Sitting of 24 June 1806

KING'S MESSAGE RELATING TO GREENWICH HOSPITAL
Lord Howickmoved the order of the day for the house going into a committee on his majesty's message of the preceding day. The house having accordingly gone into the said committee, the noble lord stated, that one of the principal objects of his majesty's most gracious message was to recommend to that house, and to assist them in the task of providing for seamen wounded in the service, or when from age they should be unquali-
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fied to make farther exertion for their country, a more adequate allowance than that which they at present had. Gentlemen were not altogether unacquainted, from a perusal of the papers on the table, with what he meant to propose; and the same papers would also go far to establish the points which he should now have to state to the house. The establishment of Chatham chest was some time ago transferred to the chest of Greenwich. Greenwich Hospital itself was exclusively confined to the relief of those wounded in the service. It was his intention now, however, to propose that it be extended to all who were no longer able to serve, and that the allowance should be increased as to both. When he stated that the out-pensions were only 71. and that they had not been increased since the year 1663, when the very great increase in the expence of living since that time was considered, and the very meritorious nature and immense magnitude to this country of the service performed, were taken into consideration, it would not be thought very extraordinary that some addition should now be proposed. The revenue of the hospital at present amounted to the sum of 126,811l. and the actual expenditure to 114,544l. leaving a surplus revenue of 12,267l. He proposed in the slightest cases of injury, and where time service had not been of long duration, to continue the pension as it now stood, at 7l. and to raise it as circumstances might warrant, to the highest sum, being 1s. a day, or 18l. 5s. per annum. This discretion of judging in what cases the highest pension should be given, he proposed to leave in those hands where he thought it might with the greatest safety be entrusted: he meant the lords of the admiralty.—This he estimated at 17,000l. per annum; and to provide for the deficiency he meant to propose to raise 5 per cent on all prize money and bounty for the capture of ships, as it should become due. In the aid of this intention his majesty had been pleased to signify his pleasure to grant a similar allowance out of the droits of the admiralty. The whole prize money so to be made, it was calculated might amount to 1,250,000l. He did not incline, however, to estimate it at more than 1,000,000l. Five per cent. on this sum amounted to 50,000l. One part of this sum applied to the purposes of the chest, and the remaining two-thirds to the purposes of the hospital, was time manner in which he proposed that it should be divided. One-third, therefore, to be applied

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to the chest was 16,666l. leaving a surplus on the total revenue in the time of war of about 11,000l. In time of peace it was naturally to be seen there must be a great deficiency. The expence, however, would then be greatly less, and in time of war the surplus to be accumulated would in some measure be providing for the defalcation in time of peace. There were certain revenues too, which it was to be expected would very speedily be greatly encreased, in particular from a rise on the rents of certain farms belonging to the hospital, estimated at 4,000l. per annum additional. There would also, it was computed, be at the end of the present war 200,000l. of forfeited prize money, the interest of which would go to keep down any deficiency. In this way he submitted that any deficiency which might arise could not produce any uncommon apprehension in the mind of the house. In time of war it was obvious there must be a considerable surplus, and in time of peace it was to be hoped the deficiency would not be of an alarming magnitude. The chest was founded in the year 1596, but it was not put on any regular establishment till the following, year. Those who received from the hospital were not entitled to get any thing from it. The allowances front the chest were in this manner; for total loss of sight 12l.; for loss of an arm Sl. These he proposed to increase; loss of sight 20l.; loss of an arm 16l,; and so in proportion. This he computed would produce an additional expenditure of 17,000l. a year. The present expenditure of the chest amounted to 46 or 48,000l. a year, and the revenue of it to 63,000l. To provide for the proposed extension there would fall to be added the other two-thirds of the prize money and droits, amounting to 32,000l. leaving a surplus in time of war of 21,000l. though in time of peace there must be a considerable deficiency. He had also to propose a small allowance to the half-pay of masters and of lieutenants. These he did not consider to be acts of liberality, but of strict justice, and they were such as he was convinced the house would not feel inclined to object to. He concluded by moving, that out of all prize money or bounty for the capture of ships of the enemy, the sum of 1l. 13s. 4d. for every 100l. be granted to Greenwich hospital; and that out of all such prize-money; &c. there be granted on each 100l. the sum of 3l. 16s. 8d. to Greenwich chest.—These resolutions were agreed to, and the report ordered to be received the next day.

GLOBE INSURANCE BILL.
Sir T. Metcalfemoved the order of the day, for the second reading of the bill for incorporating the Globe Insurance Company.
Lord Castlereaghput it to the gentlemen on the other side of the house, whether, as this bill was likely to give rise to some discussion, it would not be more desirable to put it off to some future day, to make way for the discussion of a more important measure, which was fixed for this day; or if this bill was to go on, that there should be an understanding in the house, that the other discussion should not be brought on at a late hour.
Lord H. Pettydid not think the discussion of this measure could occupy much time. It was not for him to anticipate what might be the pleasure of the house with respect to calling in the counsel, but he had no difficulty in saying, that if the discussion should be protracted to any length, there would be no objection to put off the other discussion to a more convenient time.—On the question being put, that the bill be now read a second time,
Sir John Andersonmoved an amendment, that the bill be read a second time this day three months, in which he was supported by sir W. Curtis, Mr. Grenfell, and sir C. Price, on the ground that the bill would be an infringement upon the rights of the London and Royal Exchange Insurance Companies.—Mr. Aldm. Combe, lord H. Petty, Mr. Paull, and Mr. Alexander, supported the second reading, on the ground that a competition was favourable to the public; that the trade and shipping of the country had been vastly increased since the charters had been granted to the companies alluded to; and that other corporations were necessary to meet the accumulation of business, and that this company proposed to contribute 100,000l. to the public, and to invest a capital of 1,000,000l. in the public funds, and without requiring any exclusive privileges. Mr. Paull, too, stated, that above seven millions annually were insured in India for want of corporations in England for effecting insurance, more confidence being placed in companies, than in individual or private insurers.—Mr. Perceval, Mr. Shaw Le Fevre, and Mr. W. Smith, were of opinion that counsel should be heard on the bill, and the matter of the petitions against it, before the house should come to any decision. A division then took place, For the Amendment 20; Against it 74.—Majority 54.—On the motion that

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counsel should be called in another division took place: for calling in counsel 39; against it 62. The bill was of course read a second time, and ordered, to be committed.

