HL Deb 28 October 2004 vol 665 cc1397-9

11.10 a.m.

Lord Greenway

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I apologise for the fact that, due to circumstances beyond my control, one line of the Question is missing.

The full text of the Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government which recreational boating interests were consulted on the amendments to the original draft of the Merchant Shipping (Vessel Traffic Monitoring and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2004 which extended the regulations to include recreational craft with a length of less than 45 metres.

Lord Triesman

My Lords, after public consultation on the original draft of the Merchant Shipping (Vessel Traffic Monitoring and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2004, changes had to be made to incorporate provisions on safety and pollution prevention that needed to have effect in order to meet international requirements. The time available for implementing Directive 2002/59/EC was insufficient to permit further consultation with recreational boating interests. In those circumstances, the Government will consider with interested bodies whether changes to the regulations are appropriate.

Lord Greenway

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply and welcome the promise of further consultation, late though it might be.

Is this not yet another case of the unnecessary gold-plating of EU regulations which, if fully complied with, might well sink the Maritime and Coastguard Agency under a sea of paper? If not complied with, the regulations could make criminals of a large number of the boating public.

Lord Triesman

My Lords, the critical issue is safety. A sequence of maritime law has been drawn together, and the provisions have been faithfully reproduced from that. Safety is important, and too many people have seen accidents, perhaps involving children and others on school trips, to think that it is completely safe not to have a robust system of regulation. No one wants to criminalise anything.

Lord Rotherwick

My Lords, is it not true that by removing the exemption for boats under 45 metres and gold-plating the regulations as no other EU country has done, the Government have made the regulations farcical? Is it not true that yachtsmen must now report immediately any trivial incident? When I say "trivial incident", I am talking about racing yachts touching buoys as they turn or the batteries going flat on people's mobile telephones as they cross the Solent. Anyone in a boat or dinghy capsizing during a race, which is normal, must now report the incident, otherwise they will be treated as a criminal and fined heavily.

Lord Triesman

My Lords, as I said, the regulations draw together a number of existing maritime laws. Under those laws and in the circumstances that the noble Lord has just described so vividly, there have been no prosecutions.

We will take a common sense approach to the enforcement of the regulations during the period of consultation that I mentioned to the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, a few moments ago. Although no one can rule out the need for action in the circumstances that I described—a serious hazard to children or a wreck or something discovered by a collision that would normally be reported—I do not think that we need get into a state of panic.

Lord Bradshaw

My Lords, I do not in any way discount the importance of safety, but does not the Minister agree that regulation in Britain, applied to all modes of transport in Britain and to other things, has reached the stage at which people are put to huge expense and, no doubt, the armies of regulators increased? Should there not be a threshold beneath which regulation should not reach?

Lord Triesman

My Lords, I do not suppose that anybody would welcome excessive regulation in any area. It always imposes some degree of burden. However, I am sure that all noble Lords will recognise that there is understandable public anxiety about the general safety of transport. When things go wrong, we take sharp notice.

One could not manage by preventing legislation below a certain level. Small canoes in Poole harbour can kill children. Sensible regulation is a good idea.

Lord Moynihan

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Royal Yachting Association is an excellent example of a governing body looking after a successful, Olympic team, as well as 100,000 recreational sailors? It was an error on the part of his department not to consult the RYA about the amendments to the draft order in the first place.

Lord Triesman

My Lords, the Government are proud of our relationship with the RYA. Although there may be the occasional bit of turbulence, it has been a fairly good relationship. Had there been enough time, it would have been desirable for all the consultations to take place. We faced legal action from the EC as regards making sure that things were done by the correct time. That is why I gave the undertaking today that there would be the consultation that is required.

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