Sitting of 2 December 1803

Preamble
[MINUTES]—
Mr. Wharton,from the Bank of England, presented at the bar, "an account of the number and amount of bank notes in circulation on the 1st of June, the 1st of August, the 1st of October, and the 25th of November, I803, distinguishing those under £5." Ordered to he on the table, and to be printed.—On the motion of Sir W. Scott, the stipendiary curates bill was read a second lime; committed pro forma, the blanks filled up, the report received, and the bill as amended, ordered to be taken into further consideration on Wednesday next.—Mr. Hobhouse brought up the report of the seamen's desertion bill, which was agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on Monday next.—On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the bank restriction bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.—The house then resolved itself into a committee of ways and means; in which, the Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the following resolutions; that the duty on malt, mum, cyder, and perry, imposed by the 43d of his present Majesty, which was to expire on the 24th of June, 1604,be further continued till the 24th of June, 1805; that the 4s. in the pound to be raised on all pensions, offices, &c. till the 25th of March, 1804, do continue to be raised on the same till the 25th of March, 1805; that the duties on sugar, tobacco, snuff, &c. imposed by the different acts of Parliament, do continue to be further raised upon the same till the 25th of March, 1805. These resolutions were severally put and agreed to.—The Secretary at War presented an estimate of the expence of guards and garrisons, which was ordered to he on the table. He then gave notice, that, on Friday next, he should submit the army estimates to the consideration of the house.—Sir Philip Stephens moved the order of the day, for the house to resolve itself into a committee of the whole house, to consider further of a supply to be granted to his Majesty; which being read, he moved, That the several accounts presented, of the ordinaries and extraordinaries of the navy, be referred to the said committee. Ordered.—The house haying formed, itself into a com-
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mittee of the whole house; Sir Philip moved; that a sum, not exceeding 2,670,000 l. 9s. 9d. be granted to his Majesty for the ordinaries of the navy, including the half-pay of navy and marine officers, for 1804. Granted; that 948,520l. be granted for building, re building, and repairing ships of war in his Majesty's dock-yards, over and above the ordinary wear and tear, for the year 1804. Granted.—The chairman was ordered to report progress, and to ask leave to sit again.—Report ordered to be received to-morrow morning.—Sir Philip Stephens gave notice, that he should, on Monday, move to refer die estimates of the probable expense of transports, prisoners of war, &c. to a committee of the whole house.—Mr. Vansittart moved the orders of the day, on the report of the committee on expiring laws, which being read, he moved the continuance of all the last regulations respecting corn, permitting the importation, and prohibiting the exportation of it; renewing also the regulations respecting the drawback on the exportation of sugars, &c. and renewing also the regulations respecting various articles that have been permitted to be imported without payment of duty; renewing likewise all the last regulations respecting the trade, &c. of Malta till after peace, &c. which were all agreed to.—Mr. Vansittart moved for leave to bring in a bill to indemnify such persons in Great-Britain as have omitted to qualify themselves for offices and employments, and justices of the peace who have omitted to deliver in their qualifications, officers of boroughs, &c. as required by law, &c. Granted.—Mr. Vansittart then moved, That there be laid before the house, an estimate of the charges of barracks in Great-Britain and Ireland, from the 25th of December, 1803, to the 25th of December, 1804. Ordered.—He concluded by moving an address to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give directions for that purpose. Agreed to.—Mr. Corry gave notice that he would to-morrow, move for leave to bring in a bill for continuing the acts relative to the importation of provisions to Ireland, and also for continuing the sugar act.—The right hon. gent, then observed, that as the act which passed last session, respecting the issue of what is called in Ireland silver-notes, would expire on the 1st of January, 1804, and as he thought it necessary to wait for information, from gentlemen of that country, respecting the state of that species of circulating credit, he should, on Monday, move for leave to bring in a bill to suspend, for a limited time, that prohibitory act, in order

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to give Parliament an opportunity to receive the desired information.

CURATES RELIEF BILL.—
The Chancellor of the Exchequermoved the order of the day, that the house do now resolve itself into a committee, to consider of the most effectual and expedient mode of affording a temporary relief to curates, who might be deprived of their cures, by the operation of the clergy residence act, passed last session.
Sir Robert Buxtonexpressed his opinion, that this was a business which deserved the most serious attention of the house. Nobody, said the honourable baronet, can feel more than I do, the inconveniencies to which that valuable body of men, the stipendiary curates, may for a time be subjected, if no relief can be granted them by the legislature. But whilst I look on this side, of the question, and admit the expediency of affording relief to these men, who must otherwise labour under considerable difficulties, I ought not to neglect to glance a little at the other side, and observe the circumstances that form more than a counter-balance to the necessities of the curates, and that is the necessities of the country. In the present situation of the country, so burthened with taxes, to support the arduous contest in which we are engaged, nothing can excuse a compliance with an application of this sort, but the most absolute necessity. In the present instance, I am by no means satisfied, that such a necessity does exist. The clergy, who before kept curates, but who are now compelled to reside on their livings, may very well spare a maintenance for those who were in the habit of performing the duty of their functions, until another provision shall occur. The clergy are certainly able to afford this expense, as it is notorious, that the value of their livings have of late received a very ample increase. These few observations, I have thought it my duty to throw out at present; at the same time pledging myself, that whenever any subject of expenditure, that is not indispensably necessary, does come before the house in the present circumstances of the country, I shall uniformly and strenuously object to it.
The Chancellor of the Exchequeragreed, that nothing could be more commendable than the cautious jealousy expressed by the hon. baronet, respecting the application of the public money. He was anxious, however, that the house should rightly understand the object of the present motion. It was merely meant to do away an informality which has crept into a similar bill, brought forward last session, even after the commencement of
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hostilities, and which passed through all its stages in that house, without having met with one dissentient voice. When the bill for enforcing the residence of the clergy, was under consideration last session, it was generally acknowledged, that its operation must press hard upon a certain description of curates, who might be reduced, both themselves and their families, to great distress, by the passing of that bill. It was not then, neither is it now, intended) to make full and general compensation to all of that description, who may be deprived of their cures; but merely to rescue from the most ruinous indigence, many meritorious curates, who may be more particularly injured by the non-residence bill. He was as sensible as any gentleman could be, of the propriety of observing a system of rigid economy; but he was as equally satisfied, that the house would not wish that any system of that nature should stand in the way of the generosity, he had almost said the justice, which certain individuals, under certain circumstances, might have to expect at their hands, The house would, no doubt, the more incline to that opinion, when they understood that the sum to be proposed, for answering this object, was not to exceed 8,000 l. and that that sum, small as it was, would be under the restrictions imposed by a bill which had already received the unanimous approbation of the house. He had only to repeat, that the object of the bill went merely to procure a temporary relief for indigent curates, and that the amount of that relief was not to exceed 8,000 l.—The house having agreed to the motion, the right hon. gent, moved, "that a sum not exceeding 8,000 l. be granted for the relief of such curates as should be deprived of their cures in consequence of the bill compelling the residence of the incumbents." This motion was agreed to, and the resolution immediately reported.

