Sir J. Newport moved that the order for the 2d reading of the Dublin paving bill be discharged, stating, that it was the intention of the Irish government to bring in a bill for a similar purpose.—Mr. Alexander brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means of yesterday, when the Resolution extending the duty on

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Pig Iron to the stock on hand was read and agreed to, and was ordered to form a provision in the Iron Duty bill.

SLAVE IMPORTATION BILL.
The Attorney Generalmoved the order of the day for the third reading of this bill. On the question being put,
Mr. Rosecautioned the house how they were deceived by mistaken ideas of humanity into the passing of this bill. No measure which had been brought forward for a long time could, he was convinced, inflict so deep and lasting a wound on the commerce of this country. He had communicated his sentiments on the subject to ministers. Whether they had attended to them, he could not say. But he now stated to the house, that the passing of this bill would occasion a loss to British manufacturers of not less than from 2 to 3 millions annually, besides lessening our export of East-India commodities; and this at a time when the north of Europe was almost closed against us, and when measures were taking in North America to narrow the introduction of our manufactures into that country. Neither would this bill tend to promote the cause of humanity. The Americans at present carried it on without any restriction, and not subject to those wise and humane regulations which parliament had enacted as binding upon their own subjects. The object of the framers of the bill on the score of humanity would not therefore be attained; while our trade with Africa, which was exceedingly important, would receive the most serious injury. He particularly objected to one clause of the bill, which enacted, that if any foreign vessel should take on board from this country, any manufactures to be disposed of in the African trade, it should be liable to be seized. No human ingenuity could devise a regulation more likely than this to endanger a breach of amity with North America, since vessels from that country were very frequently in the habit of fitting out from our ports for that very trade. Hs felt it his duty to make these observations, and expressed his conviction, that should the bill pass into a law, it would be attended with the most baneful effects.
Mr. Bagwellsupported the bill, but hoped it was not meant to be substituted for the total abolition, which, he was convinced, would accord better with the feelings of the present ministers. He was a friend to the present bill however, as he was convinced every friend to humanity must be. The Slave trade was an evil of which any diminution
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would give him pleasure. It was an evil which had increased, was increasing, and ought to be diminished.
Sir R. Peeletook shame to himself for not having attended during the previous stages of this bill. He had not been aware that it was a bill so mischievous in its nature as he now found it to be. Instead of benefiting the cause of humanity, it would injure it exceedingly. What was given up here would be adopted elsewhere, without any of the humane regulations established by this country. Government surely did not wish to bring all human misery to a focus, and that that focus should be Great Britain! If we were, however, to philosophise, let us do so while our looms were full. Was it a reason because our artful enemy had at present succeeded in putting our trade to a stand, by driving our manufactures from the continent of Europe, that we should aid him in accomplishing his end, and should ourselves banish them from the colonies?
General Gascoyneargued, that if slavery was to be tolerated, and the state of our colonies shewed that to be necessary, no mode of carrying on the trade could be better than that established for British vessels in the regulations enacted by parliament. If this bill were to pass, it would not prevent the importation of slaves into the colonies which was the object. The hon. general then proceeded to shew, that some of the provisions of the bill would tend to excite a breach between this country and America, and that its general object was inconsistent with the terms of capitulation granted to the enemies' colonies on their surrender. He concluded, by moving an amendment, that the bill be read a third time this day three months.
Sir W. Youngsaid, he thought the rt. hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) and the hon. baronet, who spoke last but one, were mistaken in their ideas of the injury it would be of to our commerce: He denied that so great a share of our manufactures were sent to Africa. In the port of Bristol, four ships in, five did not deal in slaves, and there were not more than 331 imported into all the islands which had been captured; indeed, except in two of those islands, there was not one imported. The merchants of this country had sent such a glut of goods and manufactures for some years past, that they had greatly injured the value of West India, produce, and the gentlemen who had estates, in the islands did not receive two-thirds from their estates of what they did 20 years

