HL Deb 09 February 2004 vol 656 cc920-3

2.54 p.m.

Earl Attlee

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as president of the Heavy Transport Association.

The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to alleviate the problem of heavy goods vehicles travelling at 56 miles per hour in order to overtake other similar vehicles, thereby blocking two lanes of a motorway or dual carriageway.\

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, there is no evidence to suggest that this is a significant problem. Speed limits for heavy goods vehicles are set at a limit that allows free movement of traffic at sensible speeds without compromising road safety. The only areas where problems may arise are on gradients or very busy stretches of motorway. In those areas crawler and additional lanes are generally present to alleviate potential problems caused by slow vehicles.

Earl Attlee

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Will not the situation be far worse by 2008, as EU Directive 2002/85 will require all goods vehicles over three and a half tonnes to be fitted with speed limiters? What will be the aggregate extra cost of doing that, and how many deaths or serious injuries will be prevented?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the last two questions would involve extremely difficult calculations. Over the 10-year period in which speed limiters for heavy goods vehicles above those limits have been in force, the accident rate has dropped by one third. However, we recognise that other factors beyond limiters come into play. There is no doubt that this is an enhanced safety measure. It is being imposed throughout Europe.

Lord Berkeley

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that having lorries overtake at up to 56 miles per hour on a motorway slows cars also, and, in the absence of their having speed limiters, which I hope will be introduced one day, contributes to their keeping to the speed limit?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, speed limiters enforce compliance with speed limits by heavy goods vehicles. As my noble friend indicated, that can have consequential beneficial effects on the average speeds of motorcars. My noble friend will also recognise that, irrespective of the speed at which any one vehicle travels, if the differential between the two vehicles is limited, it still takes quite a long time for one vehicle to pass another.

Lord Bradshaw

My Lords, the noble Lord must travel on roads different from those that I use. Does he admit that many vehicles travel without their speed governors working and certainly exceed 56 miles per hour? I am often tailgated at 70 miles per hour by vehicles exceeding the speed limit. What steps are the enforcement authorities taking to check that limiters are working and fitted, and what action, if any, is taken to enforce lorry speed limits on motorways and other roads?

Lord Davits of Oldham

My Lords, I emphasise that speed limiters govern only powered speeds; therefore, vehicles can sometimes travel faster. They are not governors; they are limiters. Vehicles can travel faster in favourable conditions; for example, if the engine were disengaged it would go faster downhill, and there are all sorts of dangerous ploys. That is why the noble Lord is right in saying that it is possible, even with limiters, for such vehicles to break the law. We are concerned to ensure through our inspection staff that limiters are properly fitted to all vehicles. As the noble Lord will recognise, there are increased measures to ensure that speed limits are complied with.

Lord Swinfen

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the practice of overtaking on the inside is far more dangerous than having to wait behind a slow vehicle? What are the Government doing to alleviate the problem?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, overtaking on the inside is against the law. Significant stretches of our motorways are under surveillance. The driver of a vehicle who deliberately comes up behind another vehicle in a middle or outside lane and then swerves inside to overtake could easily be charged with careless driving.

Lord Elton

My Lords, will the noble Lord kindly write to me—he will not have the information at his fingertips—to say when it was made illegal to overtake on the inside? Many of us have been saying that it should be made illegal but were told that it would not be done.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the actual manoeuvre of one vehicle going past another in the inside lane because there might be a slow-down in the outside lane, and the inside lane is continuing to move, is not illegal. Deliberately setting out to pass a vehicle by moving from one lane to another to go inside it and to go past leaves open the possibility that such a manoeuvre appears to be careless driving, and it could be subject to such a charge.

The Earl of Erroll

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if vehicles travel within about 10 per cent of each other's speed, the roads are much safer? Therefore, by slowing lorries down, there are higher closing rates, which make roads less safe. It would be far safer to have lorries travelling at the same speed as the normal traffic on those roads.

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, everyone in the House is aware of the crucial statistic, which is the braking distance of a lorry at a speed comparable to a car—it is many times greater. That is why heavy goods vehicles need restrictions. They both take much longer to brake from the same speed, and they have far more devastating effects when they collide with others.

Baroness Byford

My Lords, do the Government record centrally the number of prosecutions that take place of those lorry drivers who exceed the speed limit on motorways; and if not, why not?

Lord Davies of Oldham

My Lords, the issue of breaking speed limits is coming under increasing scrutiny, but the noble Baroness will recognise that the main priority is the overall limit of speed on a motorway, which is scrutinised with great care. As I indicated in my earlier answer, limiters on vehicles are inspected, and they have the effect of ensuring that power cannot be applied beyond 56 miles per hour for heavy goods vehicles.