TRAINING BILL.
Mr. Windhammoved the order of the day for the further consideration of the report of the committee on the Training bill.
Lord Castlereaghwas extremely anxious, before this question was further gone into, to come to an understanding on a point which was most material. It was very currently reported, that the only object of the right hon. secretary in the present bill, was to incorporate his own ideas with the act already in existence; but when it should have passed, to have it, like that act, un-executed, unless some particular emergency should arise. If that were true, he should have little objection to allow the bill to proceed. It was certainly most material to the discussion, to be informed whether the bill, if passed as it now stood, was to be executed or not.
Mr. Windhamsaid, this was the first time he had heard of any doubt that the measure was to be carried into execution. It was then ordered that the report be now taken into further consideration. It was then moved that the bill be recommitted.
Colonel Bagwellrose for the purpose of opposing the bill. He was willing to do justice to the purity of the intentions of the right hon. gent.; but he would contend, that he had been most unfortunate in the application of the means which the country had placed in his hands and those of his colleagues. Every measure he had proposed, so far from increasing our force, had an opposite tendency. One of the first of his measures was to get rid of an act which produced annually 18,000 men in the army; and for what?—for an experiment. The plan introduced appeared to him to be principally for the purpose of counteracting the excellent system laid down by the former government, and to manifest his adherence to opinions expressed, he would not say in a moment of factious, but certainly of pointed opposition. With respect to the constitutionality of the measure, he did not think that the ingenuity of the right hon. proposer, great as it was known to be, would be able to establish that. But he would be glad to learn how the principles of the constitution could be said to be preserved, if so large a proportion of the population were to be subjected to the opera-
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tion of the mutiny bill; to be marched from one end of the kingdom to the other, and subjected to all the privations, restrictions, and subordination, that men who had made a military life their choice, were generally liable to. The bill appeared to him to be one of the greatest infringements upon the liberties of Englishmen that had ever been attempted.
Sir James Pulteneystated; that he had the greatest confidence in the superiority of a regular army, but it was impossible this country could be defended without having recourse to some other species of force. Our population was not so extensive, or our people so unemployed, as to allow us to raise a large army upon the spur of the occasion. Periods might arrive, when it would be necessary a very large proportion of the people should be ready trained and armed; at the beginning of a war, for instance, when the strength of the enemy's navy might be greater than it was in time of peace, and when the amount of our regular army might be less than it was in time of war. The French army, after the misfortune of general Mack, would never have reached Vienna, if there had been an armed population to obstruct their passage. It was asked, why have recourse to this measure of a general training, when you have a volunteer force ready drilled to your hands? The volunteers, he would admit, were entitled to great praise. He admired their zeal, and in many instances he approved of their discipline; but he would no more trust to voluntary services for the defence of a nation, than he would to voluntary contributions for the support of its finances. He would not enter much into the bill; the execution of it might be attended with difficulties but he was so attached to the principle, that he would give it a fair trial. There were, however, two or three points on which he wished to say a few words: and, first, as to the unconstitutionality of the measure. He could perceive nothing unconstitutional in that exercise of the prerogative vested in his majesty, or in subjecting a part of the population to temporary inconveniences, to avoid greater calamities. The amount of the number of persons to be trained, was, he understood, to be 200,000 men; a force certainly equal to encounter any danger by which this kingdom would ever be menaced. It was in this way that the French armies were first formed, by incorporating the national guards with the regulars. There was

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another part of the bill which he also much approved; that which provided for the appointment of proper officers. It would destroy all the ends for which this force was to be called together, if it were to be left in a state of insubordination and confusion. As to the expence, considering the security which would be derived from the possession of such a force, he thought that a subject of very inferior regard. He could, indeed, have wished, that the men might be trained, as it took place in certain parts of the continent, free of expence; but as that was not possible, he thought the advantages more than counterbalanced the expenditure.
Mr. Spencer Stanhopesaid, that if the bill before the committee was meant to be acted upon, he would not hesitate to pronounce it one of the most obnoxious and oppressive measures that had ever received the sanction of that house. The plan was nothing less than to call out every fourth man in the kingdom capable of bearing arms. According to the old military lists, the persons of that description amounted to 840,000. This was three years ago. The militia service took off 40,000 of them. The volunteers took off about 240,000 more; so that they had to raise 200,000 men out of the residue, not amounting to more than 600,000. Where, he would ask, was the necessity for this most obnoxious measure? Were there not volunteers more than he meant to call out by this bill? The people of England would be led, but they would not be driven, and this was driving them with a vengeance. The expence was not the least of his objections to the bill. The shilling a day would, for the 24 days training, amount to 240,000l. other expences also would be necessary; depots must be constructed, powder and shot purchased, arms provided, officers paid. The etceteras, he was convinced would amount to as much more. This measure professed only to apply to England. What was to be done for Scotland and Ireland? Was the former in such a state of security, that the right hon. secretary did not chuse to meddle with it, and was the latter in that state that he was afraid to meddle with it? He also objected to the bill, because the men who were to be called out under it were not to be under the command of the gentlemen of landed property, their neighbours, and the persons to whom they naturally looked up. As to the popularity of the measure, he could not suppose that a bill which gave
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government the power to draft and send men to all parts of the kingdom, could have much pretensions in that respect. Did the right hon. secretary expect that it would be easily carried into execution—that there would be no grumbling? The bill, from the perusal he had given it, appeared to him to contain every thing which the right hon. gent. condemned when he sat at a different side of the house from where he was now placed. It contained the reprobated principals of ballot, fine, and substitution. What would be the effect of that clause which went to excuse parishes from the operation of the bill: which turned out a certain number of volunteers; but to encourage such parishes to procure volunteers at any expence? The persons, too, who volunteered, would require excessive pay; seven and six-pence, or perhaps more everyday; and thus the right hon. gent. would sanction that principle which he had so often condemned. With respect to officers, he would defy any man, from reading the bill, to determine whether it was to be the serjeant or the constable. But, perhaps, it was meant to give the command to the serjeant, and to convert the latter into something like a provost-marshal. When this plan of starving out the volunteers had been carried into execution, what, he would ask, was to become of the volunteer officers? Were they to be put into the ranks? Was the captain of a volunteer corps to stand in the ranks between his own groom, perhaps, and his father's chimney. sweeper? The right hon. gent. on former occasions had objected to the principle of fines, and yet he had not blushed to introduce them into the present bill. The parishes were to be subject to fines for not raising their quotas, and thus he bill would operate as a measure of finance, which was precisely the objection upon which the opposers of the general defence act most relied. If ministers wanted more force, they knew where to have it; it was by encouraging and cultivating the volunteer system, and not by the introduction of such an inefficient, oppressive, and unconstitutional plan as that contained in the bill. For his own part, his objection to it was so great, that he should not be sorry to see it treated as a bill was once in that house. When a person who then occupied a seat on the bench on which ministers usually sat (he was one of the lords of the admiralty, he believed) brought in a bill of a very unconstitutional nature, relating, as well as he recollected, to some extension of

