Iraq: Multinational Forces (Hansard, 19 October 2004)

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, as I explained in answer to a Question on 24 June 2004, the Ministerial Committee for National Security—it is always attended by a senior British diplomat, usually now Ambassador Chaplin—issues strategic policy direction and guidance on national security issues. Strategic operational decisions are taken by that committee, but operational decisions on implementation of MCNS policy are a matter for force commanders, within the established rules of engagement.

§ Lord Hurd of Westwell
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. However, can she please do her best to prevent her colleague the Secretary of State for Defence hiding, as he did yesterday, behind what is in Iraq a completely bogus distinction between political and operational decisions? What could be more political than what seems to be in the wind now—an operation to batter and break down the rebel cities in Iraq as a prelude to the election? Before the Government make their decision on the matter being discussed, can we be sure that this time—at last—there is a system under which our views are given proper weight, in accordance and in line with the contribution that we make and the risks that our troops run?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the interesting phrase that the noble Lord used was "proper weight"; our views are given proper weight. He says that the distinction is bogus, but I am afraid that I have to disagree, with the greatest respect to him. The Ministerial Committee for National Security is chaired by Prime Minister Allawi. It meets once a week at ministerial level. I have indicated that those from the multinational force and ambassadors are involved in it. There is also the Security Action Committee, which has been established to co-ordinate consultation between the MNF and the Iraqi chain of command on security issues. The SAC provides support to the first committee under the chairmanship of the Prime Minister, but the operational decisions are taken by the commanders on the ground, as the noble Lord would expect and as is right and proper. The political direction comes from the senior committee that I mentioned.

§ Lord Garden
My Lords, what has changed since the end of June in the Coalition Provisional Authority? We now have it on record from Dr Larry Diamond, who was a senior member of the CPA, that it was American policy to freeze the British out of any strategic decision-making.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the noble Lord cites that gentleman as a proper authority, 647 but I have been to Iraq twice in the past year and have not felt that we were frozen out of decisions. Indeed, when I was last there, Secretary of State Powell went out of his way to include me—a mere Minister of State from the United Kingdom—in the discussions going on. I simply do not recognise the picture that the noble Lord chooses to paint.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, further to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Hurd, has the noble Baroness seen reports of the new American strategy, which is to pacify and recapture 20 cities in Iraq in the next two weeks? It has been listed in great detail in a number of newspapers. If that is the American strategy and if we are now, as looks inevitable, to be intimately involved in it—we are bound to be if we move troops up from the southern sector—can she assure us that there has been full consultation on the evolution of that strategy between British and American authorities?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the strategy owes quite as much to Dr Allawi as to the forces on the ground. He has pursued a policy of talking to those among the insurgents or former regime elements to whom he believes that he can appeal, and to those on the Shia side who have also been a source of difficulty. So, on both the Sunni and Shia sides he has sought rapprochement in a number of areas. At the same time Dr Allawi naturally wishes there to be better security throughout Iraq and, therefore, has decided that appropriate military action should be used in respect of certain cities.
So there are two issues. The noble Lord used the word "pacify", which can be used in the sense of trying to persuade others to join the future of Iraq; on the other hand, it can be used when dealing appropriately with those who will not be persuaded.

§ Lord Corbett of Castle Vale
My Lords, what recent representations have Her Majesty's Government made to the regime in Iran, where there is continuing evidence of persistent interference in what is happening on the ground in Iraq? What has been the response of the mullahs to that?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we wish Iran to be a good neighbour to Iraq. That is a point that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and I have raised on a number of occasions. Most recently, I recall conversations that took place when we met some of our Iranian colleagues at the General Assembly of the United Nations about two or three weeks ago.

§ Lord Steel of Aikwood
My Lords, could the Minister tell the House whether we were consulted on the operational decision, right at the beginning of the occupation, to disband the Iraqi army, thus creating thousands of antagonistic, unemployed and armed young men in the streets of Baghdad?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I shall have to look at what actually happened. The 648 noble Lord asked me to recall something from quite some time ago. I will say this to the noble Lord: I believe that since that decision was taken, we have had cause to reflect upon it. It is the case that taking people out of senior ranks from security forces was highly questionable—and was subsequently reversed; but I fail to see the point of taking Ba'athist members out of schools and universities when anyone knows that under the former regime one had to be a member of the Ba'ath Party in order to hold any job of consequence.

§ Lord Roberts of Conwy
My Lords, has the noble Baroness noted that the Secretary-General of the United Nations has been talking today about the need for a pacific environment for the coming elections? Is it conceivable that we would be having elections in Iraq at all, let alone in a peaceful environment, without the assistance of the coalition forces?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, no—that was an excellent question. It is inconceivable that there would be any opportunity for the Iraqi people to say what sort of government they want. The Secretary-General is quite right to say that a secure environment must be provided for those elections. I discussed that with Dr Shaways yesterday and I also had the opportunity to discuss it with the Secretary-General himself when I was in New York recently.