Sitting of 3 June 1806

MINUTES
Mr. Pattisonmoved that the evidence taken before the committee

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on the Norwich Paving bill should be laid before the house. After a few words from Mr. Fellowes and Mr. Hurst, this motion was negatived. Mr. Fellowes then moved that the bill be read a third time. Mr. Paterson opposed it on the grounds that from the reduced state of the town in point of trade and opulence, and the pressure of a variety of pecuniary burthens, this was not the proper time for it. After a few observations, however, from Mr. Fellowes, Mr. W. Smith, and Mr. S. Le Fevre, the bill was read a 3d time and passed.—Sir John Anderson presented a petition from the London Dock directors against the East London Water-works bill. Ordered to lie on the table.—On the motion of lord Temple, it was ordered that the house should, at its rising, adjourn till Thursday.

AMERICAN INTERCOURSE BILL.
Lord Castlereagh,though the second reading of the American Intercourse bill stood for Thursday, hoped that it would not come on so soon, as parliament ought not to be pressed to decide upon it before it was in possession of the requisite information. He thought the house should be in possession of the instructions given to the governors of the West-India islands, by the late administration, which he considered as consonant with the soundest principles of the navigation act. He also wished to have those instructions which had been subsequently, sent; and concluded by moving, that the instructions sent to the governors of the West-India islands, relative to the American intercourse, of the 5th September, 1804, should be laid before the house; as also copies of any instructions subsequently sent.
Lord Templehad no objection to the papers; but as to the postponing of the second reading of the bill, if he did that, it would be on account of the state of the public business, and not on account of any argument urged by the noble lord. He contended that the bill ought to pass with all convenient speed.
Mr. Percevalobserved, that though it did not pass this session, the West-India colonies would only be in the same situation that they had been in for the last thirteen years. He did not, therefore, see any particular necessity for pressing the bill forward with any great haste. He did not see the propriety of the noble lord urging it on by that command which his situation gave him over the house, before the proper information was produced.
Mr. Plumersaid, that it was irregular
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to say that the noble lord had a command over the house.
Mr. Perceval,in explanation, said, that he did not see where the irregularity was in saying, that the noble lord's situation and eloquence gave him great influence in the house.
Mr. Plumerobserved, that if the hon. and learned gent. had not used the word command, he would beg his pardon.
Mr. Rosewished to know whether it was the intention of the noble lord to postpone the second reading of the bill beyond Thursday. He adverted to the petitions that had been presented, and the great interests that were concerned in this business. If a committee was granted him, he undertook to finish the evidence up stairs in three days. He had, during the last few months, seen the most extraordinary measures that ever he had observed in parliament; but this was the most extraordinary of them all. His lordship had expressed his doubts whether he would postpone it upon the arguments of the noble lord near him. This was the most extraordinary language, and such as was seldom heard in that house.
Lord Temple,in explanation, said, that his doubts as to postponing it arose from the state of business before the house; and he had expressly said that this was the ground of his doubt, and not any argument of the noble lord. As to the merits of the case, the right hon. gent.'s proposition for a committee would have been perfectly proper had the bill been a measure of repeal. But it was merely a matter of regulation, enabling the government to do that by law which had been for several years past done without law, or against it. However, he would postpone the second reading of the bill till Friday.—The papers were then granted.

ABOLITION OF THE SLAVE TRADE.
Mr. Secretary Foxrose to give notice, that he should on Tuesday next bring forward a resolution respecting the final Abolition of the Slave trade. He conceived it would be too late in the present session to propose any bill upon the subject; but as it was one of those important subjects upon which his majesty's present ministers had pledged their opinions to the house, he thought it high time to evince their determination of carrying those opinions into effect.
General Tarletonwished to know the specific tenour of the right hon. gentleman's intended motion.
Mr. Secretary Foxsaid, he had no wish to conceal from the hon. gent. the purport

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of his motion; but he had not yet shaped it into any specific form of words. His object, however, was, that the house should pledge itself to some resolution for entering, as early as possible, into the consideration of this subject, with a view to the abolition of the slave trade, but without settling any particular period for that purpose.

