Ambulances: Speeding Tickets (Hansard, 13 January 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)
My Lords, we are aware that some ambulance trusts are incurring unnecessary administrative costs processing speeding tickets that are automatically issued via safety cameras by police forces. We are working closely with the Home Office, the Department for Transport and the Association of Chief Police Officers to resolve the problems involving emergency vehicles detected by safety cameras. We hope to achieve a workable solution that reduces bureaucracy shortly.

§ Baroness Scott of Needham Market
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether ambulance drivers will he subject to the provisions announced yesterday whereby a levy will be added to speeding fines in order to augment the compensation scheme for victims? Does he not agree that the idea that ambulance drivers, even notionally, might be paying a price towards serious criminal activity carried out by others will be abhorrent to the general public and runs the risk of undermining the public support that we need in order to gain support for speed management measures?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the noble Baroness may not have been listening carefully enough to my Answer. We were trying to get across the message that it was inappropriate that ambulance trusts should be paying those particular fines. So I do not think that they are a ready source of revenue for the Home Secretary or any other member of the Government if they are looking in 468 that particular direction. As I understand it, the Home Secretary has issued a consultation paper on which he will note responses and act accordingly.
On the particular question raised by the noble Baroness, clearly, we are talking to other people about the proper application of the ACPO guidance, which is being administered by many police forces quite sensibly and is leading to ambulance trusts not paying fines.

§ Lord Faulkner of Worcester
My Lords, is it not the case that ambulance drivers, like other drivers of blue-light vehicles, have an exemption from observing speed limits if they are travelling on a genuine emergency? Is not the main problem the fact that the word "emergency" is not properly defined and that, therefore, there is a dispute about what constitutes an emergency? Is not the answer to the problem that ambulance drivers, and other drivers of blue-light vehicles, should know exactly when they may speed and when they may not?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, there is in operation at the moment guidance issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers that invites police forces to apply the criteria that they apply for police vehicles to kindred emergency service vehicles. A large number of police forces are applying that guidance. There is a difference of practice, which is why we are engaged in discussions with the Home Office and ACPO to try to resolve the problems identified in the noble Baroness's Question.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that a number of ambulances have been damaged by speed bumps?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I am aware of that, but, as I understand it, so have private cars.

§ Earl Ferrers
My Lords, if ambulances have been damaged by speed humps, what has happened to the individuals inside the ambulances?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, on a number of occasions the House will have heard me say that we are shifting the balance of power to the local level, so that information is not held in Richmond House.

§ Earl Howe
My Lords, pursuing that point, does the Minister accept that there is a clear link between response times on the part of ambulances and the survival of patients? Does he also agree that speed humps have a damaging effect on the ability of ambulance drivers to respond as quickly as possible in life-threatening situations? In the light of that, does he agree that the emergency services should be consulted on traffic-calming schemes in order to ensure, if possible, that alternative equidistant routes are available to most areas in the event of an ambulance being called out?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the noble Lord is right: response times to life-threatening calls are very important. I draw his attention to the fact that these 469 response times have improved dramatically since 1997. At that point, virtually no ambulance trusts were reaching more than 65 per cent of those calls within eight minutes. Now, almost all are reaching that target, saving hundreds of extra lives. That is despite speed humps. What is more, it has been achieved against a background of a huge increase of more than 40 per cent in the number of emergency calls during the past five years.