Public Servants: Business Appointment Rules (Hansard, 9 September 2004)

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the rules were last reviewed in 1996. The Government therefore feel that a review would be timely to ensure that the rules remain compatible with a public service that is keen to ensure greater interchange with the private and other sectors, which is essential for effective delivery in today's public service.
Perhaps it would be appropriate to place on record the Government's appreciation of the excellent work undertaken by the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments, of which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mayhew of Twysden, is chairman, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, and the noble Lords, Lord Maclennan of Rogart and Lord Wilson of Tillyorn, are notable members.

§ Lord Goodhart
My Lords, yesterday a survey commissioned by the Committee on Standards in Public Life was published which reported that only 37 per cent of members of the public trusted senior civil servants and only 24 per cent trusted Ministers. Against that background do the Government realise that the relatively modest restrictions imposed by the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments on civil servants and Ministers moving to the private sector are necessary, both to prevent sleaze and to prevent trust falling even lower? If there is to be any change, it should be, as the committee recommends in its sixth report, towards greater stringency.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, it is right that we review the rules from time to time. No doubt that will be one of the issues that are looked at in the review. The probity issue is important and the noble Lord is right to highlight the importance of retaining public trust and confidence. I am almost tempted to ask how many people trust Liberal Democrats, but perhaps that would be unfair across the Dispatch Box.

§ Lord Sheldon
My Lords, will my noble friend acknowledge the problems regarding civil servants' relations with business and that in the decisions that they make their independence may be at risk, not least in the light of their possible post-Civil Service career? This is a real danger that needs to be taken seriously.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right to draw attention to the importance of that issue and I am sure that Sir Patrick Brown, with his extensive experience of the public service and the private sector, will be willing to draw on the experience of others in putting together his report—and focus on exactly that sort of issue.

§ Lord Cope of Berkeley
My Lords, in the face of increasing politicisation, would not one measure to improve the trust of the public in the Civil Service be a Civil Service Bill, such as has been proposed by the 694 Public Administration Committee in another place, has been placed before another place by my honourable friend Oliver Heald, has been supported by the Deputy Prime Minister but has been left on the shelf by the Government?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, this is not a matter that has been left on the shelf, as the noble Lord is well aware. We are committed to publishing a draft Bill for consultation during the current parliamentary Session. I have no doubt that that will happen.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
My Lords, perhaps I may declare an interest as a former member of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments and draw attention to the work that is involved in deciding the length of time that should elapse before a very senior civil servant can take up an appointment, usually a very senior appointment, in the private sector. While I was a member of the committee that period of time began to shrink and has continued to shrink. I accept the Minister's comments on the importance of an interchange between the public and private sectors, but that is less important than the integrity of the public sector. Will the Minister ensure that the new rules do not further weaken one of the most important pillars of the integrity and honesty of our Civil Service, a value we should not put at risk at any time?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the Government are on record many times in making plain their belief, their confidence and trust in the public service. We do not wish to see anything happen that would undermine that in any way, shape or form. I am not sure that I agree with the noble Baroness's observation on the shortening of the period between leaving the public service and taking up appointments in the private sector. We should applaud the work that the committee undertakes and we have the utmost confidence in the members of that committee and the advice that they give, particularly to Ministers and civil servants.

§ Lord Armstrong of Ilminster
My Lords, perhaps I may declare an interest as having once been the victim, if that is the correct word, of the rules on business appointments. I can assure the House that six months is a very long time between one's retirement and moving into an appointment outside. It is extraordinary how quickly one becomes completely out of date in terms of what one knows about what happens in government and in terms of contacts. I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Sheldon. Would it be possible to say that for any civil servant whose card has been marked by a business employer before his retirement the period of delay while he has to wait to take up that appointment should be as long as possible?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I applaud the noble Lord's observation. I am sure that it is one on which Sir Patrick will draw in conducting his review. In a sense it is an appeal to the whole House; if noble Lords 695 have evidence that they wish to draw to Sir Patrick's attention, I am sure that he will be happy to learn of their experiences.