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the impress service, Mr. Dunning, who was then a leading member on the opposite side of the house, made an observation to the following effect:—If the bill had been unsupported, he should have contented himself with moving, that it be simply rejected, but circumstanced as it was, he felt it his duty to move that it be thrown over the table.
Sir W. Milnercould not think the bill was likely to produce so much expence as had been stated. The volunteer system had cost a great deal of money; and in the town which he had the honour to represent, no less than 18,000l. had been subscribed for the volunteers. Although similar exertions had been made all over the country, yet the volunteers had fallen off very much in numbers. He had attended most of the reviews in the neighbourhood of London; and the London volunteers, in the last review before his majesty, had entirely disgraced the appearance that was expected, as no more than 12 or 1500 attended, instead of 10,000 who had attended on a former occasion. He did not conceive that the present bill would at all diminish the number of volunteers; if he did, the measure ,should not have his support.
Lords Castlereaghconcurred with an hon. gent. who had spoken early in the debate (Col. Bagwell), in his surprise, that on that night, which was generally understood to be fixed for the final discussion of this bill, the right hon. gent. who had brought it in had not thought proper to explain more fully the nature of his plan. This was more particularly to be lamented, as this project was not only to be made the law of the land, but as it was immediately to be put into execution. When the right hon. gent. made his opening speech upon his intended military plans, early in the session, there was such a contrariety of opinion respecting his intentions, that it required all the abilities of the right hon. gent. and his colleagues, to make it at all understood. As they had hitherto been able to explain it but very imperfectly, it was not too much to have expected on that night, that the right hon. secretary would have condescended to open his new plan fully and explicitly. Whatever might be his opinion of the bill itself, it was not his intention to oppose the Speaker's leaving the chair, in order that it might be taken into consideration. He felt extremely reluctant in appearing to give any opposition to measures which his majesty's ministers declared to be, in their judgment, necessary for the security of the coun-
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try .If he could at all separate the abstract principle of the bill from the consideration of the time in which it was brought forward, he did not see much to condemn in it. He had himself formerly given his support to a bill nearly similar to the present, which was brought forward by a right hon. friend of his (Mr. Yorke, but under circumstances very different from what now exist. He was however ready to allow, that there was one incidental advantage which might be expected to result from the present bill, and that was, that a considerable number of men would, by the operation of it, be kept in that situation, that the more regular part of our army could easily take advantage of in case of an invasion. He allowed that such a principle was good, if confined to certain limits, but for this object the plan of the right hon. secretary was too comprehensive. The number which was called for in the first instance, 200,000 men, was undoubtedly more than would be wanting to fill up the losses which might be expected in the regulars and the militia; and as the number was greater than was necessary, so the discipline which was to be given to those men, was much less than what would be necessary, in order to make them efficient. Twenty-four days were quite too little to give that degree of discipline which would be necessary, if there were any idea of employing them with the regular troops. He was convinced that a much smaller number than what was proposed by the right hon. secretary would, with a much greater degree of discipline, be rendered more efficient for the purpose of supporting the regular army in case of invasion. The discipline which was to be obtained in 24 days, was so imperfect, that many general officers would hesitate much to employ such men, and would rather go on with their regular battalions, however they might be reduced. If it were true that the exigencies of the country required a considerable addition to our force, he should prefer in many instances the levy-en-masse bill to that which was now proposed. The principle of that bill rested on the undoubted prerogative of the crown, to call upon the services of all liege subjects in the case of invasion; and the only power that was added by that bill, was the power of organizing and training those men who were subjects to this exercise of prerogative; so that, in the case of invasion, the prerogative might be effectually exerted for the defence of the country. But when that bill was passed, the circumstances of the country

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were very different from what they were at present. At the beginning of the war, in the year 1803, when that bill was passed, the force of the country amounted to 157,000 men, whereas now its effective force, exclusive of volunteers and of artillery, amounts to 249,000. When it was therefore considered, that at the time the levy-en masse act passed, there were few volunteers, and that at present, besides the considerable increase of our more regular military force, there is a very considerable number of volunteers who have arrived to a respectable state of discipline, the house might hesitate in adopting a system which was brought forward avowedly in opposition to the volunteer corps, which were at that time considered of so much importance, that the advantages of the training bill were to be given up, if such a number of volunteers could be procured as were now on foot well disciplined. At the time that the former bill was passed, two great measures were laid before the house, the army of reserve act, and the bill for calling out the supplementary militia; and yet, at that time, although the dangers of the country were much greater than they were at present, when it was put to the deliberative judgment of the house, whether they would prefer a compulsory levy, similar to what was now proposed, or whether they would chuse the service of volunteers, the house almost unanimously concurred with those who were then his majesty's ministers, that if a number of volunteers could be procured, equal to six times the number of the existing militia, the training bill should not be put into execution. Nothing then could be more clear, than that at a time of the greatest danger the volunteer system was decidedly preferred to the system of a general training, similar to that which was the object of the present bill. Not only was the volunteer system preferred, but there was a distinct assurance from his majesty, through the secretaries of state, which was most distinctly understood by the different districts throughout the kingdom, that the training bill would not be carried into execution in any county or district, that produce a number of volunteers equal to the proportion laid down of six times the existing militia. As in the comparative statement our security appeared to be much greater now than when those assurance were originally given, it appeared to him that they were a bar in good faith to the present measure. Even if the policy were undoubted, he must make some observa-
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tions as to the necessity of the measure at the present time. He considered the present mode as less efficient than that which had formerly been proposed by his right hon. friend. If an additional force were wanted, it appeared to him much better that they should be trained according to the provisions of the levy-en-masse act, than according to the system which was to be introduced by the present bill. Those who were to have been trained by the former act were still to be liable to the exercise of the prerogative, and, in case of invasion, that prerogative would attach to them; whereas, by the present system, the men who had been trained for a year would be disbanded at the end of the year, and could not be called upon to repel an invasion. There was another advantage in the former bill: the men were not only to be trained, but officered, whereas in the present bill, there appeared no provision or regulation for officering them. The training under the former bill was not to be limited to a certain number of days, but to continue until the persons could obtain a proper certificate of being fit to serve. The great objection, however, which occurred to him, was what this new-raised force were to be? If they were to be an officered corps, then where were the officers to be found? It would be absurd to suppose that country gentlemen would be forward to embark in that situation, and he feared that it might be necessary to ballot for the officers as well as for the men. It was impossible that any gentleman could voluntarily chuse the employment of officering for 24 days a number of men collected in this manner; and as soon as these men had completed their year, another set of men would present themselves equally ignorant of the first rudiments of military discipline. This plan, instead of bringing forward a number of men for the defence of the country, did, in fact, (after a little trifling drilling) discharge them from the exercise of the royal prerogative, and in that respect, was much less efficient than the measure of his right hon. friend. If the enemy were to come before they were trained, it appeared as if there was nothing to oppose to them. The measure which was proposed appeared to him not only objectionable in a military point of view, but still more in a financial view. He conceived, that a more efficient military force could be procured for less money. When the former bill required, that those who were subject to the royal prerogatives should be previously organ-

