European Communities Act 1972 (Hansard, 1 November 2004)

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, yes. As we indicated in the White Paper—Command Paper 6309—presented to Parliament on 9 September 2004, it is our intention to introduce a Bill to Parliament to give effect to the EU Constitution in United Kingdom law through amendment to the European Communities Act 1972.

§ Lord Taverne
My Lords, is it not correct that the leader of the Conservative Party, Mr Howard, as well as Mr Redwood, have announced that they intend to amend the European Communities Bill if the planned negotiation to repatriate fisheries policies is not successful? They intend to act unilaterally and disregard their obligations under the European treaties. Is it not surprising that a government who, we understand, still aspire to office—

Noble Lords
Party!

§ Lord Taverne
My Lords, I am sorry; is it not surprising that a party that still aspires to office should publicly announce that it intends to tear up any treaties that it does not like and behave in a manner that would be a disgrace to a banana republic?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, I do not answer for Mr Howard or Mr Redwood. However, as the noble Lord was kind enough to offer me such a splendid gift, I must say that I agree with him in every sense except the bit about the party opposite being in government. It is remarkable that they want to repeal legislation which, after all, they introduced.

Lord Renton
My Lords—

§ Lord Howell of Guildford
My Lords, let me have a go at answering the Question. I would have thought that it was crashingly obvious. The whole argument for the new constitution has been that it will simplify and embrace all existing treaties, so it is perfectly obvious that all the other treaties will have to be amended—in fact, nullified—in the legislation being introduced, which we recognise. However, we also recognise that, if the constitution fails, we will need to renegotiate many issues including the fisheries policy. I do not see any difficulty about that at all. Indeed, it will be necessary.
However, without anticipating the gracious Speech, when this legislation is introduced it will be much the most massive piece of European legislation in this House, dealing with amending all previous legislation connected to all the earlier treaties that your Lordships have ever faced. Will the Minister confirm that that is the prospect before us, even if, as is almost certain, the constitution eventually falters and fails?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, as usual the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, has demonstrated how much more sensible he is than either Mr Howard or Mr Redwood. However, he said that the legislation would have to be amended. It has to be amended with reference to a treaty, not with reference to off-the-cuff wishes of various members of the party opposite. It will be amended with reference to what the European heads of government signed up to last Friday.
On the question of how big this legislation will be, your Lordships will have just a few more weeks to wait because I hope the Bill will be published shortly after the gracious Speech. In the mean time, I recommend to your Lordships the guide to the European Union published at 2:15 this afternoon. It is a good read.

§ Lord Hannay of Chiswick
My Lords, if the constitutional treaty fails to be approved in a referendum here, does the Minister agree that the situation is not as the noble Lord described because the treaty of Nice would apply? The treaty of Nice was denounced by the noble Lord and his colleagues as an appalling treaty when it was ratified. What has happened since then?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, is quite right. If the constitution is not approved in a referendum the position will be as it pertains today. That is true of the legislation not receiving a good wind from any country in the European Union.

§ Lord Roberts of Conwy
My Lords, I suggest very strongly that we will have this legislation during the next Session. Does that mean that it will be introduced before or after the referendum?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the legislation will be introduced in the usual way. We have been through this process with the four treaties subsequent to the accession treaty; most recently with the treaty of Nice. The treaty will come before the House, the House will debate it in the usual way, and the referendum will be subsequent to that debate.

§ Lord Tomlinson
My Lords, will my noble friend tell me what progress is being made with the annotated version of the new draft constitution that is being prepared and whether that work indicates clearly what I believe to be the case—namely, that the vast majority of clauses in the treaty of Rome actually pass into the new treaty unchanged and the changes are nothing like as dramatic as some noble Lords opposite would have us believe?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
Yes, my Lords, we have been over this matter several times before. Some of the more dramatic claims made by the party opposite about the nature of this treaty will be shown to have been completely erroneous. The paper to which my noble friend Lord Tomlinson referred is in draft form and I hope that it will be published before the end of this year. However, in the mean time I say again to your Lordships: the guide to the European Union is a very good read.

§ Lord Wallace of Saltaire
My Lords, does the Minister accept that many people—we are told—on the Conservative side appear to be supporting Kerry in the elections rather than Bush precisely on the grounds that a US administration that picks and chooses which bits of international law it wants is not one to be trusted? Does she also accept that, inside the European Union, the idea that one can pick and choose which bits of this multilateral basis for co-operation to accept is not acceptable if one wants to be considered a fulltime member?

§ Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, we are not in the position of being able to cherry-pick a way through the treaty. I am frequently asked by noble Lords opposite whether it is possible to amend the treaty. I say to your Lordships over and again that, unsurprisingly, it is not possible to amend the treaty that has been agreed by 25 countries. On the question of the election in the United States, we have just a little longer to wait.

§ Lord Garel-Jones
My Lords—

Lord Renton
My Lords—

§ Lord Grocott
My Lords, we are already one minute into the time allocated for the fourth Question in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham.