Haskins Report (Hansard, 14 July 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Whitty):
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State hopes to announce shortly our decisions on the report by my noble friend Lord Haskins. It will include how and when the decisions will be implemented.

§ Lord Renton of Mount Harry:
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer and declare an interest as chairman of the Sussex Downs Conservation Board. If behind his reply is the fact that the Secretary of State is, as is widely thought, to announce her decisions on the Haskins report on 22 July, the last day on which Parliament meets, I consider that to be quite disgraceful.
The Government had 10 months in which to consider the recommendations of the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, and they gave them a warm welcome at the start. Does the Minister accept that at present no one in either the agricultural or environmental industries knows who is to be responsible for delivery in the years ahead? Is it to be the Countryside Agency, Defra or English Nature? Surely, if they believe in rural proofing, the Government have a duty to respond to the report quickly and not on the last day of the parliamentary Session.

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that over the decades governments have made 1245 Statements during the last days of any Session of Parliament. Such Statements have equal validity and carry equal accountability, and noble Lords have the ability to query Statements made at any time during the parliamentary Session. Therefore, I do not think that the word "disgraceful" is appropriate here. These are complex issues. We gave a clear and broad indication of how the delivery structure would be altered in the light of the recommendations from my noble friend Lord Haskins, and the details of that will be conveyed in a Statement shortly.

§ Lord Livsey of Talgarth:
My Lords, will the Minister admit that one reason for the delay is the Chancellor's Comprehensive Spending Review? What impact will the CSR have on the implementation of the Haskins report, given that Defra is subject to cuts in the CSR? How are both the CSR and the Haskins report to be integrated into future government policy?

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, Defra is not subject to cuts in the CSR. I thought that it was Liberal Democrat policy, and possibly Tory policy, to cut Defra's budget, but it is certainly not the Government's. The Government have provided additional resources to Defra but the implementation of the Haskins report was not delayed because of the CSR decisions. Through the efficiency arrangements, the CSR provides some additional implementation resources but that is not central to the timing of the decision. It has been a complex matter, involving both serious discussions with staff and very serious discussions with many stakeholders, the details of which will be revealed shortly.

§ Lord Grantchester:
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the most important aspect is to put in place the correct framework for the long term and not to rush ahead with a short-term fix? Is not the best way to approach this matter to put delivery in the context of the rural strategy, reflecting all the changes that the agricultural industry is presently undergoing?

§ Lord Whitty:
Indeed, my Lords. The announcement will be made in that broader context and will not simply be about the mechanisms. The other dimension to the issue, and the most complex, is the need to look at all the funding streams, as well as the machinery, so that we can rationalise and simplify for the benefit of all rural stakeholders the way in which government support rural industry, including agriculture.

§ Baroness Byford:
My Lords, if the Minister cannot agree with my noble friend that the handling of this matter has been disgraceful, will he not at least agree that the Government and his department have dragged their feet on it? The noble Lord, Lord Haskins, hoped that the report would be put before us in April, but we are now in July. I should like to know what is meant by "shortly". Will the Minister tell the House how farmers are supposed to deal with cross-compliance issues when no agency is already set up?

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, with regard to the last point, I think that the noble Baroness completely misunderstands the issue. Neither the specialist agencies nor the Rural Payments Agency are affected by the change of structure that we are talking about in relation to cross-compliance, on which an announcement will also be made shortly. As to when "shortly" will be, I cannot say precisely, but the noble Lord, Lord Renton of Mount Harry, was not a million miles away from what noble Lords will find out definitively next week.

§ The Countess of Mar:
My Lords, can the Minister say whether Defra has got past the discussions-about-discussions stage and whether it is now taking part in practical discussions?

§ Lord Whitty:
Yes, my Lords, we are in practical discussions. Clearly, setting up any institutional change within Whitehall also requires ongoing discussions, but they are ongoing discussions aimed at a result.

§ Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer:
My Lords, does the Minister agree that local authorities are very well placed to deliver the social and economic side of many of the things that need to be delivered? I think that that point was accepted by the noble Lord, Lord Haskins. Does the Minister also accept that some local authorities in parts of the country where there are many small family farms and people who are particularly affected by CAP reform will need considerably more in the way of resource and government freedom to deliver than perhaps those in the eastern half of the country, which will have a far easier time of it?

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, the report of my noble friend Lord Haskins suggests that local authorities and regional bodies should have a greater say and a greater role in delivering policies and guidance to rural business as a whole. However, I shall not be tempted, as the noble Baroness wishes, into suggesting a wholesale redistribution of resources between the east and west of the country, much as I might desire to do so. That is well beyond my remit.

Lord Carter:
My Lords, will next week's Statement include an indication of how much will need to be done through primary legislation and, if so, what the likely timescale will be?

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, my noble friend really should not ask me a question on the timescale of primary legislation. He is the last person to demand that from the Front Bench. Certainly the full creation of an integrated agency would, at some point, require primary legislation, but much can be done in advance of that.

§ Lord Renton of Mount Harry:
My Lords, perhaps I may make a final point to the noble Lord. I fully understand that, in his position, he is bound to defend the decision to make the announcement on the last day that Parliament sits. However, does he accept that at 1247 present it looks as though there will inevitably be confusion between the different agencies over the next three years when no one knows precisely who is doing what? This comes at a particularly bad time when the interim review of the common agricultural policy is being implemented, and that is causing enough confusion and doubt in the agricultural industry already.

§ Lord Whitty:
My Lords, I think that the agricultural sector is probably clearer than the noble Lord implied on the direction of change in agricultural policy. Nevertheless there are still details which require clarification and much of that will be done over the next few days and the summer.
The Haskins reforms do not impact on the nature of the CAP reform. They deliver broader measures of support, and to some extent guidance and regulation, to the rural industry as a whole, whereas the CAP reform is primarily about how we support financially land management and farming within this country. Dramatic changes are involved and the agricultural sector is fairly clear about what they are. As I said, the full details will be dealt with separately. However, the decisions on the Haskins report will be announced shortly. I do not think that we will have several months—certainly not years—of uncertainty as to who does what. I hope that clarity will be an objective of the announcement.