NHS Hospitals: Ministers of Religion (Hansard, 5 January 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)
My Lords, there are no regulations in relation to ministers of religion visiting NHS hospitals. New guidance, Meeting the Religious and Spiritual Needs of Patients and Staff, was issued to NHS trusts on 5 November 2003. That replaced out-of-date guidance and was prepared after wide consultation with different interests. The new document helps NHS trusts to deliver religious and spiritual care in a way that meets the diverse needs of their local populations.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am greatly obliged to the noble Lord for that reply. Is he aware that nonconformist ministers in particular are complaining that the new guidance, issued in November, prevents their access to local hospitals? Is he satisfied that that is appropriate?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I do not believe that anything in the new guidance would have that broadly based effect. It is of course for NHS trusts locally to settle the precise arrangements for providing chaplaincy services in their area, taking account of the new guidance and the Data Protection Act. If the noble Lord wishes to write to me to raise particular concerns, I will look into them and respond to him.

§ The Lord Bishop of Oxford
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that if hospitals are committed to whole-person care—care that includes not only the physical and emotional, but the spiritual dimension—as most of them are, it is very important that chaplains and other visiting ministers should be provided full access to the knowledge without which they cannot exercise that care?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is of course raising the issue of the Data Protection Act. Under that Act, although there are exemptions on the passage of information for medical reasons, the information in question may not be regarded as information for medical reasons. The Information Commissioner has pronounced on that, as the right reverend Prelate may he well aware.

§ Lord Janner of Braunstone
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the more serious the illnesses suffered by patients, the greater the need for spiritual and religious care and concern? In the circumstances, will Her Majesty's Government take steps to ensure that sufficient funds are available, so that people of all faiths—young and old, large and small—are looked after? At present, the funding is not there, and the faiths are not able to provide the spiritual and religious care that patients need.

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the matter is for the individual local trusts. The House will be well aware of the very large increases in funding for the NHS that this Government have provided. It will be for the trusts to use those resources as appropriate. Receiving spiritual and chaplaincy services is a matter on which individuals must give their individual consent. People will vary in their views on the matter.

§ Baroness Barker
My Lords, almost exactly a year ago, Ministers reported that the department was working with hospitals to develop good practice in admissions by asking people what their religion was, and asking for their consent for that to be communicated to a representative of their faith. What has happened in the year to implement that good practice throughout the NHS?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the new good practice guidance sets the framework within which that work is done. Under the guidance, a local trust can operate in the way suggested by the noble Baroness.

§ Baroness Carnegy of Lour
My Lords0, in the Minister's response to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, was he telling the House that the Data Protection Act comes between chaplains in hospitals and the facts that they need to minister to patients?

§ Lord Warner
No, my Lords. I was reminding the right reverend Prelate and the House of the Data Protection Act, and that it requires people to give their consent for the passage of information. The only exemption to that is in relation to information where medical reasons are involved. As I understand it, the decision of the Information Commissioner was that passing information without consent under the terms of medical reasons did not extend to information relating to religion.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a difficulty arises when prisoners are transferred from an establishment under the Prison Service to a special hospital, and that the ministers who have been in charge of their spiritual care during their stay in prison may not be aware, unless the patient informs them, that he or she has been transferred? Therefore, there is discontinuation of the spiritual care received by that person.

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I was not aware of that problem, but I shall look into it and write to the noble Lord.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Minister said that the new guidance published in the autumn was to replace the existing guidance, which had become out of date. How had it become out of date?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, the old guidance was issued more than 10 years ago. As the noble Lord will know, there has been quite a lot of movement in terms of the way in which the NHS is organised, including the Government's wish to shift responsibilities down to the local level. The new guidance was reframed in that way, and to take account of the greater range of faiths that may need to be involved in providing a chaplaincy and spiritual service in the NHS of today.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, how can the Data Protection Act apply if the wretched patient is incapable of giving consent?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, that is a matter best left to the local judgment of the NHS staff involved.