Sitting of 5 June 1806

Minutes.
Mr. D. Davenport took the oaths and his seat for Cheshire, in the room of Mr. Egertou, deceased.—The Customs Fees Abolition bill was brought up, and read a first time.—The house resolved itself into a committee on the Scotch Distillery acts. Mr Vansittart stated various inconveniences, that arose from the present mode of collecting the duties on distilleries in Scotland; and concluded by moving, that they should be collected in the form mentioned in the resolutions which he was about to propose. These were handed to the chairman (Mr. Hobhouse); who took the sense of the committee, whether, as the particulars were to appear on the Votes, he should then read them. The sense of the house being against reading the particulars then; the resolutions were agreed to, and the house resumed.—Mr. Foster rose, pursuant to notice, to move for papers relative to the Corn Trade. He accordingly moved for several accounts respecting the quantity of corn, flour, &c. imported and exported, between Great Britain and Ireland, for the last 12 years; the drawbacks and bounties allowed, during the same period, for exports and imports of corn, to and from Great Britain and Ireland, and the Ameri-

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can colonies; together with the average prices; which were ordered accordingly.—Lord Castlereagh moved for so much of a letter, dated the 4th of December, 1800, of the court of directors to the Bengal government, as related to the transactions in Oude. Ordered.—Mr. Paull moved for the production of the correspondence of the Bengal government with col. Scott, respecting the arrangements made by marquis Wellesley, pursuant to the treaty of Lucknow concluded in 1801. These papers had before been moved for; but then were thirteen omissions in the correspondence, all of them, in his opinion, of importance. Lord Castlereagh, after what had passed the preceding night, trusted that he might be allowed to state how the matter stood. Strictly speaking, the late board of control was not a party to the return at all, for it had been made by the present hoard; therefore, if there was anything improper in the discretion exercised the present board was responsible. But he had no objection to state what would have been the course, had they continued in office. They had determined to keep back part of the papers; but left them in such a state, that their successors might judge for themselves. However, he had stated, confidentially, to the hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Creevey) his views upon the subject: they wished to withhold that part which related to the private character of the nabob vizier, which they considered it as disrespectful to him to publish. They, therefore, set aside five letters. There were, also, four or five paragraphs kept out of different papers, because they were to be found in other papers presented, and the reasons were stated in marginal notes. He had no objection, however, to the production of the omitted paragraphs, if the hon gent. wished to have them. Lord Morpeth said, that they had thought of withholding some papers, as being private and confidential; but if the hon. gent. was of opinion that they would support his cause, he might have them. As to the letters respecting the private character of the nabob vizier, he thought that extracts from these would answer his purpose. Mr. Creevey agreed in what had been said by his noble friend.—Mr. Paull said, that he had come to the knowledge of these papers from the dispatch of the directors; and contended, that such as he called for would not injure the character of the nabob. He thought, therefore, that the whole should be produced.
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He did not stand up for the character of the nabob vizier; but a more correct and dignified conduct had never been displayed by any European prince. From the oppression and tyranny which he had suffered, he had, to be sure, resorted to means to kill care; and if, by these means, he was unfitted for the management of his affairs, it was an additional reason why the papers should be produced. He then read one of the omissions from a letter in his hand; which one lord Castlereagh pointed out in the printed papers. But Mr. Paull insisted, that the tendency and bearing were different in the letters. Sir Arthur Wellesley had no objection to the production of the papers in question, on the part of marquis Wellesley. They would even be of advantage to his noble relation; but his cause did not need their support; and, therefore, he thought that those relating to the private conduct of the nabob ought to be suppressed, because it ought to be considered that he was a mussulman, and the publication might do him a great deal of injury in his own country. After a few words from Mr. Wallace, the motion was put and carried.—Sir John Sinclair called the attention of the house to the subject of the state of the highways and broad-wheeled waggons. He was of opinion, from the statements of an ingenious mechanic, and other circumstances, that various improvements might be made in this respect. He would, therefore, move for a committee, to consider the acts relative to the highways and broad-wheeled waggons, with a view to form proper regulations on this point, and report to the house. Mr. Curwen seconded the motion, and a committee was accordingly appointed.