EXCHESUER BILLS.—
The Chancellor of the Exchequer,in a committee of ways and means, drew the attention of the committee to the notice which he had given yesterday, of his intention to move this day, for leave to issue exchequer bills to the amount of five million. He stated, that he had a satisfaction in mentioning, what he had no doubt the committee would feel a pleasure in hearing, that this motion, if agreed to, was the only application that would be made, for any supply, until a very advanced period of the session. He had also to observe with pleasure, that all the outstanding bills of 1802 were now paid off and that those only were in circulation, that were issued on the credit

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of the services of 1803, 4,500,000 l. of which remained to be paid off. If the committee acceded to the present motion, there would also be an opportunity for the issue of new exchequer bills, for which there was now a considerable demand. So much would consequently be taken from the supply of the year; but the whole of what he now moved for would be necessary for the public service, till the advanced period of the session, when the whole of the supply was voted, if particular information was called for on any of these points, he should be ready to give every explanation in his power. He concluded by moving, "that the sum of five millions be raised by loan on exchequer bills, for the service of the year 1804." This motion being agreed to, the house resumed, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.

SUSPENSION OF HABEAS CORPUS ACT IN IRELAND.—
Mr. Secretary Yorke.I rise, Sir, in consequence of a notice which I gave a few days ago, for leave to bring in two bills to continue two acts; the one for suspending the Habeas Corpus Act, and the other for the re-enactment of Martial Law in Ireland. The house may be assured, that it is with the sincerest regret for the circumstances which render this measure necessary, that I now come forward to perform this painful duty. I am sorry to be obliged to propose any measure that may trench upon the liberies of the subject, or any of those blessings which this country justly values at so high a rate. But, Sir, it is the misfortune of the times in which we are destined to live, that we are not permitted to enjoy our lives, our liberties, or our possessions, without being daily called upon to sacrifice some part of our privileges in order to preserve the remainder, to sacrifice the best blood of the country in support of the contest in which we are engaged, and to abridge our liberties in order to preserve the existence of liberty itself. But this is no more than our ancestors often thought proper to do. There exists, however, this lamentable difference, that the periods during which it was necessary to resort to measures of this sort, were extremely short with them; but we can never rest in complete security, nor think either our privileges or our lives in safety, while France, after spreading devastation and death over her tributaries on the continent, looks with malignant envy on the happy spot, and longs to extend her fiend-like fangs to crush us also, and level us
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with the lowest of her slaves. It will be needless for me to state more particularly than I have done, the object of these bills. It will be recollected that they passed towards the conclusion of last session, inconsequence of a message from his Majesty, stating the insurrection that had broken out in the city of Dublin, and the atrocious circumstances with which it was attended. The house very properly passed those acts without any hesitation; when passed, they gave confidence to the loyal inhabitants of Ireland, and enabled them to suppress the rebelion with celerity. The particular circumstances which gave rise to and accompanied that most unhappy transaction, has now been developed by the trials of several of the leaders and their adherents, before the ordinary courts of judicature, and according to the ordinary forms of law. The proceedings on these occasions have been published, and to them I refer the house fur information whereon to found their judgment, as to the nature and extent of the conspiracy, as well as to the expediency of the present motion. Exclusive of the information contained in these trials, his Majesty's government are in possession of other facts, which the house must feel it would be highly improper to attempt to detail at the present moment. I may, however, be permitted to state, that notwithstanding the declaration of one of them (Emmett), I have every reason to believe, that the leaders of that insurrection were connected with persons residing in France, and those persons, traitors, immediately connected with the French government, if the conspirators were not immediately connected with it themselves. It is also clear, that some of the traitors who were in France, came over to Ireland for the purpose of exciting rebellion, and that they calculated upon the renewal of hostilities between this country and France, and chose that moment for exciting rebellion, as the most favourable crisis for patting in execution their nefarious designs. It is, indeed, clear, from all that has come to the knowledge of government, that the great object of the French government was to foster and increase treason and rebellion in Ireland, with a hope of distracting and dividing the British empire, and finally leading to the subversion of the country: but the perfidy of the enemy was defeated, and his hope was vain. With respect to the events of the 23d of July, the details are before the public, and it is I not necessary to enlarge upon then. The