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ized and trained, it by no means intended that this training should be attended with great expense to the country. It was an object which concerned the safety of those who were liable to be called out, as much as it did the security of the public; for it was evident, that men who should be utterly ignorant of military affairs, when they were called out for service, would be exposed to much more danger than if they had been previously organized and drilled. It certainly was intended, that those men who had no other support but their labour, might claim a shilling a day, when the day of exercise should fall on a day of labour; but it was never intended to give regular pay to men who were called on to learn that which would be necessary for themselves to have learned, previous to the time they might be liable to be called upon by the royal prerogative. The expences of the present measure would be very serious; and he could venture to assert that, for less money, a hundred or a hundred and fifty thousand men could be kept up, equal in discipline to what the militia are in time of peace, and which would be applicable to the defence of the country, in case of invasion, If the enemy were really to land in the country, he apprehended more of confusion than strength from the assistance of such a body of men; and he was really afraid, that the country would be completely disgusted by such a system. It appeared to him, that nothing could be worse policy, than to bring a plan forward which would completely disgust the country. It had been said by some, that we should be prepared for a long and arduous contest. He could not say whether this was the present opinion of his majesty's ministers, but he, for his part, considered it as sound doctrine. If this were the fact, nothing could be worse than to disgust the nation generally with the war, and incline the minds of every one to prefer almost any sort of a peace to the continuance of a war, in which the honour and lasting interests of the country were concerned. On the ground of general policy, it appeared to him most extraordinary, that this nation should be advised to adopt such a loose description of force, precisely at the time when all the other nations were giving it up. Whatever might be said of the peasants of the Tyrol and Suabia, he was informed, that they had never been efficient, except against an army which had been routed. He had never heard of an arued peasantry being very effectual against a regular army in full force. However that might
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be, Austria now appeared to place no dependance on such a description of force, and chose to organize a force resembling as nearly as possible our volunteer corps. The opinion of the French government was also pronounced on the comparative merits of the two systems; for, when Bonaparte was obliged to carry all the regular army of France into Germany, it was not on the peasantry, but it was upon corps similar to the volunteers that he called, and to whom he trusted the defence of the country. The system, however, which was now brought forward, was neither that of an armed peasantry, (for it appeared that the gentlemen on whom this bill was to operate were not to be trusted with the possession of arms), nor was it at all like a volunteer system. This system was not to be acted on without a breach of faith to those counties and districts to whom the royal assurance was given, that if they furnished their quota of volunteers the training act should not be enforced. He could not perceive any necessity for this breach of faith, as the country was infinitely stronger, and its danger from the enemy less, than at the time when the levy-en-masse act was passed. If there really existed any immediate danger, the country would submit to any plan that they could understand for repelling it; but he was really afraid the present plan originated rather from the desire of satisfying the military opinions of the right honourable secretary (Mr. Windham), and for the sake of redeeming that pledge, which he had somewhat indiscreetly given to the house. It did not appear to him, that the measure was at all called for from the relative situation of this country and the enemy.
Mr. H. Martincould not conceive how it could with justice be called a wild theory, to discipline for 28 days in the year, those persons who might be called upon to assist the regular army in the event of an invasion. It was too much to call every variation from the established rules, a mere experiment. Every amendment of old acts of parliament, every new act of parliament, might with equal justice be called an experiment. One hon. gent. (Mr. S. Stanhope) seemed to consider that it was a great breach of faith, that those who had subscribed for volunteers should be liable to serve themselves. The present bill, however, would not go farther than the old militia laws, or oblige any one to serve that was past the age of 45. The fines upon the parishes were by no means as severe as under the militia laws, and would only ope-

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rate, when there was any contumacy in the parish refusing to proceed to the ballot. He was convinced the bill would not at all diminish the number of volunteers; but that, on the contrary, a great number of persons would be enrolled in those corps, in order to exempt them from this service.
Mr. Matthewscommented on the language uniformly used by the right hon. author of this bill against the volunteers. That language, while the right hon. gent. was in opposition, might be overlooked, as the sentiments of an individual. But now that he might be conceived to speak with the voice of government, his language must, and had created alarm and discontent among that gallant body. In any services which the volunteers might render to the right hon. gent. and his colleagues after such language, well might they exclaim in the terms of the insulted Jew, in the Merchant of Venice, "You spit on me," &c. The plan of the right hon. gent. towards the volunteers must, in his judgment, tend ultimately to disband the volunteer corps. For such as were of the higher orders he would disgust by depriving them of their rank, such as were proud he would offend by talking lightly of their services and efficiency, and such as were of force he would disable from serving by depriving them of their pay.
Sir W. Youngcontended that the measure was perfectly constitutional, as every one must be convinced, who had read the history of the country. He looked on this as a permanent measure, and in that view he thought that the soldiers who would be discharged under a former bill, would be exceedingly useful in being officers for this force. This nation ought not to trust for its defence merely to the opinions and inclinations of individuals, as it must in a great measure do, if the volunteer system alone was depended on for that purpose. Whoever sat on the throne of France after Bonaparte, though a Bourbon, must act and conduct himself as the head of a great military people, and there was no way of meeting this danger from our enemies, but by rendering this nation in some degree military, through the great mass of its population. He did not disapprove of drilling on Sundays, as he thought patriotism a religious duty. It was to the great attention paid to the training of the population, even from the earliest youth of the people, that the recovery of Jersey was owing, after
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the enemy had entered St. Helier's. The volunteer system would afford the gentleman an opportunity of avoiding being placed between his own groom and his father's chimney-sweeper, a circumstance so much dreaded by an hon. gent. over the way.
Mr. W. Smithwas of opinion that the volunteers had saved the country, but that the system with respect to them was neither permanent nor intended to be so, and he saw no reason why persons in that situation should be offended, because their assistance was not sought in a way not suited to the nature of a temporary institution. A most singular objection had been made to this new project, because it had not this defect, and was permanent in its application: to him this was not an objection, but a motive for the adoption of it; and the bill enabled his majesty to draw from the robust part of the population, 2 or 300,000 men armed for the national defence. The plan of the military service which was concurrent with this measure, by throwing annually 5 or 10,000 disciplined men into the general mass of the inhabitants subject to this service, would provide the peasantry with instructors, who equally with their knowledge and their example, would contribute to give spirit and method to those levies. By the military education this bill was calculated to give to all orders of the community, in succession, these islands would not only be rendered impregnable, but the measure would preclude every attempt on our shores, by convincing the enemy, that against an armed nation all his efforts must be ineffectual. We should then hear no more of flottillas, no more of invasions; the enemy would say, whatever success we may have in attacking her colonial possessions, Britain is herself invulnerable. What pretence could the noble lord (Castlereagh) have to say that this bill would be afflicting to this country? Could it be afflicting for men in habits of corporeal exertion daily to be collected 28 days in the year, for the purpose of training them to military duty? parliament designed to give no cause of disgust to the volunteers: it only wished to avoid an expence inconsistent with the welfare of the country, and to provide other means not destructive of, but auxiliary to, the system under which arms were put into their hands.
Mr. Percevalhad waited for a long time to see whether the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham) would have given any explanation of his bill, that we might know whether

