Illegal Meat Imports (Hansard, 4 February 2004)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord Warner)
My Lords, according to the Food Standards Agency, the largest amount of illegal meat seized in the United Kingdom at any one time in 2003 was 33 tonnes, seized in June from premises in Bow, east London, by enforcement officers from the London Borough of Tower Hamlets. The case is currently under investigation and prosecutions have yet to be initiated.

§ Lord Rotherwick
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. I am very disappointed to hear about the number of prosecutions pending. Is he aware of the bushmeat conference in December where African Ministers stated that illegal meat is being smuggled into this country partly because people are not frightened of being convicted if caught in the UK? Bearing in mind that the market value of bushmeat is currently £36 per pound, the typical suitcase coming into UK ports and airports could contain far in excess of £1,000 of bushmeat, if not much more. The situation is not dissimilar to that of illegal, black market drug imports. What is the real reason why there have been no convictions? Is it that Defra lacks funds; or is it that, as the noble Lord, Lord Haskins, said, Defra is a dog's dinner of the highest order?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, there were several threads in that essay-cum-question. On one of them, I can tell the noble Lord that there were no outbreaks of human disease in the UK traced to the illegal importation of bushmeat. The Food Standards Agency has created an imported food division to take forward the Government's Step Change initiative which aims to deliver significant improvements in the co-ordination and delivery of local authority inspection of imported food at ports and inland.
I did not say that there have been no prosecutions; I said that a prosecution had not been initiated in the particular case. The noble Lord might like to know that it took two years to gather and analyse the information in Operation Aberdeen, in 2001, which 672 concerned a large-scale meat fraud. However, that operation secured major convictions of those prosecuted in the case.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord appreciates that many of us are worried not about human disease but about animal disease being brought in by these illegal meat imports. Is the Food Standards Agency working closely with Defra in these matters? Are Defra scientists able to advise the Food Standards Agency about the dangers of importing such meat?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I am sure that my noble colleagues and other Ministers in Defra will be glad to look into the question raised by the noble Countess and respond to her.

§ Lord Livsey of Talgarth
My Lords, can the Minister indicate how many illegal meat seizures have taken place in regional airports and ports and how many prosecutions have taken place as a result? I acknowledge that there are notices in these places now, but they are pretty sparse. Is there any information on this?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, it is not the practice of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise to reveal the details of seizures, and no information on local authority enforcement action is held centrally.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords, I find that answer very unsatisfactory. Is the Minister not concerned not only about the risk to human health, which has been mentioned, but about the risk of animal diseases? If prosecutions are not brought, the import of such meat will continue. I am quite concerned about the Minister's response. I do not think that he appreciates the huge implications of the problem, including increased zoonosis. His department seems not to be taking an interest. I seek greater clarification.

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I do not think that the noble Baroness listened to my earlier answers. I did not say that there have been no prosecutions. I simply said that a prosecution had not yet been initiated in the case that was the subject of the noble Lord's Question. I also gave the example of the case in 2001 where there was a prosecution regarding 4,450 tonnes of illegal meat and a fraud. In answering the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, I also said that it is not the practice of Customs and Excise to reveal the amounts seized. I did not say that it had not brought any prosecutions.

§ Baroness Byford
My Lords—

§ Lord Kilclooney
My Lords, further to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, will the Minister confirm that the figures that he gave include seizures at airports in Northern Ireland?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, my answers related to information about England.

§ Lord Swinfen
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the most recent outbreak of foot and mouth disease was caused by illegally imported meat?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, that is a matter for my colleagues in Defra, but I will look into it—

Noble Lords
Oh!

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, may I be allowed to finish my answer? I will look into that and reply to the noble Lord.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, will the Minister tell those of us who do not know exactly what bushmeat is?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I am not altogether sure that noble Lords will thank the noble Baroness for that question, as bushmeat may include the meat of squirrels, monkeys, bats, rats and other mammals.

§ Lord Soulsby of Swaffham Prior
My Lords, will the Minister bring us up to date on the movement in the European Union or the European Parliament to ban the importation of bushmeat into the European Union? I understand that there has been a major move among environmentalists to do that, mainly due to denuding Africa of its wild game rather than the health issues.

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I am not aware that specific proposals have emanated from the European Union on the issue, although I know that much debate is going on about it in which the Food Standards Agency is involved. I do not think that any specific proposals have been forthcoming.

§ Lord Rotherwick
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that, since April 2003, there has been a threefold increase in illegal meats? The figure may be somewhere in excess of 7,000 tonnes. Is that correct?

§ Lord Warner
My Lords, I do not have that specific number in my head. As I said earlier, we do not collect information centrally on local authority seizures of illegal meat, so I am not sure from where the noble Lord obtains his figures. He seems to have information that is not available to Her Majesty's Government.