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horrid tale is known; and, perhaps, in all the history of violence, madness, and folly which the world ever presented; there never existed treason more foul, an insurrection more unprovoked, leaders more contemptible, assassination more atrocious, or crimes more horrible.—What followed is extremely well known: most of the leaders have been brought to justice before the ordinary tribunals, which these miscreants wished to put an end to, and exterminate; as evidently appears by their horrible as-assination of one of the brightest ornaments of those tribunals. I hope my right hon. friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) will shortly have it in command from his Majesty, to lay the situation of the family of the much respected, and much lamented nobleman to whom I have alluded (Kihvarden), before the house.—Sir, it becomes my duty to propose the continuance of the acts in question, and I hope that, as far as concerns the manner in which these acts have been made use of, there will be no objection. All the criminals have, notwithstanding the powers vested in the Irish government, been tried in the ordinary form, except in one solitary instance, where a person who endeavoured to seduce a soldier from his allegiance, was justly and properly tried by martial law. Of the necessity for these measures no man can entertain a doubt, who has taken any trouble to make himself acquainted with the state of Ireland, or who is at all aware of the views of the French government, with whom it has been a long favoured plan to attack the empire on the side of Ireland. The enemy is aware that it is only by dividing and diverting the strength of this country, that she cm insure success; for united, the British empire single handed, is more than a match for all France. Provided parliament and government be on their guard, there is little reason to fear either foreign or domestic enemies. As to the latter, indeed, I am persuaded there are few, very few now to be found in this country. I regret that there are more in Ireland, although their numbers are greatly diminished. But let their numbers be great or small, they must be met with firmness and resolution. They must be made sensible that this house will never compromise with traitors, nor suffer them to clothe themselves with the whole armour of the law, whilst they are secretly attacking the government, and the senate, and all loyal subjects, with the concealed weapons of assassination,—I therefore move, Sir, "that
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leave be given to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the suspension of the Habeas Corpus act in Ireland."
The Hon. C. Hely Hutchinson.—With most of the sentiments expressed by die right hon. gent, who has just sat down, I rise to declare my perfect concurrence; and I am happy to feel justified in assuring the house, that the conduct of the government of Ireland since the insurrection, meets with my entire approbation. Their firmness and humanity; their activity and attention, entitles them to the utmost praise. They have in a great measure pursued that line of policy, which the wise and just would always recommend to be observed towards Ireland. Their temper and lenity have tended to cultivate the good opinion of the people; which was precisely the course, which, at the close of the last session of parliament, I had entreated should be adopted; an exhortation by the bye, which seemed to have been much misconceived; and for offering which, I became the subject of severe and unmerited censures, from particular quarters: several paragraphs (I should be ashamed to suppose from authority) were inserted in some of the Dublin papers, and also in those of this city, tending to decry the individual who had attempted to call the attention of parliament to the affairs of Ireland. I was quite unconscious, on that occasion, of having given any provocation to the friends of the noble earl, at the head of the government of that country. Such was not my object; as it was, and is, matter of indifference to me, by whom the offices of state are filled, provided government be well administered: in the mode of that administration I am, so far as relates to Ireland, particularly, interested. Connected to her by all the sacred ties which can bind an individual to his country, strengthened by a respect for the talents, a regard for the virtues, and a warm sympathy in the wishes of its inhabitants: eager as I feel for their welfare, rejoicing in their prosperity, and participating in their afflictions, I cannot but sincerely lament the necessity which ministers feel themselves under, for again resorting to parliament, for the measures now proposed. But, that under the present circumstances of that unhappy country, it is advisable thus to strengthen the hands of the executive, I cannot entertain a doubt: and I feel the less reluctance in again entrusting the Irish government with these extraordinary powers, when I reflect upon the moderation and lenity with which they have hi-

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therto been exerted: and having on a former occasion expressed my regret, that the conciliating conduct, and uniform attentions of Lord Hardwicke and his family to the people of Ireland, had not been met by that co-operation of legislative exertion, which I for one had anxiously recommended, I cannot but lament, that this my avowed opinion, should have been either totally suppressed, or perverted.—I trust, I shall not, in the few observations I am about to make, subject myself to the imputation of wishing improperly to obtrude the; discussion of the state of Ireland. Of misrepresentation alone do I feel the least apprehension: on a very late occasion, I had an opportunity of adverting to the situation of that country, I mean when the motion was under consideration for an address to his Majesty, but I abstained from any comment upon the speech from the throne, not wishing to disturb the unanimity, or damp the zeal which prevailed in the house; and because I felt, that at such a period, when attacked by the most inveterate enemy, and the most ambitious government, this country ever had Jo encounter, no man of loyalty, or of understanding, should hesitate to declare his resolution, unburthened by conditions and unalloyed by expressions of discontent, to support hi" Majesty in the prosecution of a war, in which, in my humble judgment, his empire is necessarily engaged. I was sincerely glad to hear from my Sovereign on the day to which I have alluded, that rebellion had been put down in Ireland, and that the public tranquillity had suffered no farther interruption; and I sincerely joined in the hope, that "such of his deluded subjects as had swerved from their allegiance, had been convinced of their error, and that upon a comparison of the advantages they derive under a free constitution, with the situation of those countries that have fallen under the yoke of the government of France, they will not hesitate to co-operate with his Majesty, in zealously resisting every attack which may be made upon the security and independence of the united kingdom." Of this "fair return to loyalty," I could entertain little doubt, were they fully acquainted with the miseries accumulated, on the unfortunate nations who have been forced to wear the galling chains of the republican despot. But I may be suffered, I trust, to hope, that by that passage in his Majesty's speech, ministers do not mean to hold out an opinion, that because the situation of Ireland may be preferable to that of those countries, pillaged and enslaved by France, that, therefore, it does not require
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any improvement. What, I would ask, can the minister mean by this comparison?—Is I it that because Ireland is less oppressed, less persecuted, that, therefore, its inhabitants should be compleatly reconciled to the conduct of the British government, and thoroughly satisfied with their condition? Is it possible that it can be seriously designed, from a consideration of the difference in degrees of human misery, to decline entering into the investigation of the affairs of re-land? If such be the purport of this insinuation, it cannot be too strongly condemned. Such a mode of reasoning could only be justified on the prepostetous supposition, that nations should be happy and contented, as long as they see others more wretched than themselves; and it is something new in the history of this country to derive, an argument against any project for ameliorating the condition of its people, from a comparison with the state of other countries, and particularly with such as are subjected to arbitrary government. Would the Irish in 1782 when demanding in the bold tone of freedom, and the irresistible language of reason, the establishment of their rights, have tamely listened to any objection to their claims drawn from a reference to the comparative depression and poverty of their situation but a few years before?—Would the haughty barons of England, who in the 13th century so nobly con ended for that charter which forms the basis of British liberty, have consented to have withdrawn their pretensions, and abandoned their claims, had they been reminded, that their situation was still preferable to that of the barons of France, and of the other neighbouring states? No; they would have indignantly spurned at those, who should have presumed to influence them by such a consideration and have redoubled their energies for the attainment of their objects. But, to refer to a more modern, and a still more glorious epoch of your history, would those illustrious characters of 1688, who accomplished the ever memorable revolution of that day, which at length clearly ascertained the rights, and irrevocably established the independence and happiness of this realm, would, I ask, an artifice so shallow, a comparison "o insulting, have induced them to have been false to their country, to themselves, and to you? If the comparison to which I have alluded, be urged for the purpose of communicating to the people of Ireland, that they have to change in their condition to expect, I cannot refrain from declaring that I fear it will be productive of the worst consequence