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it was intended to operate the destruction of the volunteers, or to form a subsidiary to them—for both objects had been ascribed to it. He considered the measure as unconstitutional and dangerous to our liberties, as a breach of faith on the part of parliament, and a breach of common sense. He ridiculed the idea of neglecting the interest of the present moment, and looking to a period of 7 or 14 years hence, when this force might be officered by discharged soldiers. The object of the measure was to substitute a compulsory system instead of that of the volunteers, which latter was preferable in every point of view, and he thought that the good sense of the volunteers, though he had great confidence in it, would be put to a severe trial. He would read the words of the right hon. gent. from the Parliamentary Debates, published by one who the right hon. secretary himself had said deserved a Golden Statue, and who therefore was not likely to give an unfavourable report of his words.
Mr. Paullspoke to order, and said it was irregular to quote from a former debate.
The Speakersaid, he had always understood that the strict rule of the house was, not to admit such citation of words used in a former debate; but at the same time, this rigid adherence was sometimes not required.
Mr. Paull.I say the hon. and learned gent. is manifestly disorderly.
The Speaker.When the speaker delivers an opinion, in which the house acquiesces, there is an end of the question.
Mr. Bathurst.I must call the attention of the house to the respect due to the chair. The hon. gent. is young, and he may not be aware that there is no fresh appeal after the speaker has laid down the rule, and the house has acquiesced in it.
Mr. Percevalsaid his object was merely to justify the epithet he had applied, and he thought the interference of the hon. gent. wholly unnecessary. It would however be recollected, that the volunteers had been denominated a depository of panic, of which an experienced officer would be glad to be disencumbered, as a prudent wrestler would of the unnecessary raiment by which his muscular action was impeded. He had intimated that no sufficient elucidation had been afforded. Was this complaint well founded? There were 300,000 volunteers, and 200,000 men were to be raised under this act. Yet if the former were to be disbanded, only 200,000 would remain. Was
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this the intention? What were the expences attending this scheme? What method was to be adopted with regard to the officers over this armed peasantry? To what extent, and in what manner, was this to operate on the population? Nothing of this sort had been explained, and yet the house was called upon to sanction such a project. To the particular clauses of the bill he should have another opportunity to advert; thus much had occurred to him with respect to the general principle, to which he must object, from every notion he could entertain of sound discretion.
Mr. Bathurstwas surprised at his hon. and learned friend, when he talked of this bill as being opposed to our free constitution, and liberty and justice, and so forth; and not less at the opposition given to this bill by those who supported a former one of the same tendency. If this bill were an infringment on the rights of the people, that was so also; if this were a refuge for the volunteers, that likewise possessed the same character. It was no disparagement to so numerous a body as the volunteers, to suppose that they were not all animated by the ardour of patriotism; every man who had at all attended to the philosophy of the human mind, must be convinced of the variety of feelings by which it was actuated; and to provide against any defection in this useful institution, the new project now recommended was designed. It had been intimated, that there was no necessity for the bill, because the immediate danger was over. Who could look to the posture of Europe at this day, and say the times were not perilous? Was the calamity of the hour only to be regarded, and were we not to look to future exigencies? He admitted that the volunteers had been the salvation of the country, but was no diversion of the accumulated power of France against these islands now to be apprehended? Were we wholly insensible to the vast augmentation of the power of the enemy? Was Bonaparte so diligently employed in making kings, that he never turned his thoughts to unmaking kings? We used to think the wooden walls of old England were sufficient for her defence; wisdom had exploded this prejudice, and we were now to resort to additional means of protection. With this view the object of the bill was not to reduce the volunteers, but to do what was subsidiary to that resource. It was the grossest misconstruction both of the intentions of the right hon. gent. and of parliament, to con-

