Sitting of 26 March 1805

MINUTES.
Mr. Rosebrought up the American Neutral Trade bill, which was read a first time.—Mr. Rose brought up the bill granting to aliens abroad the same privileges in the disposal of prizes as were now possessed by the natives of the United Kingdom. Read a first time.—The Secretary at War obtained leave to bring in a bill similar to that of last year, for increas-
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ing the rates of subsistence to be paid to innkeepers and others for quartering troops, &c.—Mr. Huskisson brought up the additional Import Duty bill, and the additional Excise Duty bill, which were read a first time.—Col. Stanley presented a petition, praying that another Petition from the Duke of Athol, relative to the improvements in the Isle of Man, might be brought up. The cause of its being so long delayed was, that as it applied for a grant of public money, it was necessary to obtain his majesty's consent to it. Leave was given, the Petition was brought up, read, and referred to a committee.—On the motion of Col. Stanley, the Report of the Committee of Enquiry in 1792 on the state of the Isle of Man, and all accounts of the revenue of the Island were ordered to be referred to the same committee. It was likewise ordered, on the motion of the hon. Col. that an Address be presented to his majesty, requesting that he would be graciously pleased to cause to be laid before the house a copy of the report of the Privy Council, dated 21 July, 1804, on the former Petition of the Duke of Athol.

MILITIA ENLISTING BILL.
The order of the day being read for the 2d reading of the Militia Enlisting Bill,
Mr. Hughesrose and delivered his maiden speech in parliament. He said he was not in the habit of offering himself to the attention of the house, but the strong call of duty constrained him to overcome his natural reluctance. He admitted the present bill was less objectionable than that which had been adopted in 1799, from the modifications it had received; but as he must resist the principle of it, those variations could not reconcile him to the measure. The bill was brought forward without any ground being laid for its introduction. When the former one was submitted to the attention of the house, a case of remarkable urgency was made out, although not such a case as, in his mind, vindicated the expedient. What was the situation at that time? In the year 1799, we had a prodigious defensive force: the Militia exceeded 100,000 men, and we had a numerous body of Fencibles. On the contrary, the regular army was wasted by a protracted war; and it was under these peculiar circumstances that it was permitted to recruit out of the Fencibles and out of the Militia, under the authority of parliament. In this instance the same scheme was recommended, when

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the motive was gone. We were told by the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the regular army had greatly increased; that the recruiting was active and effectual; and that his favourite act for the, augmentation of the disposeable force, was soon to be brought into complete operation. Why then should we resort to this odious and obnoxious method? If the quota of 17,000 would not enter as volunteers, would the right hon. gent. disband the national Militia? Did he, after all his expressions of doubt and alarm, begin now to consider the garrison of the Country as too strong? Had the fears of the nation been absurd and nugatory? Were the fleets of the enemy destroyed? Were his armies disbanded? Was his ambition annihilated? Did the invasion of this country no longer tempt his appetite for universal dominion? But there were constitutional objections to the measure. Every standing army in Europe, which menaced or destroyed the liberties of the soil by which it was supported, we were told, had its origin in a harmless militia; we ought, then, never to lose sight of that precaution we ought never to abandon that jealousy, which would prevent such dangerous encroachments. The best officers in the militia had been disgusted by the former regulation, and had retired from the service; but it was promised no such plan would be revived. Now insult and flattery were combined, and it was vainly expected gentlemen would submit to such illusions, and patiently bear with repeated mortifications. Whenever the act of 1799 had been mentioned in that house, and it never was mentioned unaccompanied by censure, it had been defended by ministers on the ground of the necessity of the times, and a solemn pledge had been given never to recur to the same mode of proceeding After this open breach of faith, how could we depend on any future pledge? how could we assure ourselves that when it was deemed convenient, government might not once more return to the charge and propose a further recruiting out of the 40,000 that were now allowed to exist? Under all these circumstances he should give his decided negative to the motion.
Mr. Yorkesaid, he was somewhat concerned that several militia officers, comrades of his, had expressed themselves in such strong terms against the bill. He however agreed with those gentlemen, that some of the details were objectionable, yet
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he conceived the general principle wag right, and ought to be adopted. The advantages were so obvious, that they seemed to require no comment: the accession of 15 or 16,000 men to the disposeable force, in these times, could by no gentleman be considered its unimportant. If he were disposed to criticise upon any thing with severity, it would be, that the measure was not before proposed. The bill directed, that the men should be permitted, from the militia regiments, to a certain extent, to enlist in the regular forces. He did think the terms were too general, and that they should not be allowed to enlist into the Foot-Guards, because these were not disposable in the same sense as the troops of the line of every other description. He had no objection to their joining the royal marines, and he thought the artillery ought to have its share. The marines were entitled to great credit. They were at this moment in want of a considerable recruit, and 5 or 6000 men would be to them a very valuable acquisition. Before he could resign the benefits this measure promised, he must be convinced of its impolicy on some constitutional principles; but, perhaps, if he discerned that the militia was likely to suffer any permanent injury from the project, he should, from his affection for it, be constrained to oppose the bill. It was on these constitutional grounds the hon. gent. endeavoured to meet it The term constitutional, it was true, was often used without any regard to its legitimate meaning: it was sometimes employed merely to express the interests of individuals, not the great scheme of national good. What-ever was consistent with the interests of some persons, was to them perfectly, constitutional; whatever opposed these: interests, was the reverse, and from the obscurity consequent on this personal avidity, they often entirely lost sight of the constitution. He by no means intended to apply these observations to the hon. gent.; but he would explain what he understood by the Constitution, as it applied to the present question. It was explained by the common and written law of the land. This law directed every man to stand forward in defence of his country, when called upon by proper, authority; and it was said, that a respectable military force is necessary to the defence of the realm. As to the number or proportion from the militia which, might join the re-

