Sitting of 4 July 1805

MINUTES.
Counsel and evidence were heard on Moore's and Gardner's Divorce bills, by which the marriages and adultery were proved, as also the Judgments obtained in the Court of King's Bench; but no order was made upon them.—A message from the lords announced that they had agreed to the three Exchequer Bills bill, the Isle of Man bill, and several private bills.—The Irish Revenue Regulation bill was reported,

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and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.—Mr. Huskisson moved, that a message be sent to the lords, to acquaint them that their request to communicate the reasons and evidence on which a sum of money was voted in compensation to the duke of Atholl, was contrary to the practice of. parliament, and that the house deems that a sufficient answer to their message; which was agreed to, and Mr. Alexander ordered to carry up this answer.—The Pilots' Regulation bill was committed, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow; as was also the Southern Whale Fishery bill.—The Paddington Coal, the Scotch Assessed Taxes, and the Consolidated Fund bills, were read a third time and passed.—The Irish Duty Collection bill, the Irish Distillery, and the Irish Military Survey bills, were reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

STIPENDIARY CURATES' BILL.
The Attorney-General moved, that the Lords Amendments to the Stipendiary Curates' bill be now taken into consideration; which being agreed to, when the Speaker came to that which altered the quantum of money, he reminded them that it was of such a nature that the house could not, consistently with its peculiar privileges, concur in.—On the motion of the Attorney-General, the further consideration of the bill was therefore postponed to this day three months. He then said, that as the session was so near its close, and as his motion might be productive of some discussion, he should defer bringing it forward till early in the next session.

IMPEACHMENT OF LORD MELVILLE.
Mr. Whitbread brought up the report of the committee appointed to inspect the Lords' Journals in respect to their proceedings on the charges adduced against lord viscount Melville; which was ordered to lie on the tables.—The hon. gent. next brought up the report of the committee appointed to draw up the Articles of Impeachment voted by the house against lord viscount Melville; which being shor y read, pro forma, he stared, that when he moved a resolution in the house, that the noble lord should be impeached, he was prepared with the articles which he proposed. He then considered the balances lost, in the case of Mr. Jellicoe, to be of serious importance; but as that opinion did not seem to meet with the general concurrence of the house, the committee had thought proper to limit it. The charges, which he first intended to confine to three heads, now consisted of Eight Articles, in which there was only one which was absolutely new, and not included in their former resolutions.
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At the time Mr. Trotter was appointed Paymaster of the Navy, it appeared that viscount Melville Was in possession of a balance of 10,000l. which had not since been satisfactorily accounted for. There was another charge, arising out of the admission of viscount Melville on the floor of that house, when he was making his defence, that he had been possessed of 10,000l. navy money, the application of which he declared that he never would disclose to any human being. The committee, therefore, agreed to make that the ground of a specific article. Besides these, there were the sums of 22,000l. advanced to viscount Melville, without interest; 22,000l. also, for which it appeared that interest had been paid; and from 10,000l. to 20,000l. which went to what was called between them "the mixed account," and which, hitherto, was altogether inexplicable. He thought it right that this explanation should, in the event, be given to the house; and moved, in the first place, "that the report do lie on the table, and be printed for the use of the house;" which being agreed to, he moved, in order to give gentlemen time to examine the Articles of Charge after their being printed, "that the Report be taken into consideration on Monday next."—Ordered.
The following is a copy of the said Articles of Impeachment.

REPORT FROM A COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO DRAW UP ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST HENRY LORD VISCOUNT MELVILLE.
The Committee appointed to draw up Articles of Impeachment againt Henry Lord Viscount Melville, have, pursuant to the Order of the House, prepared several Articles accordingly: which Articles are as follow, viz.
Articles exhibited by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, in Parliament assembled, in the name of themselves and of all the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, against Henry Lord Viscount Melville, in maintenance of their Impeachment against him for High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Whereas the office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy is an office of high trust and confidence; in the faithful and uncorrupt execution whereof, the subjects of this kingdom are most deeply interested: And whereas the ancient constitution of the said office of Treasurer of the Navy, and of other offices concerned in the receipt, disbursement, and controul of the Public Money, having been found to be highly inexpedient in con-

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sequence of the increased expenditure of the country did become the subject of frequent long and serious deliberation in Parliament; And whereas by an Act of Parliament made and passed in the 20th year of the reign of His present Majesty, and by several subsequent Acts of Parliament, for appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine, take, and state the Public Accounts of this Kingdom, and for other purposes therein mentioned, certain Commissioners were constituted and appointed for examining, taking, and stating the accounts therein particularly mentioned, and also for examining and stating in what manner, and at what times, the receipts, issues, and expenditures of the public monies were accounted for; and for considering of and reporting by what means and methods the public accounts might in future be passed, and the Accomptants compelled to pay the balances or monies due from them in a more expeditious, more effectual, and less expensive manner: And whereas the said Commissioners did inquire into and report upon the Public Accounts by the said Acts referred to their examination, and did discover and point our various abuses in many of the Public Offices entrusted with the receipt and expenditure of Public Money, and in particular in the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy; and did propose and recommend sundry good and wholesome provisions and regulations for the reformation of the same, and particularly for preventing the Public Money issued for navy services from coming into the possession and custody of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, or the officers or persons employed under him; for depriving him and them of all opportunity of using and misapplying the Public Money to private purposes, and thereby exposing the same to the risk of loss; for making the Bank of England the sole place of deposit for the same; for removing, from thenceforward, all temptations and inducements to applications for more public money than was necessary for the public service; for preventing all unnecessary delay in passing the public accounts of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, and in restoring to the public the balances remaining in his hands: And whereas the House of Commons having taken the Reports of the said Commissioners into consideration upon the 19th day of June, 1782, did (among other things) resolve, that some regulations ought to be adopted for the purpose of lessening and keeping down the balances which appeared to have usually been in the hands of the
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Treasurer of the Navy; and did further declare their opinion, that from thenceforward the Paymaster General of His Majesty's Land Forces, and the Treasurer of the Navy for the time being, should not apply any sum or sums of money imprested to them or either of them, to any purpose of advantage or interest to themselves, either directly or indirectly.
And whereas, for the more effectually carrying into execution the said Resolutions of the House of Commons, His Majesty, by warrant under His Royal Sign Manual, bearing date the 22d day of June, 1782, was most graciously pleased to augment the income of the Right Honourable Isaac Barrè, as Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, and to add thereto the sum of 2,150l. that the said income might in future amount to 4,000l. which His Majesty was then graciously pleased to grant to the said Isaac Barré, clear of all deductions, in full satisfaction of all wages and fees and other profits and emoluments theretofore enjoyed by former Treasurers of His Majesty's Navy: And whereas by Letters Patent bearing date the 19th day of August, 1782, His Majesty was graciously pleased to give and grant unto the Right Honourable Henry Dundas, now Lord Viscount Melville, the Office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy Royal and Ships, and Receiver General of all sums of money appointed, or from time to time to be appointed, and payable for the support, maintenance, and reparation of His Majesty's Navy Royal and Ships; for emptions and provisions appertaining to, and necessary for the said navy and ships, and for wages, salaries of officers, servants, and other persons whatever, belonging to the said Navy or Ships, or any other matter or thing whatsoever in any manner touching or concerning the Navy Royal or Ships; and for the exercise and occupation of the said Office, and for and in satisfaction of all wages and fees of three pence,of lawful money for every pound to be received and paid by the said Henry Dundas, by virtue of his said office, His Majesty was further graciously pleased to give and grant unto him by the said Letters Patent, an annuity or yearly payment of 2,200l.
And whereas the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville represented, or caused to be represented, or it was represented to His Majesty, that the said annuity or yearly payment of 2,000l. after deducting all charges, taxes, and expences thereon, would not produce to him the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville