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clude that the volunteer system was to be abolished. The act to which he had alluded of 1800, said, that if persons would volunteer, the statute should not take effect in the district where the people so far accommodated themselves to the designs of government: they came forward under their own officers, and they were accepted by the crown. Was it to be then said, that because the king had acceded to such proposals, ministers were pledged not to adopt the present measure on the broad ground of political necessity. As to the volunteer bill, this was its auxiliary; so also it was to the regulations for limited service. If the volunteers were better disciplined than the corps under this bill, the terms under which these were engaged were more convenient to the public service; but the great recommendation of the plan was, that it would immediately train a large body of men, and by the succession contrived it would in time instruct in the use of arms the Whole population of the empire. It had been said, that danger was to be apprehended from calling out the population of the refuse of the capital. If any such danger really existed, it was easy to avoid it, by not requiring the services of those who were unfit to be entrusted with arms in their hands. All the arguments that were resorted to with reference to the peasantry of the Tyrol, as far as they went, were clearly in favour of the present bill; but a fair comparison, in such a case, could not easily be drawn between the subjects of an arbitrary government and those of a free monarchy. It was said, that to draft the men raised under this bill into the regiments, was obnoxious. In case of invasion the king could order any man to take the field; was it then to be said, that it was improper, under such a contingency, that those levies should be employed where they could be most useful? and was it to be supposed, that on such an occasion the people of this country of right and liberty, would not be anxious to stand forward in the defence of all that was valuable to themselves and their posterity? This bill has been erroneously represented as not recognizing the volunteers, like the former: it said, in the most distinct manner, that if a man be a volunteer, or shall become one, he shall not serve under it: it not only recognized the volunteers, but indicated the wish of the legislature, that their number should be augmented. Some allusion to words used by the right hon. gent. (Mr. Windham), had been irregularly
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adverted to; but, whatever were the terms employed, looking to the measures of ministers, it was clearly their intention to favour the volunteer system; and with this view, if any were not pleased with the society they met with under the present measure, they might select their own corps of volunteers, and remove the objection. If the volunteers, in the event of invasion, were to be put on garrison duty, how were the ranks to be filled up in the army, after a destructive engagement, more advantageously than by such a resource as was provided by this bill? He would defy any man to discover an expedient that could more effectually answer this end. The island had alone been preserved by the successive measures adopted: this was one of the most valuable, and the enemy would abandon all future hope of subduing; our territory, when they saw an armed and disciplined nation ready to present their bodies as a rampart for its defence. It was upon these ground that he approved of this bill, whether he looked at the immediate or the remote effect, and he was sensible that the labourer or the artisan would not in such a pursuit regard the shillings and sixpences he should lose in substracting a few days from his ordinary occupations. He was not at all apprehensive of any jealousies tween the volunteers and these new levies; they were admirably adapted to harmonize with, and assist each other; and with a proper attention to call forth the strength and spirit of the country, he trusted that, under Providence, no human power could endanger our security and independence.
Mr. Secretary Windhamsaid, that one of the principal imputations of blame to him urged by the opposers of this measure was, that he had not introduced it to the house or commenced the debate with a speech explanatory of his own views of it at large; but to do this, he must have repeated every speech he had made upon this topic in the course of the last 3 years. Another objection urged against him was, that he had on various occasions undervalued, and treated with contempt, the volunteers, and that this bill was calculated to supersede them altogether. The first part of the charge he utterly denied, and declared it was his wish, often repeated, that the volunteers should continue: and this bill so far from being calculated, or intended to supersede the volunteer system, had for its object merely to render the volunteers that which they were originally in-

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tended to be, according to the principle avowed by those who first proposed their establishment namely, a body of men serving their country at their own expence. Another objection to this bill was, that its principle was compulsory, and therefore repugnant to the feelings of Englishmen. But gentlemen who used this argument, seemed to forget that there was such a thing existing in this country as a militia force, entirely mustered and recruited upon the same principle, namely, by ballot, which he always understood to be a compulsory principle; and that the army of reserve, and the former training bill, for which those very gentlemen had voted, and who were now so much shocked at the idea of compulsion, were carried on upon the very same compulsory principle of ballot; and without compulsion, and expence, which was another objection to the bill, he should be glad to know how it was possible to have any public force in the country? Another objection to the bill was, that its principle was unjust, oppressive, and a violation of a positive contract entered into by parliament and the country; namely, that if they raised, in the several districts, a certain number of men, that they should be exempt from the operation of a somewhat similar principle under a former bill: but he begged to know how such a contract, entered into under circumstances existing at that moment, was for ever after to tie up the hands of parliament, and prevent them, under any change of circumstances, from adopting measures absolutely necessary to save the country from destruction? Upon the whole, the right. hon. secretary contended, that the present bill, so far from going to abolish the volunteer system, went hand in hand with it, and was immediately calculated to keep it from going to pieces: and, in answer to the arguments of gentlemen deduced from his speeches uttered 3 years ago, he asserted that the phrases attributed to him, as in ridicule or contempt to the volunteers, were unfounded or misrepresented.
Mr. Canningreserved to himself the privilege of delivering his sentiments upon its principle, upon the report of the committee.—The question was then put, and carried for the committal of the bill, without a division. The house accordingly went into a committee, and the chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Thursday.—Adjourned at 2 o'clock on Wednesday morning.

MINUTES.
Lord Grenvillepresented a message from his majesty, relative to encreasing the pay of seamen, similar to that presented yesterday to the commons. His lordship said, he thought it wholly unnecessary to enter into any argument upon the subject, as all their lordships must be convinced of the utility and propriety of the measure. He should, therefore, merely move an address to his majesty, concurring in the object of his majesty's message. The address was agreed to, and ordered to be presented to his majesty by the lords with White staves.—The Earl of Warwick rose to make some observations respecting a system of taxation which he had proposed to the late administration. The more he considered that system, the more he was convinced of its efficacy. Under that conviction, he had also delivered it in to his majesty's present ministers. But he did not perceive that they were disposed to act upon it. Should he, however, fail to receive any communication from them respecting their ideas of the proposed plan, he should deem it his duty to submit it to their lordship's consideration.

ABOLITION OF THE SLAVE TRADE.
The Earl of Westmoreland>after referring to the petitions which he had presented against the resolutions intended to be proposed respecting the abolition of the Slave Trade, declared it to be his opinion that the parties whom these resolutions might affect, should be heard by their counsel at the bar previous to the resolutions being proposed.
Lord Grenvilledid not conceive this to be the moment for entering into the examination of evidence. When the petitions were first presented, it was competent then for the noble earl to move that counsel be heard; but as that opportunity had not then been taken to make the motion, he could not allow that such question be now started, and mixed with the question fixed for this day's discussion. He should therefore move the order of the day, for taking into consideration the resolutions upon this subject communicated by the commons, and leave it open for any noble lord to make what objections to it he should deem proper.
The Earl of Westmorelandsaid, the resolutions affected such weighty and various interests, that he thought it but justice the parties should be heard by their counsel. He should not, however, press any motion upon the subject.
Lord Grenvillethen moved, that the order of the day be read; which was accordingly done: it was for summoning their lordships, for the consideration of the vote communicated by the commons, at a conference, resolving in effect, that the Slave Trade, being contrary to the principles of humanity, justice, and sound policy, they would, early in the next session of parliament, proceed to the consideration of the abolition of the same, in such way, and at what period, as they shall think most expedient, &c. The Resolution being read by the clerk, the noble lord rose, and observed, that the Resolution their lordships had just heard read, was the determinate result of nearly 20 years discussion and inquiry upon the subject. He rejoiced that the topic had been sifted to the bottom. No pretence, or shadow of argument, could now be urged, that had not again and again been publicly discussed, and every particle of objection repeatedly refuted. The time was come, when no need existed of farther inquiry; and that period, when the voice of justice, and the voice of humanity, equally called upon that house to concur in the Resolution voted by the other house of parliament. The Resolution imported, that the African Slave trade was contrary to the principles of humanity, of justice, and of sound policy, As to the first point, could any man in that house, or in the country, he would ask, raise his voice, and, in his mind and conscience, say, that the slave trade was not contrary to humanity? What was the object of the slave trade? To tear men from the bosom of their families, their country, their friends, wives, brothers, children, from