AFFAIRS OF INDIA—OUDE CHARGE.
Lord Tenple,pursuant to the notice he had given upon a former day, now rose for the purpose of moving a specific day, for taking into consideration the charges of high crimes and misdemeanours against the marquis Wellesley, laid upon the table by an hon. member, on the 28th of last month. He hoped it would not be necessary for him to preface his motion by observations to any great length. But as the hon. member, who had brought forward those charges, had named no particular day for moving the house to their consideration; feeling, as he did, the nature and importance of those charges, to be such as called for their full investigation with the least possible delay, he now rose for that purpose. Gentlemen, who had looked into those charges, must have felt them to be of the most weighty nature. They directly imputed to lord Wellesley, not only every species of public delinquency that could brand the character of a public officer, but every charge of private depravity that could stain the personal reputation of an individual. He had no doubt, that the hon. gent. who brought forward those charges, had done so under a self-persuasion of their truth, and a belief that he should be able to substantiate them in evidence. He would not pay the hon. gent. so bad a compliment, as to suppose he would bring forward such charges against any man, much less against the noble lord, unless he was himself persuaded they were founded in fact, and without being prepared with evidence which he himself conceived competent to sustain them. But the hon. gent. must allow that, notwithstanding the strength of his own persuasion upon the subject, it was still possible the noble lord might possess a confidence in his own innocence, superior to every accusation of such a nature, and must feel extremely impatient for the opportunity of his own vindication; more especially, when those charges included one of a nature more atrocious than all the rest, and such a one as called for the most immediate investigation, namely, the charge of a foul, deliberate, and cruel murder. In this charge was
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also included another person, not a member of either house of parliament; for whose account, also, much anxiety must be felt, though he had not the honour even of a slight personal acquaintance with him, namely, Mr. Henry Wellesley. But, from the nature of the charges altogether, and more especially the last, it became absolutely necessary, that an early investigation should now take place. If the hon. gent. had named any day for such an enquiry, it would not be his wish to take it out of his hands: for the present, however, he should move, "That the Article of Charge, of high Crimes and Misdemeanours committed by marquis Wellesley, in his transactions with respect to the nabob vizier of Oude, which was delivered in at the table, and read upon the 28th day of May last, be taken into consideration upon to-morrow fortnight, the 18th day of this instant June." If the hon. gent. should then have any motion to submit to the house upon the subject, he would have an opportunity of doing so. If not, he (lord Temple) should certainly propose a motion on the subject.
Mr. Paulladverted to the precedent of Mr. Burke's proceedings against Mr. Hastings; and said, that that right hon. gent., after 5 years' deliberation, and repeated motions, had, upon the 4th of April, 1786, laid on the table 7 articles of charge against Mr. Hastings; on the 12th of April, he laid 4 more; and, on the 7th of May, 3 more; and, notwithstanding the right hon. gent. had taken 5 years to deliberate upon his purpose; that he had the benefit of the reports of the secret committee, of various papers he moved for, and of evidence examined at the bar for the proof of his charges; yet it was not in less than 6 weeks afterwards, that he moved the house to any proceeding upon those charges. Now, he had given notice only the preceding day, that he had witnesses to examine; and had, also, moved for a number of papers, many of which were absolutely necessary in support of the charges alluded to by the noble lord. Let those witnesses be examined at the bar; let those papers be produced in proper time; and he should not have the smallest objection to proceed to the investigation on the day proposed. Indeed, it was his intention to have moved for that day, if the testimony and documents had been fairly before the house; but, until they were, he should not be induced to move one step to the right or to the left, or to move one degree quicker or slower,

