COUNTY ELECTIONS POLLS BILL. (Hansard, 17 March 1853)

§ The EARL of CARLISLE
moved that this Bill be read 3^a.

The MARQUESS of SALISBURY
complained that the noble Earl had not made any statement of the grounds upon which this Bill was founded. He (the Marquess of Salisbury) thought that the Bill made very unnecessary and inconvenient alterations in the present system. The size of some counties was such, that it would be found impracticable to poll all the voters in a single day, at least without some concurrent alterations. It would be absolutely necessary to create new polling places, in order to enable the electors to record their votes with safety and convenience, and to enable the poll clerks to take correctly the state of the poll. The method also of taking the poll required to be simplified, and he would suggest to the noble Earl that a clause should be inserted in the Bill 287 for the purpose of altering the present mode of polling. He would himself propose clauses to that effect as a rider to the Bill, after the third reading.

§ The EARL of CARLISLE
said, he would briefly state what were the grounds for the introduction of this Bill into Parliament, which, however, appeared to him to be very obvious. By the present law the time allowed for electing Members for towns and boroughs was one day only, but for the election of Members for counties two days were allowed. Now, it had been found by experience that the only effect of giving a second day for county elections was to impose additional expense on the candidates. It was also found that on the second day, especially when there was a severe contest and much excitement, there was a disposition on the part of the populace to have recourse to riotous proceedings, to acts of bribery, and other discreditable practices. The noble Marquess appeared to apprehend that in some counties it would be impracticable to poll the whole body of the electors in a single day. Now, his noble Friend on the cross-benches (Lord Wharncliffe) and himself, could bear witness that this was a chimerical apprehension, for they had gone through three contests for the West Riding of Yorkshire, which had the largest constituency in England; and on the last occasion, when he was defeated by his noble Friend, they polled together upwards of 25,000 voters, and, so far from the result of the contest not being known till the second day, it was virtually known by the very middle of the first day. He and his noble Friend, therefore, could produce themselves as competent witnesses to prove that this objection of the noble Marquess was a chimerical objection. He had been informed that in the Tower Hamlets, where there was an immense number of voters, it had been found that all the votes could with the utmost ease be taken in one day; and that after the second or third hour the polling clerks were sitting comparatively idle—polling only a few votes in the hour. A system, therefore, which was calculated to afford so much convenience on the one side, and to cause so little inconvenience on the other, was thought by the House of Commons to be one which it was high time should be adopted both in boroughs and counties; and that the same rule, in regard to the period for polling, should be applied to both. The noble Marquess had proposed a plan to simplify the method of polling, and to make a different arrangement for 288 the polling places. He (the Earl of Carlisle) was not prepared to say that the suggestion of the noble Marquess was not proper to be adopted. He had no wish to contend against it; but it did not seem to come properly within the purview of the Bill; he thought it would be considered irregular to introduce into the present Bill an Amendment of another Act of Parliament to regulate and appoint new polling places for counties. As the noble Marquess had done him the honour to communicate his intentions beforehand, he had consulted the proper authorities on the subject, both in that and in the other House of Parliament; and from them he learnt the better way would be to introduce a short Bill to amend the law relating to the appointment of new polling places. The noble Marquess would therefore excuse him for opposing his proposition, and for calling upon their Lordships to allow the Bill to be read a third time as it now stood.

§ The EARL of DERBY
said, he should support the proposition of his noble Friend. He did not understand his noble Friend to make this proposition with the object of defeating the measure now before the House; but his noble Friend was rightly desirous of making provision that there should be a sufficiency of polling places, in order to guard against the inconvenience which would otherwise be felt from the attempt to poll a whole county in a single day. The noble Earl had said he was desirous of seeing counties and boroughs placed on the same footing as to the taking of polls; but he feared this would lead in practice to great inconvenience and confusion. Again, it would interfere with the present distribution of the franchise, since the change might have the effect of depriving those who now possessed votes in more than one county of the power of exercising their right, when the elections happened to be coincident. The object of his noble Friend and himself was one. He considered the principle of the Amendment decidedly beneficial to the operation of the Bill, when passed; but if the noble Earl said there were objections in point of form to the introduction of the proposed amendments, he should advise his noble Friend not to press a proposition which would be rejected by the other House. But there was certainly nothing hostile to the Bill in it, and it would even be necessary to make the measure work, according to the admission of the Government themselves.

§ LORD BATEMAN
apprehended it to be impossible that this measure should work 289 well in counties where there were no railroads.

§ LORD REDESDALE
intimated that circumstances had occurred which rendered it desirable to bring forward a measure in the present Session of Parliament with reference to this subject; he therefore did really hope that attention would be paid to the matter, so that it should be settled. The question was one on which counties had a right to expect that a Bill would be passed. With respect to the suggestion that the law as to polling places in counties should be put on the same footing with the law as to polling in towns, he should remind their Lordships that it was possible in a town to poll a certain number of votes without difficulty in a short time; but where electors had to travel many miles in going to a polling place, the question must be considered with reference not only to expense, but to time. In the one case, the parties who had to tender their votes were on the spot; in the other they were at a distance. He thought it the bounden duty of those who had charge of the Bill to take care that, so far as lay with them, no difficulties should arise to prevent its passing this Session.

§ The EARL of CARLISLE
said, he wished to guard himself against being supposed to express any opinion hostile to the proposition of the noble Marquess; but he would suggest that, though the Amendment which the noble Marquess proposed to introduce into this Bill might not be open to objection in point of form, yet it was for the consideration of the noble Marquess whether it was desirable to. press the Amendment, having regard to the objections which might be taken on the Bill being sent down as amended to the other House of Parliament. There were other collateral points for improving the present arrangements which might be introduced into a separate Bill, but which did not concern the object of the present Bill.

The MARQUESS of SALISBURY
apprehended, with great respect to the noble Earl, that the only objection which could be urged to the Amendment was, that if it were inserted, the House of Commons would not pass the measure. He (the Marquess of Salisbury) did not wish to hazard the loss of the Bill; but he had thought it necessary to state his opinion, as the matter was one of very serious importance. He would not, therefore, press his Amendment.