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all that was dear to them in society, and in their country. Could any man assert such a practice was not contrary to humanity? Personal freedom was a blessing granted by God, and could not with justice be violated by man. Were their lordships to consider, only for a moment, the manner in which the unhappy objects of the traffic were procured, and which, among other records, appeared, in the evidence, which a right reverend prelate, much to his honour, had so great a share in eliciting, that alone would convince their lordships how the traffic outraged every principle of humanity. A celebrated writer on the subject, who was an advocate for the trade, admits, that the far larger portion of the slaves taken from the coasts of Africa, was procured by the crimes of those who brought them; this acknowledgement, nothing but the innate force of truth and justice could bring such a writer to make. All the natives who now acknowledged the divine precepts of Christianity, or even those who were civilized at all, had relinquished the traffic, as hostile to the first principles of humanity. The traffic, in the first instance, was now confined to the natives of Africa, whose incentive was the consequence of the avarice of those in this country, who still persisted in it. His lordship then glanced at the consideration of the middle passage, the miseries and horrors of which were acknowledged by all, save those whose hearts were steeled against every emotion of humanity. With respect to this, long experience had proved, that no really effectual remedy could apply, but total abolition. No circumstance or situation, on the face of the habitable globe, could exhibit so great a portion of human misery, condensed into such a narrow compass, as did this middle passage. This he had often occasion to expatiate upon; but he trusted their lordships' vote of that night would render the present the last occasion he should have. They would next have to consider the object of this middle passage; which was to tie and shackle the unhappy wretches who survived it, to hopeless bondage and never ending labour, in the burning climate of the West Indies! rising up and laying down, day after day, under the lash of an imperious and unfeeling task master! to those "Hope never comes which comes to all!" The exercise of uncontrouled, arbitrary power, was the never-failing corrupter of the human heart. Notwithstanding all that had been advanced on that part of the subject, the West India planters had not
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done all in their power to alleviate the sufferings of the slaves; and even if they had, the end could not effectually be obtained. Having concluded this division of his subject, the noble lord proceeded to the consideration of the case, with respect to the principles of justice. With respect to this, he contended that it militated against every principle of distributive justice. It could be no recommendation of that or of any other consideration of outrage, or robbery, to say, that it was lucrative; and, on that ground, a great part of the argument, in favour of the traffic, was rested. What right can any planter in the West Indies, or any merchant in England have to the labour of the inhabitants of Africa? In what code of the law of nations, or in what system of religion, could such a right be founded? The third question, which the Resolution he should move their lordships to concur in, involved, was, whether the trade was consistent with sound policy? On this head, he set out with contending for the broad principle, that it never can be wise or politic in nations to persevere in a course of inhumanity and injustice. Another consideration essentially connected, was the practical principle, that the labour of slaves was not equally valuable with the labour of freemen. On this head, his lordship referred to the authority of a great man (Mr. Pitt) now no more, whose loss this country had every reason to deplore, who had given a great share of his attention to this very interesting and important subject, and whose heart and mind were set upon the great measure of abolition, as all who knew him in private could attest. On no occasion whatever were the great and splendid talents, or the irresistible eloquence of that great man, exerted in a more conspicuous degree, than on this great and interesting subject; and, in the course of his discussions of it, his calculations, with respect to the comparative value of the labour of freemen and slaves, were luminous and convincing. One of the incontrovertible results of these, was, that the expences of procuring the unhappy objects in question, the expences of transporting them, and their maintenance afterwards, comparing all these with the value of the labour actually performed, evinced that this labour was not so profitable, by much, as that of freemen brought to the work in the first instance. In addition to this great and incontrovertible authority, was that of a celebrated writer on the subject, who argued, that the only thing which could preserve the planters

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from the ruin impending over them, was the abolition of the slave trade. The fresh importations were, upon the whole, regarded as disadvantageous, and chiefly on account of the mortalities. His lordship then adverted to the important consideration of what had happened in St. Domingo, and which, if no other fact or argument could be adduced of the impolicy of continuing the traffic, the consideration of the direful calamities to which he alluded, would suffice. In urging their lordships to concur in the resolution of the Commons, he pointed their attention to the nature and effect of that resolution. To the result of it, they could not, deeming the traffic to be against humanity, justice, and policy, consistently refuse their assent, viz. that they would proceed to the consideration of steps tending to abolish such a traffic, in a way, and at such a period, as should be deemed most expedient; and to this principle he could challenge the acquiescence of every noble lord who was not prepared to say the slave trade ought never to be abolished. Neither did it implicate them to the vote of attempting the immediate abolition, or to any particular mode of accomplishing it, but merely to the principle of total abolition. This consideration, however, should not deter him, strongly as he felt upon the point, from supporting and urging their lordships' compliance with the vote ,of the commons; as, though he could not attain all the good he wished, he should endeavour to perform all that circumstances offered as practicable. Upon this principle, and on the grounds he had stated, he should move "that their lordships do concur in the Resolution communicated by the commons.
Lord Hawkesburyconcurred with the noble lord in opinion, that if a trade was carried on, which was contrary to humanity and justice, there could be no question as to its being contrary to sound policy. This however, was not the way in which he viewed this question. It was not upon abstract principles, that the question as to the abolition of the slave trade, ought to be considered, but as to its practical effect, and in this view of the subject, the noble lord had advanced principles in the course of his speech, which he did not venture to sanction in the motion with which he concluded. The same principles upon which the noble lord condemned the slave trade, applied with equal force to the state of slavery itself, but the noble lord would not venture to bring forward any measure founded upon these principles, as applying to the actual
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state of slavery in the West Indies. This, therefore, shewed the fallacy of bringing forward abstract principles, without at the same time looking to the practical effect. He did not believe that our ceasing to trade to Africa for Negroes, would be of the slightest benefit to the people of that continent, nor did he believe that one slave less would be imported on account of our giving up the trade: the only effect would be, that British capital would be transferred to foreign Islands, that the trade would be transferred to other hands, where the same regulations for ameliorating the condition of time negroes in their passage did not exist, and that thus no benefit would practically result from time measure Slavery was undoubtedly an evil, and the slave trade was an evil; so, many other evils existed, particularly comparative evils in the state of human society; but it did not follow that every evil was to be abolished, without reference to the practical effect of such abolition; as, in such case, a greater evil might be produced by the sudden change than previously existed. The instance of St. Domingo, adduced by the noble lord, made more against, than for his argument, as the horrid revolution in that island was caused by abstract principles, embodied in the form of legislation in the mother country, without reference to the practical effect, or to the policy of carrying such principles into execution. With respect to the resolution itself, he did not see that it led to any practical conclusion, nor did he think it a right mode of proceeding, to adopt a general resolution, containing an abstract principle respecting the abolition of the slave trade, without having previously considered the practical means by which that trade was to be abolished, or the practical effect which would be thereby produced.
The Bishop of Londonbestowed much praise upon the eloquent speech of the noble lord who had brought this subject forward, agreed entirely in the propriety of the measure now proposed, and expatiated on the injustice, inhumanity, and impolicy of the slave trade. He quoted a variety of authorities from the best books on the subject, and which had been published before it came under parliamentary discussion, front all which he maintained, that the trade ought to be abolished; he maintained also, that the slave trade was not countenanced by any thing in Holy writ, either in the Old or the New Testament. He was a decided friend to the present resolution, as a step

