Freedom of Information Act 2000 (Hansard, 12 October 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Constitutional Affairs (Baroness Ashton of Upholland)
My Lords, we will shortly make an announcement about the fees that will charged for freedom of information requests. We will introduce a fee system that is simple to operate and understand and is accessible to users regardless of their means.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the reason that the fee decision has been taken right to the wire is that throughout the summer a fierce battle has been raging in Whitehall between those who would use the fee structure to retain the culture of secrecy in Whitehall and those who see the implementation of the Freedom of Information Act as a real step forward for open government? Will she assure the House that she is on the side of the angels in this battle?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I confess that I have always been an angel. In my few weeks as a Minister in the department, I have seen no evidence of any battle across Whitehall. What I have seen in my discussions with colleagues across government is a desire to ensure that we have freedom of information—something which the Government have long aspired to and support. It is good news for all our citizens.

§ Lord Clark of Windermere
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that probably the best policy is to try to avoid fees wherever possible? Will she urge government departments to be proactive in the field of freedom of information and publish as much as information as possible, especially on the Internet, so that we can refer inquiries to that source and therefore avoid fees?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I pay tribute to my noble friend's work in this area, and I could not agree more with him on the need to be proactive. I met with the guardians of records across government last week at their two-day conference, where they were looking precisely at how to be as proactive as possible by releasing information and using technology cleverly to enable us to get ahead of the game on the information that is to be released. We met with huge enthusiasm there, as we have across government.

§ Baroness Buscombe
My Lords, will the Minister repeat her first reply? Did she say that information would be accessible regardless of means? How can one have a fee structure that is accessible regardless of means? If one has no means, how does one pay a fee?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, as the noble Baroness says, I did say that the structure would be simple to operate and understand, and accessible to users regardless of their means. We shall make an announcement very shortly that will elucidate for the noble Baroness precisely what I mean. However, the direction of travel for the Government should be very 123 clear. It is to ensure that our fee structure reflects our desire to see the facility as something important and necessary for our citizens.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that if the level of fees is pitched too high, members of the public may be tempted to avoid them by asking honourable Members or noble Lords to obtain the information for them, thus adding to ministerial correspondence?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I am ever mindful of the workload of noble Lords and Members in another place, and indeed of the ministerial workload. However, the purpose is to enable our citizens to obtain information and not to have to use means other than a direct request. That is very much in the forefront of our minds as we consider the final structure.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, is the Minister aware that we on these Benches associate ourselves with the compliment paid to the noble Lord, Lord Clark of Windermere, who played such a pioneering role in taking the Bill forward?
Does the Minister accept that the experience in both Canada and Ireland was that there needed to be substantial training of civil servants to change the mindset away from a culture of secrecy towards open government? Can she assure the House that such training has been taking place?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, indeed it has. I know that the noble Lord asked my noble friend Lord Filkin a very similar question as one of his supplementaries to a Question in July. I believe that my noble friend answered, rightly, that a lot of work was going on across and within departments to ensure that appropriate training is available for all those involved in public service who will provide information. I believe that we can build on the experience of Canada and Ireland and other nations in doing that.

§ Lord Lucas
My Lords, will members of the public be able to make requests and receive answers by electronic means? If the answer is yes, will that same courtesy be extended to Members of this House when they ask Questions to the Government?

§ Baroness Ashton of Upholland
My Lords, I sense a loaded question, and I shall be very cautious in answering. It is my ambition that we should use technology as much as we can and as best we can. As the noble Lord knows, it is not always possible to respond in the way he suggests right across government. Systems need to be able to cope and cater, and there are real issues about firewalls and other security questions. However, as a proponent of technology as an answer to a question rather than a problem, my ambition has always been that we should try to use it wherever possible.