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ago. He looked on this bill, therefore as a boon to them, and he thanked the learned gent. for having brought it forward. There were no petitions against it, but from London, Liverpool, and the Island of Jamaica; not one from any other island; and for those reasons the bill had his support.
Sir C. Price,at the instance of several very respectable merchants of the City of London, was induced to oppose this bill, which if passed into a law, would be injurious to the country in general, and to London in particular. This was not a time to shut a door by which we were enabled to export Manufactures to the annual amount of 2,800,000l. In the present circumstances of the country, trade ought to be encouraged instead of being shut out from those places that were still left open to us. He was always willing to favour the cause of humanity, but this was neither the mode nor the time at which such a bill as the present ought to pass.
Mr. Secretary Foxacknowledged the communication stated to have been made to his Majesty's ministers by the rt. hon. gent. who commenced the debate. He thanked him for that communication, and assured him that he had read it with minute attention; but he begged leave to say, that possessing still the same sentiments upon the subject of the Slave trade, which he had so uniformly protessed in that house, it was not very likely that the arguments urged by the rt. hon. gent. should change his sentiments. But if the statement was true which had been made by an hon. bart. and he was certainly good authority upon the subject, he could not easily perceive that such injuries were likely to result from the regulations of this bill, which the rt. hon. gent. seemed to apprehend. He was ready to admit, that any measure really tending to depress the commerce of the country should be avoided and especially in a period of war; but he should be glad to know how the rt. hon. gent. could apprehend such a consequence from a regulation of this sort now, when, during the last war, he was one of those who advised, and certainly well advised, his majesty to the issue of that proclamation, in virtue of his just prerogative, which this bill only went to confirm and render more effectual? As to this bill having an operation gradually to abolish the Slave trade, as some gentlemen seemed to apprehend, he owned he could not flatter himself in the hope that it would produce such a consequence; and if he thought it would have such a tendency, instead of that being
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with him an argument against the bill, it was one which would render him ten times more enamoured of it; but so far from such a consequence, he thought it would only operate some few years hence, to furnish a new argument, added to the old ones, of those who opposed that abolition, but on which certainly he never placed any very strong reliance. They had predicted in the same manner of the slave-carrying trade, and of every other regulation calculated to palliate the enormous abuses of that trade. They had said, "Oh! if you pass this bill, there will be no need to say any more about abolishing the Slave trade, as in a very few years you will have no such trade to abolish;" and yet afterwards, when the gradual abolition came to be proposed, the same persons argue, Why abolish? You have already established such wholesome restrictions upon the trade as to obviate its evils, and make it tend of itself to a gradual abolition." Such might probably, in a year or two hence, be the argument applied in respect of this bill, which was now spoken of as a measure destructive of the trade of this country. Having, however, no such apprehension, such arguments had no influence upon his mind. With respect to the total abolition of the Slave trade itself, whatever gentlemen might think of the consistency of those ministers in office, who had voted for it out office, he would not take upon himself to answer for the opinions of all his Majesty's ministers: he could answer for himself, and several of those with whom he had the honour to act, and some of whom held the highest and most dignified stations in the other house of Parliament, as well as in this, that neither he nor they had ever changed the sentiments they had so repeatedly avowed upon it. They still felt it as one involving the dearest interests of humanity, and as one which, however unfortunate this administration might be in other respects, should they be successful in effecting it, would entail more true glory upon their administration, and more honour upon their country, than any other transaction in which they could be engaged. After all that had been said upon this subject, it would be felt that the measure would most properly be brought forward by the hon. member opposite to him, whose laudable exertions in that case resounded so much and so justly to his own praise. Whether he should think proper to bring it forward this session or the next, (the, sooner the better), he could assure him of his most cordial support, and that of those

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friends who, out of office, had voted with him for the abolition of that abominable trade.
General Tarletonobserved, that this measure would prove highly injurious to our commerce and manufactures and was peculiarly impolitic at this time. He deprecated this proceeding highly, and hoped that the house would at least take time for consideration. He was sorry to observe that the ministers were much more active in injuring the trade of the country, than in providing for its defence. The house then divided on the question whether the bill should now be read a third time. Ayes 35. Noes 13. The bill was then read a third time and passed.

MINUTES.
The home met at 10 o'clock, and, after reading the bills on the table, proceeded, about 11, to Westminster Hall, to attend the trial of lord visc. Melville. About a quarter past 4 their lordships returned, and continued for some time in discussion, during which strangers were excluded. An order was made to proceed again to-morrow on the trial of lord Melville, and a message sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.—Mr. Jones, marshal of the King's Bench prison, and Mr. Nixon, deputy warden of the Fleet Prison, presented, pursu-
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ant to the order of the house, Accounts of the number of Prisoners for Debt confined in those prisons.—Mr. Irving, inspector general of exports and imports, presented several papers respecting the ships and their tonnage employed in the West India trade, which were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.—The Appraisement Duty bill, and the Wine Duties bill, passed through committees, and were reported.