Football Hooliganism (Hansard, 27 October 2004)

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the Government are satisfied with the progress made, but of course we are not complacent. Our tough banning order legislation is the cornerstone of a multi-faceted and multi-agency strategy for tackling English football-disorder domestically and overseas. The strategy is proving to be successful in combating football-related disorder. Home Office statistics published on 23 October show a 10 per cent decrease in the number of arrests at football, while 2,599 individuals are currently subject to banning orders—the highest number ever.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that positive Answer. Does he agree that the reduction in the number of arrests last season and the almost complete avoidance of trouble involving England supporters at the European Championship in Portugal this summer is one of those rare success stories that reflects credit on all the parties involved: the Football Association, the police and Her Majesty's Government? I also mention in particular my noble friend who chaired the Home Office working party on football hooliganism and who piloted the legislation through this House to establish banning orders in the face, one must say, of opposition from people who argued either that banning orders would not work or that they were an affront to civil liberties. Both of those arguments have been proved entirely false.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his kind words. Tribute has to be paid to all those involved, not least the Home Office, the police, the Football Banning Orders Authority and supporters' groups who all played their part in contributing to tackling the problems of hooliganism. Regarding the championship in Portugal this summer, I pay tribute to the England football fans' embassy, which did a good job in keeping the 50,000 England supporters over there well informed and well advised about what was a very good-natured tournament.

§ Lord Moynihan
My Lords, I have lasting memories of the tragic scenes I witnessed at the Hillsborough 1288 football ground on that evening in 1989 when 96 fans died. No one in the House could feel more strongly than I about today's reports alleging abusive chanting connected to the Hillsborough tragedy from a small section of mindless thugs. That appears to have been the probable cause of the violence and the hospitalisation of a wheelchair spectator during the Millwall v Liverpool game last night. Does the Minister agree that that behaviour is as intolerable, unacceptable and vile as racist chanting is at some football matches? Although I appreciate that it is difficult, will he immediately call on the Football League to see whether severe action can be taken against this small group of thugs who do not deserve to be associated with football and who it should be possible, through CCTV, to identify and then to ban from football grounds?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I concur entirely with everything the noble Lord has said I too have read the reports with considerable alarm. I understand that riot police had to be deployed last night and that four arrests were made. The allegation of the distasteful chanting is one that should be followed up and no doubt will form part of the police investigation and inquiry into those incidents. I hope that the football authorities will look closely at the events at that particular game last night and undertake their own careful investigation to see what action should be taken to ensure that the perpetrators are brought to justice.

§ Lord Dholakia
My Lords, noble Lords on the Liberal Democrat Benches welcome the progress that has been made so far. However, does not the Minister agree that what happens on the football field is as important as what goes on outside the football ground? Does he condemn the behaviour of players like David Beckham and Ruud van Nistelrooy for unacceptable fouls during play and, more important, the behaviour of managers like Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson that resulted in the fracas which took place in the Old Trafford tunnel? If neither the Football Association nor those in charge can take appropriate action, will the Minister recommend to the police the Government's much-publicised anti-social behaviour orders against some of these people?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his imaginative approach to this subject. It is a welcome change of heart from noble Lords on the Liberal Democrat Benches to see them championing the cause of anti-social behaviour orders. That is not something we hear too often in your Lordships' House.
I take the point made by the noble Lord about the behaviour of certain individuals. While it would be invidious of me to select any one of those referred to, I do think that managers and footballers have a very important part to play in terms of leadership. They must demonstrate a strong lead in taking a stand against poor behaviour, which reflects very badly on 1289 what is by and large a game that everyone loves and is in most cases enjoyed by many millions of people in this country in good circumstances in good stadiums.

Baroness Sharpies
My Lords, how long does a ban last, and is there any form of appeal?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, it is open to those convicted to appeal against their conviction. However, bans can last for as long as 10 years. The length of the bans is having a serious effect on the numbers now being arrested. Bans appear to be acting as an extremely strong deterrent.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, despite what may be slight complacency both on the Minister's part and on that of the kind noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, does the Minister agree that he should consider this matter during the odd years of 2005 and 2007 when no major international championships involving England and Scotland will be held? Draconian views have been expressed in your Lordships' House. However, when football supporters are treated with humour, kindness, help and assistance—as I saw at Norwich this weekend—people tend to behave in like ways. Draconian measures of the kind outlined by the noble Lord do not then need to be taken.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I certainly reject the charge of being complacent on this issue. We have to be ever vigilant. Indeed, plans are already being made to ensure that when England participates in the 2006 World Cup, it is an orderly competition in which our fans and supporters are well behaved. However, I agree with the noble Lord that it is much better when fans are entertaining and entertained. In stadiums where other distractions are provided, they help to create a generally satisfactory atmosphere. Certainly my experience as a travelling supporter in Portugal this summer suggested that the way in which the Portuguese organised the tournament was a great credit to football.