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in consequence of the noble lord's motion, or of any importunity from the friends of lord Wellesley.
Lord Archibald Hamiltoncould not let pass some expressions which had fallen from the noble lord, without making a few observations upon them. The noble lord had complained, that the charges of the hon. gent. went to impeach the private character of lord Wellesley, for acts merely of public and official conduct; and that he had applied to the noble marquis, personally, every atrocious epithet, of tyranny, cruelty, oppression, plunder, and even of murder, for acts done in his public and official situation. But he must conceive it impossible, that such could have been the purpose of the hon. gent.; and as to the charge of murder, he did not conceive it to be put by the hon. gent. in the way it was imputed. But really, if, in bringing forward charges such as those now on the table of the house, and every tittle of which his lordship conceived to be warranted by the documents already brought forward in support of them, a member was to be restrained in the use of such language, and such epithets, as were usual in expressing opinions extremely natural to his feelings, upon such circumstances as those charged, lest the private character of the party accused should be supposed to be implicated in his public conduct, it would be impossible for any man to devise a becoming language for bringing before that house criminal charges against public delinquency in any man.
Sir John Newportexpressed some surprise, how the noble lord who spoke last, if he had read the charges upon the table, could so far mistake that particular charge, which related to murder, as to say the crime was not roundly and specifically charged against the noble marquis, in conjunction with others. The hon. bart. here read an extract from the charge; which stated, that the said marquis, in conjunction with Henry Wellesley, had, with numbers of armed men, surrounded the mansions of certain zemindars and rajahs, the subjects of the nabob of Oude, and within his dominions; and did attack, slay, and destroy, several of the said rajah's zemindars, and their attendants and adherents; and did sack and plunder their said mansions of their property; thus completing the measure of his oppression and tyranny, by a foul, deliberate, wanton, and cruel murder. If this, then, was not a charge of
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murder, couched in as strong words as had ever appeared in the language of an indictment, he was at a loss to conceive what words could describe it more strongly.
Sir Arthur Wellesleyrose, to express some surprise at the declaration made by the noble lord who spoke last but one; namely, that he thought the charges against the noble marquis, his relation, borne out by the documents already laid upon the table; and more especially as the hon. gent. (Mr. Paull) had said, only the moment before, that he could not sustain those charges, without several other documents, which he had moved for; and also, the examination of several witnesses at the bar. It was very extraordinary, therefore, that the noble lord should pronounce so decidedly upon the truth of charges (which, however, remained to be proved), that his hon. friend, who brought them forward, declared he was not able to sustain without much more evidence. With respect to the charge of murder, however, it was one of too foul and atrocious a nature to be suffered to go forth unexplained, or remain as a stain upon the character of his noble relation, without placing the circumstances, upon which it was founded, in a proper point of view. There were certain officers, called zemindars and rajahs, resident in that part of the nabob's territory which was ceded to the company in 1801, and rendered liable to pay certain tributes, in the way of land-tax upon that territory, annually, to the company. The first year's tribute they did pay, he believed, regularly; and the regulations of the company, which were the laws of the country, were promulgated and established in that territory; but, upon the 2d payment being required, instead of complying with the law, they combined to resist it: they assembled together their armed forces, under the chief command of an officer named Amas Ali Khan; they retired to their forts; they set the laws at defiance; they refused to pay any tribute; and it was found necessary by the governor-general, in support of the laws, to reduce those men by force. So formidable were they, that it required the whole of the Bengal army, with the commander-in-chief at their head, to effect this service. They were attacked in their forts, and, in the course of their obstinate resistance, some persons fell; some blood was spilt; and this was what the hon. gent. imputed to the noble marquis as a murder. It was an act of public power, done-in-sup-

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port of the laws of the country, like what would have been done against any class of British subjects, in similar resistance to the laws passed by that house; and the house would judge how far it was just to describe such a measure by the epithet of murder.
Lord A. Hamiltonexplained, that when he said the charge was warranted by the papers on the table, he could not be supposed to mean that it was proved. This was quite a different thing.
Mr. Goldingsaid, a charge of murder was as well warranted against the lord lieutenant of Ireland, for the death of the rebels, slain in the suppression of the late insurrections in that country; or against the magistrates of London, and the ministers of the time, for the death of those killed in the suppression of the riots in 1780.
Mr. Foxsubmitted whether this was a time to enter upon the merits of the case; and expressed his hope, that the subject would be dismissed for the present.
Dr. Laurencesaid, that it was impossible, in a case of this kind, to fix a particular day. The house could not, with any propriety, proceed to the consideration of the charge, till the whole of the evidence was before them. Papers had been moved for, which had been suppressed by the late board of controul, and had not yet been produced.
Lord Castlereaghcomplained of the illiberal manner in which he had been treated by the hon. and learned gent., who said that he had suppressed papers, when he had only exercised a proper discretion, thinking that the communication would be injurious to the public service. He thought the learned gent. ought rather to have made a specific motion on the subject, and then he should be prepared to defend himself. These papers would not certainly justify the expression in the charge.
Mr. Johnstonesaid, that the papers in question related to troops and forts, and other matters of public notoriety, and were, therefore, the worst grounds in the world for the exercise of this discretion. As he was on his legs, he must say, that the word "murder" was improperly applied.
Lord H. Pettyagreed with his right hon. friend (Mr. Fox), that this was a most improper time for entering on the merits of the case; and hoped, therefore, that the subject would be dropped.—The motion was then put and carried.