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more than the sum of 1,850l. in each year, or thereabouts; whereupon His Majesty, by warrant under His Royal Sign Manual, bearing dare the 23d day of October, 1782, was graciously pleased to declare that the income of the Treasurer of the Navy should be augmented with an additional allowance of 2,324l. 6s. 6d, in order to make together with the said sum of 1,850l. the said income to amount in future to the sum of 4,000l. And His Majesty did thereby direct, authorize, and empower the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville to take and apply out of such monies as were in, or should come to his hands, or to the hands of his Cashier, arisen, or to arise by the sale of Old Naval Stores, the said sum of 2,324l. 6s. 6d. which, together with the before mentioned sum of 1,850l. would make the said sum of 4,000l. which His Majesty was graciously pleased to grant him, clear of all deductions, in full satisfaction of all wages and fees, and other profits and emoluments theretofore enjoyed by former Treasurers of the Navy; the same to commence and be computed from the day of the date of the said letters patent, and to continue during his continuance in the said office: And His Majesty did further direct, authorize, and empower the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, in case the said additional allowance of 2,324l. 6s. 6d. together with the said several allowances before stated, should not produce in each year the net sum of 4,000l, to charge the deficiency in the annual amount of monies disbursed by him for fees of divers natures: And whereas the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, under the said Letters Patent, from the said 19th day of August, 1782, until the 10th day of April, 1783:
And whereas by Letters Patent, bearing date the 5th day of January, 1784, His Majesty was graciously pleased again to give and grant unto the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, in the same terms as in the said former Letters Patent of the 19th day of August, 1782; and upon a similar representation made or caused to be made by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, or otherwise made to His Majesty as that hereinbefore stated, His Majesty Was graciously pleased, by warrant under His Royal Sign Manual, bearing date the 16th day of January, 1784, to augment the income of the said office of Treasurer of the Navy with an additional allowance of 2,324l. 6s. 6d. in order to make the annual income of the said office
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amount to the said sum of 4,000l. and which said income His Majesty was thereby graciously pleased to grant to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, clear of all deductions, in full satisfaction of all wages and fees, and other profits and emoluments theretofore enjoyed by former Treasurers of the Navy, and to secure and provide for the due payment thereof in like manner as in the said former warrant of the 23d day of October, 1782, is provided:
And whereas the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, under and by virtue of the said last-mentioned Letters Patent, held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, from the said 5th day of Jan. 1784, until the 31st day of May,1800:
And whereas on the 17th day of February, 1785, the House of Commons ordered that leave should be given to bring in a bill for better regulating the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, and that (together with other Members of the said House of Commons) Mr. Henry Dundas, now Lord Viscount Melville, should prepare and bring in the same; and, in pursuance of the said order, the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, on the 29th clay of April, 1785, did present to the House of Commons a Bill for better regulating the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy; and the said Bill having passed the House of Commons, was, in pursuance of an order of that House carried by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville to the House of Lords; to which Bill he (in the name of the House of Commons) desired the concurrence of their Lordships:
And whereas the said Bill, in the 25th year of His Majesty's reign passed into a law, intituled "An Act for better regulating the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy;"—The 1st, 3d, 4th and 5th Sections whereof are as follows:
1st Section, "Whereas it appears by the Reports made by the Commissioners appointed to examine, take, and state the public accounts of the kingdom, that regulations are necessary for better conducting the business in the department of the Treasurer of the Navy: Be it therefore enacted by the King's Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, that from and after the first day of July 1785, the Treasurer of his Majesty's Navy for the time being, in all Memorials to be by him presented to the Treasury for Money for Navy Services, shall