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gular force, there was not a syllable on the subject in the catalogue of English law. So far was he from thinking it was prejudicial, that one should combine occasionally with the other, that he would recommend, that it should be annually proposed to the temporary to unite with the permanent establishment, to a certain limited extent. It might be asked, why he did not suggest this when he had the honour to bear a part in his majesty's councils? The opinion of administration then was, that it was more adviseable to adhere to former plans than to resort to new ones; and such a scheme at that particular moment might have rendered it impossible to have raised the militia to the numbers required. He would broadly contend, the militia could suffer no detriment whatever; the whole was voluntary, and compulsory measures could alone be injurious. But it was said, that the feelings of the militia officers would be wounded. He could only judge of the feelings of other gentlemen by his own; and he acknowledged, that as far as his own comfort and honour were concerned in the regiment he commanded, he should be happy to see that the individuals who composed it, were anxious to offer themselves to a more enlarged service, where their discipline and gallantry would be more beneficial to their country. The scheme in 1799 had been alluded to; that must be acknowledged not only to have been a wise but a prosperous measure. At that time 500 men from the regiment in which he served joined the army, and most of them entered the 20th regiment, which had been peculiarly distinguished for the services they have rendered their country. So much he would say for feeling, and he would add, that any thing that would hurt the generous sensibilities of the officers of the militia, he should himself be the last man to endure. He could not but lament, as much as any one, if officers of merit and courage were to leave the ranks in disgust on account of this bill; but it was what he could not believe they would do, until he had the misfortune to know it from his own observation. He held in his hand a circular letter, signed by 32 field officers of militia regiments, expressive of their disapprobation of the bill before the house. Much as he respected them, he could not help observing, that of this number 18 were distinguished for their opposition to government, and he could not avoid thinking, that if certain arrange-
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ments had taken place which were once expected, if what was called a broad comprehensive administration had been formed, most of these gentlemen would have been of a very different opinion. He trusted, therefore, that as their objections were not purely sentimental, but mixed with political feelings, tho effects produced by the bill would not be so considerable as had been predicted.—He did not think this plan would impose any burthen upon the landed proprietors; he thought, at least, if any were endured, it would be relieved by the provisions of the Additional Force bill, the contents of which, however, he would not affect very accurately to comprehend. One benefit, however, to the counties, was perfectly clear; they would be exonerated from maintaining, the families of those men who abandoned the militia service. On the Additional Force bill he, might be permitted to say, that as far as he understood it, it was unreasonable and impolitic; he thought so before, and he continued in the same sentiment; but the expedient having been resorted to, he judged it prudent to give it a fair trial. But whatever objection he might have to the general tendency of that bill, he had no difficulty in concurring with that part of it which respected the reduction of the militia; not because this force was too great, but because the relative proportions between the temporary and permanent establishments were not duly preserved. The opposition to this bill was the more unaccountable, because parliament had already decided, that the disposable force ought to be increased, and the most easy and natural means was to carry over the surplus of the militia to the regular force. Having advanced various other arguments in favour of the bill, he said, he heartily hoped it would succeed; he should give it the best support he could. He disapproved of that clause which allowed the commanding officer to cut his regiment in halves, and say, government should have one half, while he kept the other. The probability in such case was, the commander of the militia regiment would take the grenadiers and light infantry, and give government the remainder. Possibly the grenadiers and light infantry, impelled by their valour and the desire of gaining renown, might be anxious to join the regulars, in order to go to Paris to pull down the emperor of France and king of Italy. The commanding officer would, by the operation of the