AFFAIRS OF INDIA—OUDE CHARGE.
Mr. Paullgave notice that, on the 10th of June, he would move the consideration of the Oude charge. The speaker observed, that it was his duty to say, that the 18th of June had already been appointed for that purpose; and though an order might be postponed, it could not, according to the practice of the house, be accelerated. Mr. Paull said, that the house had not been brought into this dilemma by him.
Mr. Foxrequested the speaker to read the question again: and, having heard it, said, that the thing was impossible: an order might be postponed, but not accelerated; and he did not know what the hon. gent. meant.
Sir Arthur Wellesleysaid that, as the

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noble lord was not in the house, who moved the consideration of the charge on the 18th, he would propose, that the hon. gent. should, in the mean time, call his witnesses, and examine them at the bar.
Mr. Paullthen moved, that the 18th be inserted instead of the 10th of June.
Mr. Foxsaid, that the 18th had already been fixed upon; but the hon. gent. might move, that his witnesses should attend on the 18th.
Sir Arthur Wellesleyobserved, that the noble lord, who proposed the 18th, did it with a view to have a decision on that day. For his part, he only wished to have a decision this session. The hon. gent. might call his evidence on the 10th, if consistent with the orders of the house; and it might be considered on the 18th. He hoped, at all events, that the matter would not be delayed beyond the present session.
Mr. Foxobserved that, whatever might be the wishes of the hon. general, they could not supersede the established rules of the house. Evidence might be laid on the table; but oral evidence could only be taken when the subject was under consideration. The order then was, to consider it further and further, as there should appear occasion. Though the hon. gent. moved that his witnesses should be called on the 18th; yet it was not to be understood, that they were therefore to be heard. He concluded by declaring, that though the forms of the house could not be violated, yet that every facility ought to be given to the business, that the time of the house, and the interests of substantial justice, would allow.
Mr. Paullsaid, that no one had ever, in a similar situation, proceeded so rapidly as he had done. There should be no delay on his part.
Mr. Franciswished to know whether the hearing of evidence was equivalent to the taking a thing into consideration? If printed evidence was received before the period of entering upon the consideration of a subject, why should not oral evidence? If we could get over this difficulty, the evidence might be heard in the mean time.
Mr. Foxreplied that, by the forms of the house, oral evidence could not be received, except when a subject was under consideration, and this was the case: he apprehended, for these, among other reasons, that proper limits might be set to the evidence, and that the members might have it as fresh as possible in their recollection.
Mr. Paullthen moved, that the fol-
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lowing gentlemen be ordered to attend the house on the 18th, viz. lord Teignmouth, general sir Alured Clarke, gen. sir J. Craig, lieut. col. Edward Baynes, major-general St. Leger, col. Alex. Kidd, and H. Strachey, esq.
Sir Henry Stracheysaid, that Mr. Strachey was under orders for India; and that it would be hard, if he should be detained by order of the house.
Mr. Paullsaid, that this gentleman had been private secretary to the governor, during the transactions at Furruckabad and other places, and must, of course, be well acquainted with them. But he would still waive the order as to him, if it would occasion him any serious inconvenience; it being understood, however, that he was to attend, if he should not have quitted the country. Upon this, Mr. Strachey was struck out of the motion; which was then agreed to.

CORN INTERCOURSE BILL.
The house, on the motion of sir J. Newport, resolved itself into a committee, to take into consideration the propriety of a motion for leave to bring in a bill to establish a free intercourse between Great Britain and Ireland, in the mutual export and import of certain species of grain between the two countries. The house accordingly resolved into a committee.
Mr. Fosterrose and observed, that there were some difficulties in the way of such a bill, which, unless satisfactorily obviated, would present insurmountable objections to its being passed into a law. At present, the corn trades of both countries were regulated under acts of parliament, respectively, which established, in each country, an average rate of price for the different species of grain; which average being attained in the home market, the ports were closed against exportation, and opened for importation; and below which price exportation was permitted, and importation precluded. This regulation was made with a view to prevent an excessive price of the necessary of life to the home consumer; and, at the same time, to allow every reasonable advantage to the agricultural interests in each kingdom. Now, by the proposed bill, as far as he was enabled to conjecture, although the price of corn in England should be above the average which admitted of exportation, yet the price in Ireland might be so much cheaper, as to admit the continuance of exports from thence; and, therefore, by the proposed