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pray that such sum as he requires may be issued to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England on his account, and shall transmit with each Memorial a Copy of the Letter or Letters from the Commissioners of the Navy, Victualling, and Sick and Hurt Boards, directing him to apply for such sum or sums; in which letter or letters the said Commissioners shall, and they are hereby required and directed to specify for what particular service or services the said money is wanted, and shall also state the balances then in the hands of the Treasurer of the Navy under each head of service respectively; and the Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury for the time being, by their letter from time to time, shall direct the Auditor of the Exchequer to issue to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, on account of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, naming such Treasurer for the time being, the sum for which such letter shall be drawn upon the unsatisfied order at the Exchequer, in favour of the said Treasurer, for which the receipt of the Cashier or Cashiers of the said Governor and Company shall be a sufficient discharge; and all sums for which letters of the Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury shall be drawn, shall be issued to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England in like manner as they have been heretofore issued to the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy; and all such monies to be issued to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England shall be placed on an account or accounts to be raised in the books of the Governor and Company of the said Bank of England, and to be intituled, 'The Account of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy,' inserting the name of such Treasurer for the time being, for the paybranch, cashier's branch, and the victuallingbranch; and on receipt of all such monies at the Exchequer, the Treasurer of the Navy shall immediately certify to the Commissioners of the Navy an account of the whole receipt under the respective heads of service, and shall also certify to the Commissioners of the Victualling and Sick and Hurt Boards, the particular sums received and applicable to those services respectively."
3d Section.—"And be it further enacted, that from and after the 1st day of July, 1785, no money for the service of the Navy shall be issued from His Majesty's Exchequer to the Treasurer of the Navy, or shall be placed or directed to be placed in his hands or possession; but the same shall be issued and directed to be paid to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, and to
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be placed to the accounts above-mentioned, according to the services for which it is craved and issued."
4th. Section.—"And be it enacted, that the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy for the time being, by himself, or the person or persons in his office duly authorized by the said Treasurer, from and after the first day of July, 1785, shall draw upon the Governor and Company of the Bank of England for all Navy services whatever, and shall specify in each and every draft the head of service for which the same is drawn; and no draft, of the said Treasurer, or the person or persons authorized as aforesaid, shall be deemed a sufficient voucher to the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England, unless the same specifies the head of service for which it is drawn, and has been actually paid by the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England."
5th Section.—"Provided always, that the monies to be issued unto the Governor and. Company of the Bank of England, on account of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, shall not be paid out of the Bank unless for Navy Services, and in pursuance of drafts to be drawn on the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, and signed by the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy for the time being, or the person or persons authorized as aforesaid; in which drafts shall be specified the heads of service to which the sums therein mentioned are to be applied; and which drafts so drawn shall be sufficient authority to the Bank to pay such money to the persons mentioned in such drafts, or to the bearer of them."
And whereas the provisions contained in the said last-mentioned Act of Parliament, were thereby directed to take place on the 1st day of July, 1785: But the execution of the said Act, with respect to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, opening an account or accounts with the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, as thereby directed, was postponed by him until the 13th Day of January, 1786, when the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville opened an account with the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, intituled, Right Hon. Henry Dundas, Act of Parliament New Account;" and which said account was continued by him until he quitted the said office on the 31st of May, 1800, and was the only account kept by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melvilleas Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy with the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, under and in pursuance of the said Act of Parliament for regulating his said office.
And whereas on the 10th day of January, 1786, whilst the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, he did constitute and appoint Alexander Trotter his Paymaster; and the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did, on the said 10th day of January 1786, duly authorize and empower the said Alexander Trotter to draw on the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, for and upon the account of him the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, all and every sum or sums of money that then were or should thereafter be wanted for the Public Services, under the care of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, the said Alexander Trotter being particularly careful to specify in each and every draft the service for which the money should be drawn.
And whereas it was the duty of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, during all the time he held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, to abstain from applying himself, and to prevent all persons acting under him from applying, any part of the money issued from His Majesty's Exchequer for Navy Services to any purposes of advantage or interest to himself or themselves, either directly or indirectly, or to any other purposes than for Naval Services, and from deriving any profit or emolument therefrom: and from and after the passing of the said act of parliament of the 25th year of His Majesty's reign, for better regulating the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, it was the duty of the said Lord Viscount Melville to observe and pursue the provisions and directions of the said act of parliament; yet the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, not satisfied with the ample revenue so provided for him as aforesaid, nor regarding the duty of his high and important office, or the express provisions of the said act of parliament, did, whilst he so held and enjoyed the said office, act and conduct himself fraudulently, corruptly, and illegally, in the several instances herein set forth.
FIRST ARTICLE.—That the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, whilst he held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, and previous to the said 10th day of January 1786, did take and receive from and out of the money imprested to him as Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, from His Majesty's Exchequer, the sum of 10,000l. or some other large sum or sums of money, and did fraudulently and illegally convert and apply the same to his own use,
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or to some other corrupt and illegal purposes, and to other purposes than those of the Public Navy Services of the kingdom, to which alone the same was lawfully applicable; and did continue such fraudulent and illegal conversion and application of the said sum or sums of money after the passing of the said act of parliament for the better regulating the office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy. And the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville has declared that he never would reveal the application of the said sum of 10,000l. and in particular he did make such declaration in the House of Commons, on the 11th day of June, 1805; and then and there added, that be felt himself bound by motives of public duty, as well as private honour and personal convenience, to conceal the same; all which conduct of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville was contrary to the duty of his said office, a breach of the high trust reposed in him, and a violation of the laws and statutes of this realm.
SECOND ARTICLE.—That the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, disregarding the duties of his said office, and in breach and violation of the said act of parliament for better regulating the same, did, after the passing of the said act, and whilst the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville continued to hold and enjoy the said office, connive at, and permit and suffer the said Alexander Trotter, under and by virtue of the said authority so given to him by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, illegally to draw, receive, and take from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, for other purposes than for immediate application to Navy Services, large sums of money from and out of the monies before then issued unto the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England, on account of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, as Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy: and the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did connive at, and permit and suffer the said Alexander Trotter to place the said last-mentioned sums of money, or a great part thereof, so illegally drawn, received, and taken by him from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England as aforesaid, in the hands of Messrs. Thomas Coutts and Company, the private bankers of the said Alexander Trotter, in his own name, and subject to his sole controul and disposition: all which conduct of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville was contrary to the duty of his said office, a breach of the high trust reposed in him, and a violation of the laws and statutes of the realm.
THIRD ARTICLE.—That after the passing

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of the said act of parliament for better regulating the Office of the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, and after the said 10th day of January 1786, and whilst the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office, large sums of money were, from time to time, issued and paid to the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, and placed on an account raised in the bo ks of the said Governor and Company with the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, intituled, "Right Hon. Henry Dundas, Act of Parliament New Account:" And the said Alexander Trotter, under and by virtue of the said authority from the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, did, from the said 10th day of January 1786, during all the time the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville afterwards continued to hold and enjoy the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, draw upon the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England for and on account of the monies so issued and paid to them and placed to the said account so raised in their books, with the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, as such Treasurer as aforesaid: and the said Alexander Trotter did receive and take large sums of money so drawn by him from the said Governor and Company of the Bank of England as aforesaid:
That the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did, after the said 10th day of January 1786, fraudulently and illegally permit and fuffer the said Alexander Trotter to place many of the said sums of money so drawn, received, and taken by him from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England as aforesaid, in the hands of Messrs. Thomas Coutts and Company, the private bankers of the said Alexander Trotter, in his own name and at his own disposal: and the said Alexander Trotter did thereupon, with the privity, by the connivance, and with the permission of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, apply and use the said last-mentioned sums of money, or great part thereof, for purposes of private advantage or interest, profit and emolument; and did place the said sums of money, or a great part thereof, in the hands of the said Messrs. Coutts and Company, mixed with and undistinguished from the proper monies of the said Alexander Trotter, whereby the said last-mentioned sums of money were not only applied to and used for purposes of private advantage or interest, profit and emolument, and for purposes other than Navy Services, but were also exposed to great risk of loss, and were withdrawn from the controul and disposition of
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the Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy: and the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, by so conniving at and permitting and suffering the public money to be withdrawn from the Bank of England, and used and applied in manner aforesaid, acted in breach of the great trust and confidence reposed in him in violation of the said act of parliament made for regulating his said office, contrary to his duty, and against the laws of this realm, and to the evil example of all persons entrusted in the great departments of the public service, with controul over the application and expenditure of the public money.
FOURTH ARTICLE.—That after the said 10th day of January 1786, and whilst the said. Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, be the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did fraudulently and illegally, for the purpose of advantage or interest to himself, or for acquiring or obtaining profit or emolument therefrom, or for some other corrupt and illegal purposes, and for purposes other than Navy services, take and receive from the Public money placed in his name at the Bank of England, as Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy, the sum of 10,000l. or some other large sum or sums of money, and did fraudulently and illegally convert and apply the same to his own use, or to some other corrupt and illegal purposes:
That during the time the said Alexander Trotter held and enjoyed the said office of Paymaster to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, and whilst the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy as aforesaid, he the said Alexander Trotter kept with the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville an account current, entered in certain books of account, containing entries of all the sums paid and received by the said Alexander Trotter on the account of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, and by agreement between the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville and the said Alexander Trotter, bearing date the 18th and 23d days of February 1803, it is stated that they had either mutually delivered up to each other, or resolved and agreed mutually to cancel or destroy, all the vouchers or other memorandums and writings that at any time theretofore might have existed, passed, or been interchanged between them relative to the said accounts, and the different items and articles of which the said accounts were composed or consisted: and the said books of account containing the said account current, together with all vouchers or other memorandums and