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clause to which he referred, have it in his power to repress their ardour, and forbid their enlisting. He hoped the house would not, by rejecting the measure, run the risk of losing the means of obtaining an honourable and secure peace, and, till its attainment, a sure defence for the kingdom.
Mr. Bastardhad always imagined that parents were ready to spring to the defence of their offspring, when attacked by any danger; but the present instance contradicted his experience on this subject, for although the augmented state of the militia was the child of the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, he seemed to stand up as its most determined enemy, and to be bent on its destruction. The effect of the bill would, he much feared, be to drive men of property and consequence out of the militia service. Should an invasion take place, he had not the slightest doubt that they would cordially unite to fight pro aris et focis, but he was apprehensive that nothing but the actual lauding of an enemy could restore that harmony that was so desirable. For his own part, he confessed he was one of those who would be contented to see the militia remain to defend their homes, and not detached on any such Quixotic expedition as the dethroning of a King of Lombardy. If, for the mighty sum of ten guineas, for the honour and glory of being a private soldier, and for the pleasure of pulling down the King of Lombardy, men would be found willing to quit the officers under whom they had served so long, he owned that, for the credit of his country, he wished such a want of attachment should be exposed as little as possible.
Earl Templesaid, he did not know that he should have been induced to say any thing upon the bill in the present stage of it, had it not been for the speech of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke), who found so strange a method of reconciling duties so very contrary to each other, as those of a secretary at war, and of a militia colonel. The only argument for this bill, namely, that of getting a great accession to the regular army, was used by his right hon. relation (Mr. Pitt), in support of his ineffective Defence bill, which met with the decided opposition of the right hon. gent. When this measure was resorted to in 1799, there was a better ground for it than now, as a distinct object was then stated for its and a pledge given
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that it should not be recurred to any more. Besides, at that time, the militia officers had only the proposition made to them of using their influence with the men to enlist for limited service in Europe, whereas now they were to be induced to enlist for life, and for a smaller bounty than before. He could not account for the motives which could lead the right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke) in time of peace, to augment the militia to 60,000 men; and now, in time of war, and threats of invasion, to vote for their reduction to 40,000. He did not, it seemed, feel any constitutional objection to the measure; but he should have recollected that the militia was raised as a constitutional force, and for the specific object, on the faith of parliament, that they should only be employed at home for the defence of the country, without being under the control, or totally at the disposal of the crown. The militia was quite a separate establishment, and when the crown neglected it, the lords lieutenants of counties were invested, after a certain lapse of time, with the power of appointing officers. It was not raised at the expence of the crown, and was always paid by land-owners and farmers, who were at the expence of providing substitutes. It was in vain to say, that the men by this measure had the option of enlisting or remaining, as they might think proper; because, every one knew that if their companions volunteered, those who refused to do the same would be looked upon as wanting in military spirit. It was, indeed, voluntary in the name, but, in fact, it was the contrary. He was one of those oppositionists, who, as a militia colonel, signed the circular paper alluded to by the right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke); but as he was drawn into the serape by the example of his right hon. relation oh a former occasion, and he hoped, that gentleman would not refuse to take his share in the blame of it. In saying, that if an administration had been formed on a broad and comprehensive scale, the same measure would have been pursued, and no objection made to it, the right hon. gent. only assumed a fact, which he did not allow him entitled to do.
The Marquis of Douglasconceived the bill to be unjust in its principle, and injurious in its operation. The right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke) had said it was not unconstitutional; he did not contend it was so, but as far as respected the constitution of the