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and should be inclined to attribute it to the I extreme of folly or of wickedness.—I do tell the light hon. gent, on the treasury bf rich, that he cannot confidently reckon on the warm and effectual support of the empire in this great struggle, unless he be just to the people.—It was with no small degree of regret, I understood him to have declared, that "he was not aware of the probability "under the present circumstances of any "discussion upon the situation of Ireland "being attended with any other than the "most dangerous consequences." If it be meant by this observation, that the consideration of these subjects should be postponed till after the conclusion of the war, I assert, that such an idea is an insult to the magnanimity and good sense of parliament.—What I shall it be said that at a time, when all the. strength which the empire is capable of affording may be necessary, that one important part, known to be diseased, shall be left without care or remedy, and suffered to go on decaying until, become rotten, it be irrecoverably lost? Good God! at a crisis the most awful, in a contest the most tremendous in which this country ever was engaged, likely to be terminated only by the downfall of one of the contending powers, a contest for which we require all the strength and power which unanimity only can afford, at such a moment, to hesitate in adopting a system of conciliation is monstrous!!! Will it be objected that a time of war is unseasonable for the discussion of this important subject: upon what ground?—That there are grievances, and heavy ones too, under which the. greater part of the Irish people labour, is not, cannot be disputed: this being admitted, it is unjust to procrastinate the redress of them till the issue of the present contest; for aught we know, to an indefinite period, and that too, without any pledge or hope that even after the termination of the war, the government would be disposed to make concessions or afford relief.—As to the policy of neglecting the state of Ireland during the war, I shall say that it becomes highly criminal, when the right hon. secretary has this moment declared that the British Empire, provided it were united, might single-handed, defy the threats with which we are now insulted, and that so convinced of this was the enemy, that he was labouring incessantly to divide us, and to create a party in the empire. Could any stronger argument than this be advanced by me, or those who think with me on the necessity of redressing the grievances of the Irish people as soon, as possible? I am of the same
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opinion with the right hon. gent., that Buonaparté and his agents are sowing discord, and fomenting the passions of that people in order to distract, divide, and weaken our forces, as well as to embarrass his Majesty's councils.—Taking this for granted, what shadow of objection can be made against the introduction and discussion of a measure, the object and result of which is to detach from die enemy, those on whose assistance he may rely. No motive, no reasonable cause of discontent ought to be left, on which he may attempt to act.—Here again I must declare, that no system of government however defective, no complaint however founded, can justify the subject at this hour of general danger, when his country, his religion, his laws, and liberties are attacked, in refusing his cordial support to repel the common enemy.—But, with respect to this cant about the time and circumstances proper for a full enquiry into the state of Ireland, I should be glad to know when such circumstances are likely to arise in the estimation of ministers, for, from their conduct heretofore, it seems impossible to calculate; they have been ministers during peace, and during war, during rebellion and after rebellion has been put down. They have in fact, been nearly three years in power, and have gone through every variety of change and circumstance, and yet, to them, the time for considering the means of improving the condition of Ireland, has never yet arrived; for by them, every season has been deemed improper for the redress of its grievances, and of course under their auspices, the beneficial conseces promised by the advocates of the union, cannot be looked for. On the part of the Irish I complain, that the minister of that day urged as a motive for hurrying on that measure, that the subject of the grievances of Ireland would be brought where it could be discussed with temper, liberality, and wisdom; but, no sooner Was it brought to this side of the water, than it was discovered that it ought not to be brought forward, and for the very same reason, namely, that it would agitate the country and produce the most mischievous consequences.—I big the house to understand that the condition of that people cannot be ameliorated by one, two, or three measures, but by a great and comprehensive system, the result of a fair, and full view of the whole question; adapted to the wants, and calculated to have a permanent operation on the interests of the country. In giving my support to the bills before the house, I confess my disposition to do so, is considerably damped, by observing that mi-

