Israel: US Arms Exports (Hansard, 11 October 2004)

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, none. Israel has legitimate security concerns and the right to self-defence under the United Nations Charter, Article 51. Our policy—indeed, EU policy—is not to license arms exports that we judge would be used for international repression or external aggression or would fuel regional conflict. Her Majesty's Government have long-held differences with the United States on the question of arms exports to Israel, of which these bombs are one example. Meanwhile, the United States' position is also clear: to grant Israel export licences for a range of armaments which we do not, under our arms export criteria, supply.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
My Lords, I thank the Minister very much for that reply. Given that the situation between the western world and Iran is now peculiarly dangerous—perhaps one of the most dangerous situations in the world—and that it would almost certainly require permission to use Iraqi airspace were there to be a pre-emptive strike, can the Minister tell us what advances are being made on the diplomatic front, which is the only hopeful alternative? In particular, does she know—and in this respect I pay credit to the UK Government and to other European governments for the attempts they are making—whether there is any possibility that Iran may sign and 10 ratify the protocol to the resolution regarding a proliferation of nuclear weapons, which would enable the United Nations to make spot inspections?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I am not sure whether the noble Baroness is asking about Iran signing the protocol.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
Yes, my Lords.

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, Iran has said that it will sign the protocol that allows for inspections. However, it is not the signing but the ratifying that will trigger the inspections. That is one of the current difficulties. The noble Baroness will know that we are pursuing the issue of Iran's nuclear capability—which would be perfectly acceptable were it for peaceful purposes alone. As she will know, the IAEA board raised questions in September about Iran's ability to show that that was really the case. Therefore, this issue will go back to the board of governors—on about 13 to 15 November, next month—when we hope that the issue will be aired again.
We are doing everything to try to pursue a diplomatic solution to this problem, but I would be misleading the House if I were to indicate that the problem is getting any easier. It is a very difficult problem. As the noble Baroness's Question implies, there is a real issue about an escalation of arms in the region.

§ Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, in the light of her first reply to the noble Baroness, can the Minister give the House an assurance that we have not ourselves supplied any of the weaponry that has been used in recent Israeli attacks in Gaza which are reported to have led to 74 Palestinian deaths, including 37 civilians of whom 23 were children?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I have to answer that question conditionally in the sense that, as far as I know, none of the exports we have made has been used to that end.
We lay out clearly what has been sold to all countries in the world. Indeed, we have the most transparent export licensing regime of any country in the world. We have, for example, licensed bomb disposal equipment, military helmets, signal flares and some cryptography equipment. I cannot tell the noble Lord that none of that has been used—of course I cannot—but that does not involve the aggressive weaponry which I believe lay at the root of the Question of the noble Baroness, Lady Williams.

§ Lord Campbell-Savours
My Lords, if this is one example of our differences, why cannot we simply say that we, Britain, are opposed to the transfer of this material to Israel—as indeed the American Government have on previous occasions opposed the transfer of equipment by British defence manufacturers to sensitive areas overseas?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we do say that we oppose the transfer of weaponry. The point at which I believe my noble friend is driving relates to the situation where component parts for equipment have been exported from this country to a third country and are then sent to another country where we have concerns over its use in terms of our national criteria—that is, internal repression or external aggression. There was indeed—my noble friend is perhaps referring to this—a good deal of concern about the components of the F16s which were imported from the United Kingdom and then exported from the United States to Israel. But, as my noble friend knows, we went over that issue in some detail only last year.

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, we were referring a moment ago to dialogue with Iran rather than dropping bombs on it—which seems very sensible. Can the Minister tell the House whether the Iranians have agreed to give us back our boats that they illegally seized the other day?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, as far as I know, that issue is still a matter of "business in progress". We were very interested indeed to look at the GPS system on those boats for obvious reasons in regard to their real location and where they were at the time that they were seized. There has been some useful, but so far not conclusive, exchanges on the whole question of the GPS system. It is a matter in which I take a very great interest as the Minister for the Middle East.

§ Lord Clarke of Hampstead
My Lords, perhaps my noble friend will comment on the remarks of John Bolton, the United States Minister for Arms Control, about the secret talks on 29 July when the Iranian Government made clear that they had enough fissionable material to make weapons within a matter of months, and certainly to create nuclear weapons within three years? Is there any correlation between Israel's determination to defend itself and such statements by a government who are supposed to be pursuing a non-nuclear policy?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, Mr Bolton takes a particular view about Iranian armaments. If my noble friend is referring to the question of balance between Israel and Iran, then he has a point. It is one upon which your Lordships will have to remark. Banners marked "Israel must be wiped off the map" were draped from missiles during the military parade on 21 September in Iran to mark holy defence week. That is a wholly unacceptable act on the part of the Iranian authorities. As your Lordships would expect, the EU has protested to the Iranian authorities about it. But it is important to bear in mind that when we consider possible aggressive stances on the part of one country, one also has to consider the degree of provocation that has been offered on the part of another.