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bill, which, he understood, was to allow the free interchange of corn between both countries, without bounty or duty, the English merchant who wished to elude the law, and export British corn to foreign countries, would have nothing to do but consign it through the medium of Ireland; and, vice versâ, so might the Irish merchant elude the law of that country, by exporting through England. The only mode by which, in his contemplation, such mischievous consequences could be avoided, would be to restrain and regulate the corn trade of both countries by one general average from the mass of prices in both. The average in England was taken from a comparison of twelve districts; the Scotch trade was regulated by the British standard; and the Irish, by an average of the prices in every part of the kingdom. Now, by regulating the general export rate in all the ports of the .united kingdom, from an average of the whole mass of prices, collectively, the evil would be obviated, which would, otherwise, be unavoidable, under the proposed bill.
Mr. Westonexpressed his readiness to give to Ireland every boon and advantage, not actually inconsistent with the fair interests of Great Britain; and observed that, although so much had not been granted as was sought about two years since, yet he believed, that what had then been granted had been of considerable advantage to Ireland. He did not, at present, see any objection to the proposed measure, particularly if under the regulations and restrictions suggested by the right hon. gent. who had just sat down; but he hoped it would be considered as a boon to Ireland.
Sir John Newportwas ready to admit, that what had been already done for Ireland, on this head, had been of mutual advantage to both countries, and of as much to this as to Ireland: the great exporting grain from this country to Ireland was barley; of which, in the last year, the quantity was 110,000 quarters; and the principal grain exported from Ireland to England and Scotland, was oats; of which the quantity was very great indeed, beyond the supply afforded by their own produce for their necessary consumption; and, therefore, the interchange of these grains, alone, would be a considerable accommodation to the agriculture and consumption of both nations. He was very willing thankfully to acknowledge, on the part of Ireland, any boon conferred by this country; but, at the same time, it must not be forgotten, that every
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such boon, so conferred upon the agriculture of Ireland, was given to the best customer this country had in Europe for her manufactures.
Mr. Fosterbegged leave to add a few words, in order to ascertain, beyond misconception, the object he had in view. In the way of the suggestion he had proposed, and which, he understood, was admitted, there were certainly difficulties, but not insurmountable ones. The average prices of corn in Ireland, by which its export and import were to be regulated, could be communicated to every outport in the kingdom in five days after quarter-day. Nearly the same expedition could be obtained, in a similar communication, to the outports of Great Britain, with respect to the average prices here: but, in placing both countries mutually under the same regulations, a longer delay must necessarily occur. Much of the difficulty, however, would be removed, by consulting the aid of experienced and practical men; which might be done during the progress of the bill.—Lord Archibald Hamilton said a few words in approbation of the measure; after which sir John Newport moved, that the chairman be instructed to move the house for leave to bring in the bill; which was agreed to.

Minutes.
The Irish Customs bill, the Irish Revenue Regulation bill, and the Irish Malt bill, were read a 3d time and passed, and a message sent to the commons to acquaint them therewith.—The Property Duty bill, and the Irish Additional Force Repeal bill, were read a 2d time.—The duke of Montrose moved for some accounts respecting the Commerce of Dominica, with reference to the Tortola Free-Port bill, which were ordered.—Earl Spencer adverted to the order which stood for the next day, with reference to the motion
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which his noble friend (lord Grenville) had given notice of his intention to bring forward, relative to the Administration of Justice in Scotland. His noble friend, in consequence of indisposition, would be unable to be in his place the next day; and, therefore, he wished to postpone the order till the next day se'nnight, when his noble friend would probably be enabled to attend. The order for summoning their lordships for the next day was discharged, and renewed for the next day se'nnight.—The order for the attendance of witnesses, relative to the case of Mr. Justice Fox, which stood for the next day, was, on the motion of lord Walsingham, discharged, and renewed for Wednesday next, on which day the lords were ordered to be summoned.—Strangers were ordered to withdraw; and their lordships resumed the consideration of the evidence adduced on the trial of lord viscount Melville. The judges attended, and delivered their opinion, in answer to the questions referred to them on Tuesday. The discussion afterwards continued till half past eleven o'clock, when the further consideration of the subject was deferred till the next day.