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writings in the possession of the said Alexander Trotter, and also of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville relative thereto, were burnt and destroyed by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville and Alexander Trotter: and the said stipulation contained in the said agreement for the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville and Alexander Trotter mutually delivering up to each other, or for mutually cancelling and destroying all the said vouchers or other memorandums or writings relative to the said account, was so entered into; and the said books of accounts, vouchers, memorandums, and writings, were so burnt and destroyed, with a view to conceal and prevent the discovery of the several advances of money made by the said Alexander Trotter to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, and of the several accounts or considerations for, or upon which the same were so advanced: all which conduct of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville was contrary to the duty of his said office, a breach of the high trust reposed in him, and a violation of the laws and statutes of this realm, and to the like evil example as aforesaid.
FIFTH ARTICLE.—That after the said 10th day of January, 1786, and whilst the said Alexander Trotter so continued the Paymaster of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, and with such privity, connivance, and permission as aforesaid, so applied and used the said sums of money, or great part thereof, for purposes of private advantage, profit, and emolument, as aforesaid, the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville fraudulently concealing the illegal use and application of the same, did procure, obtain, and receive from the said Alexander Trotter, advances of several large sums of money, which were made to him the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville by the said Alexander Trotter, in part from money so as aforesaid illegally drawn by him the said Alexander Trotter from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, and in part from sums of money so placed by the said Alexander Trotter in the hands of the said Messrs. Coutts and Company as aforesaid, when mixed with and undistinguished from the proper monies of the said Alexander Trotter: and for the purpose of more effectually concealing the said advances of money, the said books of account, vouchers, memorandums, and writings, were so as aforesaid burnt and destroyed.
SIXTH ARTICLE.—That amongst other Advances of money so as aforesaid obtained and received by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, from the said Alexander
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Trotter, the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did procure, obtain, and receive from the said Alexander Trotter, a sum of 22,000l. or some other large sum or sums of money, advanced by the said Alexander Trotter to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, without interest; part whereof was so advanced exclusively from public money so as aforesaid illegally drawn from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England by the said Alexander Trotter; and other past whereof was advanced from the said mixed fund, composed as well of public money so as aforesaid illegally drawn by the said Alexander Trotter from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, and placed by him in the hands of the said Messrs. Coutts and Company as aforesaid, as of the proper monies of the said Alexander Trotter in the hands of the said Messrs. Coutts and Company, which had been mixed therewith, and remained undistinguished therefrom: and for the purpose of more effectually concealing the said advances of money, the said books of account, vouchers, memorandums, and writings were so as aforesaid burnt and destroyed.
SEVENTH ARTICLE.—That amongst other advances of money so as aforesaid obtained and received by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville from the sad Alexander Trotter, the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did obtain and receive a sum of 22,000l. or some other large sum or sums of money advanced to him by the said Alexander Trotter, and for which it has been alledged by the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, that he was to pay interest: and for the purpose of more effectually concealing the said last-mentioned advances of money, the said books of accounts, vouchers, memorandums, and writings, were so as aforesaid burnt and destroyed.
EIGHTH ARTICLE.—That during all or great part of the time the said Alexander Trotter held and enjoyed the said office of Paymaster to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, and the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville held and enjoyed the said office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Navy as aforesaid, he the said Alexander Trotter did gratuitously, and without salary or other pecuniary compensation, act in and transact the private business of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, as his agent, and was from time to time in advance for the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville in that respect to the amount of from 10,000l. to 20,000l. or to some other great amount: and which advances were taken from the said