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militia. The right hon. gent. had talked much about the delicacy of his feelings; but he seemed destitute of all sensibility; his military apostacy was only equalled by his ministerial apostacy.—Here Mr. Yorke, to order, represented the impropriety of using such language. The Speaker informed the noble lord that he should abstain from personalities.
The Marquis of Douglassaid, he bowed with great deference to the authority of the chair. He then proceeded to state that the militia officers did not so much object to this measure, from feeling, as upon the constitutional ground, that by proposing this measure to them, they would be defrauding them into an acceptance of what they had no reason to expect. He himself, though by no means divested of the feelings of a militia colonel, objected to it principally from its dying injustice to the proprietors and occupiers of the land, who would by this bill be obliged to pay a second bounty for substitutes. It was fallacious to say, that all persons paid equally, and in proportion, for the army and navy. The members of the universities, and many other descriptions, were exempted from the operation of the ballots. Part also of the pay of militia men was appropriated to the maintenance of their families; but when they should enlist into the regulars, the support of their wives and children would fall upon the parishes. As Scotchman, he said, he had no complain that the country was put to the expence of providing for 12,000 men; there were no more than 6,000 left for its defence; and none of the regulars stationed there, for their domestic protection. He heard a report, that the noble lord (Moira) who had the chief military command there had lately resigned it, finding that all those exertions of his Which had gained him the confidence, respect, and veneration of all parts and ranks in that country, were not Sufficient to supply the military deficiencies. He must also object to the measure upon the ground of policy, when the alarm of invasion had not yet subsided. What chance had we of co-operating in any continental war, when we were destitute of a single ally? In his majesty's speech from the throne, the word ally was not even mentioned, we only ventured to speak of "confidential negociations" with foreign courts, but effect was yet produced from it, nor did he hear of a single movement in our favour. He denied that it was
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the wish or disposition of the militia soldiers to volunteer in the regulars, or to part from the officers who now commanded them. His lordship concluded by saying that he spoke under the protection of that principle Which sanctioned every man in advancing what he thought was the good of his country, and particularly at a time when its councils stood so much in need of uncommon integrity and equity.
Lord Stanleyrose to make some remarks on what had fallen from a former secretary at war (Mr. Yorke), and on the inconsistency of his conduct, in the part he had taken in the present measure. He did not know how to reconcile the conduct of the right hon. gent. in approving of the present measure for the reduction of the militia, after having himself introduced a bill for augmenting that constitutional species of the national force. The noble lord defended himself, and those who opposed the present measure, from the, observations of the right hon. gent. that if what he called a broad-bottomed administration had been formed, those who voted against the present bill would have given their ready concurrence to the measure now proposed. He then entered at considerable length into a discussion of the consequences of this bill, which he characterized as unconstitutional and unjust. Be said, it was an attempt to increase the regular army, without ascertaining the expence. It seemed to be the object of the right. hon. gent. to create a large force, without being much concerned about the means he made use of to accomplish it.
Lord Eustonapproved of the measure. The principle was that of the bill for the gradual reduction of the militia. He was one who thought that reduction necessary when proposed last session by his right hon. friend (M r. Pitt); for he felt then, and did still feel, that there were not sufficient officers for the militia, as it stood at the increased number of 68,000. He was a militia officer himself, and should do every thing in his power to forward the objects of the measure before the house.
The Chancellor of the Exchequerobserved that he had been anxious to hear the sentiments of such gentlemen as chose to come forward on this occasion before he troubled the house with any remarks of his own. He was happy to have the concurrence of his noble friend who had just sat