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nisters manifest no inclination to take such steps as can alone prevent the recurrence of that calamity, against which, these bills are intended to guard, namely by sifting the state of Ireland to the bottom, by deliberating upon it, week after week, and session after session.—I cannot help indulging an ardent hope, from what passed on the first day of this session, that this delicate and important question, will soon be taken up by that great character (Mr. Fox) the enlightened champion of the happiness and independence of mankind, the benevolence of whose heart is as entensive as the views and energies of his mind.—I feel deeply impressed by the liberal indulgence I have experienced from the house, on whose patience I have too much trespassed, but when the affairs of Ireland are agitated, I cannot induce myself to remain silent.
General Loftus.—I rise, Sir, to give my most perfect support to the measures intended to be brought forward by the right hon. Secretary. They are certainly strong measures, but they are the only ones that will give security to he loyal inhabitants of Ireland. I have listened with great satisfaction to the early part of the speech of the hon. gent, who has just sat down (Col. Hutchinson), because I know there is one part of Ireland in which the opinion of 'hat hon. gent, will have considerable weight. As to the question to which the hon. gent, afterwards alluded, I think that a time of war is not the proper period for the discussion of it, or of any question tending to interfere with the constitution. I felt it my duty to say thus much, and I shall sit down with giving my cordial support to the motion.
Mr. Hawthorn.—I shall support the motion, Sir, because, from the observations which I had an opportunity of making during the summer, I am convinced that the measures proposed are necessary for the security of the country. It is of considerable consequence to give strength to his Majesty's government in Ireland, to enable them to meet and put down the efforts of treason and rebellion with vigour and effect. His Majesty, in his gracious speech from the throne, has acquainted the house that the principal actors in the late atrocious insurrection have been brought to justice, and that the deluded multitude are returning to a sense of their duty; it is, therefore, essential to give such powers to his government in that country as will enable them to maintain the tranquillity so happily restored. Besides, the manner in which the Irish government have used the extraordinary pow-
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ers given in the last session, is the best security that the same powers will not be abused in the present instance. No gentleman. I am sure, will object to the motion of the right hon. Secretary, if he calls to mind the manner in which the rebellion was; conducted up to its breaking out, the circumstances of atrocity with which it was then carried on, the manner in which it was put down, and the effect that the first burst of it had on the public mind. The conduct of the Irish government has been characterised by humanity and mildness. Its great object has been to pass over the circumstances of former insurrections, and to extend the benefit of the ordinary course of justice to the guilty, and that, too, at a time when traitors had returned from France, for the purpose of exciting rebellion in the country. I am, therefore, of the opinion, that the proposed measures are necessary for maintaining tranquillity. As to the other topic which has been adverted to on the first day of the session, as well as on the present occasion, I have ever entertained but one, and only one opinion, and that is, that something should be done, but I do not consider this the proper time for entering upon the question.
Lord Templesaid, that he was not unwilling to give his consent to the motion, trusting in the assertion of the right hon. gent (Mr. Yorke), that the necessity actually existed for the renewal of an act which in its preamble stated "the spirit of rebellion and insurrection to be now actually raging in Ireland." His hon. friend, (Gen. Loftus) had said, that a time of war and of danger was not the moment for entering into any question affecting the constitution of Ireland. He begged leave to recall to the memory of his hon. friend, and of his Majesty's ministers, (he was sure it was unnecessary to recall it to the memory of his noble friend, Lord Castlereagh, opposite to him) that during a period of war and a moment of danger very nearly equal to that which now threatens the country, the House of Commons had passed a measure of no less importance than the Act of Union.
Lord Archibald Hamiltoncould not help feeling some surprise, that any doubt could exist as to the propriety of the time for improving the condition of so important a member of the empire. He meant, however, to make only a few observations on the subject of the motion. To ascertain the situation of that part of the empire it was scarcely necessary to advert to the situation of its capital, in which every inhabitant was obliged to place a list of all