EXEMPTIONS FROM TAXES.
Lord Henry Pettyrose, and stated, that a very general misconception prevailed as to the
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exemptions to be allowed to persons having small incomes and large families. The measure which he intended to propose on that subject, was completely distinct from the Property tax; and his object was to frame it in such a manner, that it should not be liable to the same objections as exemptions under the property tax. He might not have been misunderstood in that house; but a wrong impressiom had been conveyed to the public by other channels. It was painful to him to be misconceived on this point; and he now stated the matter again, in hopes that the wrong impression would be done away. The proposed relief would be afforded on a footing entirely distinct, and not liable to the objections which had been stated against any farther exemptions to be afforded under the Property tax.
Mr. Longwished to know, whether the proposed relief was to be afforded in the Assessed taxes?
Lord H. Pettywas not prepared to state precisely; but the relief would be, at least, partly on the Assessed taxes, and would be in proportion of all children above two.
Mr. Wilberforcestated his satisfaction at this proposed regulation.

CORN INTERCOURSE BILL.
Sir J. Newportrose with peculiar satisfaction on the present occasion; as he was convinced it would be sufficient merely to state the measure, of which he had given notice, to ensure the full concurrence of the house. This measure, in which he was supported by the authority of his majesty's ministers, went to lay open the intercourse in grain between Great Britain and Ireland; and, he trusted, it would be merely a prelude to that free interchange of every other commodity between the two countries, which was so much to be desired. With regard to grain, an article of the first necessity, there could be no doubt that one part of the united kingdom should assist another whenever occasion demanded it; and the only way of preventing an undue rise in the price of the commodity in any part of the country was, to remove every limit and obstruction in the way of its interchange. The measure, which he should propose, would place all the ports of the united kingdom exactly on the same footing, with regard to importation or exportation, as the different ports of Great Britain were at present, with regard to one another. It was earnestly to be wished, that the union between the two countries should become

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every day more close; and that the channel which divided them should no longer be considered as a barrier, but as a bond of union, and the medium of mutual and beneficial intercourse.—He then moved for leave to bring in a bill, for making the Intercourse in Grain, between Great Britain and Ireland, free and unrestrained.

MUTINY BILL.
Mr. Alexanderhaving appeared at the bar, with the report of the committee on the Mutiny bill, on the question that it be brought up,
Mr. S. Bournerose, not for the purpose of discussing this subject at present; but to give notice, that, on the 3d reading, if no member anticipated him, it was his intention to move an amendment, that no men should be discharged in time of war. As he was on his legs, he would observe, that, 3 months ago, the right hon. secretary for the war department had received the orders of the house, to bring in a bill for the discontinuance of the Ballot, and for the better Defence of the Realm. As this was a late period of the session, he wished to ask the right hon. gent. whether or not it was his intention to bring forward this bill?
Mr. Secretary Windhamexpressed his intention of bringing this bill in on Thursday. In answer to some observations from sir W. Elford, relative to the Ballot for Militia, the right hon. secretary said, that it was not his intention to propose the abolishment of the ballot; but that when regiments had been reduced to the proposed establishment, vacancies occurring in them should not, for the present, be filled up by ballot, but by recruiting.
Sir J. Pulteneygave notice, that on the 3d reading he should propose an amendment for confining the limited service to the 2d battalions.—The report was then brought up and agreed to.

MINUTES.
The Temple-bar Lottery bill was read a second time.—The Irish Revenue Collection bill, and the Irish Malt bill, passed through committees, and were reported.—The Earl of Moira presented a petition from Mr. Justice Fox, which was read short by the clerk, praying that the house would take his case into consideration, and do what should seem meet to them therein. Ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Alexander and several other members of the commons, brought up the Irish Sugar bill, and the Irish Additional Force Repeal bill, which were read a first time. Lord Eldon rose to move the order of the day. Earl Stanhope wished previously to offer some observations to the house. Earl Bathurst moved that the house should be cleared. Strangers were immediately excluded, and the consideration of the evidence adduced on the trial of lord Melville was resumed.—The discussion continued till ten o'clock. Several questions were referred to the judges, who were to deliver their opinion, in answer, on the following Thursday, to which day the house adjourned.