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sums of money so placed by the said Alexander Trotter in the hands of the said Messrs. Courts and Company, consisting in part of Public Money, drawn by him from the Governor and Company of the Bank of England as aforesaid, and in part of his own private monies mixed therewith, and undistinguished therefrom as aforesaid: by means whereof the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville did derive benefit and advantage from the aforesaid illegal acts of the said Alexander Trotter.
And the said Alexander Trotter did so gratuitously, and without salary, act in and transact the private business of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, and make him such advances of money as aforesaid, in consideration of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville conniving at and permitting and suffering the said Alexander Trotter so as aforesaid to apply and make use of the said sums of Public Money so drawn by him from the Bank of England, and applied and appropriated for purposes of private advantage, or interest, profit and emolument as aforesaid: and the said Alexander Trotter would not have been, and was well known to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville not to have been able to make such advances of money to the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, otherwise than from and by means of the said sums of Public Money so drawn by the said Alexander Trotter from the Bank of England, with the privity, connivance, and permission of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville as aforesaid, and applied by the said Alexander Trotter for purposes of private advantage, interest, profit, and emolument. All which proceedings and conduct of the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville were contrary to the duty of his said office, in breach of the great trust reposed in him, and in gross violation of the laws and statutes of this realm, And by all and every one of the aforesaid acts done and committed by him the said Henry Lord Viscount Melville, he was and is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.
[TROTTER'S INDEMNITY BILL.]—0n the third reading of the bill to indemnify all persons for the evidence they may give on the Impeachment of lord Melville,
Mr. Whitbread said, that as Mr. Trotter must necessarily be a very material evidence in this case, on account of the many transactions which were only known between him and lord Melville, he had a clause to move, for making his exoneration more comprehensive than was first intended. Several great and eminent lawyers, he said, held the opinion, that, notwithstanding any
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Civil Process against him, Mr. Trotter could not refuse, but may be compelled to answer any questions that may be demanded of him on a Criminal Prosecution.—But, as there were other lawyers of considerable authority, who maintained a contrary opinion, he wished to obviate any difficulty that may occur—and, in doing so, he made no doubt of being supported by an hon. gentleman opposite to him (Mr. R. Dundas, son of lord Melville), who had shewn a moderation and temper, throughout the whole of these proceedings, which entitled him to his respect, and to every consideration from the house. The clause he had to propose was as follows: "that any evidence which Mr. Trotter might have given before the Committee of the House of Commons, or may hereafter give in the Impeachment against lord viscount Melville, should not be brought against him in any Civil Suit instituted by the Attorney-General, by order of this house."
Sir W. Elford did not think that the clause proposed was sufficient for its object. It could not relieve Mr. Trotter from all embarrassment in the delivery of his testimony; for though it would prevent its being brought as evidence against him in a civil process, it might make a very unfavourable impression on the minds of some of those who might have afterwards to decide upon his conduct as a jury. There was a great diversity of opinions between lawyers on this subject, and he begged leave to read one, of a gentleman of considerable eminence, Mr. Dancey, which held, that in criminal and civil cases, in the situation of a witness, in neither case could he be compelled to give evidence which might criminate himself. That opinion also referred to Mr. Peake's book for authority, and cases to support that doctrine. He admitted, that he was one of those, who did not think this a subject of any prosecution—but, as the resolutions of the house remained yet unrescinded, and as the object of every man must be, that the ends of substantial justice should. be obtained, the witnesses ought to be relieved from any sort of embarrassment, that they might have no hesitation in freely answering such questions as may be put to them on their cross examination by his lordship's counsel. Hitherto the civil process against Mr. Trotter had only been suspended, and might, by their vote, be renewed again; but, in order to put him in a situation of protection against all consequences of his evidence, he thought it right that the civil suit should be given up altogether.
Mr. Whitbread replied, that if the hon. gentleman would propose a clause to the effect he mentioned, it would be for the house to decide whether they would adopt it or not.
Mr. Rose observed, that though by Mr. Whitbread's clause, Trotter's evidence or the impeachment could not be produced against him, yet it might afford subject of inquiry to the attorney-general; which would lead to the production of other evidence that might equally affect him.
Mr. S. Bourne argued, that, notwithstanding this indemnity against any civil process, yet it could not protect him against an indictment for perjury if he should contradict any part of his former evidence.
Mr. Serjeant Best did not consider this as affording a favour to Mr. Trotter, whom he did not think entitled to any, but as meant to render him a more competent and better evidence than he otherwise might be. The clause provided, that any evidence he may give should not afterwards be brought against him; but as it was never meant to place him in a situation of complete comfort, it was sufficient to protect him against the effects of his own evidence, and he deserved nothing more, nor any peculiar indulgence whatever.
Mr. S. Bourne explained, that Trotter's evidence might possibly afford matter of inquiry to the attorney-general, which would afterwards operate against him.
Mr. Robert Dunaas (son of lord Melville) did not wish to give any opinion as to the clause. All he asked of the house was, that if Mr. Trotter's evidence was to be taken at all, it should be taken in such a manner that he should be freed from all sort of apprehen sign and embarrassment. Without this, the evidence could not have its proper weight. All he asked was, that it should be complete.
Mr. Whitbread said, his wish was to put the witness in such a situation, that as little bias as possible might exist. This clause was drawn up by an able lawyer, who did not think it sufficient to answer the purpose. It was impossible to satisfy all the lawyers.
Mr. Alexander did not wish to do away the vote of the house on this case, but he Wished that the third reading of the bill should be postponed till the house had time to examine and consider the articles of impeachment. This would be more consistent with the dignity of their proceedings.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer had no objection to the third reading of the bill on this day, if it could be done consistently with justice, but the house must be aware
754
that the full benefit of Mr. Trotter's evidence could not be obtained, if he was sill liable to any civil prosecution. His evidence must furnish materials, from which he law officers would frame their proceedings against him. It was delusive to any individual to say, that his own evidence would not be taken against him ; while it was certain, that it would furnish grounds for questions to which he could not demur. This was so simple, that the force of it must instantly be perceived. The evidence could not be fully procured without stopping all civil prosecution. No teem could doubt that it was the invention of the house to drop the civil suit as far as lord Melville was concerned, and the object could not be attained without stopping that against Mr. also. Some distant proposition ought, therefore, to be brought forward for discontinuing the civil process altogether.
Mr. Whitbread said, that if such a proposition was brought forward, he was not inclined to oppose it.
Mr. Charles Wynne said, that he had no intention to oppose the proposition, though it did not apppear to him absolutely necessary.
Sir William Burroughs thought it was necessary to go farth r than had as yet been proposed. The mere stopping of the suit would not be sufficient, for his majesty might order one to be carried on notwithstanding this. It would, therefore, be necessary, in order to remove all bias, to enact, that no civil action should be instituted.—After a few words from Mr. Wilberforce, who agreed in the propriety of the proposition, Mr. Whitbread consented to withdraw his clause, under the impression that the hon. baronet (sir W. Elford) would to morrow bring forward such a clause as would answer his intention.
[FINANCIAL PROPOSITIONS.] Mr. Johnstone presented, without any comment, the following Financial Propositions. After the house had agreed to the first Proposition, the debate, on the motion of Mr. Huskisson, was adjourned to Tuesday next.

That the total amount of the public funded debt of Great Britain was, on the 1st February 1803. 567,008,978l.;—of which 67,255,915l. had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, and 19,180,587l. had been transferred to them on account of land tax redeemed; leaving a funded debt unredeemed of 480,572,476:—and, that the amount of annuities charged on Great Britain (after deducting what have fallen in) was, on the

755
1st February, in short annuities and for lives, 539,979l.; and in long annuities 1,015,410l.

That the total amount of public funded debt created in Great Britain for account of Ireland was, on the 1st February 1803, 22,348,000l.;—of which there had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt 1,123 415l.; leaving a funded debt unredeemed of 21,224,585l. together with long annuities to the amount of 9,791l.

That the total amount of public funded debt created in Great Britain for account of the emperor of Germany was, on the 1st February 1803, 7,502,633l.;—of which 375,137l. had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt; leaving a funded debt unredeemed of 7,127,496l. together with annuities to the amount of 230,000l. which will expire in 1819.

That the amount of the outstanding demands unprovided for on the 5th January 1803, exclusive of unfunded debt, and of the anticipation of certain duties annually voted, was, 592,630l.: that the deficiency of ways and means for the year 1802 was, 171,431l.;—making the amount of demands unprovided for on the 5th January 1803, 764,061l.

That the unfunded debt in exchequer bills unprovided for, or charged upon funds which proved insufficient, was, on the 5th Jan. 1803, 9 827,400l. including 3,000,000l. in the bank, which bear no interest, in consideration of the renewal of the charter.—That the unfunded debt in navy bills was, on the 5th January, 1803, 3,105,648l.

That the total amount of the public funded debt of Great Britain was, on the 1st February 1805, 603,925,792l.;—of which 89,003,759l. had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, and 21,794,307l. had been transferred to them on account of land tax redeemed,leaving a funded debt unredeemed of 493,128,726l. And that the amount of annuities charged on Great Britain (after deducting what have fallen in) was, on the 1st Feb. in short annuities and for lives, 509,353l. and in long annuities 1,047,494l. And that a further debt, amounting to 34,400,000l. capital stock, has been created by the sums borrowed in the present session of parliament, and 1,660,529l. by 5 per cent. annuities, created in 1797, subscribed into other funds.

That the total amount of the public funded debt, created in Great Britain lot account of Ireland, was, on the 1st of Feb.
756
1805, 33,738,000l.;—of which there had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, 2,175,099 l. leaving a funded debt of 31,562,901l. together with long annuities, to the amount of 16,208l. And that a further debt amounting to 4,660,000l. capital stock, and to 75,000l. per annum in long annuities, has been created in sums borrowed in the present session in Great Britain on account of Ireland.

That the total amount of public funded debt created in Great Britain, for account of the emperor of Germany, was, on the 1st February 1805, 7,502,633l.;—of which 550,228l. had been purchased by the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, leaving a funded debt of 6,952,405l. together with annuities to the amount of 230,000l. which will expire in 1819.

That the amount of outstanding demands unprovided for on the 5th January 1805, exclusive of unfunded debt, and of the anticipation of certain duties annually voted, was 1,817,863l.: that the surplus of ways and means for the year 1804, was 1,192,115l.; reducing the amount of demands unprovided for on the 5th January 1805, to 625,748l.;—the whole of which has been paid off or provided for in the present session.

