§ 3.21 p.m.
§ The Minister of State, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (Lord Rooker)My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.
§ Moved, That the House do now again resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Rooker.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
§ [The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES in the Chair.]
§ Clause 120 [Termination of management orders: financial arrangements]:
§ Lord Rooker moved Amendment No. 162:
§ Page 85, line 40, leave out from "reason" to end of line 42.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ [Amendment No. 163 not moved.]
§ Lord Rooker moved Amendments Nos. 164 to 166:
§ Page 86, leave out lines 9 and 10.
§ Page 86, line 27, at end insert—
§ "(5A) The provisions of any of subsections (2) to (5) do not, however, apply in relation to the order if —
- (a) the order is followed by a final management order, and
- (b) the management scheme contained in that final management order provides for that subsection not to apply in relation to the order (see section 112(5)(c) and (d))."
§
Page 86, line 29, at end insert—
( ) The charge takes effect on the termination date for the order as a legal charge which is a local land charge.
§ On Question, amendments agreed to.
§ Clause 120, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 121 [Termination of management orders: leases, agreements and proceedings]:
§ Lord Rooker moved Amendments Nos. 167 to 169B:
§ Page 87, line 16, leave out "in the nature of a lease or licence created" and insert "which (in accordance with section (General effect of interim management orders: leases and licences granted by authority) or ( General effect of final management orders: leases and licences granted by authority)) has effect as a lease or licence granted"
§ Page 87, line 20, after "done" insert "before the termination date"
§ Page 87, line 30, leave out "that" and insert "the termination"
§ Page 87, line 38, leave out "(4)" and insert "(6)"
§
Page 88, line 3, at end insert—
( ) This section applies to instruments as it applies to agreements.
§ On Question, amendments agreed to.
§ Clause 121, as amended, agreed to.
902§ Clause 122 [Management orders: power of entry to carry out work]:
§ Lord Hanningfield moved Amendment No. 170:
§ Page 88, line 23, leave out "reasonable notice" and insert "notice a month in advance"
§ The noble Lord said: We now come to Clause 122, which deals with the power of the local authority or other authorised individuals to enter a premises to carry out work on a property during the interim or final management order.
§ We have debated previously that such power must be used with caution as they possess the ability of infringing an individual's right to privacy. Can the Minister tell us when such a power of entry would he used and, in particular, under what specific conditions and circumstances?
§ Amendment No. 170 attempts to clarify what the Minister considers to be a noted period of reasonable time before intended work and entry can commence. As the Bill stands, there is nothing to stop a local authority deciding overnight to enter premises. We are seeking a level playing field on a national basis rather than having a free-for-all that varies widely from one area to the next, merely confusing everybody involved.
§ Amendment No. 171 would remove from the clause the possibility of legal action and a fine for not complying with allowing an authorised person to enter the premises. This amendment is consequent to Amendment No. 170. If the Minister can provide us with further details of what he considers a reasonable time period with which we are comfortable, I will not pursue this matter further. I beg to move.
§ Lord RookerClause 122 provides the right of entry for a local housing authority, or other person authorised by it, to a property which is subject to a management order for the specific purpose of carrying out works. The clause is principally aimed at occupiers, rather than landlords.
Subsection (1) provides that reasonable notice must be given to the occupier in order to gain access.
Subsection (4) provides that if an occupier, having been given reasonable notice that the works are to be carried out, refuses access for that purpose, the local housing authority may apply to a magistrates' court for what is described as "an access order".
Subsections (5) and (6) provide that if the access order is not complied with by the occupier, then that person commits an offence and upon conviction may be fined up to £5,000.
Amendment No. 170 seeks to remove the requirement in subsection (4) for the giving of reasonable notice of intention to carry out works, with a requirement that one month's notice must be given in every case. As I have indicated, this clause is concerned to ensure that the local housing authority is not frustrated in carrying out its repairing obligations to occupiers of property that it is managing because of a management order. In a lot of cases it may be perfectly reasonable to give one month's notice if the works are minor or routine, but it is not reasonable if 903 the required repairs are to remedy a dangerous or injurious hazard in the property. In those circumstances the local authority would want the work carried out as soon as possible.
Clause 203 allows access for the purpose of inspecting on 24 hours' notice. It would look odd if, having carried out the inspection under that provision and having identified a serious hazard, the local authority could not embark on works to sort out the problem for a month. That would not make sense.
Amendment No. 171 seeks to remove the criminal penalty for non-compliance with an access order. It is safe to assume that in the vast majority of cases occupiers will be more than willing to grant access to carry out the works. They are the direct beneficiaries of the works or improvements. Nor do the Government seek to criminalise occupiers who may have forgotten about the appointment or wish to rearrange it for a more convenient time.
There are two limbs to the access order. If the authority is unable to gain access and it either has some doubt as to the occupier's intention or it is an emergency, then it may apply to the magistrates' court for an access order. It is only if the occupier fails to comply with that order that he will commit an offence.
There will be examples where it is necessary to take this course of action: the resident landlord may resent the local authority having taken away his management of the property and may just want to make things difficult and be a member of the awkward squad; or the landlord may not care and make life difficult—for example, if certain communal features were in his flat and in disrepair. This provision is intended to address that type of case.
The removal of subsections (5) and (6) would have the opposite effect to that intended by the noble Lord. Enforcement of breaches of access orders would have to be by proceedings for contempt of court which could lead to something worse than fines. Imprisonment can be used for contempt of court.
If the concern is that local authorities might act unreasonably in acquiring access—and that is justifiable concern—then government Amendment No. 238M prohibits it by inserting a new clause for authorisations for enforcement purposes including, power of entry under this clause. Any entry has to be authorised by a deputy chief officer of the authority. We do not want to be unreasonable. In only very few circumstances would emergency access be required. In the vast majority of cases, it could be routine. Therefore, one could give longer notice. With that response, I hope that the noble Lord will be satisfied and not pursue the amendment.
§ 3.30 p.m.
§ Lord HanningfieldI thank the Minister for that reply. It gives some of the assurances for which we were looking. As with several other parts of the Bill, we need to look at it carefully to ensure that we are happy with it before the next stage. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
904§ [Amendment No. 171 not moved.]
§ Clause 122 agreed to.
§ Lord Rooker moved Amendment No. 171A:
§ After Clause 122, insert the following new clause—