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down, whose attachment to the militia was well known. This approbation removed part of the regret which he had felt, because he was obliged to differ so materially from many gentlemen connected with the militia. The arguments which he heard from the other side this night were much the same as those which had been urged on a former occasion, and therefore he should not think it necessary to trouble the house at any great length. One observation he had heard with considerable surprise, and that was, that no ground had been laid for such a measure as this. The gentlemen seemed to have forgot the whole of the discussions that had taken place during this session on the state of the Army. They said that he, and those who agreed with him, had asserted, that there was no want of any increase for the army. He was in the hearing of the house, and appealed to it whether such a thing had ever been said. It had been said, certainly, that there were sufficient reasons for continuing the operations of the Defence bill for some time longer, but it had never been asserted that its efficacy was so much to be depended upon, that nothing else would be necessary. But while they thus perverted what had been said on his side, they seemed to have totally forgot what they said themselves; and, notwithstanding their clamours respecting the deficiencies of the army, they now wished to consider it as a conceded point, that no augmentation was necessary. But if there was any thing on which all parties were fully agreed, it was that the army certainly did want an augmentation; and the only difference was, respecting the means which it would be proper to purpose of effecting that augmentation. But then it was contended by a noble relation of his (lord Temple) that a distinct object was necessary before any Measure of this sort could be justified. Could it be seriously asserted that it was necessary that an expedition, like that to Holland, should be laid as the ground for this? The argument was so extraordinary that it would be wasting the time of the house to enter upon it. Yet this alone, with the exception of one, was the serious objection. That other one was the inconsistency that appeared in the conduct of the right hon. gent. (Mr. Yorke) who with so much ability, had spoke in favour of the measure. What was this inconsistency? The difference was not with regard to the object,
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but with regard too the means by which the object was to be attained. The right hon. gent. had disapproved of one Method, but was that any reason why he should disapprove of another? Yet this was the whole inconsistency. It might as well be argued that a right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Windham) was inconsistent opposing this measure, though there the inconsistency was still stronger, for this measure actually adopted that very thing which was the only one like a system thrown out in the course of his speech, on a former occasion, by that right hon. gent. namely, the reduction of the militia. Then again, it was said that there was something unjust and unconstitutional in this bill. As to the constitutional part of it, this objection had been fully answered by the right hon. gent. on the same bench with him (Mr. Yorke), and the only attempt at a reply to him, merely went to confirm his statement. But then it was said, that this interfered with a pledge given by parliament, and that it was unjust to the officers of the militia, who had raised a certain number of men who were to be tied down on the defence of the country. Now his answer to that was that this would have been a most extraordinary pledge if it ever had been given by parliament, which consisted in chaining down such a number of men, so that they could not be called upon in any case of emergency. But the fact was, that the act fixed the militia to the smaller number during peace, and only empowered his majesty to call out the remainder in case of war. No pledge whatever had been given on the subject, nor could it be given, so as to be binding in all circumstances. The object was, to enable the surplus of the militia to form a better defence to the country, by being more disposable than if they had been confined to our own shores. The next objection was, the injustice done to the person who procured a substitute. All that would happen by the extension of the service would be, that the substitute would be enabled to render a more effectual service to the state. The country gained something by this but where the loss to the individual was, he was utterly unable to conceive. But then there must be a ballot for more. The only immediate effect would be, that the vacancies in the reduced number must be immediately made up, and this certainly would not be so extensive as to come often upon the same