That on the 5th January 1805, there were 3,375,488l. in exchequer bills, charged upon the aids of 1804, to the discharge of which the aids of 1804 were insufficient; 12,000,000l. charged on the aids of 1805; and 3,000,000l. payable in 1806, which are with the bank, and bear no interest in consideration of the renewal of the charter; making a total of exchequer bills unprovided for, of 18,375,488l.;—of which sum 3,375,488l. has been paid off or provided for in the present session.—That the unfunded debt in navy bills was, on the 5th January 1805, 5,001,567l.

That the variations in the state of the public debt between the 5th January 1803 and the 5th January 1806, being three years of war, may be estimated as follow:

The public funded debt of Great Britain unredeemed, which on the 1st Feb. 1803 was 480,572,476l. will amount to 516,689,255l. after deducting 12,500,000l. for the operation of the sinking fund during the current year; being an increase of capital stock of

£. 36,116,779.

The public funded debt created in Great Britain for account of Ireland unredeemed, which, on the 1st Feb. 1803 was 21,224,585l. will amount to 35,562,901l. after deducting 750,000l. for the operation

757

of the sinking fund during the current year; being an increase of capital stock of

£.14,338,316.

The long annuities of Great Britain, which, on the 1st February 1803, were 1,015,410l. will amount to 1,047,494 l.; being an increase of annual charge of

33,084.

The long annuities created in Great Britain for account of Ireland, which, on the 1st February 1803, were 9,791 l. will amount to 91,207 l.; being an increase of annual charge of

81,416.

The unfunded debt in exchequer bills, which, on the 1st February 1803, was 9,827,400 l. will amount to 15,000,000 l. being an increase of

5,172,600.

The unfunded debt in navy bills, which, on the 1st Feb. 1803, was 3,105,648 l. will amount to 5,001,567 l.; being an increase of

1,895,919.

The funded debt created in Great Britain for account of the emperor of Germany unredeemed,which, on the 1st. Feb. 1803, was 7,127,496 l, will be reduced to 6,852,405 l. after deducting 100,000l. for the operation of the sinking fund during the current year; being a diminution of capital stock of

275,091.

The short annuities of Great Britain, which, on the 1st February, were 539,979 l. will be reduced to 486,099 l.; being a diminution of annual charge of

53,880.

The outstanding demands unprovided for, which, on the 1st February 1803, were 764,061 l, will be reduced to 625,748 l.; being a diminution of

138,313.

The sum applicable to the redemption of debt,—which, on the 1st Feb. 1803 was, for the debt of Great Britain, 5,834,986 l.; for debt created in Great Britain for account of Ireland, 258,434 l.; for debt created in Great Britain for account of the emperor of Germany, 47,947 l.; making a total of 6,141,367 l.;—will amount to 7,599,172 l. for the debt of Great Britain; 473,612 l. for the debt created in Great Britain for account of Ireland; 56,199 l. for the debt created in Great Britain for account of the emperor of Germany;—making a total of 8,128,983 l.; being an increase of 1,987,616.

That the annual charge
on account of the public funded debt of Great Britain, after deducting the interest and the charges of management on stock transferred to the commissioners for the re-
758
duction of the national debt, for the redemption of the land tax, was, on

the 1st Feb. 1803

£.23,510 967;

1st Feb. 1804

24,110,475;

1st Feb. 1805

24,928,336:—

And that a further charge has been incurred on account of the sums borrowed in the present session, and by 5l. per cent. annuities subscribed into other funds, a-mounting to-1,430,901.

That the sum annually applicable to the reduction of the national debt of Great Britain, in pursuance of the several acts relating thereto, was, on the 1st February 1803, 5,834,986l.; being about 1/82nd part of the unredeemed debt existing on that day; on the 1st February 1804, 6,311,626; being about 1/77th part of the unredeemed debt existing on that day; on the 1st February 1805, 6,835,625 l. being about 1/72nd part of the unredeemed debt existing on that day.

That the net produce of the permanent taxes, existing on the 5th Jan. 1803, was 28,246,681 l. including 1,957,340 l. for taxes imposed in the year 1802; on the 5th Jan. 1804, 30,754,724 l. including 4,584,445 l. for taxes imposed in 1802; and, on the 5th of January 1805, 28,555,634 l. including 76,689 l. for the purchase of legal quays.

That the net produce of the war taxes was, in the year ending 5th of April

1804,

£

Customs and Excise

3,377,442

Property Tax

363,877

3,741,319

April 1805,Customs and Excise

7,868,078

Property Tax

3,919,108

11,787,186

That the official value of all imports into Great Britain, in the year ending the 5th January 1803, was 31,442,318 l.; and on an average of six years, ending the 5th January 1803, was 28,419,626 l.

That the official value of all imports into Great Britain, in the year ending the 5th January 1805, supposing the imports from the East Indies (of which no account has yet been made up) to be the same as in the preceding year, was 30,342,047 l. and on an average of six years, ending the 5th January 1805, was 29,996,736 l.

That the official value of British manufactures, exported from Great Britain in the year ending 5th January 1803, was 26,993,129 l.; and on an average of six

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years, ending the 5th of January 1803, was 22,942,800 l.

That the official value of British manufactures exported from Great Britain in the year ending the 5th of January 1805, was 23,934,291 l.; an on average of six years, ending the 5th of January 1805, was 24,544,625 l.
And that the real value of British manufactures, exported in the year ending 5th of Jan. 1803, may be estimated at 48,500,683 l.; and in the year ending the 5th Jan. 1805, at 40,349,642 l.

That the official value of foreign merchandize exported from Great Britain in the year ending the 5th January 1803, after deducting the excess arising from the valuation of coffee, was 14,418,837 l. and on an average of six years, ending the 5th Jan. 1803, was 11,651,333 l.

That the official value of foreign merchandize exported from Great Britain in the year ending, the 5th January 1803, after deducting the excess arising from the valuation of coffee, was 10,515,574 l. and on an average of six years, ending the 5th January 1805, was 11,619,987 l.

That in the year ending 5th January 1803, the number of British vessels entered inwards in Great Britain, was 13,622 l.; their tonnage 1,793,333; and the number of men employed in them 108,669:—that the number of British vessels cleared outwards, was 13,012; their tonnage 1,625,966; and the number of men employed in them 102,427:

That in the year ending the 5th Jan. 1803, the number of foreign vessels entered inwards in Great Britain, was 3,733; their tonnage 480,241; and the number of men employed in them 27,737:—and that the number of foreign vessels cleared outwards was 3,352; their tonnage 461,823; and the number of men employed in them 26,749.

That in the year ending the 5th Jan. 1805, the number of British ships entered inwards in Great Britain, was 10,508; their tonnage 1,395,387; and the number of men employed to navigate them 82,970:—That the number of British ships cleared outwards, was 11,131; their tonnage 1,463,286; and the number of men employed to navigate them 93,748.

