Sitting of 21 January 1805

MIUUTES.—
The speaker reported to the house, that the house attended his majesty on Thursday last, with their address; to which his majesty was pleased to give the following most gracious answer:—"Gentlemen, I return you my warmest thanks for this loyal and dutiful address. It affords me the greatest satisfaction to receive the declaration of your full concurrence in the sentiments which have dictated my answer to the communication from the French govt. The conviction you express that the safety and permanent interests of this country are closely connected with the security of Europe, and the cordial assurances of your zealous support in enabling me to prosecute the war with vigour till it can be brought to a safe and honourable termination, are calculated to produce the happiest effects in the present situation of affairs."—A new writ was ordered for Droitwich, in the room of sir E. Winnington, bart. deceased.—A petition was presented by sir J. Anderson, from certain coal factors, whose names were thereunto subscribed, praying to be relieved from the penalties imposed by the act for establishing and regulating a coal
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market in the city of London. By this act it was ordered, that the names of the factors should be attached at whole length to their various accounts. Several of the petitioners had inadvertently abbreviated their signatures, and the object of this petition was to indemnify them against these and other literal and unintentional errors. Referred to a committee.—A person from the office of the chief secretary in Ireland presented at the bar several accounts from the accountant-general's office, pursuant to an order of the 9th of July last.—Ordered to be printed.—Lord Marsham moved, pursuant to notice, that the report of the committee on the conduct of the sheriffs at the election for the county of Middlesex in 1802, be taken into consideration to-morrow se'enight—The speaker said, that with a view to the motion of the noble lord, he should move that the resolution which that house had unanimously adopted last session, to investigate the business early in this session, be read, which was accordingly done, and the motion of Lord Marsham agreed to.—On the motion of Mr. Huskisson, the order of the day was read for the house resolving itself into a committee of supply. The house accordingly formed itself into a committee of supply, and that part of his majesty's speech being read, it was resolved, that a supply be granted to his majesty.

WAR IN INDIA.—
Mr. Francis.—Sir; the motion which I mean to submit to the house will not make it necessary for me to trouble you with many reasons in support of it, or for more than a few minutes; and, indeed, it appeared to me so much a matter of course, that I should not have thought it required a previous notice, but for a suggestion which I am always desirous to comply with. In the course of the last session, the house thought fit to order a great variety of papers to be laid before them, to explain the causes of the war which began in 1803, against two of the principal Mahratta chiefs, Scindia and Boosla. By the papers before the house it appears, that those chiefs were subdued and reduced to submission, and that treaties of peace had been signed with them about the close of the same year; and it was natural to conclude that there was an end of the war in India. Nothing could be more improbable than that any of the remaining Mahratta powers should take up the contest, where

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the others had left it; and especially against an enemy flushed with success, and which the greatest powers of the Mahratta empire had not been able to resist. Neverthless it is known, that another war with another chief, called Holcar, immediately, or soon after, succeeded to the pacification with Scindia and Boosla. I consider it as the final act of the same transaction, and that the information before the house would not be complete without the papers relative to these last hostilities, which I propose to move for. I hold it to be of importance to the good govt. and safety of our possessions in India, that a regular communication of all material transactions should, at proper intervals, be made to parliament, and that the record of them should be preserved in this house. I have no doubt that Holcar has been subdued; his force, compared with ours, is so inconsiderable, that one can only wonder at his venturing, at such a time especially, to provoke a quarrel with a power so much superior to him. Nevertheless he has certainly been able to make some resistance, and we know that many lives have been lost already in the course of this petty war. In one of the provinces ceded to us, called Bundalcund, a party of his cavalry surrounded a detachment of ours, consisting of two complete companies of sepoys, some cannon, and fifty European artillerymen, every man of whom were cut to pieces. The loss of the sepoys is to be lamented; that of the artillery-men is invaluable. The main body, from which this little force was detached, immediately retired, and the officer who commanded it was put under arrest. I need not say more to prove that these transactions deserve the attention of the house. I am not aware of any reasonable objection to the motion, but if any should be made, I hope the house will permit me to reply to it. I move you, sir, "That there be laid before this house, copies or extracts of all letters or correspondence received from India, since the last session of parliament, relative to hostilities between the British govt. and a Mahratta chief, called Jesswunt Rao Holcar, and the causes thereof, as far as may be consistent with the public service, and with the good faith due to persons from whom secret intelligence may have been received."—Before I sit down, I wish to mention a subject connected with the Mahratta war, on
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which the house has received no information. I expected to find it explained in the printed papers, but in them there is no mention of it. In the country of Guzzerat, to the north west of Bombay, there is a prince called the Gwicowar: a part of his territory has been ceded to the company, partly to make good the pay of our subsidiary force stationed at Poona, and for no other objects of indemnification. Out of that fund we ought to have received a considerable revenue; but to that prince the govt. of Bombay have lent a sum not much less than 360,000l. The documents relative to this extraordinary transaction, I think, ought to have been laid before the house under the orders already given, which would save time and trouble; if not, it must be the subject of a particular motion.
Lord Castlereaghhad no objection to the production of the papers the hon. gent, had referred to, but was sorry the hon. gent, had introduced other circumstances that were not necessarily connected with the motion. The observations he had thrown out respecting the defeat of that unfortunate detachment went, the house would feel, to involve the character of an officer, whose conduct was now the subject of military inquiry. But, considering this event in a more general view, he did not see that it afforded so much room for complaint as the hon. gent. would, have us believe. Great successes had been obtained in other quarters, which much more than counterbalanced that unfortunate circumstance. The hon. gent, had also gone out of his way in the observations he had made respecting the territories that had been ceded as indemnities, and the sums granted to a prince of the Guzzerat. These, the noble lord thought, would come more properly under discussion when the India budget should be submitted to the house. He had no objection, however, that the house should be in possession of all the information the hon. gent. could wish. Indeed, the qualification the hon. gent, himself had annexed to his motion, removed every objection that could be made to it, as he wishes only to have such papers as may not interfere with the arrangements of govt. or put them in an awkward predicament in regard to the quarter from which they may have received secret information.
Mr. Francis.I beg leave to assure the house that I had no thoughts of reflecting

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on the officer to whose misfortune I have alluded. I do not even know his name, nor is it possible that any thing said of him, at this time and at this distance, can affect his situation or character in India. My sole object in mentioning the fact was to justify the motion, and to exculpate myself from having intruded on the house without a strong case, or without sufficient reason.—The question was then put and agreed to.—Adjourned.

