Internet Fraud (Hansard, 8 July 2004)

§ Lord Lucas
asked Her Majesty's Government:
Why the police do not investigate attempted fraud over the Internet.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, the decision on whether to investigate an attempted fraud rests solely with the police, who will take into account available resources, national and local policing priorities, the likely eventual outcome, and the competing priorities of fraud and other criminal cases already under investigation. The Home Office works with the police and industry to tackle fraud and other online crime through a number of other initiatives.

§ Lord Lucas
My Lords, I hope that I am not alone in finding that an extremely woolly and unsatisfactory Answer. Is the noble Lord aware of what it feels like to be told that, effectively, part of the place where one works and lives is off limits to the police—that one can see a crime being committed but the police do not express the slightest interest in investigating it, locally, nationally or through the department? What does he think that that does for one's impression of the Internet as a place to do business, and of the police as people who should keep law and order in this country? Such simple things could be done by the police to make matters better, if only they would get off their bottoms and do them.

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I am quite clear that the police will devote resources to the investigation of fraud perpetrated over the Internet where a case is considered sufficiently serious. Where there is clear evidence of serious and computer-enabled criminality, nationally and internationally, the National High Tech Unit within the National Crime Squad is more than prepared to deal with such cases. This Government have put large resources into ensuring effective and successful policing of the Internet. 919 I understand that the noble Lord has had an unfortunate experience and I greatly sympathise with that. No one likes being the victim of an attempted crime.

§ Lord St John of Bletso
My Lords, is the Minister aware that only 100 detectives in the United Kingdom are qualified to investigate computer crimes, most of whom are focusing on the Botnet armies as well as on paedophile cases. Considering the recent statistics that 50 per cent of home computers are subject to fishing attacks, and that 70 per cent of e-mail is spam, most of which is sent through hacked computers, do the Government plan to allocate greater resources to tackle this ever-growing problem?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I am aware of the statistics that the noble Lord has drawn to the attention of the House. We work closely with the industry to ensure that the problems to which he referred are tackled. The Government take these issues most seriously and for that reason we have begun to put in extra resources. Indeed, in the next year, we are providing extra funding for the City force so that it can expand its capability. It is estimated that some 600 officers are dedicated to tackling fraud and a large part of that work will involve them in dealing with crimes which operate through the Internet.

§ Lord Sheldon
My Lords, as the use of the Internet is due to increase greatly in the years ahead, it is most important that trust be maintained. In the United States, the FBI sponsors the Internet Fraud Complaint Center. Will not users need to have that kind of confidence in the Internet if usage and interest are to be maintained?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, obviously, it is up to each jurisdiction to decide how best to organise its resources to counter Internet crimes. The noble Lord is right that we must have trust in the Internet. For that reason, we have invested more money in tackling Internet crimes and fraud, and the Government are committed to ensuring that we do so effectively. As I explained, we have the National High Tech Crime Unit, which concentrates a great deal of its resource and time in that area of tackling criminal activity.

§ Lord McNally
My Lords, it just so happens that at 10.36 this morning I received an e-mail from a gentleman in Nigeria who wants my help in disbursing some 8 million dollars. Unfortunately, the money is located in China, the United Arab Emirates and in other parts of Europe and he needs my assistance with air flights. This is of course of interest because my noble friend Lord Rennard and the Liberal Democrat by-election fund could well use that kind of money. There is a certain caveat emptor in dealings on the Internet—the citizen has a certain responsibility to himself or herself when getting involved. I am certainly taking advice on this offer. 920 On the wider point, is the Minister convinced that the police are not over-restricted by RIPA and the Data Protection Act and are not over-interpreting them, thereby stopping themselves taking action under that legislation?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I am fascinated by the kind of e-mails that the noble Lord receives. I have not had an e-mail of that kind, but perhaps I should check more closely. Perhaps the Liberal Democrat funds could benefit from such an injection, but they might find that that kind of scam relieves them of money rather than advances them some.
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, that individuals have a responsibility in this respect, but I cannot see how the RIPA provisions and those in the Data Protection Act can be a bar to the police acting effectively in this area. It is a complex one for police investigating and no one should underestimate that. There are simple measures and good advice that members of the public can make and receive, which will enable them to deal with the problem.

§ Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, if policing is about anything, it is about balancing resources? Perhaps one of the reasons for the criticisms of the shortage of police officers on the beat during the past few years has been the increase in the number of specialist departments, so ultimately there must be a balance.
Does my noble friend also agree that a great deal of fraud is not reported, particularly by the financial institutions because they seem to believe that it brings disrespect to the organisations? Is he aware of the case I dealt with fairly recently where I discovered a man who failed to report the theft of his wife's credit card once he discovered that the thief was spending less then she did?

§ Lord Bassam of Brighton
My Lords, I do not want to get into that territory—but it is a good one. My noble friend made some sensible points. The best advice I can give is that where someone receives one of these spams, spoofs or invitations to play a money game, he ought to forward the e-mail to his Internet service provider. That prevents such fraudulent activity and we must all be ever-vigilant in this Internet age.