That in the year ending 5th January 1805, the number of foreign ships entered inwards in Great Britain, was 4,271; their tonnage 607,299; and the number of men employed in them 30,744:—That the number of foreign ships cleared outwards, was 4,093; their tonnage 587,849; and the number of men employed in them 30,507.

That the number of British ships built and registered in the several ports of the British empire, in the year

Ending

Number.

Tonnage.

5 Jan. 1803, was

1,231

137,508;

5 Jan. 1804

1,402

135,349;

5 Jan. 1805

940

92,091.

That the total sum to be raised in Great Britain, within the year 1805, may be estimated as follows:

Interest on public funded debt, charges of management, sinking fund, on the 5th Feb. 1805

24,928,336

Interest, charges of management, &c. to be paid between the 5th February 1805 and 5th January 1806, on stock created by loans of the present session to the amount of 34,400,000l. and on increase of stock by repayment of loyalty

1,430,901

Interest on exchequer bills, the amount issued and bearing interest exceeding 20,000,000 l.

1,000,000

Civil government of Scotland, pensions on revenue, militia and deserters warrants, bounties for promoting fisheries, &c. estimated to be the same as in the year ending the 5th Jan. 1805

930,336

Charges of collecting and management of the revenue, estimated to be the same as in the year ending 5th Jan. 1805

2,135,176

Proportion to be defrayed by Great Britain, of the civil list and other charges on the consolidated fund of Great Britain (the charges on the consolidated fund of Ireland, which is likewise a joint charge, being included in the supplies) 15/17ths of 1,366,851 l.

1,206,045

Supplies voted in 1805 for Great Brit. exclusively

£ 4,534,000

Supplies voted in 1805 for Great Britain and Ireland

Navy

£.14,645,630

Army

18,580,124

Ordnance

4,846,994

Miscellaneous

1,619,781

Foreign Subs.

3,500,000

£.43,192,529

Deduct the proportion of charge to be borne by Ireland, 2/17ths

5,081,474

38,111,055

42,645,055

Interest for loans to the Emp. of Germany

497,528

Making in the whole the sum of

£.74,773,377

There has also been borrowed in Great Britain, for the service of Ireland, 4,000,000l.; and 5,246,506 l. will be levied parochially for the maintenance of the poor, estimating the sum required for this purpose to be the same as was required in the year ending Easter 1803.

That the funds applicable to discharge the sum required to be provided by Great Britain for the year 1805, may be estimated as follow:

The gross receipt of the permanent revenue, hereditary revenue, Imperial monies repaid, (after deducting the re-payment of over entries, drawbacks, &c.) estimated to produce the same as on an average of three years, ending 5th January 1805

34,065,512

Estimated produce to the 5th January 1806, of the permanent taxes imposed in the present session

1,200,000

Malt and personal estates

2,750,000

Lottery, after deducting the proportion of Ireland

300,000

War taxes, estimated to produce to the 5th April 1806

14,500,000

Surplus of ways and means for the year 1804

1,192,115

Loan

20,000,000

£.74,007,627.

There has likewise been a loan of 4,000,000 l. for the service of Ireland; and 5,246,506 l. will be levied parochially for the maintenance of the poor, estimating the sum required for this purpose to be the same as was required in the year ending Easter 1803.

MINUTES.
The bills upon the table were forwarded in their several sages.—Among these, the Forgery Law Extension bill, the Warehousing bill, and the British and Irish Corn Importation bill, were read a third time and passed.—The Howth Harbour bill, the Militia Officers' Remuneration, the Palace Yard Improvement bill, and the Corn Act Amendment bill, severally passed through committees of the whole house, and were ordered to be reported.—On the occasion of the report of the Palace Yard Improvement bill, the earl of Suffolk took oc-

731
casion to observe, that a plan of the intended improvements and alterations, including those proposed in that house, ought to be laid before the house. With respect to the beautiful prospect of that venerable edifice the Abbey, which the openings now making would afford, he expressed his hope that they would not be closed up by newly erected buildings. On the whole, he thought the subject worthy of the consideration of that house.—A number of bills were brought up from the commons by Mr. Henderson, and sir J. W. Anderson; several of them were private or return bills; among the public bills presented were the Dublin Paving bill, the Irish Infirmaries bill, the Straw Plat bill, the Spanish Red Wine, and the Thames Funnel bills. These were respectively read a first time.—The earl of Suffolk took the opportunity, on the reading of the Irish Infirmary bill, to state his opinion, that the system adopted with respect to Infirmaries, and the Medical treatment of the Poor, greatly required improvement; he adverted to something like the principle of the bill for Ireland just read, as advantageous to be adopted in this country.

TRADE BETWEEN THE WEST INDIES AND AMERICA.
Lord Holland rose to bring forward his promised motion for some important information on this subject. He described the proceedings which had taken place in some of the British West India islands, particularly in Jamaica, which induced him to think the present appeal to the wisdom of parliament necessary. They arose principally from the conduct of the governors of those islands, with respect to the discretionary power exercised by them, relative to the commercial intercourse between the islands and the United States of America. He alluded to the suspension of the Navigation Laws, in one point of view, but more especially to the restrictive power exercised by them, with respect to the importation of American produce; so necessary for the sustenance of the islands, and the shipping of that country. The line of conduct to which he referred, either in a political or commercial point of view, was of the most serious importance, and still more, as it affected the supply of the islands with articles of the first necessity, as lumber and provisions. The inhabitants of Jamaica, in particular, felt it so strongly, that their legislative assemblies made repeated representations to the governor upon the subject, who, in one of his answers, stated, he could not permit the importation in neutral bottoms, longer than a given pe-
732
riod. With respect to the question, though, as affecting the interests of the islands, of great importance, it was still of greater, as it might affect the commercial intercourse and good understanding between this country and the United States of America. He deprecated every thing like a narrow, selfish, commercial policy, with respect to America. Ministers should consider the circumstances and situation of America, the great importance of continuing that good understanding and extensive commercial and friendly intercourse which now happily subsisted between the two countries, and to which their common origin, language, and manners, so very fortunately disposed them. One of his objects in coming forward was to give an opportunity to his majesty's ministers to disclaim any such notions or principles as actuated their conduct with respect to the restrictions on the trade and commercial intercourse between the West India islands and America. It so happened, and fortunately, he thought, that our West India islands could not be adequately supplied with articles of the first necessity, except from the United States. He thought this was eventually fortunate, because the important consideration to which he adverted would operate as an additional inducement with the government of this country to cultivate a friendly understanding with America. He adverted to some ineffectual attempts which had been made under former administrations to supply our West India islands from the British dominions in North America. Adverting to the incalculable importance of the American commerce to this country, he observed, that any attempts to exclude America from the trade of our West India islands, would be worse than the conduct, as related in ancient fable, of the dog in the manger, whose determination was comparatively wise and liberal. It would go to remind him of the fable of the two petitioners to Jupiter, to whom the Godhead said, that whatever he gave to the one, the other should have double; then, said one, in a paroxysm of folly and malignity, give me blindness in one eye, that my neighbour may be blind in both eyes? So would it be metaphorically, did this country wish to exclude America from our West India trade, upon the narrow principle of commercial jealousy. His lordship took a view of the policy and effects of the Navigation Act, in its different bearings; and argued, that the changes in the system of Europe, and the relative situation of this country, rendered the policy of acting upon it