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the inmates of his house on his door. In such circumstances there could scarcely a doubt exist of the propriety of making some efforts to establish the tranquillity of the country upon some solid and per ma meat grounds. It had been said that this was not the proper time; but the noble lord would ask, what would be a better time? Were we now going on well, or was the country well? This was a crisis when the exertions of every individual in the empire were necessary, for the defence and security of the empire. He contended it was the most proper time to resort to measures that would have the effect of removing every source of complaint, and of uniting every arm in the common cause. His lordship wished to be informed, whether his Majesty's ministers had any specific plan in contemplation for that purpose. There seemed to be but one sentiment in the house with respect to the necessity of uniting heart and hand in the present arduous crisis. He, therefore, again called upon his Majesty's ministers to declare, whether they meant to bring forward any measure but those which had hitherto been pursued in that country. From every thing that had come to his knowledge on that subject, through persons from local information acquainted with it, he thought a different system indispensable, and he drought it the duty of his Majesty's ministers to adopt it. If, however, they should think proper to abandon the interests of that part of the united kingdom, he was of opinion that, in such a case it would be perfectly competent to any individual in the house to bring the question before Parliament.
Mr. Burrowsdesired to be informed whether the notice of the right hon. Secretary, comprehended both the bills intended to be continued?
The Speakerinformed the hon. member, that the motion before the house related only to that for allowing the suspension of the habeas corpus act, for a time to be limited, and that when that should be disposed of, the motion on the other would be put.
Mr. Burrowsthen rose to state his reason, for putting the question. He was willing to give his ready and perfect concurrence to the first proposition, but on the other question he was disposed to think that some time ought to be allowed before it should be carried into effect. This opinion he entertained not from any concurrence with the observations that had been made this night, or on a former night, tending to shew that the present government of Ire-
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land was not such as it ought to be, or that affairs were not well nor properly administered in that country; for he was convinced that no system of government was ever better calculated to conciliate the affections of the people, than that now pursued in Ireland. But having said this, he trusted no attempt would be made to bring forward the other law, at least for some time, and particularly as it had not been found necessary in the numerous trials which had already taken place to resort to its provisions, or try any of the culprits by martial law. He hoped, therefore, that the law should not be renewed while Parliament should continue sitting, in order that the people might be impressed with the idea that Parliament, at the same time that it entertained a fixed determination to exterminate rebellion, was wilting to respect the civil rights of the people. The hon. gent. concluded by giving his support to the motion.
Lord Castlereaghrose to offer a few observations in reply to the last speaker. He was happy to find that the hon. gent. had nothing to urge against the character of those who were to be invested with the discretionary power granted by the bill for continuing the use of martial law in Ireland, under such circumstances as might be judged expedient. The hon. gent, had, however, contended that such a bill had never been passed except where strong proofs of its necessity were produced For his own part he would venture to assert, and he would defy any gentleman to disprove his observation, that no measure had so materially contributed to prevent the mischief originating from the rebellion from extending itself, as the very measure which was now made the ground of objection. A great body of loyally had existed in Ireland, during the period that one of the most extensive and most malignant rebellions raged in that country which it was ever the fate of a government to encounter. By the exertions of this assemblage of loyal subjects, that rebellion had been suppressed, and the constitution had been saved from destruction. He must, however, be permitted to say, that it was not till the measure in question had been adopted, that the loyal part of the community were able to feel and to employ their strength. It was not till government was armed with the extraordinary powers with which the measure vested them, that rebellion was attacked in its strong holds and effectually subdued. These were the effects of the measure in putting an end to the rebellion in 1798,

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and the continuance of the measure at different periods since that rebellion, had operated consequences no less beneficial. The late mad attempt at rebellion, shewed how much improved the state of the country was, and he had no difficulty in ascribing to the operation of the measure which the hon. member had objected to, that vast augmentation of loyalty which had been obtained during the interval which had taken place betwixt the rebellion of 1798 and the late attempt of a handful of deluded and desperate individuals. The experience of past consequences was the strongest inducement to renew the measure at the present moment. The use that hi d been made of the measure, was a wise reason for again resorting to it. Though the government was vested with extraordinary powers, there was no reason to be apprehensive that they would be wantonly employed. The circumstance of government being vested with these powers, was the means of enabling them to resort only to the civil tribunals of the country. The civil tribunals, notwithstanding the existence of these powers, had been appealed to, and the result had been equally honourable to the laws and to the individuals to whom the extraordinary powers were delegated. This ought, in his opinion, to operate as an additional inducement to grant extraordinary powers, when it was ascertained that they were not in any instance abused, when discretion was employed, not in suspending, but in encouraging the operation of ordinary tribunals of justice. The great principle which a wise legislature wished to act upon, was a principle of precaution. Its object was to prevent, and not punish crimes after they were perpetrated. It might be argued, that there was at present nothing in the situation of Ireland to justify a measure which went to the suspension of the ordinary privileges of the constitution. The recent attempt at rebellion had not surely escaped the notice of gentlemen, and it could not in fairness be pretended that tranquillity could be so soon restored as to supersede the necessity of a measure, the beneficial effects of which had been so signally experienced. By the timely interference of the legislature, a great deal of detailed misery which had formerly afflicted the loyal part of the community, had been avoided. For every man who was acquainted with the situation of Ireland knew, that such scenes of detailed misery could not have been prevented unless government had been armed with the powers adequate to the nature of the circumstances in which the country was placed. On the
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principle that it was wise on the first appearance of the late rebellion to arm government with these powers, he would contend that it was equally wise at the present moment. It would not be denied, that among those deluded individuals who constituted the remains of the rebellion, every effort would be made to interrupt the continuance of tranquillity, more particularly when they were encouraged by the expectation of deriving foreign aid from the enemy holding out threats of immediate invasion. It was therefore to these individuals themselves, an act not of severity but of mercy, to continue the operation of the measure in question. It was necessary by vesting government with these extraordinary powers, to convince them that perseverance in their treasonable designs was hopeless, before they could be induced to return to the habits of peaceable allegiance. When they found that they could not take a single step without being watched; when they saw that their pursuits could be blasted in a moment; when they perceived that government possessed the means of instant and signal punishment, it might be reasonably supposed that they would he induced to abandon pursuits evidently leading to inevitable ruin. It was barely an act of justice to make them take up such a view of their conduct and situation. The idea of rebellion ought to be banished from their thoughts by shewing them that it was a project altogether impracticable. On every consideration of experience, of policy, of justice, and of mercy, he was decidedly for re-enacting the bill. He trusted that the hon. gent, would not be inclined to persist in his opposition, or contend that at least the re-enactment of the bill ought to be deferred. Nothing appeared to him so likely to encourage the loyal part of the community, which had such powerful claims to support. Nothing could so effectually discourage the designs or extinguish the hopes of the disaffected. It was necessary to let the disaffected see that the government possessed the confidence of the legislature, and that they would receive whatever support the exigencies of affairs required. To refuse to invest government with powers which there was no danger of seeing in any instance employed with harshness, would elate the spirits of the deluded victims of rebellion, while it would paralyse the exertions and augment the fears of those firm and patriotic friends of the constitution whom it was the duty of Parliament to support by every possible extension of liberal provision. The noble lord concluded by giving has decided

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support to the motion.—Leave was granted to bring in the bill. It was accordingly brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.