MINUTES.—
The Earl of Caledon,one of the Irish representative peers, was sworn, and took his seat.—Lord Ellen-borough moved the second reading of the bill for rectifying omissions in the insolvent debtors bill; it was accordingly read a second time, and committed for to-morrow.—A number of naturalization bills were introduced, read a first time, and ordered for a second reading.—Mr. Williams, from the commissioners of naval enquiry, presented the ninth report of that commission; which was ordered to lie on the table.—Mr. Johnson, from the secretary of state for Ireland's office, presented the 2th, 28th, 29th,, and 30th reports from the commissioners of national accounts in Ireland: ordered to lie on the table.

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.—
The Earl of Suffolksaid, that it was his inten-

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tion, last session, to have given notice of a motion respecting the state of Ireland, but upon communicating with some noble lords, he had thought it advisable to defer it for the moment. Circumstances had since undergone an important change. Fortunately for this country, fortunately for Europe, and, he trusted, fortunately for that part of the united kingdom, a minister was placed at the head of affairs, who had pledged himself, in some measure, to support the cause of that country. As the thing stood at present, he wished, as far as was practicable, to ascertain the intentions of govt. on that important point before he should proceed further, or to see what steps the executive govt. should take in the business. Another consideration with him would be the result of the petition on the part of the Roman Catholics in Ireland. If the prayer of it was acceded to, he should not, perhaps, have any occasion to trouble their lordships on that point. But, should no petition be presented, or, if presented, be rejected, then he should feel it his duty to make the motion, of the necessity of which he had long been convinced by observation and experience. Indeed he could not well bring himself to imagine that it would be opposed by a minister who had given a solemn pledge to use his best and incessant endeavours in support of the measure which he was anxious should be submitted to their lordships; more especially when he recollected, as their lordships must also recollect, that without the influence of that pledge and promise, that minister could never have succeeded in bringing about the great measure of the union.

Additional Force Bill.—
Earl Darnleysaid, that he was desirous to be acquainted with the effect of a measure brought forward last session, commonly known by the name of the additional force bill. He had reason to apprehend that this measure was far from having attained its object, or rather that it had proved wholly inadequate to it. Should there be no objection to such a motion, he would now give notice, that it was his intention in a few days, to move, That there be laid before the house, an account of the number of men raised through the operation of the said act. That motion he should follow up with another, respecting the operation of the same measure with regard to Ireland. The noble lord was desirous to make the motions separately; because,
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with regard to Ireland, at least it would appear, that the provisions of that bill were net only inadequate for the defence of that country, but proved moreover, an onerous and oppressive tax on that part of the united kingdom, and fat beyond that proportion which by the articles of the union, it was bound to bear.
Lord Hawkesburydid not conceive there would be any objection to the motion; the noble lord might make it now, if he thought proper, nor was it necessary, in his opinion, to make separate motions on the same subject respecting the two countries.
Earl Darnleyacquiesced in part of the noble secretary's suggestion, but persisted in dividing the two motions. His lordship then moved "that an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that his majesty would be graciously pleased to give directions, that there be laid before the house an account of the number of men raised in pursuance of the additional force bill." This motion was agreed to, as also a similar one with regard to Ireland.

CONDUCT OF JUDGE FOX.—
The Marquis of Abercornpresented again the three petitions against Judge Fox, which were submitted to the house last session; namely, one from Mr. Hart, one from the Grand Jury of the county of Fermanagh, and one from the High Sheriff of the same county, which were severally read, and ordered to lie on the table. His lordship then presented the heads of the charges made against justice Fox, and concluded by moving, that the house should resolve itself into a committee on Thursday next, to consider the said papers.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that the business before the house was one of the most important that could come under their lordship's deliberation. It was therefore of the greatest importance that they should consider well what mode of proceeding ought to be adopted. By the act of the 1st of his present majesty, by which it was enacted that the commissions of the judges should not be terminated by the demise of the crown, it was proved that a judge might be removed upon an address to his majesty from both houses of Parliament, praying for such removal. The question, therefore, in this case, must ultimately be, whether the facts alledged against Mr. Justice Fox were such as to-call upon their lordships to concur in as

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address for his removal. An important question, however, arose as to the mode of proceeding, in the first instance, and it would probably become a subject for their lordships deliberation on Thursday next, whether they should call upon Judge Fox to answer to the facts as alledged by the noble marquis, or whether they ought not first to proceed some length in the investigation of those alledged facts, in order to ascertain if such a case was made out as entitled them to call upon that judge to defend himself. This was a subject of the Utmost importance, and demanded grave and serious consideration. He was happy that this was the only instance that had hitherto occurred since the passing of the bill alluded to of the conduct of a judge becoming the subject of a discussion like the present, and it was certainly incumbent upon the house to determine as to the mode of proceeding with the greatest caution and deliberation.—The motion of the noble marquis was then agreed to; and their lordships were ordered to be summoned for Thursday.—Adjourned.