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towards the much to be wished for abolition of the African slave trade, which had been artfully, by its advocates, blended with the emancipation of the negroes in the West Indies, with which it had no real connection.
The Lord Chancellordeclared that he never hitherto had taken any share in the discussion of this subject, while a member of the other house, when his opinion was rather adverse to the measure; but having read the evidence, he had good reason to alter that opinion. He had been in the West Indies some years ago, and had seen all the great plantations in Jamaica, and he declared the condition of the slaves was almost uniformly ameliorated, and they were generally treated with kindness, such as he had known a great family in this country use to their ancient domestics. He also had been an eye witness to the trade carried on on the coast of Africa, and although he could not say in what manner they might have been collected in the interior, yet their treatment on the coast, and during the middle passage, was inhuman to a degree, most shocking! Parents were torn from their children, infants snatched from the breast of their mothers, while the unhappy parents were pinioned down in chains to the bottom of the hold of a Guinea ship, frequently surrounded by famine and death. He then adverted to the case of a policy of insurance tried in the court of king's bench, where the slaves, in hopes of liberty, having attacked the crew, were fired upon, and while some were mortally wounded, others were thrown overboard, a prey to the sharks; while those who remained, were mingled with the dead and dying; and in this case, continued the learned lord, a British jury was called on to say how many were lost by death, how many by the perils of the sea, and thus to indemnify the robber against the loss of his plunder; he therefore asked, was this practice consistent with humanity and ,justice? And as we knew the evil to exist, it was our duty to God, and to our country, which was the morning star that enlightened Europe, and whose boast and glory was to grant liberty and life, and administer humanity and justice to all nations, to remedy that evil; and he had so high an opinion of the planters in those islands, that he was convinced they would go hand in hand with the parliament upon this measure.
The Earl of Westmorelandcongratulated the noble and learned lord upon the new
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light which had flashed upon him; but having himself presented the petition against this measure, he would offer a few observations. The question was not between the merchants of Liverpool and the abolitionists, but a great general question, involving the interests of the public at large. This measure called upon the house to pledge itself to libel their ancestors, and calumniate individuals. At this period of the year, he considered it impolitic and improper for government to entertain abstract resolutions upon this subject, which might, although consistent with justice and humanity, be contrary to policy, and vice versa, and should not be brought forward without further evidence, examination, and proof. He quoted Holy Writ, to shew that slavery existed from the beginning of the world to the present day, and was not contrary to the law of nations; and, putting out of the question all that had been sung in ballads, or written in novels, there still was nothing inimical to this practice. He thought the present, being so near the close of the sessions, was not a fit time to try the question, and therefore gave it his decided opposition.
The Bishop of St. Asaphreplied, that however the Mosaic and other laws might have allowed slavery, under certain restrictions, yet there was no authority whatever authorising the slave trade. The state of slavery was an evil degrading to mankind, and though fed with the choicest viands, and always reclining on a bed of roses, the idea to him was abominable; it was inconsistent with justice and humanity, and contrary to the principles of that religion which taught us to promote and diffuse happiness among our fellow creatures. He, therefore, warmly supported the present motion, hoping it would be the forerunner of the general abolition of that practice.
The Earl of Suffolkmade a few observations in favour of the measure.
Lord Hollandconsidered the arguments, on the other side, wholly misapplied to the question before the house, which was a measure, since he was able to think upon the subject, he always looked upon as inhuman, disgraceful, and degrading to this country; and for these reasons heartily concurred in the motion of his noble friend.
Lord Sidmouthdeclared his sentiments in favour of the general principle of the measure, but opposed the present question on the ground, that he could not reconcile it to himself to have it put upon the journals of that house, that any long established

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custom of this country was inhuman and unjust, until some certain mode was adopted for the abolition of such a custom.
Earl Stanhopeexpressed much surprise at hearing what fell from the noble lord who last spoke; his arguments were paradoxical, nor had he ever heard so whimsical a reason given in so whimsical a way. The question, whether this was just or unjust, could not be doubted, when it was recollected that whole villages were stripped of their women and children, to supply the rapacity of those brutes in the West Indies.
Earl Grosvenorprofessed himself a warm friend to the abolition of the slave trade. He lamented that the public feeling had been kept so long from being gratified on this subject, and trusted the present administration would meet with no obstacles in the way of carrying their measure for the abolition early in the next session of parliament.
Earl Fitzwilliamfelt rather alarmed at the consequences the resolutions might produce, but could not help feeling disposed to support them.
Lord Grenvilledid not feel it necessary to trouble the house with any reply; but took occasion to observe, that he should this night make another motion for an address to his majesty, praying he would be graciously pleased to consult with other powers towards the accomplishment of the same end, which would afford another opportunity to those who were anxious again to divide upon this favourite question.—The house then divided on the question of concurring in the resolutions, when there appeared, Contents 41; Non-contents 20.— Majory 21. On returning below the bar, we found that Lord Grenville's motion for an address was carried without a division.