MARTIAL LAW IN IRELAND.—
Mr. Secretary Yorkenext moved, for leave to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the bill of last session, for the Suppression of Rebellion in Ireland, by enabling government to establish martial law. On the motion being put from the chair,
Mr. Burrowsrose to express his reasons for opposing the motion. He begged it to be understood that he did not found his objections to it from any want of confidence in those who were to exercise the powers to be granted by the bill. On the contrary, he had the most entire confidence that these powers would in no instance be abused, either by the government of Ireland or the government of this country. His objection was founded on constitutional grounds. He was convinced that it must be a principle with every man who loved the constitution, never to give his assent to a bill conferring such extraordinary powers, without the most urgent and imperious necessity. Acting on this principle, he could not, on the ground of confidence in government, consent to violate the constitution, unless the necessity of such violation was clearly established. When this bill was formerly passed, a rebellion actually raged in Ireland, and ample documents to prove its necessity were laid on the table of the house. At present KO sort of evidence to prove its necessity was brought forward. Had any parliamentary evidence been adduced? Were any facts stated to shew that the re-enactment of the bill was essential to the maintenance of tranquillity in Ireland? Had the house obtained even the bare responsibility of a minister on the subject? Not one of these grounds of the necessity of the measure had been brought before the house. Independant of all information, Members were called on to give their assent to a measure which confessedly violated the free principles of the British constitution. When any description of subjects were to be deprived of a constitutional privilege, it was necessary to proceed with coolness and deliberation. Even while rebellion raged in Ireland he had not heard of resorting to martial law, and suspending all appeal to the civil tribunals, without a considerable portion of anxiety and alarm. But what he desired the house to consider, were the specific grounds on
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which the introduction of martial law was defended. It was on this principle, that jurors were over-awed in the discharge of their duty, and that witnesses could not come forward to give their testimony without great personal danger. It was because the ordinary tribunals of justice were necessarily shut up, from the causes which he had now stated, that it became necessary to have recourse to military decisions. If the same circumstances now existed, he should, however reluctant to violate the constitution, give his assent to the motion. No such circumstances did, however, exist at this period. Jurors could discharge their duty with the utmost safety. Witnesses could come forward to give their testimony without any apprehension of danger. Persons guilty of rebellion had been arraigned before the ordinary tribunals of justice, had been convicted on the clearest evidence, and had suffered the sentence of the law. If the grounds on which martial law was formerly resorted to did not exist, it was not surely asking too much to require some new grounds for re-enacting a bill vesting the executive government with extraordinary and unconstitutional powers. It certainly was not too much to ask, that if new grounds did exist they should be stated. To assent to a bill of this kind without any grounds was what he never could, under any circumstances, do, acting as a representative to parliament. If the hon. sec. of state was determined to persist in pressing the bill, it was at least fair that he should not precipitate its progress through the house. It would be fair to allow those gentlemen who were more particularly connected with Ireland an opportunity of offering their sentiments on the subject. The number of Irish members now in their place was very inconsiderable, and they had a right to be consulted before the constitutional privileges of their constituents were suspended or violated. He had thought it his duty to throw out these few observations to the house. Before he sat down, he begged leave to repeat, he did not oppose the re-enactment of the bill from any want of confidence in the mode in which it would be applied by ministers. He had no doubt that their application of the powers with which it vested them would be mild and merciful. His objections were, however, founded in respect for the constitution, and the character of the government, and should not induce him to vote for a bill, of the necessity for which not the slightest evidence had been adduced.
Mr. Corryrose to make a few observations

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in reply. The hon. gent, had said, that in all former cases of the passing of the martial law bill, rebellion actually raged, or tranquillity was very seriously disturbed. He begged leave to set the hon. member right on that head. In the year 1801, this very bill had been not only once but twice renewed in the coarse of the same session, though at that time no rebellion or appearance of rebellion existed from one part of Ireland to another. The hon. gent. seemed to be unacquainted with the history of the rebellion. He did not appear to be aware that the machinations of the disaffected were at their origin carefully veiled in darkness; that their views were gradually disseminated over the country; that it was not till their party was fully organized that they broke out into acts of open rebellion. The wisdom of parliament had been exerted in a number of acts to discover and to disconcert their views. Every effort had been employed to trace out the different relations and bearings of the conspiracy. These efforts had, however, failed of success. Never till the act in question was passed were the designs of rebellion fully ascertained. Never till government was armed with these extraordinary powers was any thing like tranquillity or confidence restored. Though individuals continued to suffer; though acts or insurrection and violence were not altogether destroyed; yet the constitution was saved and the sinews of the rebellion were annihilated. This effect he ascribed, more than to any other cause, to the repeated re-enactments of this bill in the course of the year 1802 and 1803. The hon. gent, however, did not see the necessity of re-enacting the bill at the present period. He had said, that the grounds of its re-enactment formerly was the intimidation of jurors and witnesses in the performance of their duty, but at this moment jurors were unmolested; witnesses could give their testimony without any dread of the consequences; all the ordinary forms of law and of justice were observed. He would not pretend to deny that this description of the state of the country was correct, but he would maintain that the present tranquillity of the country was the effect of the very bill to which the hon. gent, so strongly objected. It was not unknown to the hon. member and the house, that till the bill was passed the system of intimidation was universally prevalent, and the courts of common law were as a matter of necessity shut, not against rebels alone, but against the loyal part of the community, who were
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making every sacrifice in support of the constitution and the existing government. It was not till the rebels found that they could not prosecute their schemes with any hopes of success, that the strong powers vested in the government rendered their detection and punishment a matter of almost absolute certainty, that continuance in rebellion was only another term for destruction, that they thought of abandoning their traitorous projects, that they sat down in laborious tranquillity, and began to return to the habits of dutiful allegiance. If the hon. member looked to the state of Ireland, merely as it was at this day, his view would be extremely partial and limited. To be able to reason fairly on the subject, it behoved him to look at the progress and various modifications of the rebellion. He ought to compare the means used to spread disaffection with the means employed to check its diffusion among the lower orders. Among these last means, he had the universal testimony of the best informed persons in Ireland, that this measure had been one of the greatest and efficient causes of the return of tranquillity and order, of the possibility of continuing the ordinary exercise of the form of the common law courts of the land. Independent of this measure, the hon. gent, would not this day have had it in his power to notice the present tranquillity of Ireland as an argument against the re-enactment of the bill. So far from viewing the re-enactment of the bill as any act of severity to the loyal and well-disposed part of the community, he viewed it in the opposite light. By all loyal arid well-disposed individuals, it would be considered as a measure not of oppression, but of protection: not of vigour, but of wise precaution, on the part of the government. It would dispel their apprehensions, and give them new energy in their opposition to the designs of the disaffected. It would enable them to check rebellion at its first opening, and leave to them the privilege of appending for the redress of injuries to the ordinary tribunals of their country. The proclamation of martial law, by the exercise of the prerogative was, what every friend to the constitution would be anxious to avoid. It was to avoid the necessity of such a measure, that the bill was originally introduced, and W3s now proposed to be continued. Without such a bill traitors might escape unpunished, and loyal citizens might be deprived of their constitutional privileges, and dragged before military tribunals. On these grounds the bill had his hearty support, and he hoped it would also obtain the support of the house. It was

