Libraries: Libri Report (Hansard, 6 May 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord McIntosh of Haringey)
My Lords, the Libri report is a very useful contribution to debate on the future of public libraries, though its launch was marred by an intemperate press release. Libraries are not in near-terminal decline. In an age when society's need for information and knowledge is so significant, libraries have a key role to play. I expect to see a small, but significant, rise in the number of library visits when the 2002–03 annual public library statistics are published shortly, and that was before the People's Network project put computers into every library.

§ Lord Harrison
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Nevertheless, does he share my concern that the Libri report suggests that some £200 million a year is wasted in poor management and administration, that only £9 out of £ 100 are spent on the book fund and that the Government's 1997 target for opening hours is still only two-thirds achieved? In the light of the proposed June summit meeting of those concerned with libraries, will he bring council leaders and chief executives to book to ensure that the worry expressed by Libri that the public library service will have a shelf life of only a further 15 years does not materialise?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I would prefer to call my meeting in June a seminar rather than a summit. I think that summit is a bit grand. I will not call chief executives and leaders of councils to book; I will invite them to be present, which I think is more constructive. I will also invite Tim Coates, the author of the Libri report, and he will have an opportunity to defend his statements about the decline of libraries, some of which I have a good deal of doubt about.

§ Baroness Buscombe
My Lords, the Minister will recall that in a recent debate on the library service in your Lordships' House the Minister stated that something will have to be done about the problem that more money gets spent on administration than on frontline services. Following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, has asked, will the Minister 1212 confirm what action is being taken to ensure that money will be spent on resources for libraries rather than on over-elaborate management?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, that is a major issue that we will be discussing at the meeting to which I referred. Clearly, we need to have not only people responsible for running libraries at that meeting, but also people from outside libraries who have a contribution to make. People other than library staff have been invited, have accepted and will be present. It has to be said that the Libri report, which is very damning about some aspects of library services, is based on two things: first, a study of one library service in Hampshire and, secondly, statistics from the Audit Commission that are two years out of date. I am not as despondent as some people about this.

§ Viscount Falkland
My Lords, will the Minister encourage the House, and the wider audience, by saying that, although the developments in the way in which computers are now used in libraries are highly admirable, it is still the book that is the thing, particularly for older people? In many libraries there is a notable absence of buying of new titles. Would he agree with me that books, apart from information, produce an atmosphere that gives a library added value for people who are sometimes lonely or very poor?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, there are many things that libraries can offer, notably information technology and reference support, but the core of libraries is books. We must never forget that. It is important that spending on books should be kept up. At the same time, to keep the matter in context, books for purchase in booksellers are much cheaper than they were 100 years ago. One must look at what people read and whether they buy books or borrow books to discover whether literacy in this country is, as is wrongly alleged, in decline.

Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, are the Government not as worried as a lot of my friends and I are that young people are not reading as much as we did when we were young? When I was a young person I loved my books and got the greatest enjoyment from them, and education, I think. Are the Government worried on that point? It is no good having all the libraries in the world unless one can interest the young.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I do not think it is true that the young are reading less than we did—well, they are reading less than the noble Lord, Lord Mowbray, and I did. On the whole, I do not think that it is true that the young are reading less. If one goes into any public library, one will see that the children's library is thronged with young people. I think that libraries are a great success for children.

Lord Acton
My Lords, my noble friend said that, when the figures are available, he expects them to show 1213 a small increase in the number of library visits in 2002–03. What does that compare to? What was the number of library visits in 2001–02?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I do not have the statistics, but the fundamental point is that both library visits and book sales have been in decline for a number of years. That is the point that the Libri report addresses and which the Audit Commission has addressed. It is very serious. It is not terminal decline but it certainly is a significant and dangerous trend that we have to reverse. At the same time, if we look at public baths or other such facilities, we have moved from public to private provision in many areas: from the town hall clock to the wristwatch and so on. I think that libraries are surviving pretty well.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
My Lords, will the Minister comment on the plight of small rural libraries? As local authority budgets are pushed at the moment, those small branches, in particular, suffer from cuts in hours. It is not just the number of libraries and the number of books, it is the ability of local authorities to provide the all-hours service. It is not a lack of will on the part of local authorities, it is the lack of the funds to do so.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, I entirely agree that it is important that libraries should continue to be accessible, for example, mobile libraries and small local libraries in rural areas. What the Libri report seems to show is that it is not necessarily a matter of funds. There are other managerial issues that need to be taken into account. I was very frightened when I saw the threats of cuts in public libraries when council budgets were being formulated earlier this year, but most of those threats have gone away.

§ Lord Harrison
My Lords, does my noble friend have plans to enlist the help of the Audit Commission to tackle some of the issues of value for money within public libraries?

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
Yes, my Lords. In addition to its very valuable reports in 1997 and 2002, which are the statistical basis for the Libri report, the Audit Commission audits the cultural services of local authorities on a three-year cycle. It will be coming to my meeting and I shall certainly be looking to its audits as being the beginning of action rather than the end of it. I see this matter as commencement, not graduation, to use the American term.