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persons who had already procured substitutes. There was, on the contrary, an advantage in the reduction to the persons who were exposed to the ballot, because the casualties in 40,000 would be much mose easily filled up than if the whole number of the militia had been kept on foot. Then as to the injury to be apprehended to discipline and subordination, it was not to be denied that every measure should be taken to prevent such a mischief. The recruiting officers should he kept at as great a distance as possible. He allowed that while the measure was pending, the officers and men in the regular service would present temptations, but so far from countenancing such applications, no instructions had been sent to the regular regiments to invite the militia to volunteer. One application had been made for permission to hold out such invitations, but it had been peremptorily refused. He Would. venture to say further, that every thing that could be done by the military department of his majesty's govt. to prevent the irregularities apprehended, would be done. It was to be recollected, that if four-fifths of the quota were ready at the time, no further demand was to be made; and that every thing had been done, and would be done, on his part, to reader the measure as palateable as possible. The particular provisions may be modified in the committee; and the setting apart one half for the foundation of the reduced regiment, was a security against deterioration. As to permitting the marines to recruit from this source, he doubted the propriety of it. As to the artillery, it was to be permitted to them. As to the guards, it was not determined, whether they should; if they were, it should not be to any extent, and with a limit as to size; but he doubted altogether, whether it would be right to open this channel of recruiting to them. The measures taken for the gradual augmentation of the regulars had not had all the effect that could be desired or that was expected from thenee, but they afforded a constant and continued supply to a considerable amount. On this ground it was desirable for the public to adopt the means of augmentation now proposed, with a view to give the utmost effect to any favourable circumstances that may arise.
Mr. Windhamsaid, it was not to be supposed he had any objection to the increase of the troops of the line. That was an ob-
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ject so much in conformity with all the sentiments he had maintained, and so directly in opposition to all those that had been supported by the right hon. gent. who moved this measure, that it was not likely he should oppose him in it. The right hon. gent. was now employed in taking down a part of the building which he had been so long employed in erecting. He applauded the workman and be applauded the work. It was a satisfaction to find that the right hon. gent. was so good-naturedly disposed to correct every thing erroneous he might have formerly established. Considering the length of time the right hon. gent. had formerly been in power, considering he was now in power again, and that many wished him to remain in power, it would be to be lamented indeed if he adhered to every error he had fallen into. The right hon. gent. had completely relieved the house from that apprehension, for a more formal, distinct, and pointed recantation of his former principles and practice could not possibly be exhibited. It was certainly a departure from his former system only in part, for with a happy variety, it contained in it what, in the sporting, language was called "a hedge," the effect of which was, that there was a chance the right hon. gent. would at all events win. Here the hon. gent. adverted to the extent to which the militia system had been from time to time carried. The English militia was increased by the addition of the supplementary; then the Scotch militia was added, and afterwards the Irish. The building was elevated by heaping Pelion upon Ossa, story on story, till it was impossible to go further. The right hon. gent was at that time in the militia line, he afterwards opened shop for the abolition of the ballot; He had, however, stuck to the old trade till it failed; he kept close to the ballot till its death, and he cried out its last speech in the introduction of his parish bill—this parish beauty, in coarse russet clad; of whom he was so violently enamoured. The ballot had not been given up till late. It had been given up, however; it was found that it increased the bounty, and that, by it means, men were not to be had for general service. Then the right hon. gent. set out with a general declamation against the ballot, which he at length found out was very injurious to the service. The abolition of the ballot was one step towards that negative system, which he and his

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hon. friends had recommended. When being asked for their plan, they said it consisted merely in getting rid of all the impediments that checked the simple recruiting. TO remove an evil was certainly the first step towards effecting good; but the right hon. gent.'s change had not this effect. Two negatives, it was said, made an affirmative; but the right hon. gent.'s second proceeding was but a further departure from his former principles and practice. His parish bill went to abolish the ballot, or at least to remove it to a considerable distance. But if that took it away, this measure gave it back. Because the parish bill removed it to too great a distance, this brought it near, so as to enable him more easily to come at it. These observations, he confessed, went more to the author of the measure, than to the measure itself; but though measures were to be judged of in themselves, yet a part of their credit was connected with the personal character of those from whom they proceeded, and therefore what he had said on this head was not improper nor irrelevant. The right hon. gent. had argued, that he and those who were of opinion with him that the regular force was too small, and the Militia too large, ought to support this measure. Certainly, it would not be inconsistent in them to support it, but they were not therefore necessarily to do so. Though they argued that the militia should be reduced, and the regular army augmented, they were not therefore bound to approve all means whatsoever proposed for carrying those objects into effect. His objection to this measure was, that it did not produce advantage to the regulars in proportion as it did injury to the militia. The only difference was, that the number of men transferred would be applied to more advantageous service. He allowed the service was more advantageous; but it was not trained men that the army wanted, and he put it to the regular officers, whether they would not prefer unexercised men to those disciplined militia, who would never make good troops. He did not say that the militia were not in every respect equal to the regulars in training; in many instances they were accustomed to equally severe discipline, but from the nature of the service there was always something hanging about a militia-man which rendered him more untractable than was consistent with the well-being of the regular service. He did not mean in
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this to argue that should ever be taken from the militia to the line, but never without great emergency.—Another objection was much more extensive, and was founded on a remark which he had formerly made, that measures ought to be adopted wholly and not partially, as in the present instance, because the success often depended on the union of the several parts. In the plan which he had formerly proposed, the right hon. gent. seemed to have forgot that he had included service for a limited term of years, and the improvement of the condition of the soldiers. If this were adopted, people would flock to the army like bees, as long as you had a hive to receive them. He allowed that, if necessity required, he himself would be ready to take stronger steps with respect to time militia than the present, and he considered the mitigations allowed by the right hon. gent. as the most convincing proofs that the necessity of the measure was not felt.—He regarded these expedients so frequently varied, as the ruinous resources of a spendthrift prodigal, who, to supply the want of the moment, cuts down the young timber of his estate, which in a little time would be double its present value. Those ministers who had reproached their predecessors with inefficiency, had found that they could not get through their own measures for six months. The shifts resorted to front day to day, by them, was an argument for the committee he had had the honour on a late occasion to propose. He did not believe this measure was in contemplation when the parish bill was introduced, which was a proof, that the system of ministers was temporary and unstable. Thus the parish bill, which was to produce 27,000 men, of which 9000 were to be allowed to go into the regulars every year, and to be supplied again from the country, had produced about 2000, which was nearly the same proportion a tailor bore to a man. Thus, instead of the full grown man that had been promised, the country must now content itself with this miserable tailor's apprentice. The house was in fact reduced to subsist upon its votes, as a noble lord had very properly expressed it on a former occasion. The house had voted the measure of last session, in the hope that it would produce recruits for the army to a great amount. The hope had failed. Now this measure was called for with similar promises, and it was unknown what