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a bill which, from his knowledge of the present state of Ireland, he had no difficulty in pronouncing essential to the continuance of tranquillity.
Mr. John Claudius Beresfordbegged the indulgence of the house, while he made a few observations. His hon. friend under the gallery, (Mr. Burrows) had urged two objections to the re-enactment of the bill, at least, without more mature consideration. The first objection was, that no facts were produced to justify the necessity of the measure. The second objection was drawn from the thinness of the members particularly connected with Ireland, and best fitted to give information to the house on the subject. With regard to the first objection, it was unnecessary for him to take up the time or attention of the house. His right hon. friend had fully removed this objection, and he heartily agreed with his right hon. friend, that if the measure were not renewed, the same system of terror, which had been alluded to, would immediately be renewed in ail its horrors. With regard to the thinness of the attendance of members connected with Ireland, he should make one or two remarks. Having been very recently in Ireland, and having had occasion to ascertain what were the sentiments of at least three-fourths of the Irish members resident in that country, as to the expediency and necessity of the measure, he requested the house, on his veracity, to be assured, that they were to a man convinced, that the re-enactment of the bill was indispensably necessary to the preservation of tranquillity, and to the protection of all loyal subjects. They were so thoroughly convinced of its necessity, that they expected the re-enactment of the bill would be one of the earliest acts of the session. If they had not indulged such an expectation, they would, at this moment, have been in their places to solicit its re-enactment. This sentiment, of the necessity of the measure, he might add, was not confined to members, but was entertained by every loyal man in every part of the country. He, himself, had been the only Irish member, who had expressed doubts respecting the loyalty of the lower orders, in opposition to the opinion of a number of other most respectable individuals. He rejoiced to find, that the opinion he entertained of the disloyalty of the lower orders was erroneous, and that the spirit of disaffection was much less general than he had dreaded. At this moment all good men of every party were animated with feelings of loyalty, and convinced of the necessity of defending the country against the common enemy. Every man who possessed only 201
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a year, was now disposed to unite against all foreign and domestic foes. The late insurrection had not a twentieth part of the extent of the rebellion of 1798; and all classes of the people, with an exception of a few of the lower orders, were universally disposed to assist government against an invading enemy.—He was also authorized to state, that it was the wish of all sects in that kingdom, that no question should be brought forward, which might have the effect of agitating the public mind, at a period, when it was so essential, that all descriptions should unite in the defence of their common interests.—Leave was obtained to bring in the bill; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday.

IRISH BANK RESTRICTION BILL.—
Mr. Carry,pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a bill to continue, for a time to be limited, the restriction on the issues of cash by the bank of Ireland. It was unnecessary for him to urge any reasons to induce the house to agree to his motion. The same motives that induced the house to entertain the bill with respect to the Bank of England, applied to the present case, and as the measure, he proposed, was always consequential to that which had been introduced within a few days by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he should content himself barely with moving, that leave be given. Leave was given.—Mr. Corry then moved, that there be laid before the house, an account of the amount, of bank of Ireland notes, including bank post bills, payable at seven days sight, in circulation on the first days of January, April, June, and September, 1800; also, amount in circulation on the first days of April, May, and June, 1801; also, amount in circulation on the first days of June, August, October, and November, 1802, and first of February, 1803; also, amount in circulation on the first days of January, April, August, and September, 1803; distinguishing, in this last instance, the value of those below the value of five guineas. Ordered.

Preamble
[MINUTES.]—
On the motion of the Duke of Norfolk, the Zouch peerage was ordered to be taken into further consideration on the first Tuesday in February.—On the motion, of Lord Walsingham, the Rous peerage was ordered to be taken into consideration on the third Tuesday in the same month.

PAROCHIAL CLERGY.—
The Duke of Norfolkgave notice, that it was his intention to submit to the consideration of the house, a bill for preventing the arrest of parochial clergymen, while actually engaged in the duties of their respective cures: a bill, for their relief, had been introduced in that house last session, but had not been entertained, on the idea that it was to be esteemed, a money bill. Such a bill, however, was now pending in the other house, and he

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Should avail himself of the opportunity, when that bill came to be considered by their lordships, to introduce one to the effect he had mentioned. Adjourned till Monday.