733
very different from what it was at its first enactment. In war, generally speaking, it was impracticable. He wished the affairs to which he adverted were placed on a liberal footing and permanent basis; and it was important they should declare what line or system of conduct they intended to adopt, respecting the intercourse between America and our West India colonies, in time of war. Through the whole of his speech, more especially towards the conclusion, the noble lord expatiated upon the great national importance, either in a political or commercial view, of maintaining an amicable intercourse and a close connection with America; and repeated, that one of his principal objects in coming forward was to give ministers an opportunity of disclaiming all notions of narrow or selfish policy, with respect to the intercourse in question; a circumstance which would give great satisfaction to all parties; and with respect to their intended system in future, he thought they should be explicit. His lordship concluded by moving an address to his majesty, "for the production of the communication which took place between the legislative assemblies of Jamaica and his majesty's governor of that island, touching the intercourse between that colony and the United States of America, from the commencement of the war with France, to the 21st of May last; also for copies of the correspondence between his majesty's secretary of state for the colonial department, and the governor of Jamaica, on the subject, within the same interval; also, for various documents, respecting the quantities of provisions, &c. imported from America and the island of Jamaica, at certain given periods, distinguishing those imported from British America, and those from the United States of America."—The question being put on the first motion;
The Earl of Camden, in allusion to what had transpired on the subject on a former evening, observed, he had stated that no counter-orders had been sent out to the governors. The orders which were sent relative to the conduct of the governors, respecting the subject in question, were precisely to the same effect as those sent out for the same purpose during the last war. By the act of the 28th of the King, he observed, all goods and commodities were prohibited from being imported into the British West India Islands from the United States of America, with the exception of certain articles, as provisions and lumber, in cases of necessity; of these, the respective governors were generally constituted the judges. They
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were to act upon their responsibility with respect to the admission of these articles, and bills of indemnity were passed, when they had acted contrary to the laws. The noble earl adverted to the extensive nature of the information called for, and the propriety of accompanying these documents with others which were necessary for the full illustration of the subject, and which, in this very advanced period of the session, it would be impracticable to produce. He, therefore, submitted to the noble baron the propriety of withdrawing his motion for the present; or, in case he persisted, he should think it his duty to move the order of the day upon them.
Lord Hawkesbury said, that his objections were not so much against producing the required information, as against producing that alone, which would give a false prejudice upon the subject, and would by no means put the house in full possession of the case. Under that conviction, ministers would feel it their duty also to move for a number of additional documents. With respect to what was said of the restrictions upon the trade in question, he had to observe there were many representations made, from respectable and important quarters, of a direct contrary tendency to those alluded to by the noble baron, and reasons adduced, that government, instead of imposing unnecessary restrictions, were, in fact, too indulgent, with respect to that part of the trade of the United States, to the great detriment of the British merchants; their lordships would, therefore, see the propriety of the proposed additional documents, in order to afford parliament and the public an opportunity to decide and judge thoroughly of the merits of the question. He admitted the subject was one which any noble lord might fairly bring before parliament, but the advanced period of the session rendered the production of the
necessary documents impracticable. He was, therefore, of opinion with his noble friend, it would be preferable to postpone the discussion to another session, when all the information proper to be laid before parliament could be produced. With respect to the line of conduct intended to be pursued by his majesty's government, relative to the subject in question, it would be regulated by their conviction of the true interests and character of the country, and a due respect the principles of the navigation laws. With respect to what was said of their views, in regard to the trade of America, they would be regulated by no sentiment contrary to those just and liberal principles of commer-

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cial policy, so well understood in the present day; upon principles, founded not only upon the true interest of their own country, but even with a proper regard to the interest and prosperity of America herself.
The Earl of Stanbope observed, that his majesty's ministers had not given a fair and honest answer to the question put by his noble friend, as to the conduct they meant to pursue with respect to the colonies during the recess of parliament. They dealt in nothing but generalities, and every statement they made was full of ambiguity. He wished their lordships to consider what might be the consequences of starving those slaves whom injustice and inhumanity had torn from their own country, contrary to all the laws of God and man. He wished his majesty's ministers would take an example from the great and wise man who was at the head of the government of America. In a late speech he had drawn a comparison between the situation of the nations of Europe and his own country, in which a tax-gatherer was not to be seen from one end of it to the other. How different was the state of this country! Admiral Vernon used to say, in a rough seaman-like way, that this country was more taxed than any other on this side of hell. Were the worthy admiral living now, he certainly would find it necessary to make use of still stronger language.
The Duke of Montrose saw no reason for the boisterous speech which the noble earl had just made, unless the heat of the weather had so inflamed his imagination, as to render it necessary for him to deliver the observations with which he usually favoured their lordships, in a series of speeches, at this season. A noble earl (the earl of Selkirk,) who entertained similar opinions with the noble lord on the other side of the house, had sold his property in Scotland for the purpose of settling in America, but had returned without carrying his intention into execution. He would therefore recommend it to the noble lord opposite to him, to go to that happy country he praised so much, and he would probably return in better humour with his own.
The Earl of Stanbope said, he would not have it said by any person that he was not in humour with his country, merely because he was not in humour with a set of the most ignorant and mischievous ministers that ever existed in any country.
The Earl of Limerick observed, that if a general importation was permitted in the Colonies from America, the greatest injury would be done to the Irish provision trade.
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Lord Suffolk supported the motion, and vindicated the motives which had induced lordSelkirk to go to America.
The Earl of Carysfort contended, that the system of which noble lords on the other side had talked, and upon which they acted with respect to the West India Islands, was in fact no system, as it went to encourage the governors of the different Islands continually to violate the law.
Lord Harrowby briefly vindicated the conduct of ministers on the subject in question; and he deemed them sufficiently explicit in their declarations.
Lord Holland spoke in reply, and contended that ministers had not been explicit; their declarations were mere generalities; in allusion to what was said of the emigration of a noble earl (Selkirk) to America, he referred to his late work upon the subject, which he regarded as full of useful information, and vindicated the motives which induced that noble lord to go to the country in question. He warmly reprehended the idea of noble lords being told, when they openly and freely declared their opinions of the misconduct or incapacity of ministers, that they should leave their country if they did not like it. No, it was the duty, as his noble friend well observed, of persons in their situation, to stay in their country, to watch over its interests, to endeavour to rescue it from destruction, and to abide its fate. Such was the duty of members of that house, and they who asserted otherwise knew little of the duties of legislature
The Duke of Montrose said a few words, in consequence of what fell from noble lords opposite; he would not be dictated to, as to the line of debate or observation he should pursue. He would adopt that which he thought most likely to conduce to his objects; it was not his practice to rebuke others, neither would he be rebuked.—The question being loudly called for, a division took place. For the motion, 8—Against it, 14—majority, 6.—Adjourned.