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other equally infallible expedient was in reserve, if the promised hope should not be fulfilled. The measure now proposed would be attended with great inconvenience, and the officers of the militia were averse to it. He took occasion to revert to the irritation with which his hints at the propriety of reducing the militia had been formerly received. He then admonished the friends of that system, that they had less to apprehend from those who openly attacked them, than from those who afforded them a treacherous defence. (see vol. 3. p 606). There was a Spanish proverb, which said, "protect me from my friends, and I will guard myself against my enemies." This applied well to the militia in the present instance. The right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. Yorke) had argued forcibly in support of his own sentiment on this occasion, but he allowed he had but few of his brother officers of militia with him. The question was not which opinion was right, but which opinion prevailed; not what they ought to feel, but what they do feel. When the right hon. gent. said, that 18 out of 32 militia colonels, who signed the resolutions against this measure, were actuated by party principles of opposition to ministers, he surely did not see the effect of this position; for if so large a portion of the aristocracy of the country, the runk, the landed property, and influence, were to be seized upon a distinct question of this kind, to convey their decided disapprobation of the ministers of the time, it was a pretty clear proof of the sense the best part of the country entertained of these ministers. The generality of the feeling, however, let what may be the cause of it, afforded no argument for the success of the measure. The country, notwithstanding the extraordinary success of all the measures recommended from the other side, was still extremely at it loss for a disposable force; this, with the expectation of possible circumstances in Europe to afford room for employing this force, were the reasons for resorting to that which the govt. was pledged not to recur to, except in cases of extreme necessity. The repetition of this measure went totally to change the militia from its original constitution, to destroy the principle connection, and thus to do a vast injury to the home service, without having any thing like a permanent good effect on the army. This measure could not be made a part of a general system for recruiting the
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army. It was a measure of such a nature, that we could not long go on in it, but should soon come to a total stop. Our military system should be so constructed that its parts would correspond with and assist each other. The consequence of doing this thing in this case was, that one part of the existing system acted in one direction and another in the opposite. Then there was a sort of compromise, and such a compromise was most ruinous to any thing like a general system. For all these reasons, and tor many others, which he could adduce, he thought himself perfectly consistent in opposing this bill.—The question being called for, the house divided—

For the second reading

148

Against it

59

Majority

89

The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday.—Adjourned.

MINUTES.
Their lordships proceeded further in the Appeal, Rocheid, esq. against Kinloch, bart. Mr. H. Erskine concluded his reply. After which the further consideration was postponed till Tuesday next.—Mr. Alexander brought up the Legacy Duty bill, and two private bills; which were severally read a first time.—Mr. Worsley, from the London Flour Company, presented the annual accounts of the Company; which were ordered to lie on the table.—Adjourned.